"It's fiction therefore nothing matters" is about the weakest excuse for an argument I can imagine.

The worst of Mochi so far. I could buy the whole "you let your neighbour use your bathroom for 6 months because their's was broken" since it seems like something like Mochi would do, but ending it there gives a different vibe, which as others point out, made the neighbour looked like a regular pervert instead of someone with a weird sense of love or something like that.

"It's fiction therefore nothing matters" is about the weakest excuse for an argument I can imagine.

It's not exactly what I said, but sorry, I guess? I can't see how I can explain why comedic stories shouldn't be taken too literally or too seriously - or how fictional stories shouldn't always be thought as real life situations, because stuff happening in stories can be really cool/entertaining in said stories, but stop being those if you look at it as real life situations. That's what I was trying (and failing?) to get across.

I can see why people are put off by this story, but, perhaps wrongly, I'm trying to suggest to them how they could look at it differently so they could maybe enjoy it - or at the very least, see why it really is comedy.

Edit I mean, we can argue about the moral side of the story, which is indeed very poor, I can see that, everybody can see that, but why would that make it a bad story?

last edited at Feb 1, 2018 5:51PM

I can see why people are put off by this story, but, perhaps wrongly, I'm trying to suggest to them how they could look at it differently so they could maybe enjoy it - or at the very least, why it really is comedy.

"You are not experiencing the correct emotion" is, I find, an argument that rarely goes anywhere fruitful.

I mean, people have the reactions they have. By the time you get around to discussing it, the reaction ship has already sailed.

A better way (IMHO) to approach these discussions is to simply describe your own internal landscape and your own reactions, without trying to contextualize it in terms of how other people reacted.

last edited at Feb 1, 2018 10:23AM

"its ok because its supposed to be funny" is just a poor excuse. This story has the potential and framework to do something, but the joke is ultimately "haha she's taking her stuff and using her bath, and WON'T ADMIT IT XD". Thats about as funny seeing someone make the main character of a harem anime steal a girl's underwear/molest her by accident. I'm not going to argue the moral side, although it does bug me, because this just wasn't funny.

So Mochi's new fetish are unapologetic abusive assholes?

Worry not folks, you'll like the next one . . . . probably(?).

greyscale posted:

How this even yuri or comedy?
I don't see Okuma-san has anything for Kotani-san who just a plain pervert and lying with almost poker face. No reaction, no blushing, she didn't even trying to make a joke about it, nothing. And reader should believe in her deep feelings or something? Sorry, but this just disgusting and creepy.

Sure if we assume all yuri stories start with both characters deeply in love, then the mods have a lot of work to do removing tags

Personally I found it funny enough. Again, the "victim" doesn't seem to care, so why should I? Her stuff has been disappearing for ages, and it's not enough to get her to actively do anything about it until the point where apparently ALL her underwear is gone. I mean, I'm supposed to take that seriously? Err, no. It's funny in the same way Monty Python fish slapping sketches are funny; I can be disgusted by the implied animal abuse or go along with the incredulity of the entire idea (in this case an underwear "thief" who just boldly enters through the front door and keeps doing what she's doing to the point of ridiculousness ...).

Also, I feel the end is very typical of Mochi. She always cuts off her chapters like this. Don't find that surprising at all.

Kotani regrets nothing!! And there's nothing to regret as she did nothing. Nothing at all!

And nothing says true love like stealing your beloved panties and using them! Not saying that she did it, because clearly she didn't nothing. Still, no regrets. Even if there's nothing done to feel regret for.

This was... really weird and kind of gross. I hope that it gets a continueation only because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Really? There was a comedy tag for a purpose

I have a bit of a hard time laughing at someone who abuses another persons hospitality to rob them of their clothes. I don’t think that because they’re both girls it makes it okay. But that’s a personal opinion.

Jeez. Mochi needs to try harder to impress Prince Charming/Princess over here.

I'm with the it's so totally absurd it's funny - though I hope a sequel will generate some yuri development.

Mochi you're going a bit too far off the wall these days, that other girl is just a creep lol

"its ok because its supposed to be funny" is just a poor excuse.

And because it's not really happening. Of course, that would not be okay in real life, I think I've repeated that in almost all of my posts.

[...] because this just wasn't funny.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, fellow forum member. I just happen to disagree.

"You are not experiencing the correct emotion" is, I find, an argument that rarely goes anywhere fruitful.

I had the feeling my phrasing, or perhaps the whole process, was wrong.

I mean, people have the reactions they have. By the time you get around to discussing it, the reaction ship has already sailed.

I guess. I'm just trying to understand why they can't enjoy it, clumsily, I'll admit. However, I don't agree with saying it's not comedy because it's morally wrong, this is the one thing I'll be stubborn about, thus the thing I won't talk about any more.

A better way (IMHO) to approach these discussions is to simply describe your own internal landscape and your own reactions, without trying to contextualize it in terms of how other people reacted.

