Wow I didn't know that incest was legal in so many countries! Glad to know that there are so few cases of it despite that.

Incest is not a threath for society at all, so aside from non-consensual situations, the only argument against it is moral.

And sorry, but saying "it's okay because it's a manga, but in real life is gross" sound like the thing homophobic people say about yuri mangas.

You didn't get my point, did you? What I was talking about in my first post and am afraid of happening if things like this are Encouraged(important word here) is that it will destroy ones family relations and with it the entire family system - the very base of human society. There is no concept of Family in an incest society imo. For daughters, Fathers will be like any other male of the society they can bang and vice versa. The same applies to Mother/son and brother/sister relations. Hence the destruction of [our] society if incest is made acceptable through works like this.

@UranusAndNeptune

If you can't tolerate others opinion and don't have the capacity to converse without whining and getting personal (which you proved in your above post), it puts a serious question mark on your civility/maturity. I am a free person and it is my right (like any of you) to have my own opinion and express it freely. You can disagree with me all you want but getting personal, calling me a child and telling me what to read and what to not? What kind of nonsense is this? Who exactly is being childish here? Had heard maturity does not always come with age. I guess you proved that today.

last edited at Apr 14, 2018 4:19AM

Wow I didn't know that incest was legal in so many countries! Glad to know that there are so few cases of it despite that.

Incest is not a threath for society at all, so aside from non-consensual situations, the only argument against it is moral.

And sorry, but saying "it's okay because it's a manga, but in real life is gross" sound like the thing homophobic people say about yuri mangas.

You didn't get my point, did you? What I was talking about in my first post and am afraid of happening if things like this are Encouraged(important word here) is that it will destroy ones family relations and with it the entire family system - the very base of human society. There is no concept of Family in an incest society imo. For daughters, Fathers will be like any other male of the society they can bang and vice versa. The same applies to Mother/son and brother/sister relations. Hence the destruction of [our] society if incest is made acceptable through works like this.

Idk, my sis and i still have a sisterly relationship despite being together. Our basic everyday interaction is not much different from when we grew up, were just a bit more flirty than before. I can see how it would effect Parent/Child relationships, but i can speak from experience that it isnt the case with us at least.

You didn't get my point, did you? What I was talking about in my first post and am afraid of happening if things like this are Encouraged(important word here) is that it will destroy ones family relations and with it the entire family system - the very base of human society. There is no concept of Family in an incest society imo. For daughters, Fathers will be like any other male of the society they can bang and vice versa. The same applies to Mother/son and brother/sister relations. Hence the destruction of [our] society if incest is made acceptable through works like this.

Lmao, this is just... lol! First of all, being into incest fiction or even being tolerant and non-judgemental of incest in real life does not amount to encouragement. There is a difference between accepting something without judgement, and actually encouraging it. No one is saying "woah, incest is awesome, do it, everyone".

Secondly, even if people were encouraging incest here (which they are not), it would not make any difference, lmfao! There are some really powerful psychological mechanisms (like the Westermarck effect) that prevent incestual feelings for the vast majority of people in everyday life. You can not fucking encourage people to do incest, are you even being serious here??

Thirdly, I already brought this up, but you apparently missed it. Your whole argument is the same bullshit that was peddled against gay marriage. "Oh noes, if we legalise it, we shall have an epidemic of gay marriages, traditional family will be forever ruined." Never mind that gay people are perfectly capable of having normal families, but the traditional (het) family remained safe and secure, because guess what! Legalising gay marriage did not "encourage" people to be gay, it just allowed those who already are to acquire the same legal status with their partners as heterosexual couples.

Fourthly, are you serious (again)?? I am actually asking this, because you sound... not quite rational, shall we say. Destruction of society????? Yes, a website dedicated to a niche genre (yuri) hosting a work that is essentially a niche within a niche (yuri incest) will pave the way towards utter destruction of our society, what are you, 10 years old??

