Every fictional storyworld sets up its own value system. Sometimes that's the same as in the real world, sometimes it's entirely different, and sometimes its the same in some respects and different in others. In the New Game world, working to make the best, most fun game you can is the first priority; work procedures are important as the necessary means to that end, but ultimately secondary to the main goal. Naru doesn't get that yet, and she needs to. (I strongly suspect that she will.)

It's always surprising to me how many people see the story that they want to be there rather than the actual text that is there.

Still, a game designer needs to be able to polish their "blueprint" before having the programmers work on it and not just have them rework all of it after every instance for adjustements that could have been noticed beforehand with just a little bit more time spent on it. In this case, it's kinda like Hajime is an architect who draw a house, then once built, noticed that it was missing a window, then once the window has been added, realized that the size is wrong. ^^;

That she wanted to add something more to the mini-game isn't exactly the issue here. That she asks for a new version before taking the time to figure out as many of the changes that are required and how they might impact the mini-game and the rest of the game is.

Especially since it'll need to be integrated to the rest of the game, so every delay to its completion will have repercutions on the whole game's dev timetable.

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 9:25AM

I'm not sure comparing it to architecture is the best example. Even the best game designers don't always notice everything they could do to improve design until after they've actually tried it out for themselves. And Hajime is still learning.

That's why it seems a safe bet that they were likely given a deadline with a lot of extra leeway in the case they go over.

Her "status" shouldnt mean a damn thing since she is 100% correct. Hajime needed to be told that she had to do her damn job so that the team could move forward. Hajime constantly switching specs while stringing along a coworker is the problem that needed to be addressed, not Naru's attitude. If it were then Umiko would have reprimanded her instead of agreeing

No, that's where you are fundamentally wrong. It is in fact 100% irrelevant if she is right or wrong. A lowly intern on probation getting cocky with hired full time employees and on top of that not being able to work with a team means your out. In any company that relies heavily on teamwork like a gaming company "solo players" are simply not needed. I get it that you really like Naru, but realistically spoken: if she doesn't get her act together no company would hire her after her probation.

Except she wouldn't. She is not the designer, a poorly designed event would solely fall on Hajime. Do you know what would reflect badly on Naru? Only getting one event done in a 3 month span.

Again: I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Naru has exactly ONE assignment to do at the moment. Her utmost priority is to do THIS assignment an nothing else. Sure, a poorly designed event would fall on Hajime, but I don't see a single reason why not getting done more work in 3 Months would fall on her if the company doesn't assign more work to her. In fact if her colleagues-to-be evaluate her work and all they can tell is that Naru tried to rush through every work assigned to her and not caring about the finished product just to get it done, instead of her finishing her given task(s) with the quality the company is know for - I don't know if THAT'S an evaluation Naru likes to have.

---

Still, a game designer needs to be able to polish their "blueprint" before having the programmers work on it and not just have them rework all of it after every instance for adjustements that could have been noticed beforehand with just a little bit more time spent on it. In this case, it's kinda like Hajime is an architect who draw a house, then once built, noticed that it was missing a window, then once the window has been added, realized that the size is wrong. ^^;

That she wanted to add something more to the mini-game isn't exactly the issue here. That she asks for a new version before taking the time to figure out as many of the changes that are required and how they might impact the mini-game and the rest of the game is.

Especially since it'll need to be integrated to the rest of the game, so every delay to its completion will have repercutions on the whole game's dev timetable.

To be honest: Hajime felt something is "wrong" with the minievent but couldn't point out what exactly. BUT Naru is the first who found the "error" of the game having only 2 characters playing. Despite the fact it felt wrong to her, she never told anyone and just programmed it anyway. Afterwards, after telling Hajime and co about it she complains about programming it all again. That's not really how teamwork's done.

The second Problem wasn't really a thing before they added more characters. Even Hajime didn't found anything wrong with the second version until Momo mentioned Peco's face being visible. And right after that the conversation between Naru and Momo shows that she really doesn't care about the event anyway and just wants to get it done. Like I've said before: Naru doesn't work for the game, she works solely for her evaluation.

---

Even the best game designers don't always notice everything they could do to improve design until after they've actually tried it out for themselves.

