If FF had no limit for the chapters then you could tell it's ok, but is not the case so yeah, Samba is taking too long.

The author is dragging this out much longer than necessary.

I can agree with this. I think even korean readers think so too, cause I see less and less likes for ech new chapter on comico.

I think the number of likes of each chapter is not important. The important thing is people still read it lol. Even I myself didnt click "like" on the chapters I didnt like. Nonetheless FF is still my favorite manhwa.

If you check japan comico, the most liked chapter is chapter 43 with almost 50,000 likes. Chapter 41 and below never got more than 25,000 likes. It varies after Chapter 44. Funny heh?

I think the number of likes of each chapter is not important. The important thing is people still read it lol.

Of course.

Fan comic of Chapter 60 by cccipp:

http://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/154698

 
Also check out other recent fan art!

last edited at Jan 19, 2016 6:49PM

Fan comic of Chapter 60 by cccipp:

http://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/154698

 
Also check out other recent fan art!

Just so funny. "Was I cool?" That sounded just like Seola lol

How is the amount staggering? Can you point out another Shoujo manga of similar length with fewer tropes?

The length is irrelevant. I can point a shorter "manga" with maybe as many cliches, but a whole lot better written. That is Lily Love. The cliches are obvious, but the story flows naturally.

Couldn't even read the first chapter - it's one of those mangas that I really hated despite it being very well drawn so occasionally I kept trying to read it again and again, but kept dropping from the very first chapter. I just couldn't. And then I stopped caring about it completely, and today I'm very happy about that decision :)

As I have stated numerous times, it's not the tropes or the cliches themselves that I dislike. It's the way they are brought in FF, in a seemlingly endless succession of "let's see what I could put in there that would give the characters a dramatic background..."

For Seol-a, it's the drama of traffic accidents and death/betrayal of her girl friend. For No-rae it's the drama of her ex-boyfriend being injured and totally immature about their relationship.

And then... the past comes to haunt them, blah blah blah...

Meanwhile, the readers are left wondering when the fucking romance between the two characters is going to even start.

Because, for instance, Seol-a feels insecure and doesn't want to get rejected. She's worried. She doesn't want to get hurt. She cherishes her current relationship and is afraid to destroy it. Perhaps she thought she had a chance, but once the ex appeared, she realised the rejection was a lot more probable. I can 100% relate to such feelings, which makes the story for me 10 times more realistic and enjoyable.

I agree that the cliches are overused in FF and somewhat destroy the realism, but I account it to the genre/Korean media culture. And besides, the FF is really not about the action-driven plot, it's about the feelings and their gradual development, these fluttering emotions one feels when falls in love, and how they are expressed in various small life situations, e.g.
"Today we ate lunch together and she said something sweet, looked at me, and blushed, so I went all Kyaaa, what if she feels something for me! Could it be real? Nah, no way, I'm probably just imagining things. But perhaps she really does?"
One step forward, two steps back. And so on. It's clearly not for everyone.

Hey you love each other it seems. And this is crazy, but you should just confess! Or, you know, drop hints?

People are different. Some are afraid and are waiting for the romance to either develop naturally or die. If the other person is matching it may very well come to reality. Again, I can relate to it.

I mean, the ex boyfriend disappared for a whole arc (weeks in story time?). WHY DIDN'T SEOL-A RESUME HER CONFESSION? Why would she care about an ex? All the more reason to confess. The readers are left to guess, hence the walls of text here full of guesswork and awe about "microexpressions". Nothing is exposed or explained. Fans clutch at straws in order to interpret what the hell these characters are thinking.

You won't believe it, but it's exactly why I love FF. The fact that you are not fed with direct explanations but things are left untold and you have to look for details to make your own opinion of what is going on, discuss this on the forum, and get more fun out of it. Did you guess right? Did you guess wrong? It's fun! It's a constant play with the author. And it's really something that some people love and adore, while others hate. And normally these categories don't understand each other well, because they like absolutely opposite things. And that's OK.

The author is dragging this out much longer than necessary.

No, the pacing is perfect. I could easily enjoy this for another 100 chapters.

All the characters fail at life I think.

Except the fact that they don't :) I mean, it's a very, very subjective statement. For you they suck, for others - they are going through one of the very exciting parts of their relationship. But again, it depends on what you define as being exciting and what not.

