I would refer you to the Hana ni Arashi folder, where discussions of “who’s right/who’s wrong/who should apologize” can take up page after page in reference to one of the airiest (and most delightful) fluffballs going.

Hana Ni Arashi is a Romantic Comedy so of course there will be discussions regarding characters. I should clarify that I meant genres containing Romance and or Drama will ultimately suffer from the scalpel of readers. But if it's just a comedy by it self then people tend to just release a chuckle and move on with their lives.

But you’re right that it’s when drama timidly rears its head that such eruptions tend to happen.

With this angst-fest, well, . . .

I hope for Aya and Sei but that's probably not going to happen.... I wouldn't be surprised if Aya ends up alone.

This bizarre response is a prime example of the kind of projection that habitually plagues the "this character is a bad person"-centric discussions and turns them into personalized "more moralistic than thou" pissing contests.

The terms "weird" and "offensive" are imported into this conversation by you and have nothing to do with what I was talking about. At most, I implied that the single-minded focus on "correct behavior by imaginary persons" to the exclusion of everything else is reductive and often ends up with the discussion far removed from the story that's actually being told.

The way you worded it was as if someone shouldn't pass judgement of a character's behavior/morals. Not specifically about the people who only focus on this type of analysis.

A lot of the time judging a character's actions is very tightly connected with a great part of the story itself.
In here it would be completely different if the characters weren't the same regarding their morals and character. There are some stories that are heavily character driven. So you're gonna have people focusing even more in the characters' morals.
For example, this would be a completely different story if Sei was just a hurt woman who found love that helped her overcome a heartbreak without having that extra and important layer of being manipulative and shady.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 5:13PM

Hana Ni Arashi is a Romantic Comedy so of course there will be discussions regarding characters. I should clarify that I meant genres containing Romance and or Drama will ultimately suffer from the scalpel of readers. But if it's just a comedy by it self then people tend to just release a chuckle and move on with their lives.

Wow, if I have been understood as being against “discussion regarding characters” I need to take up another language.

As I said, questions about characters, and moral judgments about their actions, are fundamental to reading stories. When the entire conversation revolves around debating “she’s good/she’s bad/she’s terrible,” or worse, “This story depicts certain bad behavior, therefore it advocates for this behavior in real life,” the conversation rarely Illuminates anything about the story itself.

The way you worded it was as if someone shouldn't pass judgement of a character's behavior/morals. Not specifically about the people who only focus on this type of analysis.

What do you think I meant by the following?:

Such [moral] judgments are part of any reading of characters, of course. But when that’s all that there is, (especially for stories like this one, where there’s no right-acting moral center character, and where all the characters are deeply flawed and make unwise decisions), forum discussions often become a moralizing merry-go-round, with readers choosing up sides “for” or “against” certain characters. And that often ends up not having much to do with the story that’s actually being told by the author.

[I emphasized some words in the quote and fixed a typo, but I can’t be much clearer that I was in the first place. So your question truly seems like you failed to read what I said.]

Hana Ni Arashi is a Romantic Comedy so of course there will be discussions regarding characters. I should clarify that I meant genres containing Romance and or Drama will ultimately suffer from the scalpel of readers. But if it's just a comedy by it self then people tend to just release a chuckle and move on with their lives.

Wow, if I have been understood as being against “discussion regarding characters” I need to take up another language.

Perhaps I misread but I took your previous reply as you basically saying that I was wrong because people also comment on comedies like Hana Ni Arashi. I was merely explaining that anything containing elements of romance and or drama will ultimately garner dissection of characters.

I was not implying that you are against discussions.

As I said, questions about characters, and moral judgments about their actions, are fundamental to reading stories. When the entire conversation revolves around debating “she’s good/she’s bad/she’s terrible,” or worse, “This story depicts certain bad behavior, therefore it advocates for this behavior in real life,” the conversation rarely Illuminates anything about the story itself.

Stories are usually character driven so that's understandable.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 5:32PM

[I emphasized some words in the quote and fixed a typo, but I can’t be much clearer that I was in the first place. So your question truly seems like you failed to read what I said

I don't think this forum has turned into a "let's have a war of who's the more morally superior one". It does happen in general, but I don't think it applies here.

Just two more chapters to get translated (in English) & then we'll be caught up.

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 1:28PM

You know this is kind of out of the blue..but how many more chapters do you think this series were have before it ends?

You know this is kind of out of the blue..but how many more chapters do you think this series were have before it ends?

Depending on how much Flower Child want to strech it. Maybe 2 or 3 volumes, considering it's 5 chapter per volume then maybe between 10 and 15 chapters, more probably 15 chapter .

Little Aya-chan is so cute.

This is something else, huh?

