Demi-sexuals on the other hand simply never are attracted to people they just met so they don’t have to choose not to do anything.

Isn't that being aromantic ? I don't know but to me that feel like peoples search to describe themself to feel unique.

last edited at Oct 30, 2019 11:31AM

Demi-sexuals on the other hand simply never are attracted to people they just met so they don’t have to choose not to do anything.

Isn't that being aromantic ?

No. Aromantic people never feel romantic attraction for anyone, no matter how well they bond.

“Demi-romantic” means “partly romantic, partly aromantic” and during the aromantic phases, they’re often pretty much indistinguishable from fully aromantic people, which is why demi-romantics/-sexuals are part of the aro/ace community.

I don't know but to me that feel like peoples search to describe themself to feel unique.

Yeah, that’s a not-so-rare prejudice against demis. See also here… and actually the whole site, while you’re at it. Their information on demisexuality is better and more comprehensive than what I could write here.

last edited at Oct 30, 2019 11:51AM

zensunni posted:

Look carefully at what you wrote and realize that you just entirely marginalized the way demi-romantic and demi-sexual people feel.

Telling me to "look carefully at what I wrote and realize" after completely misunderstanding my point is all sort of ironic. I didn't exclude their feelings. I included them. I said, the terms feel pointless to me, because I already include them in the definition. To me there's no point differentiating between them, because the way demiromantic/sexual people experience love is normal. There's no need to single out every single way we can experience falling in love and giving them different names, because everyone falls in love differently so there's infinite ways to experience love. Acting as if all those experiences are so fundamentally different from each other, that they need their own labels, is only going to make people more separate and alienated from each other, when in fact all those ways to fall in love are in the end perfectly normal. Sure not everyone's experience will be the same and you might share it only with small portion of people, but that's true for everything and there's nothing wrong with that. We all are different and different things will be natural for different people.

The perfect example of what I'm talking about is the term grey-a, which is basically "everyone else that didn't fit to any other term we came up with". It pretty much sums up my entire issue with it. If you can't just group everyone in few different groups, because there're always people who don't fit into any of them, but they're not big enough to warrant their own group, why try to split them in different groups in the first place?

Alright then... you are NOT demi... the fact that YOU are capable of that doesn't mean that it is the UNIVERSAL TRUTH. There are people who are NOT capable of finding someone sexually attractive in a very short amount of time (demi-sexual) and others who are not able to fall in love with someone in a short amount of time (demi-romantic). They have to form a strong bond with the person before the feelings they are "demi" about will happen.

And I never said they should be able to? I wasn't posing myself as some kind of proof. My point was that labeling myself as demi wouldn't be true since I'm capable of feeling attraction quickly, but then I had demi experience as well, so it would mean I can bond and fall for someone over the time just like a demi would. So by labeling myself either way, I'd need to deny that other part of myself as untrue, when it isn't. I was giving a example, why sometimes those specific labels just don't work.

While I would argue that demi-romantic is probably a more healthy way to enter a relationship, it isn't necessarily the norm. Most relationships do start based on the first rush of sexual and romantic attraction when a couple falls in love and not from a long term friendship that turns into love after months or years. Of course, most relationships also end in failure... but I don't know that the success rate is any better for one style over the other. Humans are humans...

I'd argue while people falling in love at first sight or dating because of initial attraction is pretty common, people developing feelings for each over time is pretty common as well. In fact I consider it the natural way feelings should develop, as no matter how attractive someone is, it's the personality that most matter in the long run. But I wouldn't go around insisting that one way or another is more common or the norm or the way things normally are. That's why I don't treat being demi as some special case, because I don't think it is. Sure, there'll be people who can't relate to you, but that's normal. It's neither your fault nor theirs.

Also I feel like this whole thing bases heavily on common conflation of feeling attracted/infatuated with someone and actually loving someone. One is fleeting feeling, mostly created by hormones and initial attraction, other is a deep, strong feeling that can last a long time if properly maintained. So it's very possible that demi people simply never experience that initial attraction.

Just in case, it's not just demi thing. I'm against labels in general. People have that unhealthy need to categorize and label everything, but I feel like sometimes it does more harm than good. Because some things are more complicated than that and you can't just put them into nice clear cut boxes and trying to do so can sometimes lead to harmful generalizations. Sure, in some situations they can work as a handy shortcuts, so you don't have to give a whole explanation to someone. But more times than not, all it does instead is just simplify concepts and remove the nuance, that you'd get from just explaining the thing yourself. So overtime labels becomes generalized stereotypes, riddled with misconceptions and associated meanings, you might not necessary agree with. Pretty much like saying you're a "leftist" without actually explaining your political views. That being said, I do understand some people's need to use labels. It can be hard to feel like you don't belong anywhere and needing that place where you fit in. Having a name. That's why I'd never criticize people for wanting to use labels or tell them to stop using them.