Anyway, they already have a relationship, so I don't think it has to be rushed. One of them just needs to say something--to the other half of the relationship. Still, I would like to see a season 2.

Relationship? What relationship? They are friends. They have been for 60 chapters. 40 chapters or so to go.

They are not just friends. They are very close friends, in public at least. Yet they worry for each other if one might get hurt a lot more than just friends would do. And they may run after one another. However occasionally they may also run away from one another. Their relationship is a lot more intimate than many other friendships yet they are scared to destroy it by a confession. And this relationship has been gradually built, step by step, along these past 60 chapters. And it continues to evolve. A lot of it was based on unconscious romance. Both realised and practically accepted they are at least bisexuals. You know, it's still a big thing for many people to understand that about themselves and then accept it, especially if you're grown in a culture where it's not welcome.

I hope Ssamba gets to the juicy part fast, because time is running out. Unless she lied and makes 200 chapters after all.

The juicy part were happening in all 60 chapters. So if you still haven't found it juicy, I wouldn't expect any juice for you at all in the FF. And it's OK. It's just not your thing, really. And I mean it, it's not bad. It's great that you're different and enjoy other stories. And there are tons of other people like you. So really, take it easy and enjoy the stories that you like more. We will neither hate you for that, nor will we stop loving FF for what it is, what it's been, and what it will be.

last edited at Jan 19, 2016 7:46PM

Lol lilly love being well written and cliché free...I must be seeing things. Or not seeing them depending on how you look at it. Time to get my eyes checked

kyra?? I must be seeing things. Time to get my eyes checked

kyra?? I must be seeing things. Time to get my eyes checked

You, my dear Anonymous, are a treasure. You deserve a lifetime supply of internet cookies.

anonymous

kyra?? I must be seeing things. Time to get my eyes checked

Dearie me, never could tear myself away from such a stellar display of mental gymnastics.

last edited at Jan 19, 2016 8:51PM

Lilly love.........................
Well,......... its something.
I prefer FF.

takachi (& Nya-chan)

How is the amount staggering? Can you point out another Shoujo manga of similar length with fewer tropes?

The length is irrelevant. I can point a shorter "manga" with maybe as many cliches, but a whole lot better written. That is Lily Love. The cliches are obvious, but the story flows naturally.

Couldn't even read the first chapter - it's one of those mangas that I really hated despite it being very well drawn so occasionally I kept trying to read it again and again, but kept dropping from the very first chapter. I just couldn't. And then I stopped caring about it completely, and today I'm very happy about that decision :)

It took me a while to keep reading Lily Love after chapter 1 too. I didnt like the art too much. But once I got past the art, I even followed its raw releases (being such a desperate yuri fan). But even so, I've never re-read a single translated chapter. I read the raw once, and the translated a few months after that, once. Nothing kept me coming back again. (Maybe in the future for some hot hot scenes at night haha)

For Seol-a, it's the drama of traffic accidents and death/betrayal of her girl friend. For No-rae it's the drama of her ex-boyfriend being injured and totally immature about their relationship.

And then... the past comes to haunt them, blah blah blah...

Meanwhile, the readers are left wondering when the fucking romance between the two characters is going to even start.

Because, for instance, Seol-a feels insecure and doesn't want to get rejected. She's worried. She doesn't want to get hurt. She cherishes her current relationship and is afraid to destroy it. Perhaps she thought she had a chance, but once the ex appeared, she realised the rejection was a lot more probable. I can 100% relate to such feelings, which makes the story for me 10 times more realistic and enjoyable.

As hurt as I think about my past, I went through the same emotions as Norae and Seola for over 5 years with the same girl. She was pretty and very confident on the surface (being an MC at many community events), but she had even a darker past that haunted her with abandonment issues. I was average looking girl with androgynous personality growing up with many insecurities trying to please others. Like Norae described Seola and herself, that girl and me were like "oil and water."
I've never read anything felt as real as FF (to me personally).
FF story is like a fantasy, a wish-come-true to my broken past, a peek at what could have been if she indeed (and not my never-ending guess and assumption) felt the same.

[...] the FF is really not about the action-driven plot, it's about the feelings and their gradual development, these fluttering emotions one feels when falls in love, and how they are expressed in various small life situations, e.g.
"Today we ate lunch together and she said something sweet, looked at me, and blushed, so I went all Kyaaa, what if she feels something for me! Could it be real? Nah, no way, I'm probably just imagining things. But perhaps she really does?"
One step forward, two steps back. And so on. It's clearly not for everyone.