Lilliwyt posted:

or all of Haruki's actions are justified because she's a small little kid

Which is mostly true no ? She is a jealous teen with raging hormons and no experience. If you'd think she will act maturely, you pick the wrong manga. Everyone is fucked up in its own way. But you can't wait the same maturity from a teenager in the closet with boiling hormons and from a grown-up adult teacher. But anyway, i already said it but i don't forsee any scenario where Haruki has the slightly chance, unless Sei keep the substitute play going on. I think the only reason the relation between Sei and Aya is off to me is because Aya is just treated as a substitute for the moiment.

Understandable and justified are two completely separate concepts. Haruki's actions are understandable because she's a ball of hormone-addled jealousy. She is not justified in anything she has done so far, however. She's just as awful for her actions as Sei is for her own.

Am I the only one who likes this story?? I find it quite interesting to read ¯_(ツ)_/¯

You know this is kind of out of the blue..but how many more chapters do you think this series were have before it ends?

Depending on how much Flower Child want to strech it. Maybe 2 or 3 volumes, considering it's 5 chapter per volume then maybe between 10 and 15 chapters, more probably 15 chapter .

At the same time, I don’t know how much more my heart can take anymore so I’d be okay with it ending so soon.... but then it’s so good that a part of me doesn’t want it to end.

How messed up it’s gonna get all depends on how many chapters there will be.

They’ll probably announce chapters ahead of its ending, maybe they’ll do it at the start of which ever volume would be last.

Understandable and justified are two completely separate concepts. Haruki's actions are understandable because she's a ball of hormone-addled jealousy. She is not justified in anything she has done so far, however. She's just as awful for her actions as Sei is for her own.

I also believe that to be true. Every character here is flawed. Their motivations are understandable yet they’re all inexcusable. Still, I can’t help but empathize with all of them.

Am I the only one who likes this story?? I find it quite interesting to read ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Definitely not the one. : D

On a side note, am I the only one who won’t be surprised if this ends tragically? I’m kinda expecting character death now.......

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 2:47PM

Hm hm, quite the chapter
1. Aya's frustration converted into top energy and lust
2. Sei is most emotionally vulnerable when it concerns Yoru and Aya doesn't know how to deal with the baggage, she'd rather avoid avoid an emotional connection
3. Aya recognises that physical intimacy isn't enough, whoops
4. Aya was clearly disgruntled when she abruptly left and Sei didn't really care or think much of it, even though she noticed tbh
5. Aya's always the one running to meet her. When they first met at Sei's apartment. When she returned Sei's clothes. When Aya went to look for her at her school. When she went to find her when Sei wanted to peace out from drinking with the math teacher
But the moment Sei got that text she went running to meet Yoru. No one can ever replace the emotional damage Yoru has on Sei tbh
6. The kindergarten extras are cute, Aya is such a good kid

Ah no i mean literally, the same comment was posted by Faust, both on Mangadex and Dynasty.

Wrote it on Mangadex first, but DS discussions tend to be more lively, so I wanted in on that. No way was I gonna rewrite that lmao

Am I the only one who likes this story?? I find it quite interesting to read ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Same same, it's erotic and the moral ambiguity is fuuun

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 2:59PM

Am I the only one who likes this story?? I find it quite interesting to read ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I am~ tend to reread alot tho..It do be hittin diffrent on ch 11 tho~ but i personally i like how they show diffrent types how a person can love each other... if it makes sense( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) and the lewdness f course that’s what i like as well

This is so funny. “I’d lose my only reason to be alive”, my ass. Where did the romance even come from? Like, there was a girl... She wanted some friends... She met a woman who harassed her online and offline, that pissed her off... Then they had huge amount of sex, just because Aya couldn’t and didn’t know how to refuse... That’s all, where’s love, where’s “reason to be alive”? Did I miss something?
The sujet is extremely forced with this romance thing. There was no development of it, it came out of nowhere. So far it’s just sophisticatedly drawn porn. Which would be okay if it wasn’t so pretentious.

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 4:21PM

This is a masterpiece

This is so funny. “I’d lose my only reason to be alive”, my ass. Where did the romance even come from? Like, there was a girl... She wanted some friends... She met a woman who harassed her online and offline, that pissed her off... Then they had huge amount of sex, just because Aya couldn’t and didn’t know how to refuse... That’s all, where’s love, where’s “reason to be alive”? Did I miss something?
The sujet is extremely forced with this romance thing. There was no development of it, it came out of nowhere. So far it’s just sophisticatedly drawn porn. Which would be okay if it wasn’t so pretentious.

