From what I have heard, in the novels, all of the girls in Strawberry Panic! get married to men after graduation, but that needs verified

A lot of that does occur, after all that's the whole purpose of Astrea Hill.

By "a lot" you mean "you assume". While it is a fairly reasonable assumption, the only person who was actually mentioned in canon was Miyuki. Her marriage was arranged by her parents when she was still a child, though, so it does not represent her own sexuality (the marriage is het, obviously) or choices. She is clearly in love with Shizuma (who even taunts her over this, if memory serves), and her feelings are not presented as just a phase.

lol strawberry panic and marimite is the biggest yuri bait in history, I hate those show.

lol strawberry panic and marimite is the biggest yuri bait in history, I hate those show.

4 canonical, openly displayed yuri couples (and by openly displayed, I mean up to and including sex), plus few more female characters in love with some of the girls of said couples -------> yuri bait...

Not going into the subjective liking or disliking of the show, but I think you are misusing the term 'yuri bait' here.

lol strawberry panic and marimite is the biggest yuri bait in history, I hate those show.

4 canonical, openly displayed yuri couples (and by openly displayed, I mean up to and including sex), plus few more female characters in love with some of the girls of said couples -------> yuri bait...

Not going into the subjective liking or disliking of the show, but I think you are misusing the term 'yuri bait' here.

Not going to argue too but it's yuri bait based on my logical view from my subjective preference. I just want to say the hype doesn't live it up it suck for me, only old yuri fans who's fine with het and bisexuality like it I guess.

only old yuri fans who's fine with het and bisexuality like it I guess

And once again, while not going into liking/disliking, this is also something that does not stand, not really. There is no het or bisexuality depicted, apart from a passing mention about Miyuki's arranged marriage (and she is not even one of the main characters). That is literally it. I think that you are reading too much into what Gwennie wrote, at least regarding the het/bisexuality thing. She was just making an assumption. Similarly, I could also assume, given how over-the-top-gay-and-no-one-bats-an-eye the show is (since it is basically a parody of series like Marimite), this all takes place in an alternate reality where gay is the norm, and people like Miyuki's parents are in the minority.

@gwennie-chan Interesting analysis of yuri and shoujo ai although I somewhat disagree with your assertion that westerners use the term to mean "light yuri". To me separating types of yuri is pointless, and I label all female/female romance/sexuality as yuri.

As for this doujin, I found it quite cute and well worth the read.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins posted:

only old yuri fans who's fine with het and bisexuality like it I guess

And once again, while not going into liking/disliking, this is also something that does not stand, not really. There is no het or bisexuality depicted, apart from a passing mention about Miyuki's arranged marriage (and she is not even one of the main characters). That is literally it. I think that you are reading too much into what Gwennie wrote, at least regarding the het/bisexuality thing. She was just making an assumption. Similarly, I could also assume, given how over-the-top-gay-and-no-one-bats-an-eye the show is (since it is basically a parody of series like Marimite), this all takes place in an alternate reality where gay is the norm, and people like Miyuki's parents are in the minority.

Yeah I'm making a reasonable assumption that is pretty much the only way for those girls in Japan, then and now. Western views heavily discount the weight of societal duty found in Asian and other communal cultures. Feelings don't really mean anything. You're expected to get married (het), have children, and/or work yourself to death. Many modern Japanese are bucking this tradition, but much of that is because of the economic culture of Japan currently, just like how Millennial birthrates so far are underwhelming in the US. Societal duty gives fuck all about your feelings or orientation. You are expected to do your societal duty regardless if you want to or not, and for many well-to-do families, this comes with a conform or be cut off message.

Sakura Cartelet posted:

@gwennie-chan Interesting analysis of yuri and shoujo ai although I somewhat disagree with your assertion that westerners use the term to mean "light yuri". To me separating types of yuri is pointless, and I label all female/female romance/sexuality as yuri.

As for this doujin, I found it quite cute and well worth the read.

