The title needs to be more grammartistical! I recomment "She and Me Is..."

The title needs to be more grammartistical! I recomment "She and Me Is..."

Or keep the same phrasing and fix it the other way: “Being Lovers is the Case with Me and Her.”

The title needs to be more grammartistical! I recomment "She and Me Is..."

Or keep the same phrasing and fix it the other way: “Being Lovers is the Case with Me and Her.”

English as she is spoke.

Hey wait no, there were the incest twins and the school girls, what...

Uh yeah, Kinuko really chose a good spot to hang herself. Make sure your lover sees your dead body when she least expects it...

Hurm. This is too "let's be edgy" for me. That sort of stuff can be great ... but this just feels vaguely random.

I mean, amnesia, sure, maybe, but are there actual hints to that? Did she also change her name along the way somehow? ^^;

Exactly what I thought, that's just doesn't make any sense to me. From the last page, "I never lived in thag place and my name not minoko" it's clearly not an amnesia.

I still think it's a statement about "how things were back then" compared to "how things are now". There's probably nothing more to tell.

Ie, in the 70/80s, being in a samesex couple, was unthinkable and a social dead-end.

That the Japanese reader would be shocked is telling of how the younger generations have changed of mentality.

I still think it's a statement about "how things were back then" compared to "how things are now". There's probably nothing more to tell.

Ie, in the 70/80s, being in a samesex couple, was unthinkable and a social dead-end.

That the Japanese reader would be shocked is telling of how the younger generations have changed of mentality.

I think that this is as convincing a reading as any that have come up so far, although if that was the intention it might have helped if there were some suggestion that the dreamer herself is in/has been in/has some connection to a same-sex relationship (or is having past-life flashbacks).

But the idea that this would read quite differently to people (like me) who see it primarily in the context of yuri storytelling as opposed to changes in Japanese social reality over time does make sense.

Pyoro posted:

Glad to see someone is actually looking at the pictures in this visual medium. You don't waste panels in a 8 page long story if it isn't significant and in this case, it's a very blatant hint.

I was too distracted by socks. Look at the ones the "heroine" wears. Then at the one we see of the one who killed herself.
...

Well. But reincarnation/past life makes sense, insofar such things make sense.

It's true that the furniture look like just out of the 80s. The TV set, the phone. And then, there's the flat screen on page 7: time skip.

She looks to young to be remembering something that happened 20 years ago, so reincarnation? Ghosts? This maybe warrants a supernatural tag.

It's obviously NOT a "repressed memories" thing.

The fashion is also consistant with early 80's japan.

Also...You realize the 80's were -30- years ago, right? (or more, for any year before '88)

I think reincarnation is the most likely, although ghosts or psychic powers could also be an explanation. It is definitely supernatural.

Also...You realize the 80's were -30- years ago, right? (or more, for any year before '88)

I think reincarnation is the most likely, although ghosts or psychic powers could also be an explanation. It is definitely supernatural.

While a supernatural explanation is a possibility, it could be something mundane. Maybe her reoccurring nightmare is just that: a reoccurring nightmare. It might just be some scenario she dreamed up. That seems like the obvious conclusion—if someone I knew told me about this nightmare they keep having about two women who were lovers in the 80s and one of them kills herself, I would never jump to "Those people actually existed and one of them was you in a previous life" as a first explanation.

There's no reason to even believe Mihoko and Kinuko even existed in the first place, much less that the dream is a memory from a previous life.

There's no reason to even believe Mihoko and Kinuko even existed in the first place, much less that the dream is a memory from a previous life.

In fact, we don’t even know if the protagonist believes in past lives or past life memories.

IF
story is Chapter 1: an intriguing opening
story is one-shot: WTF?

While a supernatural explanation is a possibility, it could be something mundane. Maybe her reoccurring nightmare is just that: a reoccurring nightmare. It might just be some scenario she dreamed up. That seems like the obvious conclusion—if someone I knew told me about this nightmare they keep having about two women who were lovers in the 80s and one of them kills herself, I would never jump to "Those people actually existed and one of them was you in a previous life" as a first explanation.

There's no reason to even believe Mihoko and Kinuko even existed in the first place, much less that the dream is a memory from a previous life.

