I'm really tired of all the users here who constantly call out "assault" or "molestation" or "abuse". Clearly too many people that spent too much time on tumblr and not enough time in the real world.

Yeah, it's fine to point it out or maybe discuss it shortly, but dragging it out and having it brought up over and over again....
I'm absolutely in love with the story.

Kagami just seems like a molster, maiden=bitch, it's just a matter of time until Indou accepts the molestation, "what a sweet story" <== MASSIVE SARCASM.

"Molestation" is an unreasonable term. They're like, two years apart, tops. There is definitely an unbalanced power dynamic at play, which makes a relationship problematic, but they're also both kids, which changes the calculus on whether it's fair to accuse either of them of wrongdoing.

Ohmygoodness don't tell me that, here too, people are going to start screaming harassment, molestation, abuse of power and rape???

໒( ಥ ʖ̯ ಥ )७

Ohmygoodness don't tell me that, here too, people are going to start screaming harassment, molestation, abuse of power and rape???

໒( ಥ ʖ̯ ಥ )७

Well, right now it is a story about abuse of power sexual harassment. Calling it rape is obviously going too far. Also, we don't really know what Indou's thinking, only that this is clearly making her really uncomfortable. If she decides she's fine with it, then you can't really call it harassment anymore.

Ohmygoodness don't tell me that, here too, people are going to start screaming harassment, molestation, abuse of power and rape???

໒( ಥ ʖ̯ ಥ )७

Well, right now it is a story about abuse of power sexual harassment. Calling it rape is obviously going too far. Also, we don't really know what Indou's thinking, only that this is clearly making her really uncomfortable. If she decides she's fine with it, then you can't really call it harassment anymore.

To repeat myself--and yet and yet. As we've pointed out from the first, this series poses some real conceptual problems in trying to match up real-world historical and cultural values.

By the standards of contemporary Western society, you're quite right.

By the standards of the Japanese military of the early 20th century, there's functionally no such thing as "abuse of power" by a military superior to a subordinate (well, technically there was, but it would be quite a ways from anything we've seen here). And trying to triangulate what "sexual harassment" would look like in that context is rather daunting.

By the standards of this specific imagined storyworld, the jury is still out. We know that something like a "maiden" relationship exists, and Ooba suggests that there may be something problematic about it, but we don't know its actual status--are such relationships approved of by the authorities, are they a kind of student-body institutional tradition on the down-low, how common are they, etc.? And what's with Kagami's rejection of the term in light of her behavior toward Indou?

One thing that makes this different from other series set in such parallel storyworlds is that I don't get the feeling that information is being arbitrarily withheld, but that we'll learn how this world works along with Indou.

(This is all stipulating that I do not consider fictional works to be primarily guidebooks to real-world moral behavior submitted for our approval or disapproval.)

Well, in the actual early 20th century Japanese military, officers were required to regularly beat their subordinates. This was considered just and necessary. Then there's also the issue of mass rape, murder of civilians, etc. all of which were considered just and necessary for the proper functioning of the military.

Why the fuck would we judge them by their own standards? Their standards were awful.

Also, I'd say it's unwise to compare this story to its real-world counterpart. Just from the shortage of beatings alone, it's clear this is a very different world with different rules.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 4:19PM

Well, in the actual early 20th century Japanese military, officers were required to regularly beat their subordinates. This was considered just and necessary. Then there's also the issue of mass rape, murder of civilians, etc. all of which were considered just and necessary for the proper functioning of the military.

Why the fuck would we judge them by their own standards? Their standards were awful.

Um, that's kind of my point? There's no getting there from here-- and the faux-historical setting of the story just confuses the issue.

Since the standards of this storyworld itself have yet to be fully delineated, all we basically know is that an unexpected welcoming hug and an ambush kiss have surprised and confused Indou, which is to be expected since she was also surprised at having a mattress on her bed and getting meat for dinner.

Um, that's kind of my point? There's no getting there from here-- and the faux-historical setting of the story just confuses the issue.

Since the standards of this storyworld itself have yet to be fully delineated, all we basically know is that an unexpected welcoming hug and an ambush kiss have surprised and confused Indou, which is to be expected since she was also surprised at having a mattress on her bed and getting meat for dinner.

I don't see what you mean. The standards aren't really important. Clearly Indou is perturbed and upset. She spent several chapters in anxiety and dread at the thought of being kissed, and has spent one chapter in shock. She's not merely surprised, she's completely at a loss. We don't need to see what this sort of relationship means to other characters, or to the world in general, since to Indou it's clearly something so disturbing that she's incapable of dealing with it. She doesn't know how to think about it and she's afraid to tell other people.

It's possible she'll change her mind (given the nature of the story, I'm assuming she will) but right now, I think the situation is obvious.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 4:39PM

Clearly Indou is perturbed and upset. She spent several chapters in anxiety and dread at the thought of being kissed, and has spent one chapter in shock. She's not merely surprised, she's completely at a loss.

This strikes me as an exceptionally dramatic reading of Indou's current emotional state (at least in the translated chapters I've seen so far)--she's extremely confused by Kagami, certainly, as she has been from the beginning. So where you're seeing a traumatic crisis, I'm seeing more of what we've seen all along.

As the bullying scene with Hasebe shows, Indou doesn't really know how to navigate any of this system, which seems to be full of unwritten rules and institutional customs that she's never heard of until she falls afoul of them.

But one thing we know about Indou is that she's intrepid and resilient, and she has yet to realize that Kagami is as troubled by her as she is by Kagami.

