Arguably to REALLY localize something you'd convert mentions of okonomiyaki and other street food to "hot dogs". Which I would consider a step or three too far.

Then there's the whole honorifics thing. At some point the "native Japanese experience" cannot be translated into modern American English because that experience doesn't exist. So I really like translations that keep the honorifics and if necessary include a guide to what they mean.

If by "really" you mean "to the extreme", then indeed, removing any traces of foreign cultures would be part of it. There are few contexts where such radical departures are appreciated, however. Realistically, localization is always the attempt to find the right balance. Making jelly-filled doughnuts out of onigiri wouldn't really fly anymore, and rice balls probably wouldn't be as foreign anymore as they were in the '90s. The best intentions and stuff...

For radical departures I can't really think of any appropriate contexts outside of total conversions, re-adapatations of old stories or productions for theater and opera, which is different from localization/translation, ofc.
I've seen some wild things there, including Monostatos in Mozart's Magic Flute (who is referred to as a "black" indentured slave-driver) in black leather biker getup and the three ladies dressed up in sparkly spandex with illuminated elements on their breasts and crotch. That was a really fun version. Another famous example for a well-executed and well-received adaptation is Akira Kurosawa's Ran, which is basically a retelling of Shakespeare's King Lear in Sengoku-era Japan. It's kind of relevant what gets changed as well: Theater and Opera usually barely alter the text, but radically changes the context and delivery, while adapting movies often change quite a lot, but keep the ideas behind characters and plot intact (or at least try to do so, only to fail miserably).

Honorifics are a tough one. I used to think we should just do away with them in localization, but at least for Manga I'm kinda on the fence right now. They're not commonly part of English anime dubs, with notable exceptions that I've yet to watch, and I think they would be more disruptive than immersive here. Watching some of those exceptions might change my mind, at least partly.
Also your mention of a guide really isn't a bad suggestion. It's not uncommon for immersive fiction and fantasy novels to include glossaries and/or introductory pages that explain terms specific to the universe (e.g The Black Jewels trilogy by Anne Bishop). Those can also be used to provide better immersion in a different culture, as I've seen in the German version of Dimitry Glukhovsky's Metro 2033. That one had a rather expansive glossary at the end, explaining terms a general audience (what I mean with naive readers) would likely not be familiar with.

Indeed. The second approach is the traditional one in fan-translating, and originated as a reaction to the gross excesses of rewriting that happened in manga released by American publishers. SAD was at first one of the TL-teams who worked that way, sticking to the original texts almost word by word, but recently they have started taking some liberties to make the dialogues flow better and the reading experience more enjoyable. I see it as a proof of maturity... and the results so far (WGO, I Wouldn't Mind Being Loved) have certainly been impressive. In the end, imho, it all boils down to this: domestication/localisation in translation is something better left to the loving fans who really care about the original; they are the ones who can and will do it right. (Again, this is imho, and ymmv, m'kay?)

Haha, I remember when American publishers first started releasing ecchi manga in English.

In those olden times, they didn't translate the dialogue: they did a complete rewriting from scratch. Like, they took the pages with the Japanese text cleaned off, they got someone to provide them with an outline of the plot, and then they wrote something completely new, trying to make it as quirky and zany as possible.

I remember one issue (in the ST series, if I'm not mistaken) where a guy went to a shrine and prayed that his love life would become less complicated.

You see, he was banging a lot of nymphos, but he was tired of it: he wanted to have a normal romance with just one girl!

So, after praying, he got an omikuji at the fortune lottery, to find if his wish would come true. When he checked the strip of paper, there was (of course) the kanji for Big Bad Luck... meaning that his wish would not come true!

But, in the American version, the strip of paper had this written on it in big characters:

---- DEFEAT ---- DISASTER ----

--------DESPAIR----DOOM--------

--------------------- Sorry, kid! -------------------

This is what I call going too far with the localisation: sacrificing everything specific to the original for the sake of a joke. This is what fan translators rose up against when scanlation became a boom. But SAD's work has nothing to do with this sort of exaggeration; it's unfair to blast their work when it's a completely different can of cookies.

To be fair, if the source is terrible, starting from scratch and basically rewriting everything can yield better results, although I've only seen this work out properly if the target is supposed to be a comedy and not supposed to be representative of the source anymore. Think of the many, many hilarious abridged versions, or the English dub of Ghost Stories. Because of how terrible the source needs to be and how lucid the localization staff must be to not only acknowledge that fact, but also make the call that it's not worth it, it's no wonder that I can't think of more examples. (*when it comes to official translations - abridged versions have the luxury that it's not their job to provide a "true to source" version from the start.)

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 4:14PM

Zormau posted:

or the English dub of Ghost Stories.

Just wanted to point out that GS wasn't actually bad or even unpopular in Japan. That's a myth. It's simply that Japanese publisher didn't think it'll be popular in west so they give translation team pretty much a free hand. There's a argument to be made that they were right, but it's a bit more complicated than "the sauce sux'd". Also for how liberally translation it was they were given rules. They had to keep names of characters and ghosts the same as well the ways the ghosts were defeated. Everything else was fair game though. So you could argue even Japanese still wanted to maintain some semblance of original plot. They just didn't expect Americans to go abridge on it (they did at least tried being serious at first, but with each new episodes voice actors were having more and more fun).