True. Which is why I label it "sapphic" in general. However, just because some Westerners don't separate the terms doesn't mean that the separation is by-and-large a Western-only thing.

is it even yuri? I see nothing but shoujo ai tho

Same thing. Yuri is the original and official term for all girlxgirl stuff. From what I recall, shoujo ai is just a term coined by the west to signify a lesbian relationship that focuses more on the platonic and "chaste" type of relationship while outright avoiding the explicit and steamy lesbian realtionships. If we were to go by western standards, then Strawberry Panic would probably be considered shoujo ai as most of the relationships there are sisterly and "chaste," with characters kissing and hugging each other but nothing more. That is, assuming I'm remembering Strawberry Panic correctly. Been years since I last watched the anime adaption.

With that said, if you look at the tags that are present on Dynasty you'll notice a "shoujo ai" tag doesn't exist. If this one-shot did need another tag then it might need the subtext tag as there isn't any obvious yuri. There's implied yuri, and depending on how you want to interpret this you could even say there's a yuri crush that the teacher has on her student. Course, I think yuri crush might be stretching it a bit, so perhaps keeping the yuri tag where it is would be best and just add the subtext tag next to it.

As long as the aggregator sites keep labelling things "shoujo-ai" this is going to persist in the West, since a good number of the scanlated works are read by people exclusively on these sites, despite everyone's best efforts to dissuade them. So really, the term (and the arguing about) "shoujo-ai" in the meaning of "romantic love between girls that doesn't advance (on screen) beyond maybe holding hands" is going to persist until something more satisfying memes itself into the collective consciousness.

As far as this work is concerned though, I don't see any yuri or shoujo-ai or verifiable signs of lesbianism at all. I'd personally suggest dropping the yuri tag and replacing it with subtext, which seems a lot more supportable.

As far as this work is concerned though, I don't see any yuri or shoujo-ai or verifiable signs of lesbianism at all. I'd personally suggest dropping the yuri tag and replacing it with subtext, which seems a lot more supportable.

I agree with this, even the conflict back in school was presented so vaguely, us guessing it had something to do with the main character being outed is just that, guess work. It is reasonable, given the author and genre of her works, but going purely by what we are shown, it is still pretty much left for us to guess and speculate. I am not really sure what was even the point of all this vagueness.

Gwennie

Not what I was actually going at. True, as I wrote before, such assumptions on your part are reasonable, but I think you missed the appropriate work with them. "Strawberry Panic!" is an over-the-top parody not really grounded in our reality, so reading realistic social issues into it is kind of missing the mark. Basically, you wrote "Astraea Hill" where you should have written "Lillian Academy", especially since one is a clear parody of the other (making it actually far more likely the girls are together for good in the discussed work).

There's definitely something going on between these two. I think the tags should stay as is.

these two parts were left untranslated, what does it say?

Top panel points out that she's just being flattering, bottom says: "and a coffee too, please"

I agree with this, even the conflict back in school was presented so vaguely, us guessing it had something to do with the main character being outed is just that, guess work. It is reasonable, given the author and genre of her works, but going purely by what we are shown, it is still pretty much left for us to guess and speculate. I am not really sure what was even the point of all this vagueness.

The dodgy translation may obscure it, but that's definitely what it's about. In Japanese it's only vague to an extent where it's not treating the reader as dumb.

I agree with this, even the conflict back in school was presented so vaguely, us guessing it had something to do with the main character being outed is just that, guess work. It is reasonable, given the author and genre of her works, but going purely by what we are shown, it is still pretty much left for us to guess and speculate. I am not really sure what was even the point of all this vagueness.

Tomoka often made it clear to the teacher that the issue was a matter of love or romance. She teases the teacher for not getting it due to the teacher's lack of experience in love.

I think the implicit nature of the story happened for two reasons; the story is complex, but being a one-shot there isn't room for the story to be fully fleshed out, and that the focus is more on Tomoka's interactions with the teacher and on how Tomoka felt about the situation.

last edited at Jan 1, 2018 7:08AM

LOL, if you're so weak that you kill yourself over that, then really should kill yourself. "If a person doesn't fit the norm" most people don't give a shit about that, lololol, and reputation? Lololol, as long as you're not a complete asshole or dumbass then reputation doesn't mean shit most of the time

