Yes, but they did publicly make a post about their publisher interfering and their desire to defy the publisher, which is not what somebody being censored by the government would do. On top of this, the artists posting actual pornography before the crackdown deleted their posts -- if the author was afoul of the government for this non-pornographic material, you'd expect them to take their posts down, not make it slightly less yuri.

Taking on a publisher with a bad reputation definitely isn't the same as taking on a dictatorial government. And making the work 'less yuri' could reflect an attachment to the work and a desire to keep producing it, even in a diluted form, rather than outright deleting something they've worked for years to create. People don't operate on a binary between bootlicking and revolution- most strive to toe the line and say as much as they can get away with. It depends on whether you're willing to accept the 'public' version in a nation riddled by censorship or read between the lines. The latter approach doesn't guarantee that you'll be right, but it also doesn't make you a delusional conspiracy theorist.

To be honest, this allegation has absolutely zero credibility. It relies on your base instinct to automatically assume "China bad" whenever anybody writes anything about China, and otherwise there is no reason to believe that it is true.

It's not 'China bad' so much as 'Chinese government bad', which is hardly a flawed assumption to make. I'm not starting a debate about this because it'll inevitably spiral out of control and get shut down, but you really should try to think more about the circumstances in which these works are published and all the factors at play.

Taking on a publisher with a bad reputation definitely isn't the same as taking on a dictatorial government.

The point was that there was already an explanation for censorship that didn't involve the government. Are you suggesting that both the government and publisher tried to censor the author, and that they publicly announced defying the publisher but not the government? It doesn't make any sense.

It depends on whether you're willing to accept the 'public' version in a nation riddled by censorship or read between the lines. The latter approach doesn't guarantee that you'll be right, but it also doesn't make you a delusional conspiracy theorist.

It also doesn't make it a fact, and it shouldn't be stated like one. If you want to say "I will always come up with a reason to believe the Chinese government is bad, even over something as trivial as a webcomic not having exactly enough yuri for me", feel free, but that doesn't make it an objective truth.

Indeed, the idea of the Chinese government censoring this particular webcomic is fanfiction. You've presented literally no evidence of it being the case, simply stated that the absence of evidence doesn't matter because you're prepared to default to blaming the Chinese government no matter what. This unreasonable position of guilty until proven innocent can't be reasoned with because your stance was not decided by evidence and therefore cannot be deterred by evidence. Somebody made the assertion and now it's simply the truth in your eyes because of your preconceived bias, and exactly these kinds of misinformed assertions are very likely what caused your preconceived bias to come into fruition in the first place, creating a vicious cycle of misinformation causing people to hate and spread misinformation about China.

last edited at Jan 8, 2021 4:00AM by

^ I could link multiple articles about how the Chinese government has in fact banned and censored queer content, but you'd probably find some way to dismiss that as 'fanfiction' too, because the people intelligent enough to do their research and grasp context will do so on their own, and those that cannot will strive to win arguments on discussion forums based on pedantic arguments that take laughably simple views of the the world. I suppose it's easier to live life taking everything at face value, so I'm not about to complicate yours any further. Have a nice day.

last edited at Jan 8, 2021 4:15AM

I suppose it's easier to live life taking everything at face value, so I'm not about to complicate yours any further. Have a nice day.

This is a deliciously ironic insult, considering the face value of anything posted on English forums or in English media is always, without fail, "China bad".

last edited at Jan 8, 2021 4:21AM by

I suppose it's easier to live life taking everything at face value, so I'm not about to complicate yours any further. Have a nice day.

This is a deliciously ironic insult, considering the face value of anything posted on English forums or in English media is always, without fail, "China bad".

You were already corrected that the claim was "China government bad". Are you claiming that China is the Chinese government?

You were already corrected that the claim was "China government bad". Are you claiming that China is the Chinese government?

I've heard "not China, the Chinese government!!" a hundred times, and give it no credence because once in the misinformation loop people are just as happy to spread misinformation about Chinese people in general. For example, if you were to take English media at face value, China is a nation full of morally degenerate people who will intentionally kill pedestrians after accidentally hitting them with their automobile.

For example, if you were to take English media at face value, China is a nation full of morally degenerate people who will intentionally kill pedestrians after accidentally hitting them with their automobile.

I've never heard of that once in my life. You seem to like to make very sweeping generalizations and present them as fact. This isn't a good look.

last edited at Jan 8, 2021 1:54PM

I've never heard of that once in my life. You seem to like to make very sweeping generalizations and present them as fact. This isn't a good look.

Good for you. I've seen this lie plastered all over the internet.