Yup. Again, I went through the same thing in real life. Maybe the western culture wouldn't understand this.
I live in the States but I was born and raised in Asia; and that insecure mentality still haunts me till today.

Hey you love each other it seems. And this is crazy, but you should just confess! Or, you know, drop hints?

People are different. Some are afraid and are waiting for the romance to either develop naturally or die. If the other person is matching it may very well come to reality. Again, I can relate to it.

Me too. Like I said, I went through the same things for so many years. I dropped hints... and felt like she dropped some hints. But then BOOM... some guy appeared in her life. I stopped dropping hints and back to acting like a supporting best friend. Time after time. I must be stupid right? Yeah I know I was a fool. But my point is I'm real, and my personal experience was real. The emotions Seola and Norae went through might not seem real to some of you. But to me it hit so close to home.

I mean, the ex boyfriend disappared for a whole arc (weeks in story time?). WHY DIDN'T SEOL-A RESUME HER CONFESSION? Why would she care about an ex? All the more reason to confess. The readers are left to guess, hence the walls of text here full of guesswork and awe about "microexpressions". Nothing is exposed or explained. Fans clutch at straws in order to interpret what the hell these characters are thinking.

You won't believe it, but it's exactly why I love FF. The fact that you are not fed with direct explanations but things are left untold and you have to look for details to make your own opinion of what is going on, discuss this on the forum, and get more fun out of it. Did you guess right? Did you guess wrong? It's fun! It's a constant play with the author. And it's really something that some people love and adore, while others hate. And normally these categories don't understand each other well, because they like absolutely opposite things. And that's OK.

And I'm still at awe at Ssamba's ability to tell a story through subtle micro expressions. Really. That's one of the things that got me into FF in the first place. It's not for everyone, but to me it's what kept me re-reading it so many times.
Take WDTFS for example. Despite its beautiful characters, I most of the time cant tell what the characters are feeling without reading into the circumstances and the texts. In the new chapter 37, Nam was reflecting on Seju's cute expression, but I cant distinguish what made that moment of expression different from her other expression. She always looked like that to me.

I hope Ssamba gets to the juicy part fast, because time is running out. Unless she lied and makes 200 chapters after all.

The juicy part were happening in all 60 chapters. So if you still haven't found it juicy, I wouldn't expect any juice for you at all in the FF. And it's OK. It's just not your thing, really. And I mean it, it's not bad. It's great that you're different and enjoy other stories. And there are tons of other people like you. So really, take it easy and enjoy the stories that you like more. We will neither hate you for that, nor will we stop loving FF for what it is, what it's been, and what it will be.

Amen

P.S. takachi, I love you for being you and for speaking up your wonderful opinions ;-> lol

last edited at Jan 19, 2016 11:53PM

Nya-chan

Hey you love each other it seems. And this is crazy, but you should just confess! Or, you know, drop hints?

Hey you love each other it seems

Yeah No-rae blushed in the ferris wheel, it "seemed"

And this is crazy, you should just confess!

Hah! She did try!

But how could she confidently continue thinking it "seems" so after seeing this?

I wouldn't. Because in my real life I didn't either. No matter how pretty you are, you're still a girl. That's a sad fact for any girl who falls in love with another seemingly straight girl.

(I know Nya-chan couldn't care less, just thought I'd like to share)

last edited at Jan 19, 2016 11:31PM

Wow. So many awesome Comments. I apologize ahead of time, but I'm going to just name folks and respond. There'd be too many embedded quotes. :?

@offgray: Thank you for posting. I enjoyed all the 10 million parentheticals, ha-ha.

@Thiaguinho-sama: Fair enough. As for the script, I have a programming background, and I'm a bit paranoid. I do intend to check it out. ha-ha

@Nya-chan

ffins07

How is the amount staggering? Can you point out another Shoujo manga of similar length with fewer tropes?

The length is irrelevant. I can point a shorter "manga" with maybe as many cliches, but a whole lot better written. That is Lily Love. The cliches are obvious, but the story flows naturally.

Does it flow naturally, or does it flow quickly? To me it flows similarly to me any other manga, but the pacing isn't realistic. Maybe it's closer to reality for what happens in college, but that certainly wasn't my college experience. Could you be a bit more specific about what is better?

