I started writing a post that got kind of out of hand for the particular thread (Knight Tale, which I can't link because it triggers the spam filter), so I figured I'd turn it into its own. What defines yuri changes over the years as the genre evolves and publishers fade in and out, and we're basically the main place western yuri readers congregate, so it kind of makes sense to discuss what the hell this thing we read is all about. We have scattered discussions about in the threads and it occasionally shows up on /u/, but nothing fruitful ever comes of it.
Consider this a debate, an argument, or better, a conversation attempting to get to the bottom of how to classify yuri, what fits in the genre, and why. Can we include fanfics and shipfics? Do lesbians auto-equal yuri? Does country of origin matter? Is it a romance genre?
I typed it out on a tablet first, so please forgive any errors or lack of articulation. It also doesn't fit the conversation model as I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to yuri. This was a response to the problem of what does and doesn't constitute yuri, so I went with the most concrete approach that also happens to fit my favorite yuri. Coincidence?
Hmmm... I don't know if this is yuri or not.
After reading it, I just thought that it was a classic case of unintentional lady-killer swooning girls all over the place by acting like a prince/knight. With lots of blushing, lots of "I will protect you" and "swoooooon", but it will never go beyond a princess carry and a hug.
I'd call that "fake yuri", or "class S" yuri. A la Maria-sama, where it's implied that it's just a harmless youth thing. The setting of an all-girl school with a system of knighthood doesn't plead for real yuri.
And the heavy ecchi content, with panty-shots, naked boobs and molestation pleads for a hentai hungry male demographic target
I will believe it's yuri if the two MC girls ever kiss or acknowledge mutual romantic feelings (and not the side characters).
Maybe some people who read ahead can give more information.
It looks like it could be yuri, it smells like yuri, but as of now, I don't think it deserves the yuri
That's one way of going about defining yuri. But, I agree with Ano from Kindred Spirits when she says that holding hands is fine yuri. Personally, I feel if a story doesn't have a heavy dose of either drama, angst, or romance, then it's not yuri. But, that was the previous incarnation of yuri from the Tsubomi (and Lililicious!) days. The definition isn't static, with the only worthwhile metric being market forces. As a genre of writing, the literary (manga) market sets the definition via the major serials of the time (yuri hime, rakuen, hirari, etc.). Some definitive or influential works can occur outside the serials, but they're the exceptions rather than the rules. Ship fics, fan work, and non professional work all follow their lead.
For a simplified example, at this point, class S is a historical genre from a different period in yuri determined by an earlier Japanese culture. Those cultural forces aren't around anymore, so you can't have a new class S story. You can have a writer imitate it, a pastiche, the way someone can imitate modernist poetry, but it would not be considered Class S or modernist now.
Personally, I feel Galette will be setting the new tone for yuri as I've heard the current editor In chief of yuri hime may be straying.
This manga definitely has that male gaze, male demographic feel. I particularly agree that it was unnecessary and uncomfortable. But, we've had ecchi yuri and male written yuri before. In this case, the mangaka is probably playing to the editor or the serial. To see if it's yuri, we have to ask where it was originally serialized, where it was published, and if the mangaka was intentionally following established yuri patterns.
Dynasty's yuri tag does not, and should not, follow suite. The tags are in place so a reader can search for what they want to read or know what will be in the story. That particular tag needs to be very broad to have any utility to match reader needs.
Yuri, in the market definition, is also Japanese, and generally romantic. Outside of Japan, yuri often quickly equates to lesbians. Which is to say that if you have lesbians, you have yuri. This style operates almost entirely independently from the original market and should likely have a different classification. Particularly because, generally, yuri is not a subversive genre and operates almost independently of feminism/feminist criticism, queer criticism, and LGBT concerns/history, this breakdown and massive redefinition of the genre on a country by country or region by region basis outside of Japan presents a ton of classification problems.
For example, could Allison Bechdel's Fun Home be considered yuri? It would meet most non market based definitions. It's also a fucking masterpiece.
For me, the main draw to yuri is the romance. I love the cliche, intense emotion, and standard story lines. When you read pop fiction, you're there to get what you want and know, generally with slight variation. If I wanted something new, I would read something experimental like House of Leaves or Infinite Jest. Though, there are some phenomenal mangaka, like Takemiya Jin, that can wed genre conventions with authentic experience (Read the first chapter of Fragments of Love and watch how it intentionality shatters previous yuri conventions while introducing queer life with a mastery of the genre itself) (though morinaga and morishima say they're doing the same.), most manga that engages the LGBT community is outside of yuri like honey and honey, lesbian motherhood, that one, etc.
to;dr Empower yourself and read some damn feminist and queer theory.
last edited at Mar 23, 2017 12:58PM