Oooooh, someone's weak willed so they should just commit suicide. Must be nice to a live a sheltered life you redacted. Please, people have gotten bullied over far less. Not everyone has the strength to crawl out of their own little hell. It takes a lot of guts and will power to move forward once you are stuck in that bottomless pit. Everyone has their moments of weakness. People aren't infallible no matter how tough some might seem. Story takes place in Japan, where social pressure is stupidly high. You can act like some hot shit rebel, but what you do and say can have an effect on your family and friends. Japan is a culture that places very heavy emphasis about not causing trouble for others. How do you not cause trouble? You conform the fuck to what is perceived as "normal." If you have great peers who can accept you for what you are, totally awesome. If you are "different" and this is found out by your friends/coworkers/parents? They either try to "fix" you, shun you, to bully you. Because you are "different." For fucks' sake, I live in a family that tries to "fix" me for being me.

That sounds like a load of shit, lol.

Fluffy Fuyumi posted:

That sounds like a load of shit, lol.

Nah, the only load of shit around here is what's dribbling out of your mouth. Saying people should just commit suicide is exceedingly shitty and shows a complete lack of empathy and ability to understand the plights of others. Reflects quite poorly on your character.

Cut out the edgelord crap, Fluffy Fuyumi.

I don't see yuri nor are we to believe it exists in this story but I guess a story of overcoming obstacles? Maybe implied future relationship between the tutor and the student. It built up well but felt rushed at the end idk.

Fluffy Fuyumi go crawl back to your home under a bridge.

It could be yuri, but it doesn't have to be. The text is somewhat ambiguous (when I read it, I assumed the girl's problem was that she had confessed to a friend or otherwise come out and was afraid of being bullied, but that's extrapolation).

If you look at extra-textual clues, then the fact that it was written by Ohsawa Yayoi and published in Yuri Hime, then that pretty strongly indicates that it's yuri. Or at least yuri enough for their standards.

In general, I don't think the extra-textual clues should be taken as definitive, since the work itself should stand on its own. But for purposes of tagging and categorization, maybe that's enough.

Fluffy Fuyumi posted:

That sounds like a load of shit, lol.

Nah, the only load of shit around here is what's dribbling out of your mouth. Saying people should just commit suicide is exceedingly shitty and shows a complete lack of empathy and ability to understand the plights of others. Reflects quite poorly on your character.

Whatever floats your boat, lol.

On another note, this one was pretty disappointing, not yuri in my opinion, just friendship.

I don't know why it couldn't be yuri, page 31 and 32 Chizuru seems quite flustered. Page 29 Chizuru gets dramatic beauty upgrade briefly from Tomoka's POV (although that might be more about her being happy Chizuru took what she said to heart.)

Not having the raws or Japanese literacy I can't confirm or reject the possible mistranslation. This version still makes sense to me though. Rather than being bullied, it seems to say Tomoka is at fault for spreading a rumor which hurt "that person" after carelessly saying something. Her other friends then ostracized her for having done so, even if it was unintentional. Nagisa, who shows concern for Tomoka at the diner, might very well be "that person" or a more distant concerned friend. What happens specifically otherwise is unclear, but the strongest feeling I get out of this is Tomoka's regret and the importance of Chizuru's genuine care.

Or even if her friends didn't ostracize her to purposefully hurt her, something about what she did made them uneasy, angry, etc. etc. There's many possible specific interpretations but how it affects Tomoka is clearest.

I was wondering what the title might refer to, and could only find a stats thing? According to https://arxiv.org/abs/1610.00422 the BLUE method "combine[s] measurement from different experiments... tak[ing] into account individual uncertainties and their correlations." Make of that what you will, seems like it's a stretch to connect though. XD

Overall this story feels complex. I like it. It captures that real life haziness of the feelings correlated with actions and almost unconscious emotions behind what we consciously think and say.

Fluffy Fuyumi posted:

Whatever floats your boat, lol.

Exquisite non-sequitur argument there. That wasn't even remotely relevant to what I said, lol.

Fluffy Fuyumi posted:

That sounds like a load of shit, lol.

Nah, the only load of shit around here is what's dribbling out of your mouth. Saying people should just commit suicide is exceedingly shitty and shows a complete lack of empathy and ability to understand the plights of others. Reflects quite poorly on your character.

Whatever floats your boat, lol.

When you realize you have nothing remotely smart to argue back "lol".

Why are you trying to get this going again? It's been stopped for almost three weeks.