Just want to say that I love the translation, Ropponmatsu, really well done. Good job! It's fun to see accents translated.

Here, in the scene with the lipstick, Kase never clarifies herself and Yamada just rolls with it, accepting that "it doesn't suit her", which feels really dysfunctional as a relationship dynamic.

That’s true, and there are any number of moments in the series (and in most real-life relationships, for that matter) that, taken to an extreme or in a different direction, would be signs of a problematic relationship.

I mean, in literal terms, in the Christmas episode Kase lies in order to trick Yamada into going to a love hotel.

In context, it’s just a one-panel throwaway gag about Kase’s avidity and Yamada’s raised-in-a-tank cluelessness about matters sexual. But subjected to the standard “what if this were real life/what if it were a guy doing it?” tests people often use, it would be . . .something other than what it is in the story.

I do trust that anybody who bets that the tale of Yamada and Kase-san will take a seriously dark turn is just throwing away their money.

I mostly agree with what you are saying, but I also feel that in this case, there's a difference. In the christmas chapter, it's a single panel gag played for laughs. In the most recent chapter, it's instead a multi-page emotional beat that focuses heavily on Kase's feelings for Yamada. The fact that they show that vaguely disturbing reaction from Kase without showing any negative repercussions felt weird.

But, since I have faith in the author, my guess is that it will be adressed in the next chapter. Yamada will go to the mixer (while wearing make-up!), she ends up super-cute and attracting a guy, Kase have to rescue her, Kase admits she said what she said about the lipstick because it drives her crazy with lust, and she brings up the name thing again. They kiss and make up., problem solved.

Now let's just see if MY bet for how the story progress will pay off...

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 8:33AM

I really don’t think that Kase’s reaction to the lipstick (and yes, something like this did happen before—you’ll find it somewhere in the volume translated as Kase-san and APRON) isn’t primarily jealousy/possessiveness—the way those scenes are staged I think Kase’s thinking is more like:

“Yamada, if you get even one percentage point cuter we’re going to have to have sex starting immediately and do it constantly from then on, but that’s a big problem because we’re in public, we have other things to do with our lives, and me telling you this would weird you out anyway. So you can’t get any cuter. Please.”

I agree with the sprit of what you're saying, but in the chapter with the apron, Yamada defied Kase's request and Kase realized she was unreasonable, so they made up and it all worked out.

Here, in the scene with the lipstick, Kase never clarifies herself and Yamada just rolls with it, accepting that "it doesn't suit her", which feels really dysfunctional as a relationship dynamic.

I have faith in the author, so hopefully the next chapter will feature Kase explaining herself or realizing her mistake in negging her girlfriend, and their relationship progress from there. Otherwise, that lipstick scene would have been pretty gross.

I think i like this country girl more than Kase to be honest.

Yeah, nah.

At least Hana isn’t telling Yamada what to wear or lying that lipstick doesn’t suit her ¯_(ツ)_/¯

why all this drama anyway? Pito usually makes characters futa it's nothing new or needs discussion

See frigidbones' simple answer up above, it really sums up this whole thread in a very concise way. It's a good argument for keeping the transgender tag, imo.

Just sayin, futanari doesn't have to be gross or over the top like Futabu ( and if you think it is, I understand why you would be against it), so in my understanding, You in the anime and in this doujin being a girl, with a penis, in a world where there isn't a crazy reaction... I think is just the common futanari setup.

On dynasty, futanari seems to be a tag used for porn that visible depicts a penis, and not one used for a girl who seems to be trans. The fact that this doujin is considered futanari despite the fact that nothing like that is depicted kind of goes against that definition, and seems to border into erasure when it comes to trans women and yuri.

I like the story. If PITO hadn't labeled it differently, I honestly would have simply seen it as a yuri doujin. I know enough girls who love their harness, so the position is nothing unusual. The "did you let it all out" piece struck me as "did that help your frustration", as the inebriated office last was rather surprised (albeit not unhappily it seems), by the earlier "let's go to a hotel" part, which indicated that the young girl had something on her mind and just wanted to let off​ some steam.

I honestly thought the same when I proofread it, and it wasn't until when dynasty tagged it that I suddenly saw that people regarded it as 'futanari'. The insistance that keep it tagged as such when everything seems to point it towards being yuri is, I feel, mildly ridiculous.

Dynasty is not a transgender support group site.

This doesn't mean the site should be actively hostile towards trans women and their relationship. Calling them 'futanari' is frankly rather offensive, not to mention inaccurate.

Just a reminder transgender x female isn't yuri.

Pretty sure this was a troll attempting to restart the conversation.

Judging from the two posts above me, it's pretty clear that transphobia exists on dynasty, and that the tags shouldn't be used to encourage them.

I'd rather label her as "intersex", because she has features of both genders, it seems ordinary in that "world", and she seems to be okay with that.