That's right. And if we think back when Nene was debugging the game: she not only found bugs in the game but she also found many problems with the lore which "should" normally be found by the ones making the game. But i think it's the same phenomenon like writing text - if you work with something for too long, you don't notice small errors anymore.

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 10:25AM

Hazuki says it straight out--games evolve as you work on them and get new ideas. And Umiko says that it would be great if every possible kink or issue in the finished product was foreseen from the start, "but that's not usually the way it goes."

I don't think Naru's tone or her failure to respect the hierarchy is the problem, it's that her focus is on the wrong things. Hazuki says, "You've made it into something really fun. Good job." That's what success looks like at Eagle Jump.

Hazuki says it straight out--games evolve as you work on them and get new ideas. And Umiko says that it would be great if every possible kink or issue in the finished product was foreseen from the start, "but that's not usually the way it goes."

I don't think Naru's tone or her failure to respect the hierarchy is the problem, it's that her focus is on the wrong things. Hazuki says, "You've made it into something really fun. Good job." That's what success looks like at Eagle Jump.

This forum needs a like-button...

I absolutely have to agree with you.

ixlone posted:

I was just wondering why people are still defending her...

Then I'm like, "Oh, we haven't released those chapters yet..."

That's very spoilery, but I guess now I understand the hard treatment so early ... No room for discussion if all the facts aren't shared equally.
I guess I'll just wait and see... Hopefully no one will come and say "See?! I TOLD YOU!!"

ixlone posted:

I was just wondering why people are still defending her...

Then I'm like, "Oh, we haven't released those chapters yet..."

That's very spoilery, but I guess now I understand the hard treatment so early ... No room for discussion if all the facts aren't shared equally.
I guess I'll just wait and see... Hopefully no one will come and say "See?! I TOLD YOU!!"

To be fair, she was mean to Nene, the best girl, so I haven't liked her much since then!

I didn't like Momo much either. But her VA in the anime won me over and chapter 57 warmed me up to her, too.

I would hate her too if she mess with Hifumin or Aoba. When it comes to Momo I have absolutely 0 reasons to dislike her, she is just awkward and when she was confronted to Aoba her feelings were mixed between admiration and rivalry and that's good, the main character needs a rival to grow up and Kou is just waay too far ahead.

Anyway, last thing I have to say... When it comes to these new characters I'm judging as if they were the main characters trying to fit in, I want to give them the chance.

To be fair, she was mean to Nene, the best girl, so I haven't liked her much since then!

Indeed. An unforgivable crime.

Here's one good thing about Naru that no one else mentions: She's the one that brushes Momo's hair! Without her, Momo's hair doesn't get brushed!

That warmed my heart (mainly about Momo being a spoiled baby).

Naru and Momo's living situation is comically domestic.

I was just wondering why people are still defending her...

Then I'm like, "Oh, we haven't released those chapters yet..."

Those chapters.... I will be waiting :3

Since when (Just kidding I know exactly when) manga that forum is about cute girl doing cute thing and yuri crush turn in to a serious work place discussion and people put hate to a character.

PS. It's not wrong for you to dislike Naru (And you can't force me to hate her in the same way), but I miss the time that this forum have a lot of funny cheerful comment and even some sort of meme.

last edited at Sep 2, 2017 11:35AM

I would hate her too if she mess with Hifumin or Aoba. When it comes to Momo I have absolutely 0 reasons to dislike her, she is just awkward and when she was confronted to Aoba her feelings were mixed between admiration and rivalry and that's good, the main character needs a rival to grow up and Kou is just waay too far ahead.

Yeah if Momo dare to mess with them. She deserve that. Until now I absolutely have no reason at all to hate her, I think Aoba and Momo relation is similar to friend-rival based relation from the old anime. Naruto and Sasuke? maybe but in a lot softer way

Anyway, last thing I have to say... When it comes to these new characters I'm judging as if they were the main characters trying to fit in, I want to give them the chance.

I also want to give Naru a chance. Momo already proved in the last chapter and episode that she a lovable character. she are now 4th on my junior list. that mean I not include Ko, Rin and so on
In the whole entire series and until now, still ZERO character get hated by me YET. Need to wait and see though, hope things will end well like NEWGAME! always did.

Here's one good thing about Naru that no one else mentions: She's the one that brushes Momo's hair! Without her, Momo's hair doesn't get brushed!

That warmed my heart (mainly about Momo being a spoiled baby).