And lastly, if incest is not your thing, then may I suggest not reading works such as this one? It is clearly tagged, you have no excuse being here, other than wanting to peddle how wrong this is and how we should not be receiving it as positively as we are. Seriously, piss off.

last edited at Apr 10, 2018 5:32PM

Nez Note

Okay folks, it's time to wrap up the discussion of incest in the real world, at least until such time as the author of the manga chooses to include those issues in the story itself. This has been interesting at times, and I've been happy to give people a chance to discuss, but we've been around and around and around the same ground far too many times and the time has come to let it go. We're 26 pages in, that's more than enough room for everyone to have their say multiple times.

From here on in, please stick to discussing the story and the issues brought up by the author directly.

I expect a few people will still post replies without looking at this post, and I ask everyone else to not respond. If people are persistent I'll consider trimming or removing posts as appropriate, but I'd really rather not do that.

Nez Note

Okay folks, it's time to wrap up the discussion of incest in the real world, at least until such time as the author of the manga chooses to include those issues in the story itself. This has been interesting at times, and I've been happy to give people a chance to discuss, but we've been around and around and around the same ground far too many times and the time has come to let it go. We're 26 pages in, that's more than enough room for everyone to have their say multiple times.

From here on in, please stick to discussing the story and the issues brought up by the author directly.

I expect a few people will still post replies without looking at this post, and I ask everyone else to not respond. If people are persistent I'll consider trimming or removing posts as appropriate, but I'd really rather not do that.

So i have a question then, just to be safe. I think the wording allows it, but i like to always make absolutely sure with mod posts. ^ ^

People have asked me to share my personal perspective on things that are brought up in the manga when it is something that relates to my situation. So if something happens in a new chapter that fits the bill, am i allowed to do that, or should i stay quiet?

Autumn posted:

For daughters, Fathers will be like any other male of the society they can bang and vice versa. The same applies to Mother/son and brother/sister relations.

Assuming the second incest is legal, everyone will be doing it. You are forgetting that most people will still see their family as, well, family. There is a reason most people feel no attraction to their parents or siblings and that is because they are raised by them/together with them and don't even perceive them as potential sexual partner. You just assumes that legalization of it, will somehow change the perception people themselves develop over their life. The only realistic scenario for sibling falling for their other sibling/parent is when they were separated and are not aware they are related. Because without experience of growing together and/or knowledge of their bloodline, they will treat each other as potential partner. Sure you could argue there are some other plausible scenarios (mostly shown in anime/manga) like if 1 sibling is really nice to other sibling, then they can develop a crush on them, but it rarely goes beyond that and even if, other sibling would need to reciprocate as well, which make this scenario even more unlikely to occur. And let's ignore the fact that for both mother and daughter to turn out to be lesbians/bi and fall for each other is like like winning a jackpot. So yea, hard to imagine it suddenly happening world wide just because we changed some laws.

For everything else. What UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins said.

EDIT/ Well shit, I guess it is my luck to be late to discussions.

last edited at Apr 10, 2018 5:50PM

People have asked me to share my personal perspective on things that are brought up in the manga when it is something that relates to my situation. So if something happens in a new chapter that fits the bill, am i allowed to do that, or should i stay quiet?

While your perspective is certainly interesting and your experience is valid, I think the basics we've covered here already are enough. If you're willing to discuss it in another venue and provide a link, or if you're on the Dynasty Discord server, that would be absolutely fine.

I'm cleaning this up because again, it's not about the story, it's about a specific user. Not really the venue for that.

If we're talking about the story now... Am I the only one waiting for the characters introduced early on to actually become relevant to the plot? With the slow release of chapters, I can barely remember anyone except Asuka, Ayako, and Akira without re-reading the whole thing. Jun, especially, seemed like he would be important, but I think he's only come up in like three chapters, and only physically appeared in one.

Autumn, post that one more time and you get a ban.