Like futanaries incidentally.

I realize you'd rather label her as intersex, but in the doujin itself, You identifies as a woman and is refered to as such, and there is no visible depiction of her genitalia for you to make any of these claims.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:27AM

How can it be yuri if it's heterosexual sexual intercourse between a biological male and a biological female

Sexual identification is fine and all but bending everyone else to your own viewpoint is just selfish

I wonder if you are even aware of the irony here yourself...

It's not heterosexual sexual intercourse. It's two women, who identify as women, flirting and having sex, so it's a lesbian relationship. It's yuri.

So you can say that every het doujin is yuri as long you argue that the guy identifies as a woman? what

If it's biologically a male it shouldn't be yuri.

This is a dumb argument, because the men in those doujins clearly don't identify or get identified as women. It's completely seperate from a transgendered character.

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT YOU IS A TRANS WOMAN? A pre-op one at that.

I was under the impression that the You here is a trans male.

This whole discussion is dumb. People are grasping at straws here.

The fact that he/she didn't correct the woman but they didn't even discuss the fact she has a penis once in the hotel makes this very illogical and doesn't prove anything.

Exactly, it is clear that You in this manga identifies as a woman, and is identified as one by the older woman. Therefore it's clearly yuri, right?

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:11AM

It wouldn't change anything immediately, but it'd have dynasty take a stance and show that they consider trans women to be women rather than "futanari". Progress is made by small steps like that.

Fortunately, dynasty already consider trans women to be women and yuri. But they are also simultaneously committed to preserving the futa tag as the default (unless manga is explicitly trans) interpretation of women with penises, in order to prevent fetish porny stuff from being labeled transgender. The drawbacks of this policy have been noted.

The latter point is why this entire thread is somewhat ridiculous, because at no point in this manga is a penis even depicted. There isn't even a NSFW tag on the doujin, and no real reason to tag it with "futanari".

It's a yuri manga with a (possibly, it's honestly not even that obvious) trans woman You, and it'd be neat if the tags represented that, rather than used the "futanari" one.

i thought the general rule is it's not yuri if there's a penis involved

did I miss something?

Yuri is lesbian fiction; as in fiction about two (or more) women, so the question is whether or not transgender women are women or not.
(They are.)

meanmachinery posted:

Just a reminder transgender x female isn't yuri.

This is exactly why this doujin should be tagged as "transgender" and "yuri", so that people will realize that transgender girls are also yuri.

No, they said it exactly because they don't consider trans woman, a woman, and wanted to "correct" us. Different tags wouldn't change anything.

It wouldn't change anything immediately, but it'd have dynasty take a stance and show that they consider trans women to be women rather than "futanari". Progress is made by small steps like that.

Just a reminder transgender x female isn't yuri.

This is exactly why this doujin should be tagged as "transgender" and "yuri", so that people will realize that transgender girls are also yuri.

Saw there was 175 comments, then I realized it was basically one big argument. Anyway another good read Pito

The discussion and comic title is appropriate to the whole thing lol.

EDIT: I just woke up to find an argument starting to brew over again. Uh, guys I think it should really stop. It's just going to drag on forever since no side wants to back down.

I just think it's strange that dynasty would have such a transphobic approach to tagging a doujin with a transgendered character, so I'd be very happy if they changed it.

So I have never posted here before, and been lurking for years - only very recently made an account and until now refused to touch it. I only very recently even started doing any social media at all, which is weird since I'm 26.

Sorry for being a gross stain on your girl love

I fully support you; a lot of dynasty is very transphobic, and it is a huge shame. I was hoping a site that mostly features LBTQ manga would have been more open than it actually is. But, while this while sound cliche as hell, I will say keep being you; don't let them win. Transgender rights are a part of the LBTQ spectrum, no matter what they say.

Well, that's heartfelt, heartbreaking and makes me think about your issues.

Meanwhile my first impression of Vivan was of her denouncing EVERYONE when Nezchan didn't immdeatly put the banhammer down on someone she didn't agree with and making a overly dramatic exit (for a while) and now she is back and the first post I read from her is this: https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/12103-going-off-course-discussion?page=1#forum_post_271812

Lovely.

While it is clumsily and aggressively stated, I can't say she's wrong. A trans girl having sex with another girl is definitely yuri, and trying to deny that is undeniably pretty transphobic.

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 4:46PM

Thank you for supporting my opinion friend. This site is for yuri, political or social (whatever it is) has no place here in my opinion. I'm not sure about everyone else but I'm here to bask in yuri and cute girls doing yuri things... and lewd things... like hand holding.

I guess the sarcasm zoomed over your head, which is quite the feat.

If you're here to bask in the yuri, I'd suggest reading the thousands of pages of yuri that exist on this site, not going into the forum to complain that a trans woman took issue with being told that yuri doesn't include them.

