As this series goes on, the less I wish for them to be the "happily ever after". It's good in all sense and I enjoy seeing their how relationship develops, but they really feel like the kind of relationship that you learn and grow from, maybe cherish in a fond memory in the future, a bittersweet lesson on how people work, etc etc.

If the story ends with them breaking up in a good note it'll be one of the best endings, I think.

So what was even the point of Ch. 33? Nothing in Kurokawa's internal monologue was new to the story. 18 pages of useless exposition. You could literally skip this chapter and not have missed anything related to the plot. That's just plain bad writing.

At this point, I'd rather the author go back to Dear My Teacher and finish that one, rather than continue this trainwreck.

So what was even the point of Ch. 33? Nothing in Kurokawa's internal monologue was new to the story. 18 pages of useless exposition. You could literally skip this chapter and not have missed anything related to the plot. That's just plain bad writing.

At this point, I'd rather the author go back to Dear My Teacher and finish that one, rather than continue this trainwreck.

I’ve been mostly okay with this one so far—rather more dithering than I’d prefer, but then we look at the title—but this chapter really felt like it was just replaying canned footage.

And none of it holds a candle to Dear My Teacher.

last edited at Apr 5, 2021 7:40AM

I was worried that this was heading in a cliche drag-out-the-confession-aaaaagnst direction, but after this chapter, it seems like it might actually be doing something different. But they're probably going to drag things out still to build the relationship up more.

It seems like the author didn't manage to fit the ending within the previous volume, so now they have to throw in some filler chapters to round it up. I can't recall how many chapters/volume are there in it, but I think this is the first half of vol 6 or vol 7 and it really doesn't feel like there is that much story left to tell.

Ugh

Hero worship isn't healthy, gal.

It seems like the author didn't manage to fit the ending within the previous volume,

Out of curiosity, what gave you the impression that the intention was to wrap it up within the last volume?

And then Fujishiro came and lifted you to her place already in this life, even if you still have trouble accepting this...

It seems like the author didn't manage to fit the ending within the previous volume,

Out of curiosity, what gave you the impression that the intention was to wrap it up within the last volume?

This chapter seems to point to the author wanting to fill space. It doesn't add anything to the story and is just spinning its wheels. That + the high probability that the story is reaching its conclusion. It's not really about them intending to wrap it up in the last volume, as much as not being able to cleanly fit it in in this one (or the next one).

Either this or the author is really underestimating the reader and feels like there is a need to rephrase explicitly everything that is going on with Kurokawa.

Direct translation is for the birds. In a space where we have no editors to tell us not to get too creative, no investors wanting safe and proven production methods to get returns, and no need to worry that our readers won't be coming back (and if they don't, so what?), we continue to flatten character voices, blunt tone, produce unnatural dialogue, and remove characterization in service to finding the technically best way to do things. We do not seek to recreate the original reading experience, which is integral in translating the art on the whole. The reason some manga companies have followed suit lately is because this style doesn't take risks and is something they can get from the lowest paid contractors in an industry of underpaid translators. Translations here will vary in exactly where they fall, but scanlation always seems to trend toward awkward, dull, and flat dialogue and a preference for technical accuracy or Rube Goldberg constructions to impart understanding at the expense vibrant, creative, and colorful storytelling reminiscent of the original. But well the readers are generally Japan hobbyists over avid fiction consumers, so no harm no foul.

Still, Stan's translations are a rarity and a blessing in our circles. We squander our creative freedom, and that's my TED Talk.

Hero worship isn't healthy, gal.

Kurokawa has one of those outlooks where the unhealthy aspects rather substantially outnumber the healthy ones.

I think there's a difference between translating something directly and translating accurately. For example, Japanese is full of indirect references to things and changing those to direct references is entirely okay — this translation does it and I have no issue. My problem comes from changing the meaning of something, or the impression it gives, due to misinterpretation of the original text.

