You do not get to decide what this comic /is/ because you are not the author.

Actually, we do. Let me remind you all that Tomboy wasn't originally intended as a transgender movie, but it ended up consagrated as so by the transmasculine community. I studied communication theory in college a while back, and one thing I've learned was that the author has absolutely no control over how their work is going to be interpreted by others (see the lovely book "The Open Work" by Umberto Eco for a reference).

"Funny how you talk about disagreeing, but try your absolute hardest to pass your opinion that some fanart is insulting a fictional character/series as a fact."

I didn't want to post anymore, but you give me no choice.

If only there was a single thing in my reasoning that wasn't based on facts and also not perfectly valid...

I wish "Random faceless girl isn't an LLS character" wasn't a fact... but it is.
I wish "LLS character is depicted as having sex with an original character" wasn't a fact... but it is.
I wish "The artist could have actually drawn something actually related to LLS but chose not to" wasn't a fact... but it is.

Put all these together and you have the perfect example of a derivative work that due to the artist's incompetence completely fails at being what it should have been... a derivative work.
You see, when you can't even respect something as fundamental to an original work as it's finite set of characters is, you've failed from the get-go.

Any original work can be seen as a finite set of attributes, like it's characters, locations, etc...
For characters in original work A, it would be something as simple as:

A = { "Characters of A" = { a, b, c, d }, "Locations of A", ... }

Now consider a derivative work of A, let's call it A'. A' would look like this:

A' = { "Characters of A' " = { a, b, c, d, e' }, "Locations of A", ... }

Now what everyone is trying to convince me of and trying to make it an opinion rather than a fact is that A = A' which is FALSE. It will never be true, no matter what you or I think. You have to be completely deluded to think the content of A is the same as A', they are objectively not the same. There is no reason to include "e' " or any number of other elements that don't belong to A in your derivative work and break any connection to the source material unless you're either incompetent, stupid or have ulterior motives.

If you read all this and still think this is all just an opinion and not actually purely logical, you're hopeless.
It's the reason why some artists never draw such content and also why it's not accepted at series' events. Things that don't belong just don't belong, period. It's a fact, not an opinion.

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 2:15PM

Someone go ask Pito.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 2:22PM

"Funny how you talk about disagreeing, but try your absolute hardest to pass your opinion that some fanart is insulting a fictional character/series as a fact."

I didn't want to post anymore, but you give me no choice.

You always have a choice.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

The tags Pito read, and approved of, were the ones on that tumblr. Which has a transgender tag, but NOT a futanari one.

The problem is people trying very hard to take offense where none was intended. This work was tagged futanari by the author. Tagging it futanari on this site (and not yuri) is perfectly sensible, because it describes the story most accurately.

intent doesnt decide whether something is shitty

It decides whether the correct action is frothing at the mouth and flipping out, or politely correcting someone. But you do you. You seem to be enjoying yourself.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

The tags Pito read, and approved of, were the ones on that tumblr. Which has a transgender tag, but NOT a futanari one.

I think the only reason the Futanari tag was put up based from my understanding was because of the translation on one of their tweets and their history of making Futanari comics.

Though can you send a link if ever on where it was approved? I might have missed it and I'll put it up on the other post I did to clear things up then.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

The tags Pito read, and approved of, were the ones on that tumblr. Which has a transgender tag, but NOT a futanari one.

I think the only reason the Futanari tag was put up based from my understanding was because of the translation on one of their tweets and their history of making Futanari comics.

Though can you send a link if ever on where it was approved? I might have missed it and I'll put it up on the other post I did to clear things up then.

Pito linked to the tumblr release on their twitter, and was in contact with the translators about the content of the doujin, including the tags.

Keep in mind that there is a language barrier; Pito described the work in korean. I personally feel it would be better to use the tags used on the tumblr, which got the approval of the original.

Which means yuri and transgender, not futanari.

Pretty certain meanmachinery doesn't have direct contact with Pito or the translators here and is just working from assumptions. Better to wait until drpepperfan gets some "horse's mouth" info.

meanmachinery is a member of SAD and Idolatrymaster.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

The tags Pito read, and approved of, were the ones on that tumblr. Which has a transgender tag, but NOT a futanari one.

I think the only reason the Futanari tag was put up based from my understanding was because of the translation on one of their tweets and their history of making Futanari comics.