To end on a lighter note. The only label I'd call myself with is lesbian and the only reasons I'd do that is because I like the way word sound, but to me saying "I like girls" sounds way more natural than saying "I'm a lesbian", because it feels more like expressing myself.

Blastaar posted:

One drawback of insisting on labeling others with what purport to be "identities," though, is that people can and do change--patterns are only patterns until they're broken, and a descriptor that fits someone at one point in their life may not apply at another.

Exactly. I made very similar point in different thread quite some time ago. Putting label on yourself might help you at the time, but often it can also make you feel like you need to stick to it and become less flexible or unwilling to change or accept change, because it become part of your identity and now you're afraid to lose it.

kittey posted:

Demi-sexuals on the other hand simply never are attracted to people they just met so they don’t have to choose not to do anything.

Isn't that being aromantic ?

No. Aromantic people never feel romantic attraction for anyone, no matter how well they bond.

“Demi-romantic” means “partly romantic, partly aromantic” and during the aromantic phases, they’re often pretty much indistinguishable from fully aromantic people, which is why demi-romantics/-sexuals are part of the aro/ace community.

This made me hate labels even more tbh, I prefer to stick to things like "be yourself" or "be free" ... All these terms feels like obsessions to keep things in check, and if the person suddenly changes then everything crumbles and we have to come up with even more terms... At some point you might realize that everyone is different and we can't hold the complexity of one's feeling to one word, well that's just my opinion.

I just need to know that they're in love and they like music.

last edited at Oct 30, 2019 11:57AM

To me there's no point differentiating between homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality, because the way homosexual/bisexual people experience love is normal. There's no need to single out every single way we can experience falling in love and giving them different names, because everyone falls in love differently so there's infinite ways to experience love. Acting as if all those experiences are so fundamentally different from each other, that they need their own labels, is only going to make people more separate and alienated from each other, when in fact all those ways to fall in love are in the end perfectly normal. Sure not everyone's experience will be the same and you might share it only with small portion of people, but that's true for everything and there's nothing wrong with that. We all are different and different things will be natural for different people.

Exploitable PSA by Nevri. :D (Everything above after the first sentence is a direct copy and still fits.)

Getting back on-topic, this reminded me of why I like this series: not just because of the slow-burn romance, but also because there’s no angst about same-sex relationships and it’s not an unrealistic yuritopia with only lesbian relationships either. No, the world in this series obviously has heterosexual relationships but I can’t remember any instance of same-sex relationships being treated as anything out of the ordinary. That’s the kind of utopian world I like. :D

kittey posted:

Exploitable PSA by Nevri. :D (Everything above after the first sentence is a direct copy and still fits.)

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or mocking me, but I agree with my copypasta your argument, so gj?

No, the world in this series obviously has heterosexual relationships but I can’t remember any instance of same-sex relationships being treated as anything out of the ordinary. That’s the kind of utopian world I like. :D

I agree, that's how it should work. There's nothing wrong with assuming people are straight by default, but once you learn someone is not, all it should cause is you simply adjusting your behavior/comments towards them and nothing more. It shouldn't be treated as big deal or something out of ordinary. Reading works like that feels nice and is really refreshing.

Gonna go back to my asuka and ayako

I'm saying this, but the band give me the Afterglow's vibe

I'm saying this, but the band give me the Afterglow's vibe

Exactly what I was thinking when I see that panel

No, the world in this series obviously has heterosexual relationships but I can’t remember any instance of same-sex relationships being treated as anything out of the ordinary. That’s the kind of utopian world I like. :D

Isn't it kinda the norm in yuri at this point? I mean, one recurring criticism against yuri is that it doesn't tackle issues like homophobia.

Anyway, I like how this series is developing. =O It helps that I greatly enjoyed Given last season and this looks like a less angsty version of it, so I'm all in.

No, the world in this series obviously has heterosexual relationships but I can’t remember any instance of same-sex relationships being treated as anything out of the ordinary. That’s the kind of utopian world I like. :D

Isn't it kinda the norm in yuri at this point? I mean, one recurring criticism against yuri is that it doesn't tackle issues like homophobia.

I agree that external homophobia is rarely tackled in yuri, i.e., discrimination by other characters. However, internalized homophobia is pretty common, sometimes also referred to as gayngst. Whenever a girl thinks or says “falling in love with a girl is strange” or “two girls can’t go out”, it’s pretty obvious that she’s living in a society where homophobia is prevalent and she accepted these messages as truth.

I think that most yuri avoids homophobia (by others) simply by avoiding situations in which it would be expected: lesbian utopias with no males and only lesbian relationships, or not bringing up same-sex relationships with other characters, either by the main characters keeping their relationship secret or simply having no or few interaction with other characters in one-shots or series with few characters, so there’s little chance for homophobia to pop up.