If we're talking about the story now... Am I the only one waiting for the characters introduced early on to actually become relevant to the plot? With the slow release of chapters, I can barely remember anyone except Asuka, Ayako, and Akira without re-reading the whole thing. Jun, especially, seemed like he would be important, but I think he's only come up in like three chapters, and only physically appeared in one.

Jun will be pretty prominent in the next chapter.

If we're talking about the story now... Am I the only one waiting for the characters introduced early on to actually become relevant to the plot? With the slow release of chapters, I can barely remember anyone except Asuka, Ayako, and Akira without re-reading the whole thing. Jun, especially, seemed like he would be important, but I think he's only come up in like three chapters, and only physically appeared in one.

Jun will be pretty prominent in the next chapter.

Should I look forward to that, or dread it?

Should I look forward to that, or dread it?

I'll leave that to your imagination ;)

Yay! I like this manga. I always want to say thank you for the translator & editor.

There was a “why no het” thread elsewhere on this forum that quickly went sour, but thinking about the return of Jun to this one clarified for me why het (or more precisely, straight guys as potential love interests) in yuri usually don’t work for me. It’s nothing about “purity” or thinking boys are stinky (though sometimes in real life male grooming and hygiene indeed do not get the attention they deserve); it’s that they exist only to cause trouble—if it’s yuri, boys (faithful yuri allies excepted ) are almost inevitably doomed to be one-dimensional plot-driven sh*t-stirrers.

In this case, Jun:
* has a thing for Asuka
* knows about (although perhaps not in detail) and strongly disapproves of Asuka’s feelings for her mother

So barring a sudden conversion to incestual yurism, what can Jun do except be annoying with his feelings for MC, spill secrets, and make everyone feel bad?

I’m not saying the character (or any straight male in yuri) can’t be used effectively and in an interesting way, just that past experience suggests that the odds are against it. I’m hoping to be proven wrong.

(I’m also hoping that responses, if any, stay strictly on yuri storytelling in general and this story in particular. Anything else and I’ll just apologize and delete this.)

There was a “why no het” thread elsewhere on this forum that quickly went sour, but thinking about the return of Jun to this one clarified for me why het (or more precisely, straight guys as potential love interests) in yuri usually don’t work for me. It’s nothing about “purity” or thinking boys are stinky (though sometimes in real life male grooming and hygiene indeed do not get the attention they deserve); it’s that they exist only to cause trouble—if it’s yuri, boys (faithful yuri allies excepted ) are almost inevitably doomed to be one-dimensional plot-driven sh*t-stirrers.

In this case, Jun:
* has a thing for Asuka
* knows about (although perhaps not in detail) and strongly disapproves of Asuka’s feelings for her mother

So barring a sudden conversion to incestual yurism, what can Jun do except be annoying with his feelings for MC, spill secrets, and make everyone feel bad?

I’m not saying the character (or any straight male in yuri) can’t be used effectively and in an interesting way, just that past experience suggests that the odds are against it. I’m hoping to be proven wrong.

(I’m also hoping that responses, if any, stay strictly on yuri storytelling in general and this story in particular. Anything else and I’ll just apologize and delete this.)

For me, it isn't even just males in yuri. I feel exactly this way about love rivals in general, which is why love triangles are so hit-or-miss in my experience. Far too often, they only serve to force development of the main couple and don't stand on their own as characters.
In this specific instance, I'm also bothered by the character's nature as a Chekhov's gun; it was obvious he was going to come up again, and his lack of any real importance up 'til now just makes me doubt that he'll be incorporated organically into the plot. Of course, I'm hoping to be proven wrong.

Based on the future chapters so far this series isn't one you can so easily predict based on past examples

Based on the future chapters so far this series isn't one you can so easily predict based on past examples

Delighted to hear that. (Things that are done well . . . are good.)

Based on the future chapters so far this series isn't one you can so easily predict based on past examples

I am both very intruiged and very afraid. ^^

The only thing im hoping for at the moment is a happy ending for the two.