Though can you send a link if ever on where it was approved? I might have missed it and I'll put it up on the other post I did to clear things up then.

Pito linked to the tumblr release on their twitter, and was in contact with the translators about the content of the doujin, including the tags.

Keep in mind that there is a language barrier; Pito described the work in korean. I personally feel it would be better to use the tags used on the tumblr, which got the approval of the original.

Which means yuri and transgender, not futanari.

Ah yes I understand what you mean now. I don't think I have to change anything on my original post at the top? As much as I agree, we just have to wait for it to be changed. Most do agree on the tag being Transgender and Yuri, including me.

meanmachinery is a member of SAD and Idolatrymaster.

Ah, fair enough then.

Ah well all we have to do is wait for the tags to be changed then. That's pretty much that.

Ah well all we have to do is wait for the tags to be changed then. That's pretty much that.

Let's hope for the best! It seems the majority is in favour of it being tagged yuri and transgender.

Someone go ask Pito

Kind of a bummer that lacking explicit authorial permission is being set up as a shield to justify transphobia. Apparently trans goggles must be kept under lock and key. But I'm glad Nez is on team yuri and I do hope they succeed in reaching out to Pito.

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 3:06PM

Actually, we do. Let me remind you all that Tomboy wasn't originally intended as a transgender movie, but it ended up consagrated as so by the transmasculine community. I studied communication theory in college a while back, and one thing I've learned was that the author has absolutely no control over how their work is going to be interpreted by others (see the lovely book "The Open Work" by Umberto Eco for a reference).

I think what they were trying to say was, the tags should be left factual and not based on feeling or opinion. You are free to feel any way about a work regardless of official statement or stance from the author, but factually, the author has the final say.

Either way, asking PITO for clarification would be extremely helpful. Having a defininative answer would be preferable to people telling others how to think and feel.

Someone go ask Pito

Kind of a bummer that lacking explicit authorial permission is being set up as a shield to justify transphobia. Apparently trans goggles must be kept under lock and key. But I'm glad Nez is on team yuri and I do hope they succeed in reaching out to Pito.

Note from above. Rankarana mentioned meanmachinery being part of SAD and Idolatrymaster which the latter being the one(s) who translated PITO's comic. So I think it's pretty much confirmed(?) that the tags are yuri and transgender.

EDIT: I initially just put the ? there cause I'm not sure if it's considered as confirmed or not. Didn't want to confuse or offend anyone in my own understanding of the situation.

In any case, we just have to wait and see for either further confirmation or for the tags to be changed.

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 3:11PM

Someone go ask Pito

Kind of a bummer that lacking explicit authorial permission is being set up as a shield to justify transphobia. Apparently trans goggles must be kept under lock and key. But I'm glad Nez is on team yuri and I do hope they succeed in reaching out to PITO.

Asking the author themself what they intended is hardly justifying transphobia. It's just trying to clarify the original intent.
There's been a lot of talk on the matter, and things like the people pointing out that the original Twitter posts say "futanari" while the Tumblr post is "Transgender", so asking would help clear that up. There've been opinions from multiple views on this release and what to tag it, and asking Pito what they actually intended would clear everything up and define what to tag it as.

Actually, we do. Let me remind you all that Tomboy wasn't originally intended as a transgender movie, but it ended up consagrated as so by the transmasculine community. I studied communication theory in college a while back, and one thing I've learned was that the author has absolutely no control over how their work is going to be interpreted by others (see the lovely book "The Open Work" by Umberto Eco for a reference).

I think what they were trying to say was, the tags should be left factual and not based on feeling or opinion. You are free to feel any way about a work regardless of official statement or stance from the author, but factually, the author has the final say.

I understand that. What I meant is that "factual" is relative to the context. In the Tomboy example, if we simply took the director's opinion on the matter, we'd be left without a great movie about trans men. Say, for example, that we had a story with an amab (assigned male at birth) character that clearly identifies as a woman (including, for example, undergoing HRT and seeking judicial name change), but the work itself had been marked as "crossdresser" by the author. It would still be a story about a trans woman, because that's how we would see the character. At the end of the day, how a work is perceived by people is far more important than the author's original intentions.

BUT, this is not the case here. This work is pretty ambiguous, and the discussion has been going on for a while, so I agree that seeking the author's opinion could be one way to settle the debate.