But not in this series. Even though it’s not a lesbian utopia, the main characters openly talk to their friends about their (potential) relationship, where some kind of negative reactions or at least hesitation or surprise would be expected in a homophobic society, but neither they themselves nor anyone else minds the same-sex attraction and they treat it like nothing out of the ordinary.

last edited at Nov 6, 2019 8:56AM

kittey posted:

No, the world in this series obviously has heterosexual relationships but I can’t remember any instance of same-sex relationships being treated as anything out of the ordinary. That’s the kind of utopian world I like. :D

Isn't it kinda the norm in yuri at this point? I mean, one recurring criticism against yuri is that it doesn't tackle issues like homophobia.

I agree that external homophobia is rarely tackled in yuri, i.e., discrimination by other characters.

You sure we read the same genre? Sure there's plenty of yuri where either everyone is gay or nobody even bats a eye at dating another girl, but there's also plenty of works where characters are afraid of expressing their feelings or dating, because it's not universally accepted and a lot people are homophobic and also when they do date, they keep it secret from fear of people treating them badly. Wanting to stay in closet and asking your partner the same thing is often vital to being able to have any semblance of peaceful life. Sure open homophobia isn't always shown (but it's also not as uncommon as you make it to be), but that doesn't mean character wasn't treated badly before or didn't see examples of open homophobia in their life, that were simply never shown to us, which could be the reason why now they prefer to keep low profile. Japan is openly homophobic country after all, where being gay is treated as just a phase between girls and is acceptable as long as they grow up out of it and become proper adults and get married.

And no. It's not internalized homophobia. It's called facing reality. Even article you linked says the true source is homophobia and forced heteronormativity all around us and internalized homophobia is only side effect of it. It's normal to not fit in and fear treated and rejected when you don't fit in and people treat and reject you. Avoiding coming out and similar behavior is understandable effect of being surrounded by such hostility. What we should be focusing on is fight the external homophobia and forced heteronormativity and once being gay become something normal, then people naturally will stop fearing about their safety and like they don't belong. Until we deal with that, being openly gay and doing a lot of thing is simply not a option in a lot of parts of world and putting blame on people for not living freely and telling them to fix their environment on their own is not realistic.

last edited at Nov 6, 2019 10:06AM

Tsutsui reminds me of Riko from PreCure

Either way, this is really nice.

Picked up by Kodansha as "Whisper You a Love Song".
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2019-11-17/kodansha-comics-announces-12-digital-manga-licenses-4-manga-print-releases/.153347

This won't affect our translation, as per usual.

Well that was quick…

"sure! Go ahead!..."

Do you mind if I take Yori for myself?

mellow voice: I don't know if she minds, sudden menacing voice: but I sure do!

Love triangle done right (well at least with some nuance)

Picked up by Kodansha as "Whisper You a Love Song".
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2019-11-17/kodansha-comics-announces-12-digital-manga-licenses-4-manga-print-releases/.153347

This won't affect our translation, as per usual.

Neat. I'm curious to see how the official translation will tackle the misunderstanding at the beginning. It's one of those things that seems pretty difficult to translate effectively without having one party look like a total ditz.

I bet that Aki-senpai said that on purpose... Yori is waiting for Himari while Himari is doing her thing... Someone seriously have to take action and of course, it was Aki-senpai. I wonder why Aki-senpai didn't confess to Yori in the first place... she have confidence enough to say that to Himari....

Because she knows Yori doesn't love her.

Whoo!!! Catalyst!

I almost feel like Aki said that more in order to test Himari than anything else. I mean, sure, Aki is genuinely in love with Yori, but knows that Yori is in love with Himari, and (if I remember correctly) Yori did (at least sorta) tell her friends (including Aki) that Himari told her that she isn't sure of her feelings. How Aki decides to act next will probably depend on Himari's answer to the question she asked at the end of this chapter. That's the way I see it.

I bet that Aki-senpai said that on purpose... Yori is waiting for Himari while Himari is doing her thing... Someone seriously have to take action and of course, it was Aki-senpai. I wonder why Aki-senpai didn't confess to Yori in the first place... she have confidence enough to say that to Himari....

I mean yeah she do it on purpose. She know the whole story. I don't know if she is completly serious about what she said. She do it because she saw how insecure Yoriis about the whole situation and she is starting to bepissed off that Himari is still hesitant about her feelings and so she decide to stand up as a rival to see if Himari will make a move or not. Considering she already know that she might not having a chance to change Yori's feeling, it's pretty bold but i think she can't bear anymore seeing the one she love being that conflicted over someone that might not loving her.

It's a strawman. look at the way their eyes re drawn and you'll realize that this is nothing more than a test of platonic vs romantic affection.

Funnily eough the only one being the most effected is going to be Aki, since this is basically her last stand and goodbye to her own love for Yori.

Himawari Gabatte!