That's exactly what I was thinking too. Maybe I'd be more lenient on the "extremely forced" part and simply call it too fast and baseless when you stop to think deeper about it (the bar for a normal paced development is really low for romance manga anyway) Like boo hoo, you know her for like a month?

It's weird because I'm super into this type of angsty relationships, but this one? I just don't care about rooting for them. I guess it really is because there is not much of development between them. There is no love, just Sei who desperately and sickly holds into her first love and Aya who is going to end up getting contaminated and becoming the same as Sei(although I would bet the author will flip it over in the end)
The sex scenes are actually intense and well drawn. The two characters are good looking. But it still doesn't make them appealing to me as a couple.

Also I like Haruki more despite she crossing the line of Aya's privacy (which is wrong). What Sei did with the nudes was creepy af and she deserved to be called out. Haruki's actions don't just come from jealousy, I think first and foremost she cares about Aya and the situation she is in. Imagine discovering your minor friend dating a pretty older adult who secretly takes naked pics of her and acts all smug and provocative to you.

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 4:54PM

Hm hm, quite the chapter
1. Aya's frustration converted into top energy and lust

Definitely appreciated that.

1. Sei is most emotionally vulnerable when it concerns Yoru and Aya doesn't know how to deal with the baggage, she'd rather avoid avoid an emotional connection

Yes but maybe her acting roughly after remembering her encounter with Haruki could mean that she’s at the very least worried she’ll lose her source of relief so soon.

1. Aya recognises that physical intimacy isn't enough, whoops

Though I think Aya realizes that’s it’s too late. She’s made an emotional connection with Sei and cries as she accepts Sei is incapable of having one with her because she’s too hung up on Yoru.

1. Aya was clearly disgruntled when she abruptly left and Sei didn't really care or think much of it, even though she noticed tbh

She kind of looks curious but then her phone rings.

1. Aya's always the one running to meet her. When they first met at Sei's apartment. When she returned Sei's clothes. When Aya went to look for her at her school. When she went to find her when Sei wanted to peace out from drinking with the math teacher

Like a moth to the flame. Well, Aya hasn’t really given Sei a reason to come after.

But the moment Sei got that text she went running to meet Yoru. No one can ever replace the emotional damage Yoru has on Sei tbh

I’m hoping she’ll realize how shitty Yoru has been to her and move on. Though I keep telling myself that the probability of that is probably close to 0.

I need to stop myself from hoping for a happy ending.

Sei is like a broken shell trying to survive.
A deep traumatise of unrequited-love sometime can haunt people for years and years, maybe for life. Sei want to toys with Aya's affection just like how Yoru "toys" with her affection. It's a sick kind of connection because it's seem that Yory also desire love for someone else, and she didn't get it right so she venge it out on Sei (I can't find any other explaination because Yoru doesn't seem much like a nympho to me).
Through Aya Sei can saw Yoru, and also she can feel what Yoru felt. No wonder why Yoru always comeback in her head.
I saw this circle of hell too many time but i particularly like how it is depicted on this manga. So catharsis!

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 5:37PM

This is so funny. “I’d lose my only reason to be alive”, my ass. Where did the romance even come from? Like, there was a girl... She wanted some friends... She met a woman who harassed her online and offline, that pissed her off... Then they had huge amount of sex, just because Aya couldn’t and didn’t know how to refuse... That’s all, where’s love, where’s “reason to be alive”? Did I miss something?
The sujet is extremely forced with this romance thing. There was no development of it, it came out of nowhere. So far it’s just sophisticatedly drawn porn. Which would be okay if it wasn’t so pretentious.

That's exactly what I was thinking too. Maybe I'd be more lenient on the "extremely forced" part and simply call it too fast and baseless when you stop to think deeper about it (the bar for a normal paced development is really low for romance manga anyway) Like boo hoo, you know her for like a month?

It's weird because I'm super into this type of angsty relationships, but this one? I just don't care about rooting for them. I guess it really is because there is not much of development between them. There is no love, just Sei who desperately and sickly holds into her first love and Aya who is going to end up getting contaminated and becoming the same as Sei(although I would bet the author will flip it over in the end)

Lonely teenage girl with extremely low self esteem falling for the first stranger to ever show interest in her does not feel that far fetched to me.

The fact that she went to meet Kuro at the thought of losing her means she’d already developed a strong emotional connection with Kuro over text.

Aya had nothing and then comes Sei, who’s interested in her, who took the time to message her daily just to ask about her, who sparks her own curiosity, who awakened her sexual desires, the combination of all that makes it easy for Sei to become her reason to be alive.

Sei took most of her physical firsts, the milestones usually associated with romance, her deriving pleasure when engaging in said acts, how Sei shares her frustrations, how she opens up about her painful past, how Sei had contacted her when Math teacher cornered her into a night out, how Aya in turn runs to Sei after fighting with Haruki.