If Naru never exist Momo will never made it this far though. That MomoXNaru chapter is very cute btw XD

PS. Didn't want to double post but I need to separate the fact

last edited at Sep 2, 2017 12:20AM

New chapter already huh what a sneaky release, kind of unexpected. I just randomly wander in doki fansub and chapter 59 pop out.

Nene finally got an actual work. Congrats! Even that seems to be boring for her. XD She even get praised that she have an excellent skill, Good for her.

last edited at Sep 2, 2017 7:00AM

Chapter 59... I'm surprised they didn't add the BOING or some soft SFX when Nenechi bends her head against Umiko... You know how much I would've screamed? maybe I could've been in the way to the hospital by now with a heart stroke

Yes, but with one crucial difference: She is just a lowly student on evaluation, trying to get into a company, while Umiko can tell Hajime or whoever she likes what she's thinking of changes because they're on the same level in the company hierarchy. If an intern in my company would be this cocky towards my employees, no matter their skill, after 3 months their out.

I'm sorry but that's just piss poor management then. I get the idea of seniority but it that is what you go on when a new employee rightfully calls out a veteran then you're just cementing the issue. You need new blood to mix up things and try to find new solutions to old problems, you don't do that by firing every new face that has the balls to call out issues. Hell, companies like Amazon encourage new employees to have a spine and voice their opinions and frustrations.

This entire discussion/argument is probably giving those of us who lived and worked in Japan deja vu :)

Edit: Also our discussion is turning more Shirobako-esque because so are the manga and anime. And Shirobako is, for me, an unrivalled classic. That said, Shirobako was true to its tone, and New Game! needs to be, too. It's overdue for a balancing burst of slice-of-life comedy. If Shirobako was a dramedy, maybe New Game! is a comedrama :)

last edited at Sep 2, 2017 6:48PM

Shirobako

I actually had to look up the plot of Shirobako again because I forgot what it was about. I think that was too much drama in my opinion so I decided against watching it when it came out.

But nice to see that Nene is making progress. Even if I don't really understand why Naru gives her the idea of placing special effects into a mace. Random building would be hard enough for Nene already at her current level.

last edited at Sep 2, 2017 7:35PM

Wow these new characters aren't base-breaking at all are they?

That last strip has probably the single highest concentration of smirking Umiko thus far, it's great.

Even if I don't really understand why Naru gives her the idea of placing special effects into a mace. Random building would be hard enough for Nene already at her current level.

She didn't, really. She was more just generally noting "uh sure, SFX are nice to have" in response to Nene's rather out-of-left-field comment about breathing fire - and the latter, true to form, took that line of thought and ran away with it.

It's kinda interesting how the mere idea got Nene fired up all over again though, and while the poorly-thought jumble of fancy additional features of course didn't result in much - small wonder already given she'd only poked at them for a few days - she apparently managed to untangle the remaining bugs ("FWOOM!") in the base game on the side.

...
...Nene's going to turn into one of those programmers who leave all kinds of unused assets and unfinished features in the files for modders to scratch their heads over won't she?

Still not sure why people hate the newbies. One of them is a tsundere (The good kind) for crying aloud. The other is headstrong, but can also be playful, at times.

last edited at Sep 2, 2017 10:18PM

I don't think the new characters are necessarily hated--the Industrial-Strength Cute Chap. 57 suggests that eventually they'll integrate into the group just fine (with some bumps along the way, no doubt)--but there certainly was a lot of (justified, IMO) pushback against the idea that Chap. 58 is all about Naru bringing a new professional attitude to Eagle Jump that the company has been lacking (as opposed to showing a person who thinks the job is about following orders rather than making fun games).

Still not sure why people hate the newbies. One of them is a tsundere (The good kind) for crying aloud. The other is headstrong, but can also be playful, at times.

Yeah especially Momo she do nothing wrong, good that recent anime episode make her look a lot better in those people eye. Naru? Well people who have nene as they "best girl" will mostly hate her also some people seem to hate her attitude.

They both have they good side but really few people point that out. I never even dislike newbie all the time even those things happen.

Still trust NewGame! that every conflict will get resolved. Like every time. It's just the matter of when.

I miss this forum in the old time where conversation here is funny and relaxing.