"Do you want to come to Ikebukuro today?" / "Sure!" has a different meaning than "You're coming with us to Ikebukuro, right?" / "Of course!". One is an invitation that could be extended to anyone, while the other reflects an understanding that their friendship is such that she's expected to say yes. This is one such example of the type of error that I take issue with, from the first page of this chapter. For another example, "Fujishiro Nanaki was so famous," / "Even people from other classes knew about her right from her first year" is different from "Even before we shared a class," / "I knew about Fujishiro Nanaki since our first year". Here, I've rearranged the content of the two bubbles to accurately reflect the meaning, but not the structure of the original script. Directly translated, it would be "Fujishiro Nanaki's existence," / "(even) When we didn't share a class, I still realized it from our first year". This difference goes without explanation.

I still think it would be useless to outline every one I see, but this should more accurately convey my issue.

EDIT: it looks like some of these changes have now been integrated into the script. Kudos to the uploader.

last edited at Apr 5, 2021 5:11PM

If she knew before they shared a class, then people from other classes must have realized it.
QED
Addendum: like, at least a solid 80 to 90% of lines fail to have the same subtext / nuance if you translate the literal meaning beat for beat; especially in manga, where flow is king. While you can disagree with stans choices, I wouldn't call it an outright error.

last edited at Apr 5, 2021 11:12AM

Addendum: like, at least a solid 80 to 90% of lines fail to have the same subtext / nuance if you translate the literal meaning beat for beat; especially in manga, where flow is king. While you can disagree with stans choices, I wouldn't call it an outright error.

Again, I'm not talking about directly translating the literal meaning. Even in my examples, I didn't directly translate the literal meaning. I don't want anyone to directly translate the literal meaning, even if it means restructuring 100% of the script (which it probably should). I want a translation such that a person reading in Japanese and a person reading in English both come away with the same information. This can be done without making it stilted or changing lines wholesale.

In the interest of not getting banned or some other consequence I assume comes from being overly disruptive, I'm gonna stop my end of the discussion here. You can keep misinterpreting my words all you want, since that sort of thing seems to be a pastime of yours.

last edited at Apr 5, 2021 11:26AM

Such a classic move, a flashback chapter after a big cliffhanger.
Well, I can't say I didn't like it at all, because it gives us a new perspective about how Kurokawa feels and thinks. I just think this chapter was too short and I expected to see that scene where she bumped into Fujishiro and her boyfriend, and shows us how she felt about that encounter.

Altair posted:

Direct translation is for the birds. In a space where we have no editors to tell us not to get too creative, no investors wanting safe and proven production methods to get returns, and no need to worry that our readers won't be coming back (and if they don't, so what?), we continue to flatten character voices, blunt tone, produce unnatural dialogue, and remove characterization in service to finding the technically best way to do things. We do not seek to recreate the original reading experience, which is integral in translating the art on the whole.

Speak for yourself. I'm always trying to convey the same meaning and nuance the original had. And from stuff I read over the years, I'd say the exact opposite. Adding your own creative voice, trying to give characters personality and in general not being afraid of changing/localizing things is the staple of fan scanlations. Sure not every group is high quality and some definitely have mistranslations, but overall there's plenty of them that do try to keep high standards. In fact whenever something gets picked by official publisher the first thing people fear after w/e quality of translation will be good, is exactly that their translation is going to be much less creative and good to read than scans.

I mean, creativity isn't just black and white either, though. There can be excellent characterizations, and there can be disaster's like what Viz did to Nettaigyo...

So what was even the point of Ch. 33? Nothing in Kurokawa's internal monologue was new to the story. 18 pages of useless exposition. You could literally skip this chapter and not have missed anything related to the plot. That's just plain bad writing.

At this point, I'd rather the author go back to Dear My Teacher and finish that one, rather than continue this trainwreck.

I’ve been mostly okay with this one so far—rather more dithering than I’d prefer, but then we look at the title—but this chapter really felt like it was just replaying canned footage.

I'm almost wondering if this isn't the author attempting to start at the beginning, but following Kurokawa's perception of things. I suppose we'll know more when the next chapter drops, but either way it does feel like kind of a strange inclusion.