Perhaps I'm speaking out of line, but I'd like to remind people that Nezchan explicitly asked for us to not respond to further... off-topic posts. Besides, the comment in question will likely be gone by the end of the day, so what's the point in quoting it?

For me, it isn't even just males in yuri. I feel exactly this way about love rivals in general, which is why love triangles are so hit-or-miss in my experience. Far too often, they only serve to force development of the main couple and don't stand on their own as characters.

It's particularly bad if it's an Ex that plays the third wheel. Usually, the reader is told all the various flaws the ex has - so you already know they aren't "right". Then the protagonist for some contrived reasons still does something with them (or at least their love interest thinks they do). So either you've got a misunderstanding that's too stupid to believe or you have a protagonist that's too stupid to believe.

And while real life people of course regularly do stupid things it doesn't make for good fiction, usually (some self-sabotaging characters can be appealing, but it needs to be done well ^^; ).

In this specific instance, I'm also bothered by the character's nature as a Chekhov's gun; it was obvious he was going to come up again, and his lack of any real importance up 'til now just makes me doubt that he'll be incorporated organically into the plot. Of course, I'm hoping to be proven wrong.

Very true. However, I think you're also pointing out why it's so difficult to do this right in fiction: real life, everybody runs in a few dozen people each day. If somebody were to observe you, they wouldn't automatically know which one is important.

In fiction though, you only get the high lights. All characters need to serve some function, otherwise they shouldn't be in the story. But then, in romances, there aren't that many options of what they can be there for ...

Balancing this is a tough task to give any author, I think.

For me, it isn't even just males in yuri. I feel exactly this way about love rivals in general, which is why love triangles are so hit-or-miss in my experience. Far too often, they only serve to force development of the main couple and don't stand on their own as characters.

It's particularly bad if it's an Ex that plays the third wheel. Usually, the reader is told all the various flaws the ex has - so you already know they aren't "right". Then the protagonist for some contrived reasons still does something with them (or at least their love interest thinks they do). So either you've got a misunderstanding that's too stupid to believe or you have a protagonist that's too stupid to believe.

And while real life people of course regularly do stupid things it doesn't make for good fiction, usually (some self-sabotaging characters can be appealing, but it needs to be done well ^^; ).

Why are there so few stories where issues with an ex are all in the character's head, and the ex isn't actually malicious or aggressive? I mean, that's really the most realistic scenario; the ex and the love interest are over and have moved on, but the MC can't help but be paranoid about the relationship they used to have (or maybe switch the love interest and MC, either way can work).
I'm really hoping that someone understands what I'm referencing here.

In this specific instance, I'm also bothered by the character's nature as a Chekhov's gun; it was obvious he was going to come up again, and his lack of any real importance up 'til now just makes me doubt that he'll be incorporated organically into the plot. Of course, I'm hoping to be proven wrong.

Very true. However, I think you're also pointing out why it's so difficult to do this right in fiction: real life, everybody runs in a few dozen people each day. If somebody were to observe you, they wouldn't automatically know which one is important.

In fiction though, you only get the high lights. All characters need to serve some function, otherwise they shouldn't be in the story. But then, in romances, there aren't that many options of what they can be there for ...

Balancing this is a tough task to give any author, I think.

I see your point, but that's not really what I meant. Of course, now that I'm trying to explain myself I can't seem to find the words, so I'm just going to concede the point before I give myself a headache. Actually, it's already too late for that.

Nooooo. This pointless misunderstanding had better be completely inconsequential and short lived or I'll be upset.

TO NEZCHAN: Please tell me where I should write chapter’s volume when uploading. Should I write it in the “Name” field? Because when I write it in the “info” field it’s always, always, always ignored by Mods.
This. Chapter. Is. From. Volume. 4.

TO NEZCHAN: Please tell me where I should write chapter’s volume when uploading. Should I write it in the “Name” field? Because when I write it in the “info” field it’s always, always, always ignored by Mods.
This. Chapter. Is. From. Volume. 4.

Hm. I'll pass it along to dpf, who usually handles that side of things.