How the hell am I suppose to tell sarcasm over texted words in the first place moron? Second that user also did the same thing, you're just defending her. That user just had to use transphobic like the triggered sjw she is. People l=came here to enjoy doujins not to fucking see some sjw triggered because of a wrong pronoun smh. People that complies to shit like that are just sad and defending triggered people are just worse, that's you.

You aren't exactly making a good case for you not being transphobic, you know.

This is a topic titled 'transgender', so it's a discussion about transgendered yuri. If you don't want to be involved in these discussions, then don't read the threads.

Actually, we do. Let me remind you all that Tomboy wasn't originally intended as a transgender movie, but it ended up consagrated as so by the transmasculine community. I studied communication theory in college a while back, and one thing I've learned was that the author has absolutely no control over how their work is going to be interpreted by others (see the lovely book "The Open Work" by Umberto Eco for a reference).

I think what they were trying to say was, the tags should be left factual and not based on feeling or opinion. You are free to feel any way about a work regardless of official statement or stance from the author, but factually, the author has the final say.

I understand that. What I meant is that "factual" is relative to the context. In the Tomboy example, if we simply took the director's opinion on the matter, we'd be left without a great movie about trans men. Say, for example, that we had a story with an amab (assigned male at birth) character that clearly identifies as a woman (including, for example, undergoing HRT and seeking judicial name change), but the work itself had been marked as "crossdresser" by the author. It would still be a story about a trans woman, because that's how we would see the character. At the end of the day, how a work is perceived by people is far more important than the author's original intentions.

BUT, this is not the case here. This work is pretty ambiguous, and the discussion has been going on for a while, so I agree that seeking the author's opinion could be one way to settle the debate.

The thing is, Pito is korean. Different languages have different perspectives; from their point of view, 'futanari' might just mean 'female character with a dick', rather than the specific definition for it we have in English.

Always a good sign when the person telling a trans person to shut up because the sanctity of a thread supersedes their issue with being told that yuri precludes trans girls/women slips up and misgenders them.

Thank you for supporting my opinion friend. This site is for yuri, political or social (whatever it is) has no place here in my opinion. I'm not sure about everyone else but I'm here to bask in yuri and cute girls doing yuri things... and lewd things... like hand holding.

Yuri can definitely qualify as LBTQ literature (which is inherently political), so I'm afraid I will have to disagree!

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 3:42PM

Ah well all we have to do is wait for the tags to be changed then. That's pretty much that.

Let's hope for the best! It seems the majority is in favour of it being tagged yuri and transgender.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

The tags Pito read, and approved of, were the ones on that tumblr. Which has a transgender tag, but NOT a futanari one.

I think the only reason the Futanari tag was put up based from my understanding was because of the translation on one of their tweets and their history of making Futanari comics.

Though can you send a link if ever on where it was approved? I might have missed it and I'll put it up on the other post I did to clear things up then.

Pito linked to the tumblr release on their twitter, and was in contact with the translators about the content of the doujin, including the tags.

Keep in mind that there is a language barrier; Pito described the work in korean. I personally feel it would be better to use the tags used on the tumblr, which got the approval of the original.

Which means yuri and transgender, not futanari.

Someone go ask Pito.

Yeah, trying to arrange that. Hopefully it'll happen.

I think the one who translated the comic had someone do the the translating and talking to PITO for them going by the name toeto, I think? Maybe you could ask them for help?

EDIT: Quoted from the tumblr post; "Many thanks to @toeto​ for providing the translation and doing all the actual ‘talking to PITO’ work! I’m indebted!"

http://idolatrymaster.tumblr.com/post/159505249329/%ED%95%AD%EB%A1%9C%EC%9D%B4%ED%83%88-going-off-course-by-pito-korean-source

The tags Pito read, and approved of, were the ones on that tumblr. Which has a transgender tag, but NOT a futanari one.

I still don't see where the dick everyone is talking about is shown/mentioned.

I read this twice and I can't, for the life of me, see where this is transgender or even futa.

Except, maybe, the position? Or just the author mentioned in his twitter, "hey, You has a dick by the way! Just so you know."

Someone please enlighten me?

From what I hear from the translator, Pito (the author) said that You was transgender on their twitter, but dynasty tagged it as futanari, and everything went from there.

meanmachinery posted:

Thing is, this isn't even a futanari doujin, is it? No penis is ever depicted, so I feel that tag could be removed and replaced with a yuri one, which would represent the doujin far better.

Well to me it feels much more like trans story than futa, but because author is know for futa doujins and they supposedly tagged it this way, everyone jumped to conclusion it has to be futa.

I personally think this doujin stands on its own as a transgender yuri doujin! In a perfect world, I think this doujin would have been tagged yuri, transgender, age_gap and drama, and we could have avoided this huge, ugly thread.

It would have been a better world...

last edited at Apr 14, 2017 1:09PM