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 5:16PM

This strikes me as an exceptionally dramatic reading of Indou's current emotional state (at least in the translated chapters I've seen so far)--she's extremely confused by Kagami, certainly, as she has been from the beginning. So where you're seeing a traumatic crisis, I'm seeing more of what we've seen all along.

As the bullying scene with Hasebe shows, Indou doesn't really know how to navigate any of this system, which seems to be full of unwritten rules and institutional customs that she's never heard of until she falls afoul of them.

But one thing we know about Indou is that she's intrepid and resilient, and she has yet to realize that Kagami is as troubled by her as she is by Kagami.

Well, you're right, I am over-dramatizing it. But your comment comparing it to her surprise at being able to sleep in a bed is equally an understatement, so let's call it even? The thought of being kissed has caused Indou more consternation than anything else so far, she really has been worrying about it for several chapters.

If this were in any other situation I'd say the whole thing was within the bounds of normal human relations—sometimes people get kissed when they're not expecting it, or when they don't want it, since nobody can perfectly read another person's mind. It's only the fact that Indou is trapped with her superior officer that makes the whole thing a little sinister. Though like I said, I've no doubt she'll warm up to the idea.

This strikes me as an exceptionally dramatic reading of Indou's current emotional state (at least in the translated chapters I've seen so far)--she's extremely confused by Kagami, certainly, as she has been from the beginning. So where you're seeing a traumatic crisis, I'm seeing more of what we've seen all along.

Well, you're right, I am over-dramatizing it. But your comment comparing it to her surprise at being able to sleep in a bed is equally an understatement, so let's call it even?

Deal. :)

In other matters, I think the “Kagami: Rapist or Molester?” question has overshadowed an important point by emphasizing Indou’s vulnerability and naïveté—we have evidence that she’s an ace in the field, a quality that certainly will come to the fore in the future. Although she’s undersized, she was the first to the top of the hill in that so-called field exercise, and she was undaunted by both the snake and the boar in the Picnic of Love when Kagami was totally freaked. As Doctor Hoot pointed out, the whole mom-reveal and kiss sequence took place under conditions much closer to equality than their official positions suggest.

I think the half-feral-child thing is going to stand her in good stead eventually. (Which suddenly made me think of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer—“then one foggy Christmas Eve . . .”—so I’ll stop now.)

last edited at Dec 28, 2018 8:27PM

Oh, definitely. The "let's cook this snake" scene made me think of Ranger training.... Maybe she'll start the Japanese Army Special Forces?

Is it safe to come out now?

Is it safe to come out now?

Apparently it never will be.

Nuke this thread pls

Can´t you guys just enjoy the series? Why must everything in here be made an ultimate debate of biblical proportions about real life problems? Don´t we get enough reminders in the real world that life sucks?

This is the story of two girls finding love in an environment where romance is an unpredictability and both of them don't seem to have much experience in the matter. So what if one of them is a little more direct? I think is quite refreshing that a character is not the cliché overly tsundere and shy girl we saw so many times before. She´s a little bit assertive but that quite remember me of Kase-san at the beggining of her relantioship with Yamada.

All these problems you are pointing out, I doubt the author created this series with them in mind. They want to draw the romantic relantionship between two girls and maybe, they have a thing for uniforms. Uniforms and yuri. Who cares?

You guys are reading too much into it. It´s a great and cute story with a great and cute pairing and I don´t see many yuri romances in a military scenario so points for originality.

last edited at Dec 30, 2018 11:21AM

What is a forum for if not for discussion?

This strikes me as an exceptionally dramatic reading of Indou's current emotional state (at least in the translated chapters I've seen so far)--she's extremely confused by Kagami, certainly, as she has been from the beginning. So where you're seeing a traumatic crisis, I'm seeing more of what we've seen all along.

Well, you're right, I am over-dramatizing it. But your comment comparing it to her surprise at being able to sleep in a bed is equally an understatement, so let's call it even?

Deal. :)

Can I just take a moment to say that this was really cool. I've never seen two people actually admit that the other person is right (in parts) and that they were wrong (in other parts). I'm so sick of seeing people just yelling, "You're wrong!" with their fingers in their ears.

So yeah, really refreshing. You two are awesome.

Schuyguy, I think we scared them. Lol

That was really nothing—I know schuyguy is always an excellent reader, and I was just a little surprised, not at the idea, but how vehemently it was being expressed.

So we worked it out. :)

Blastaar x schuyguy

I ship them <3

New OTP confirmed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

What is a forum for if not for discussion?

memes

Schuyguy, I think we scared them. Lol

That was really nothing—I know schuyguy is always an excellent reader, and I was just a little surprised, not at the idea, but how vehemently it was being expressed.

So we worked it out. :)

Well, I guess so.... I do tend to exaggerate. Anything worth arguing is worth arguing to the extreme (well, not really). I always enjoy discussing manga with you as well.

last edited at Jan 1, 2019 9:48PM

Chapter 6 reminds me of basic training when it's lights out and you and all the other trainees are fooling around doing some stupid shit.. then the TI's walk in and you scramble to get back into bed under the covers trying not to make a sound lol. Sometimes someone got caught and let's just say the whole dorm would get lit up

Based on this, I think Kagami doesn't have her feelings yet sorted for Indou. C'mon Kagami, be more honest with yourself!

Where do I find these learning institutions where one of the main conditions for you to get in is that you must be a gay girl?

First was Strawberry Panic now this...