I mean, creativity isn't just black and white either, though. There can be excellent characterizations, and there can be disaster's like what Viz did to Nettaigyo...

Wait, what did Viz do? I'm unfortunately out of the loop, but I'm prepared to fetch my pitchfork if need be.

So what was even the point of Ch. 33? Nothing in Kurokawa's internal monologue was new to the story. 18 pages of useless exposition. You could literally skip this chapter and not have missed anything related to the plot. That's just plain bad writing.

At this point, I'd rather the author go back to Dear My Teacher and finish that one, rather than continue this trainwreck.

I’ve been mostly okay with this one so far—rather more dithering than I’d prefer, but then we look at the title—but this chapter really felt like it was just replaying canned footage.

I'm almost wondering if this isn't the author attempting to start at the beginning, but following Kurokawa's perception of things. I suppose we'll know more when the next chapter drops, but either way it does feel like kind of a strange inclusion.

That would be an interesting narrative strategy, and would go some ways toward justifying this particular repetition. But of course we did get some of Kurokawa's perspective initially anyway--that's how we know that she thought this stuff already.

Such a classic move, a flashback chapter after a big cliffhanger.
Well, I can't say I didn't like it at all, because it gives us a new perspective about how Kurokawa feels and thinks. I just think this chapter was too short and I expected to see that scene where she bumped into Fujishiro and her boyfriend, and shows us how she felt about that encounter.

I was expecting the same, but we already got a semi-explanation of how she actually felt that day in the last chapter. I think we would get at least another flashback chapter of her actual thoughts on her whole friendship with Nanaki and would get to see her actual thoughts during that moment before we get to see the climax of Nanaki's confession. At least thats what i'm hoping for.

I mean, creativity isn't just black and white either, though. There can be excellent characterizations, and there can be disaster's like what Viz did to Nettaigyo...

Wait, what did Viz do? I'm unfortunately out of the loop, but I'm prepared to fetch my pitchfork if need be.

I honestly haven't even managed to bring myself to read more after the first volume. The worst case of localization I've seen in a while, with the quiet Japanese loner Koyuki sounding like the stereotypical popular American cheerleader, to the point that I can physically hear the bubblegum.

I mean, creativity isn't just black and white either, though. There can be excellent characterizations, and there can be disaster's like what Viz did to Nettaigyo...

Wait, what did Viz do? I'm unfortunately out of the loop, but I'm prepared to fetch my pitchfork if need be.

I honestly haven't even managed to bring myself to read more after the first volume. The worst case of localization I've seen in a while, with the quiet Japanese loner Koyuki sounding like the stereotypical popular American cheerleader, to the point that I can physically hear the bubblegum.

Well that's just unfortunate. It's a good thing I've been holding off on buying the English print volumes then. Thanks for the info!

Such a classic move, a flashback chapter after a big cliffhanger.
Well, I can't say I didn't like it at all, because it gives us a new perspective about how Kurokawa feels and thinks. I just think this chapter was too short and I expected to see that scene where she bumped into Fujishiro and her boyfriend, and shows us how she felt about that encounter.

I was expecting the same, but we already got a semi-explanation of how she actually felt that day in the last chapter. I think we would get at least another flashback chapter of her actual thoughts on her whole friendship with Nanaki and would get to see her actual thoughts during that moment before we get to see the climax of Nanaki's confession. At least thats what i'm hoping for.

Ohh that would be interesting to read...Even though we already know why Kurokawa had such a rejection to Nanaki's advances, throughout the story we are only introduced to her insecure side. We haven't seen her side that likes Fujishiro, and this chapter showed a snippet of it. This is why I don't consider it a filler.
Another (very specific example) I'd like to see was that scene during their school trip where Kurokawa got really close to Nanaki's face to demonstrate how far she can see without her glasses. And even though Nanaki was really flustered/upset, Kurokawa seemed very nonchalant about it. So it would be interesting to see if Kurokawa got flustered too and hid it.

last edited at Apr 5, 2021 3:43PM