^^Same for me. Dragon Quest is my fav. But FF is neat

It is Selfcest. You can philosophize all you want, but that's a fact. Same way Shirou and Archer getting it on would be selfcest. Or standard Arturia and Arturia Alter. Whether you wanna tag it that or not, it's just what it is. Their bodies and mind are exactly the same, with the exception of Kuro also having all the bad memories.

The accuracy!

@DY4Y Thanks for that fic.

...are we gon ignore sanae's feet..

^ My read on the Amanes has been that they are completely and absolutely meant to be a thing, but it is not a positive thing even in-universe that they are meant to be a thing, rather that their minds are warped by their wish, driving them to love each other a little too much, and it being a case where trying to pull them apart would do more harm than good at this point...

Just because... wishes causing problems is kind of a general theme for this franchise, and even the most inconspicious wishes can lead to some bizarre consequences.

^ Why does it seem like you deleted a comment of yours mentioning a number of IroYachi hints? Or is it the same quantum physics bs that caused a comment of mine on a previous IroYachi image to misteriously disappear? Or did I officially go crazy?

last edited at Apr 19, 2020 7:22AM

"Their bodies and mind"
Except their mind's are nothing alike. That's the whole issue. If Kuro was just Illya clone with exact same personality then I'd get how it's selfcest (even if the moment she has been cloned they personalities would start to diverge every so slightly, by different experiences), but every since Kuro came to exist, she behaved completely different to Illya, had different personality, goals, reactions. So even if they have the same body, they're 2 different people. Hence more twincest than selfcest (technically they're not sisters, but I bet biologically their bodies probably are exactly the same).

@Sakura Cartelet
Mysterious Heroine X (Alter) and Mysterious Heroine X is another whole can of worms I don't even want to go into.

Well to be fair. Amane sisters got screwed up over by everyone else and they made a wish after realizing they can only rely on each other, so they were already incredible close. Add to that the fact they they did not grow up together (studies shows we do like our partner to resemble as a bit, so family living separate and meeting later do often fall for each other, then again they're twins and we don't like too close resemblance, but I digress) only helps in them creating even stronger bond between each other. Whatever that bond evolved into love you could argue, but they're definitely inseparable soulmates. Even their Dopples show they complete each other. They're 2 halves of 1 bubble that together create a whole.

As for IroYachi, entire game is just full of their interactions and in later chapters they pretty much act like married couple taking care of the house/family, so I can't really see them other way. Sana and Felicia are their children and Tsuruno is Yachiyo's little sister dropping by every now and then. I honestly think them and MadoHomu is as canon as you can get. Subtext Canon ? And even for MadoHomu I'm not so sure if it isn't just canon. In third movie they specifically said the reason Homura was able to pull Madoka back to earth was because she felt so much love. If that's not explicit, I'm not sure what is. Iroha pretty much already proposed to Yachiyo, saying she'll spend rest of her live together with her.

I made entire rant in anime thread, but here is relevant part

last edited at Apr 19, 2020 7:56AM

^Personality is irrelevant. I said mind. She shares all of Illya's memories, except she also remembers the bad stuff. Selfcest has nothing to do with personality. If two people are genetical clones to the last detail then it's selfcest. Kuro wasn't born in a lab or from Irisviel's womb, she is simply a split part of Illya fused with the Archer card. That makes her more indentical to her than any twin could ever be.

My example of Archer and Shirou was supposed to convey this. Archer has a completely different personality and viewpoint on the world from his younger self. He gained new powers and was even physically altered due to overstraining his magic circuits. Yet if thos two got it on it would still be selfcest. Because both of them are Emiya Shirou. Kuro/Chloe is Illya, even if nobody in the story wants to acknowledge it.

Nevri absolutely laying it down with the family dynamics, hm? I honestly had not gone as far as think of Tsuruno as Yachiyo's little sister, though it does make sense, and I had reached the conclusion of thinking of Tsuruno as the "cool aunt" to Felicia... so it is a pretty similar conclusion, I suppose.

As for MadoHomu... oh come on, it is completely and utterly blatant that Homura is madly in love with Madoka even in the original series, and every piece of media after the original series just builds up more and more on it, Wraith Arc makes it very clear said feelings are mutual(specifically Homura's and Madoka's feelings for each other resonating to the point of crystalizing into a new Soul Gem, which granted Homura her new wish and the potential to become the Devil in first place), and then Homura very explicitly spells it out in Rebellion, the biggest thing you can say against MadoHomu is that they are not a couple, which is... technically true, due to circumstance there has never been a point where they were allowed to simply have a normal relationship, but that's not due to lack of love, but rather that their universe really sucks for everyone involved.

@EvelineClariss

While it is true that "never hate each other" doesn't translate to "always love each other", it is important to remember that one's personal interpretation of their wish is just as important as wording, see Felicia's wish for an example where her mental state warped her wish in a negative way, and I feel that in context, what they truly meant was "We want our relationship to always be perfect", as they viewed their resentment, thus "hate", for each other as the one thing keeping them from said perfection.

last edited at Apr 19, 2020 8:14AM

I find it kinda funny how every YachiIro image that gets uploaded ends up having discussions like this.

And I'm thankful for that, because, due to such discussions, people who don't play the game, like myself, get a more expansive view of the story through the info provided by those who do, without themselves having to bother playing, lol.

^No its seriously NOT- we ARE our personality- however it was formed. Identical twins are genetically identical you know.. they are NOT the same person. Kuro did not live the same life as Illiya even if she shares her memories - and we dont even know she DOES. Plus she has her own extra memories. And watching from within - if thats what was happening - maybe she was 'asleep' for most of it? - watching through illyas eyes is not the same as being the one doing those things.. IF she was identical in mind she would act and behave exactly like Illiya in all things- yet she is completely different mentally. To be selfcest it literally has to be another YOU - who thinks and acts the same and knows everything you do. imo.