Actually, we do. Let me remind you all that Tomboy wasn't originally intended as a transgender movie, but it ended up consagrated as so by the transmasculine community. I studied communication theory in college a while back, and one thing I've learned was that the author has absolutely no control over how their work is going to be interpreted by others (see the lovely book "The Open Work" by Umberto Eco for a reference).

I think what they were trying to say was, the tags should be left factual and not based on feeling or opinion. You are free to feel any way about a work regardless of official statement or stance from the author, but factually, the author has the final say.

I understand that. What I meant is that "factual" is relative to the context. In the Tomboy example, if we simply took the director's opinion on the matter, we'd be left without a great movie about trans men. Say, for example, that we had a story with an amab (assigned male at birth) character that clearly identifies as a woman (including, for example, undergoing HRT and seeking judicial name change), but the work itself had been marked as "crossdresser" by the author. It would still be a story about a trans woman, because that's how we would see the character. At the end of the day, how a work is perceived by people is far more important than the author's original intentions.

BUT, this is not the case here. This work is pretty ambiguous, and the discussion has been going on for a while, so I agree that seeking the author's opinion could be one way to settle the debate.

The thing is, Pito is korean. Different languages have different perspectives; from their point of view, 'futanari' might just mean 'female character with a dick', rather than the specific definition for it we have in English.

Actually, we do. Let me remind you all that Tomboy wasn't originally intended as a transgender movie, but it ended up consagrated as so by the transmasculine community. I studied communication theory in college a while back, and one thing I've learned was that the author has absolutely no control over how their work is going to be interpreted by others (see the lovely book "The Open Work" by Umberto Eco for a reference).

I think what they were trying to say was, the tags should be left factual and not based on feeling or opinion. You are free to feel any way about a work regardless of official statement or stance from the author, but factually, the author has the final say.

I understand that. What I meant is that "factual" is relative to the context. In the Tomboy example, if we simply took the director's opinion on the matter, we'd be left without a great movie about trans men. Say, for example, that we had a story with an amab (assigned male at birth) character that clearly identifies as a woman (including, for example, undergoing HRT and seeking judicial name change), but the work itself had been marked as "crossdresser" by the author. It would still be a story about a trans woman, because that's how we would see the character. At the end of the day, how a work is perceived by people is far more important than the author's original intentions.

BUT, this is not the case here. This work is pretty ambiguous, and the discussion has been going on for a while, so I agree that seeking the author's opinion could be one way to settle the debate.

The thing is, Pito is korean. Different languages have different perspectives; from their point of view, 'futanari' might just mean 'female character with a dick', rather than the specific definition for it we have in English.

That does make it more difficult if true...Hopefully there can be some clarification though.

Solution to the language barrier, ask author if the story is "fetish material about a woman fucking a giant dick with the life support system for a pair of tits attached" or if its about a girl with a dick pursuing that sweet age gap yuri.

The thing is, Pito is korean. Different languages have different perspectives; from their point of view, 'futanari' might just mean 'female character with a dick', rather than the specific definition for it we have in English.

As someone who can read Korean, I can clarify that Pito tags pretty much all of their comics where a character happens to have a dick with "futanari warning", and that most of the relevant Korean tweets I've seen (which I'll admit is limited mostly to LL stuff, so I could be biased here) use "futa" and "futanari" exclusively rather than "transgender". Thus, I'm pretty much in agreement with this:

Pito linked to the tumblr release on their twitter, and was in contact with the translators about the content of the doujin, including the tags.

Keep in mind that there is a language barrier; Pito described the work in korean. I personally feel it would be better to use the tags used on the tumblr, which got the approval of the original.

Which means yuri and transgender, not futanari.

So I guess that's that. Though, as someone said before, if Dynasty wants to use the "futanari" tag for the purposes of "this chick has a dick" instead of making a PC distinction, that's honestly fine with me.

And to try to steer things a little back on course here (haha), I'll quote what I said before:

If you compare this comic to a previous Pito comic with a somewhat similar setting, you can see that Pito sometimes depicts You as a bit of a player who fools around with girls for stress relief. That previous comic, plus the ending of "Going Off Course" kinda makes me think that you could put a one-sided YouChika spin on this (i.e. You-chan sleeping around to deal with her squashed-down feelings for Chika).

Am I the only one who read this comic with a ChikaYou perspective in mind? ( ; v ; )