That sounds good. I would continue on the subject of separating fiction from reality, but I'll be repeating myself and that doesn't seem to be interesting for many people. Sadly, but as usual, I guess I could conclude with to each their own.

last edited at Feb 1, 2018 6:00PM

I just wanna know where the punchline is.

I think any comedy above the family friendly kind does tend to rub people the wrong way since everyone comes into things from completely different perspectives. We are bound to have a multitude of reactions and this is naturally going to be a problem when we get people who like it with people that don't in a room together.

Sexual based jokes do tend to get the alarms going off in the back of my head too. The humor of girls molesting girls in Hayate X Blade always bugged me but that's my issue I suppose.

this was alright I guess. and no incest so I actually get to read one thing from this author again.

I mean, people have the reactions they have. By the time you get around to discussing it, the reaction ship has already sailed.

I guess. I'm just trying to understand why they can't enjoy it, clumsily, I'll admit.

But are you really trying to understand their viewpoint? The things you've written so far in this thread haven't come across that way to me. They come across more like "Guys guys GUYS, you're all having the TOTALLY WRONG reaction here. Can't you SEE that?"

I read the comic and basically shrugged. I'm not outraged. It clearly exists in that bizarre RomCom universe where shit that would make you a creepy weirdo in the real world is instead coded to make a character endearing and adorable. Those are the overt signals the media gives us about the character, which guides our interpretation of the character. I see it, I recognize it, yadda yadda yadda.

But we are also in the midst of a cultural change, where a lot of our RomCom tropes are being re-examined. John Cusack's character in Say Anything was considered romantic 30 years ago, but he'd probably be considered a pushy, obnoxious jerk with boundary issues now. Same thing with this comic; the tropes themselves are being criticized, not merely Mochi au Lait's specific implementation of the tropes in this comic.

However, I don't agree with saying it's not comedy because it's morally wrong, this is the one thing I'll be stubborn about, thus the thing I won't talk about any more.

I agree that it's a comedy. I just don't think "it's a comedy" is a "Get out of criticism free" card.

I mean, Amos & Andy was a comedy.

That sounds good. I would continue on the subject of separating fiction from reality, but I'll be repeating myself and that doesn't seem to be interesting for many people. Sadly, but as usual, I guess I could conclude with to each their own.

But again, this sounds less like a genuine attempt to engage people and find out what they think, and more of a back-handed way of telling them they're reacting wrong. "*I* don't have any problem separating fiction from reality. Why can't you people do it?"

last edited at Feb 1, 2018 6:55PM

Plot twist: they're NOT sisters. I know, I know, shocking.

I read the comic and basically shrugged. I'm not outraged. It clearly exists in that bizarre RomCom universe where shit that would make you a creepy weirdo in the real world is instead coded to make a character endearing and adorable.

I think this is where the whole thing falls apart to be honest. It seems like Mochi wanted to code the character as a bit of a buffoon where she doesn't realize she admitted her guilt and so forth. Lots of characters like that in manga who are coded, as you said, to be someone to not take seriously.

Trouble is, Mochi didn't actually do the coding part. She just presented someone who mooches, steals, and lies about it and...just let it lie there. So it ends up creepy instead. Not in an "I'm repulsed" way but a "Why did I waste my time with that" way.

Thinking about it, maybe this is missing Kotani admitting that she sniffed Okuma's panties.

Let you who have not borrowed your neighbor's tub for six months and stolen all her underwear cast the first stone

KOTANI DID NOTHING WRONG

I read the comic and basically shrugged. I'm not outraged. It clearly exists in that bizarre RomCom universe where shit that would make you a creepy weirdo in the real world is instead coded to make a character endearing and adorable.

I think this is where the whole thing falls apart to be honest. It seems like Mochi wanted to code the character as a bit of a buffoon where she doesn't realize she admitted her guilt and so forth. Lots of characters like that in manga who are coded, as you said, to be someone to not take seriously.

Trouble is, Mochi didn't actually do the coding part. She just presented someone who mooches, steals, and lies about it and...just let it lie there. So it ends up creepy instead. Not in an "I'm repulsed" way but a "Why did I waste my time with that" way.

yeah, this sums it up. The story feels unfinished, with the joke that "She stole her stuff and won't admit it. She REALLY won't admit it" being the big payoff. It was a flat line that leaves a feeling of unpleasantness if you start thinking about it. Then you come to the discussion board and half the people either agree or are dismissing people that see fault in it as being overly sensitive, not understanding it, or wanting a perfect yuri story.

It's Japanese manzai humor, one person says something ridiculous and the other corrects it. You guys may know it from your Japanese Annie Mays, mangos or Touhou M-1 Grand Prix. It usually ends with "so you were the one stealing my panties, iikagen ni shiro! Thank you very much, audience" after 30 minutes of denying it. I'm sure it's very very funny if you're Japanese.

last edited at Feb 1, 2018 11:06PM

Marion Diabolito posted:

Let you who have not borrowed your neighbor's tub for six months and stolen all her underwear cast the first stone

well, when you put it that way i LOVED it