All that deepened the connection that wasn’t physical, in Aya’s part, to begin with. Aya had seen Sei as her friend prior to the sexual advances. She had already felt there was trust between them and then came an unspoken establishment that they were each other’s source of comfort.

All that was enough for inexperienced Aya to get sucked in.

She tried to establish barriers but after she witnessed how broken Sei really is, Aya no longer can delude herself.

She’s affected. She failed to detach herself from Sei.

She feels trapped, knowing she’s too invested to walk away and realizes Sei will have no problem severing their ties, leaving Aya alone in her boring world once more.

The sex scenes are actually intense and well drawn. The two characters are good looking. But it still doesn't make them appealing to me as a couple.

The art is definitely amazing.

Also I like Haruki more despite she crossing the line of Aya's privacy (which is wrong). What Sei did with the nudes was creepy af and she deserved to be called out. Haruki's actions don't just come from jealousy, I think first and foremost she cares about Aya and the situation she is in. Imagine discovering your minor friend dating a pretty older adult who secretly takes naked pics of her and acts all smug and provocative to you.

You really don’t see much of Aya’s anything. Her face is covered by her bangs. Just her bare shoulders are exposed. The sheet’s covering most of her so I wouldn’t call it a nude. The photo is highly suggestive for sure.

Haruki was not satisfied with what Aya had told her so she invaded Aya’s privacy.

Even at the start, when she found out Aya was texting someone, she never once asked Aya if she’s okay with what’s going on. Never asked if she’s happy with Kuro. She just told Aya not to meet him. Then she finds herself irritated because Aya is doing the thing that she feared would eventually happen.

Aya is drifting apart from her and she can’t take it.

When she found out who Sei was and what they had done, her initial reaction wasn’t to express her concern over Aya’s wellbeing. It was to satisfy the jealous raging beast inside her so it’s a little hard for me to believe her primary motivations were concern for Aya’s wellbeing.

If she was angry because Aya wasn’t taking care of herself or because she was taken advantage of by a teacher, she would have never assaulted Aya. She does this because she felt she should have been the one with Aya.

If she’s so concerned about her friend and wants Aya to stay away, why not tell her what she did and show Aya the picture Sei sent? Maybe she eventually will do it, but if she doesn’t then I’m inclined to believe it’s because doing so conflicts with Haruki’s ultimate desire; to ensure the version of Aya that she’s grown up with stays by her side.

Aya had seen Sei as her friend prior to the sexual advances

Agh, that was for five seconds. And then Sei literally threw herself on Aya the first time they met.
I mean, it's not unbelievable why Aya likes her that much and so quick,but the phrase "she is my reason to be alive" is just ridiculous imo.

Also we see that Aya has a problem with socializing and opening up to people, so that makes it even weirder how she suddenly made that stranger her reason to live. I think this needed to be developed way slower, because even though there are reasons why she feels that way, they're not convincing and enough for me.

If she’s so concerned about her friend and wants Aya to stay away, why not tell her what she did and show Aya the picture Sei sent? Maybe she eventually will do it, but if she doesn’t then I’m inclined to believe it’s because doing so conflicts with Haruki’s ultimate desire; to ensure the version of Aya that she’s grown up with stays by her side.

Haruki tried approaching Aya a lot, but Aya keeps rejecting her. It's not easy to talk about the fact that she pried on her phone but then discovered a whole other mess. It started out as something smaller,but then she got caught up in a more complicated situation which made it harder to tell the truth. Still, I'm not saying what she did was right, but she is the most likable character of the three for me, so it sucks how the author is making her problematic on purpose so they make sure the readers ship the other two. A kind of logic like Sei is problematic, but Haruki is no angel either, so we might as well ship Aya with Sei since Sei is the main character and we are more familiar with her.

When the readership makes loooong comments over a long period of time, it’s a good sign this manga will be going places.

Aya is in trouble. Sei is poison. A cute cautionary tale about what happens to isolated teens using the internet irresponsibly.

This isn’t my favorite manga but the story itself will sell Lots and lots of copies.

last edited at Apr 25, 2020 9:03PM

Agh, that was for five seconds.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/warikitta_kankei_desukara_ch01#10

Reading this page I get the impression they were texting each other for a fairly decent amount of time before Sei just goes full 'I wanna fuck you' on Aya. Aya comments on how Sei is back early from work today, so enough to get a vague idea of a routine, as well as recommending books to each other so I am guessing they've had time to read such books as well. Sure it's done in the space of six pages for us, but I find it gives off a good enough impression that Aya finds Sei to be a friend at this point, probably her first ever that isn't just the childhood friend because they live next to each other.