Point taken. However, the Snopes page for it says "unproven" (leaning heavily towards false) and it took approximately 10 seconds to get that information, so why would anyone except a moron already inclined to hate the Chinese believe some internet article at face value? Any rational person knows not to just believe something that sensationalist media claim. There's sites dedicated to spreading the lie that my country's election was illegitimate, but nobody except brain-dead dipshits believes a word of it. Try not to give internet "news sites" too much credit for what people actually think.

Any rational person knows not to just believe something that sensationalist media claim. Try not to give internet "news sites" too much credit for what people actually think.

I don't directly consume English media. My discovery of the lies propagated about China in Western media come from real people on English-speaking forums, and not typically the far-right conspiracy theorist types but simply people who don't question what they read about "China bad" because they already hate China -- exactly like the misinformation that started this conversation here.

You discovered that the article was a fabrication in ten seconds because you were already told that it was a lie and went looking for more information, but for the vast majority of people who read it, the thought that it could be misinformation doesn't even cross their mind, because they are primed to believe by default that China is the enemy. This is not because they are irrational or moronic, but because they have been inundated with propaganda for their entire life and simply don't know better, having never been exposed to the truth.

More generally, I think you grossly overestimate the media savviness of the general population. You and I might do further research on the subject of an article after reading it, but that is not the norm, which is why far-right propaganda has been so overwhelmingly successful to the point of instigating an attempted insurrection in the US based on nothing but flagrant falsehoods. You say "nobody but brain-dead dipshits" believe it, and yet that encapsulates tens of millions of people who believe the election was stolen from Trump.

last edited at Jan 8, 2021 3:38PM by

Yes, there are tens of millions of brain-dead dipshits in the US. With our freedom of speech and expression that we hold dear, there isn't a lot that rational people can do to fix them unless they turn violent. Hopefully some of the latest developments here in the US will allow some sweeping consequences that can address many of them at once. I'd like to make one correction: I would have looked up the subject on Snopes regardless of whether or not someone told me it was false, because the very subject just seems so ridiculous.

A lot of this could be fixed if "news sites" would face real consequences for spreading false information. As long as they make money by misleading and blatantly lying to people, they'll continue. Another symptom of the failure of capitalism. But this is moving off the subject of the thread, so unless there's any actual evidence, I'll accept the word of the author in question that it was simply a disagreement with the publisher.

Can we stay on topic, there is the Café if you want that kind of discussion.

Can we stay on topic, there is the Café if you want that kind of discussion.

I believe I addressed that very subject in the final sentence of the comment right above yours.

Didn't see

CUTE GIRLS FALLING IN LOVE ONLY

Lilliwyt posted:

Can we stay on topic, there is the Café if you want that kind of discussion.

Yeah, let's stop arguing about how shitty the Chinese government is. Take it to the Dynasty cafe thread if you want to continue.

Any further posts about China, Their Story, or any other topic irrelevant to this manga's thread will be removed. Any posts after Alice Cheshire's have been removed.

I think Kirin said it best quite a few posts ago

I'm not starting a debate about this because it'll inevitably spiral out of control and get shut down

I'm not sure why the discussion continued afterwards.

Somebody made a baseless accusation in the context of China and yuri manga, which is relatively on-topic

This is on topic "to the site," but hardly to this manga. The average reader of this particular forum is likely to glaze over these posts, given their apparent lack of relevance in this thread. Worse, they're especially unlikely to post any new or interesting comment when seeing walls of text about politics. Debates of this nature are better kept in the Cafe, the Their Story thread, or in a new thread meant for the sake of discussing these points.

It's a bit unfair to say that people can make false claims about a country in random discussion threads but that they're not allowed to be rebutted

This is not what happened. You were allowed to engage freely with three separate individuals on your points of contention. Your earlier posts were left fully intact, for all to see. I'm quite certain that in this instance, every side was given a "fair" hearing for their views.

You're welcome to get in touch if you wish to discuss any of this further.

last edited at Jan 9, 2021 10:28AM

Ahh yes, glorious age gap with milf uwu

I really hope Takuya eventually figures things out and goes full wingman for Yuka, despite how incredibly awkward it would be for him, but he seems pretty open minded

Dude's going to be at the wedding going, "Hmm, they sure do get along well. Yup."

I feel real bad for Takuya, the poor idiot.

Lmao takuya says “yet” like that isn’t what mc should be saying

Hey, is this a problem with my brother's old phone, or is this chapter really just 4 pages long?

Hey, is this a problem with my brother's old phone, or is this chapter really just 4 pages long?

It is 4 pages, like most of them.

Hey, is this a problem with my brother's old phone, or is this chapter really just 4 pages long?

It is 4 pages, like most of them.

Well, thanks.