Kuro is no more Illiya than identical twins who grow up together and share many of the same memmories are the same person.

@Sakura Cartelet Nobody said they are and are NOT sisters. They literally are NOT. They can be considered similar to sisters.

Anyways thats enough of going into that, so I'll leave it there since its in the image thread.

last edited at Apr 19, 2020 8:33AM

^ Apparently, because I see nothing wrong with them.

Oh.

Shirou and Archer are selfcest, because Shirou is literally Archer's younger self. They're from different eras. If events of grail war didn't happen, Shirou was going to eventually become Archer. Meanwhile you can't say the same about Illya and Kuro. They have 2 different personalities and depending who would be the one to live the life, they'd grow up to be different people. They might share the same genetics, but are not the same person. Just like normal real life twins. Unless you're implying our personalities don't matter and twins are the same person.

Honestly the whole my different version/timeline etc. is ultra confusing and not something we really have to deal with irl, but I feel like Kuro and Illya are a pretty clear cut example of twins.

I fear this won't end well if we continue... but I'll give one final statement as well. If for some unknown reason someone wants to continue, you can go to the Dynasty Cafe. I check it out regularly.
@Nevri See, this is where you tripped up. If Illya remembers the bad memories of the Einzbern legacy and lives through them, she becomes like Kuro. Kuro's base is Illya. The additional information is what altered her. In the same way Archer's base is Shirou, but the additional life experience made him different. These two cases are the exact same thing.

The very definition of twins denies your assertion, so I can't really agree. That's all.

last edited at Apr 19, 2020 9:40AM

MORE, MOREEE

The author did more!

https://twitter.com/fall_nocturne/status/1251854144383533057

For some reason I can't see Tsuruno as being Yachiyo's little sister. If anyone would be Yachiyo's little sister I would imagine it would more likely be Momoko given her "rebellious phase" she went through early in the game. Also Nevri what's your thoughts on Mifuyu and Yachiyo's relationship?

Goddamn look at those hungalungas.

I don't know Nevri, but personally? I view Mifuyu as Yachiyo's ex, they were together for a long time and went through a lot together, but as they grew older and into maturity, they became too different to stay together, Yachiyo is fine with being a meguca for the rest of her life, even with the risks and complications, she knows it is the life she choose and it is the fate she has accepted, Mifuyu has for a long time now yearned for a way out, a way that she could just lead a normal life without having to risk herself fighting Witches just to stay alive.

Mifuyu as Yachiyo's ex also fits too well with that one sequence in early chapter 6(later half of episode 11 to anime-onlys, keeping in mind that in the game, Mifuyu went there unprompted) where Mifuyu goes to the villa primarily to taunt Iroha and to mess with Yachiyo, that was completely Mifuyu acting as a bitchy ex, and going out of her way to rub on Iroha's face that what she has with Yachiyo at that moment doesn't compare to what she had with Yachiyo in the past... no wonder that Iroha is driven to make that major declaration to Yachiyo later in the chapter, Mifuyu made her want to go a step further.

Also can I just say, that one scene drove me very close to hating Mifuyu, she redeemed herself more than enough in the following chapters, and the story makes it clear that that scene, bitchy and venomous as it was, was ultimately just an act and that she really isn't like that, but it shows Iroha has the patience of a saint that she didn't force Mifuyu out of the house at crossbowpoint, I know I would've.

Yea, I can see Momoko like that, especially since Yachiyo used to take care of her and Momoko looked up to her. Then again, it feels like rebellious phase to us, but she did have good reason to be angry at Yachiyo, so I'd feel like she's more of a old friend Yachiyo had falling off with, but later reconciled?

With Tsuruno it's entirely based on just how game presents it. She's constantly dropping by, keeps in touch with family and acts kinda like aunt to Felicia and Sana, but isn't too far apart in age. So Yachiyo's little sister who constantly clings to her. Like with Momoko you could also go with old friend, but in her case they had falling off, but she never kept grudge against Yachiyo, so when they meet again, she went back to behaving like always.

For Yachiyo and Mifuyu, they're exes, but they drifted too far apart to ever get back together. Yachiyo of course still cares about Mifuyu, but now she has new gf to focus on.

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 1:03PM

I don't know, each time i read the headcanons on Magia Record, I feel like peoples view too far in of what it's suposs to be. It's at least the second time i heard about 2 peoples being treated as exs when there is nothing to back it up. I know there is a lot of lesbians vibes but I don't know. I like Yuri but it feel a bit too much.

Oh no, I think Mifuyu 100% meant it. After Yachiyo decided to break up team because she was afraid her wish was killing everyone and she distanced herself from everyone, including Mifuyu, Mifuyu was devastated. That's why she says that it was Yachiyo who abandoned her, not the other way around. She went to invite everyone to the lecture, but when she saw that Yachiyo pretty much went back to living and behaving the way she used to before, she got pissed, because it meant Yachiyo disbanding their team and cutting ties with her was completely pointless. She was 100% jelly of Iroha in that scene and wanted to gloat how close she is with Yachiyo.

@Lilliwyt

It's not headcanon. It's canon. If you didn't play game, you have no idea. That's how game portray their relationship. And Madoka frenchiase was always gay with MadoHomu, but Magia Record has a canon lesbian character who wished for her crush to love her back, so it's not like they'd never go there. As I said, IroYachi is pretty much canon, without ever confirming it, but you'd need to be blind to deny it.

last edited at Apr 19, 2020 2:14PM