Every fictional storyworld sets up its own value system. Sometimes that's the same as in the real world, sometimes it's entirely different, and sometimes its the same in some respects and different in others. In the New Game world, working to make the best, most fun game you can is the first priority; work procedures are important as the necessary means to that end, but ultimately secondary to the main goal. Naru doesn't get that yet, and she needs to. (I strongly suspect that she will.)

It's always surprising to me how many people see the story that they want to be there rather than the actual text that is there.

Really good comment here. People superimpose their own thoughts and feelings onto the characters they read about a lot, rather than accept what's being shown to them on the page. The mistake is in assuming.

Her entire assignment is to make a minigame to be included in the final product. That is the entirety of what her hiring will be evaluated by. If the minigame ends up being too uninteresting and is cut from the game, she would have failed that assignment in the most literal sense.

Do you not understand what a programmer is? She would only be evaluated on how well programmed the event is, not how well designed it is. Nene is being evaluated on a game that isn't even going to be in the final product.

I don't know where you're getting this "only getting one project done is going to ruin her evaluation" thing. At no point did anyone say they'd be graded on how much work they get done. Just on how well they perform on their assigned task.

Of course they are going to evaluated on how much work they can do. If they are wasting 3 months on a mini game then they will be seen as a slow team that will have nothing but delays. If they didn't care about time then no publisher would work for the company since it would take half a decade for them to put out a single game.

No, that's where you are fundamentally wrong. It is in fact 100% irrelevant if she is right or wrong. A lowly intern on probation getting cocky with hired full time employees and on top of that not being able to work with a team means your out. In any company that relies heavily on teamwork like a gaming company "solo players" are simply not needed. I get it that you really like Naru, but realistically spoken: if she doesn't get her act together no company would hire her after her probation.

It definitely matters 100% whether she is right or wrong. If you are prioritizing seniority over an efficient work schedule then you're a piss poor manager. You keep saying that no company would hire her when I have worked at companies that highly encourage her attitude. This idea that seniors need to be respected when they do something wrong does nothing but cement issues and cause nothing but problems.

Again: I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Naru has exactly ONE assignment to do at the moment. Her utmost priority is to do THIS assignment an nothing else. Sure, a poorly designed event would fall on Hajime, but I don't see a single reason why not getting done more work in 3 Months would fall on her if the company doesn't assign more work to her. In fact if her colleagues-to-be evaluate her work and all they can tell is that Naru tried to rush through every work assigned to her and not caring about the finished product just to get it done, instead of her finishing her given task(s) with the quality the company is know for - I don't know if THAT'S an evaluation Naru likes to have.

What are you on about? You are not making any sense what so ever. Naru has only been given one assignment because she hasn't finished the first one she was given. Now a 1 month long assignment is turning into 3 months, just for one little mini-game. Since they gave her only a 1 month deadline Umiko planned on giving her more work right after but now there are going to be further delays. And what you are going on about rushing? She did her work just fine, she didn't rush anything. In fact it was Hajime who rushed, came up with a poorly designed event and is now delaying the game in order to fix it. Naru is a great programmer and does her job well, it's Hajime that is doing a poor job that is causing delays.

To be honest: Hajime felt something is "wrong" with the minievent but couldn't point out what exactly. BUT Naru is the first who found the "error" of the game having only 2 characters playing. Despite the fact it felt wrong to her, she never told anyone and just programmed it anyway. Afterwards, after telling Hajime and co about it she complains about programming it all again. That's not really how teamwork's done.

That's exactly how team work is done. You keep going on about Naru not being a productive part of the team but it's Hajime who is stringing a coworker for months on one mini-game.

The second Problem wasn't really a thing before they added more characters. Even Hajime didn't found anything wrong with the second version until Momo mentioned Peco's face being visible. And right after that the conversation between Naru and Momo shows that she really doesn't care about the event anyway and just wants to get it done. Like I've said before: Naru doesn't work for the game, she works solely for her evaluation.

Yes, she is working for her evaluation because she hasn't actually been hired. Why do you think it's so wrong of her to care about whether she actually gets hired? She is there to show off her programming skills, if she is being forced to work on one mini-game she can't do that. Even if the mini-game is the best in the game Hajime will get all the credit, Naru doesn't get anything out of the mini-game being designed well.

last edited at Sep 3, 2017 2:07AM