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 4:40PM

To be fair, if the source is terrible, starting from scratch and basically rewriting everything can yield better results, although I've only seen this work out properly if the target is supposed to be a comedy and not supposed to be representative of the source anymore.

You have a point. I've read myself a lot of erotic manga magazines both shounen and seinen (that is, intended for a male readership) when they first came out in English in the nineties; and, much later, I got the chance to read the original Japanese books -- or, in some cases, accurate translations by a conscientious scanlator. I have to say that those old rewritten versions by Eros Comix or Antarctic Press were often much funnier.

@Nevri
More context! Thanks for setting that straight. Now that you mention it, I think I vaguely remember hearing that side of the story before, it apparently didn't stick.

Zormau posted:

@Nevri
More context! Thanks for setting that straight. Now that you mention it, I think I vaguely remember hearing that side of the story before, it apparently didn't stick.

You're welcome! Here my sauce in case you want to learn more.

So, after praying, he got an omikuji at the fortune lottery, to find if his wish would come true. When he checked the strip of paper, there was (of course) the kanji for Big Bad Luck... meaning that his wish would not come true!

But, in the American version, the strip of paper had this written on it in big characters:

---- DEFEAT ---- DISASTER ----

--------DESPAIR----DOOM--------

--------------------- Sorry, kid! -------------------

Am I a person of bad taste if I think this is really amusing?

they are roommates btw

last edited at Nov 9, 2020 6:08AM

Gladly, but I have a stupid question before that: What does JK stand for in this case?

Stand for Joshikausei or Highschool girl in english

Thanks.

There are generally three acronyms that stand for girls in different school groups in Japanese otaku subculture. JS is 'joshi shougakusei' or elementary school girl, JC is 'joshi chuugakusei,' middle school girl, and JK - 'joshikousei' or high school girl.

But, in the American version, the strip of paper had this written on it in big characters:

---- DEFEAT ---- DISASTER ----

--------DESPAIR----DOOM--------

--------------------- Sorry, kid! -------------------

Am I a person of bad taste if I think this is really amusing?

Yes! You are! (⌒.－)＝★

Am I a person of bad taste if I think this is really amusing?

Yes! You are! (⌒.－)＝★

Exactly. No fun allowed. Especially in Ecchi.

/s

Wow the comment section sounds... crazy and confusing... for a light series like this.. I'm personally really enjoy this.. I do agree that the miyoshi senpai part kind of unnecessary.. feels out of place somehow.. but looking at previous chapter, these two really need some push.. or they will just stay as kissing friends.. so I don't mind that much with the miyoshi part

Anyway.. I do hope they got together and the series doesn't end so soon.. I mean it would be nice to see some daily girlfriends fluff. and we don't get the going-all-the-way part yet

Wow the comment section sounds... crazy and confusing... for a light series like this..

We've done it, we finally found the phrase that sums up this forum as a whole.

god damn fINALLY

I am in love with this manga!! I really wish chapter 11 will come out soon I'm invested in this manga like a lot!!! I really fucking love it!

@White Rose That's hilarious, would have loved to see some of those old "translations".

So Ichika is in the tea ceremony club ey, that explains a lot :D That teacher totally figured them out, but being the advisor for that club she has probably seen way worse haha. The Ooshimas* desire for making cute JK material sure seems imperishable.

Edit:
Wow that senpai character is close to being real annoying, she can figure everything out because she "read the script" so to speak, that's the worst kind of character, but as long as this stupidity doesn't continue then it's not all lost yet. I can at least give some slight leniency with this character as it was in the very least unlikely that no one had caught them up to this point. What could rescue this character is if the senpai was given some motivation for wanting to hook them up, in worst case scenrio it could sour the whole series much like a certain other series I can't remember the name of right now.

last edited at Nov 27, 2020 7:43PM

I hope the chapter 11 update faster!!!KYAAA!! IT'S FEELS ME EXCITED!!!

Is there any news about chapter 11?

Is it too much to ask to have this manga create a crossover with Sekai de Ichiban Oppai ga Suki! ???

It will be a riot!!!!

I enjoyed this too! Ichika and Shinee are so very cute and adorable! Maybe they will return one day. Thank you
Sweet Pea!

Im glad this series doesnt has a drama till now, and I hope it will keep it that way,,, the series has been fun and enjoyable so far,, I dont want it ruined by unnecessary drama

Ahhh I felt healed when they were kissing and stuff~
Also I really hope this will continue, even if it's obvious, I wanna see what'll really happen!!

And to put an end to this "kiss-friend" relationship it's just hurtful
Go out already! ( ≧Д≦)

If I understand the author's fanbox correctly, Ch.11 should start going on sale around mid-March, so we will be finally able to get off that cliff soon.

last edited at Feb 22, 2021 6:17PM