You might think that way in real life, but applying that sort of skeptical thinking to manga is silly. The fact it's recurring and the big ending panel imply it's supposed to be more than just a dream.

Maybe the protagonist is a lesbian scientist who invented a time machine to go back in time to prevent the suicide of her lover but instead of sending her back in time it sent her forward, and a side-effect of the time travel is that she lost her memories, but not like amnesia—she just thought she was somebody else in the future. But her real memories keep creeping back into her dreams.

There’s as much evidence for that as for any of the other theories. And that theory might seem silly in real life, but, as I think we’d all agree, not silly for a manga.

^ No, if you think properly about how to interpret what the mangaka has chosen and not chosen to put in, if a more complicated, more specific interpretation is intended, then the mangaka would have put in things to lead the reader to that interpretation. The absence is therefore evidence against the more complicated explanation, so the balance of evidence for it is weaker than for a more natural interpretation.

last edited at Mar 13, 2018 9:14AM

Well, it's obvious that you think that the mangaka has included enough evidence for readers to arrive at a satisfactory interpretation; I do not. Let's leave it there.

And I believe the mangaka wrote this for a Japanese audience.

And I believe the mangaka wrote this for a Japanese audience.

Right--the theme of the generational difference between attitudes toward lesbianism is very convincing, as I said. The issue for me is that the story mechanism of how this experience of the past got into the dreams of the present-day character, and why this specific character is having those dreams, is not particularly clear.

I expect most people have had recurring dreams to some extent (I certainly have at times), and that strange sense of being familiar in a dream with someone or someplace you've never actually seen in real life is, according to reports and my own dreams, incredibly common.

If a Japanese audience would see such elements in this story and automatically assume, "Oh, those are past-life memories from her previous incarnation a generation ago," that's a very interesting thing to find out about such cultural differences.

damn

I'm certain it must be repressed memories, and here is my highly compelling argument why the apparent lack of aging is not important:

As everyone knows, japanese people stop aging past their mid 20's. They remain youthful all the way up to their 60's/70's at which point they weave a cocoon and enter hibernation for 4-6 weeks. After their metamorphosis is complete they emerge a fully formed ojii-san/obaa-chan, appearing as a small, turtle-like creature with a sunhat and cane. http://www.marycagle.com/letsspeakenglish/82-oh-my-baachan

I'm certain it must be repressed memories, and here is my highly compelling argument why the apparent lack of aging is not important:
...

A compelling argument. Will have to reconsider.

I'm certain it must be repressed memories, and here is my highly compelling argument why the apparent lack of aging is not important:

As everyone knows, japanese people stop aging past their mid 20's. They remain youthful all the way up to their 60's/70's at which point they weave a cocoon and enter hibernation for 4-6 weeks. After their metamorphosis is complete they emerge a fully formed ojii-san/obaa-chan, appearing as a small, turtle-like creature with a sunhat and cane. http://www.marycagle.com/letsspeakenglish/82-oh-my-baachan

Man, this cultural difference stuff is even more complicated than I thought.

^ No, if you think properly about how to interpret what the mangaka has chosen and not chosen to put in, if a more complicated, more specific interpretation is intended, then the mangaka would have put in things to lead the reader to that interpretation. The absence is therefore evidence against the more complicated explanation, so the balance of evidence for it is weaker than for a more natural interpretation.

Occam's Razor as applied to gay lady manga.

You also have to keep in mind that reincarnation is a central tenet of buddhism, which is much more common in Japan than it is in the west. I really think that's the intended implication, but I'm also fairly confident this author isn't done with these characters.

OH FUCKING HELL I DIDNT SEE THE FUCKING TRAGEDY TAG I WANT MY TEARS BACKK

Having dreams that could be memories... reincarnation is the best option here, besides, I think Mihoko killed herself too and the "reincarnation" started to have those dreams probably at the same age she (Mihoko) died. Something like: "please, don't let her do that again"?

We really need a sequel

Okay, it looks like my first attempt at a comment got eaten or transposed mistakenly to some other thread that I can't find...

Suicide and repressed memories?

Seems like it.

Basically being forced into an arranged marriage, but not willing to betray her love, she commits suicide instead

I'd go for this one

Yep seconding this