A shorter manga I think is pretty well written is A Lollipop or a Bullet--but not that's not a romantic relationship. Prism has a faster pace, and I think the quality of the story there is pretty good. However, I think it's harder too be good when you're being more detailed about the development of a relationship. In a fast-paced story you fill in the gaps with whatever you want or you ignore the details and look to the next source of gratification. I don't think that's fair comparison. In other words, lots of things look "bad" in HD if you've never previously looked closely.

As I have stated numerous times, it's not the tropes or the cliches themselves that I dislike. It's the way they are brought in FF, in a seemlingly endless succession of "let's see what I could put in there that would give the characters a dramatic background..."

Hmmm... Okay. The unnecessary setup dramatic thing bothers me too. I don't think that there have been a lot of them, but they've been significant. Boyfriend reappearance (x2), accident, bullying--but the bullying thing I think is okay. That is a common in reality. I still don't see how this makes FF worse than the shorter manga because they're using them in that way too.

You earlier said that your expectations were failed. I can see that the occasions on which these plot devices were used would stick more if you were expecting better. I didn't start out with such expectations, so...

For Seol-a, it's the drama of traffic accidents and death/betrayal of her girl friend. For No-rae it's the drama of her ex-boyfriend being injured and totally immature about their relationship.

And then... the past comes to haunt them, blah blah blah...

Er. I think this is another thing that falls into the "reality" bucket. People carry baggage. It's a real thing. If you aren't or don't know someone who is, live a little longer. And people try to resolve things before getting into relationships with people.

The traffic accident...that was unnecessary. If the boyfriend hadn't taken part in "interrupting the confession", I think that arc would have been fine too. No-rae had a boyfriend. That's not an unusual occurrence for females her age, regardless of sexual orientation. Add cultural context, and, yeah. As for No-rae being immature, I found the immature responses just wholly consistent, given her personality (and his personality) and stage of life.

Meanwhile, the readers are left wondering when the fucking romance between the two characters is going to even start.

Some readers, for sure. Other people have dropped in to complain about the "slow" progression. Other readers are quite pleased with the pace of things.

Hey you love each other it seems. And this is crazy, but you should just confess! Or, you know, drop hints?

As takachi and ieeheh said, people are different. There are people who don't do that. Some of them are reading this. You sound more confident about this than most people--females--with whom I've interacted.

How common is it for people to just confess? Especially girls? In Korea? In any country? Logically, yeah, seems like a thing to do, but when are (most) people in love (or in like) rational? Then there's the obvious liking-a-girl hanging in the back of their heads. That is still a thing for the vast majority of people.

I mean, the ex boyfriend disappared for a whole arc (weeks in story time?). WHY DIDN'T SEOL-A RESUME HER CONFESSION? Why would she care about an ex? All the more reason to confess. The readers are left to guess, hence the walls of text here full of guesswork and awe about "microexpressions". Nothing is exposed or explained. Fans clutch at straws in order to interpret what the hell these characters are thinking.

I second guess myself all the time when interrupted, and I'm not even talking about confessions or something that I spent months working up the courage to do. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If you're already naturally more confident as less patient. Maybe the characters are just very different from you and you're not understanding them. I don't find them hard to understand at all. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

K-drama are well known for being tear-jerkers, with tragic setbacks (traffic accidents!) and lots of unfair shit happening to the characters. The audience must sympathize and root for the courageous protagonist. See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/WriteAKoreanDrama for examples.

click This is looking hilarious. Thank you for the link. Will read.

Relationship? What relationship? They are friends. They have been for 60 chapters. 40 chapters or so to go.

I hope Ssamba gets to the juicy part fast, because time is running out. Unless she lied and makes 200 chapters after all.

We clearly have different expectations of relationships, ha-ha. I understand some (or lots of) people looking for more instant gratification in what they're reading. (That's a reason why many people don't read, at least in the US.) I am just not in that camp.

Lily Love... That thing has tropes from chapter one. The cover. Before I even read it. Tall, good-looking blonde. Brown-haired, average-looking girl. Naive. Semi-mysterious. Possessive ex-girlfriend. More experienced girl tempted to touch her love interest. Omg. The art is different, I'll give it that, but a little change up (from sexy) would be nice? To me, the author is emphasizing the visual appeal more than...anything. That is not a manga I'd consider in the well-written discussion. From a critical standpoint, it's just average, to me. The drawing style, pacing and development all point toward obvious gratification. This is the part I just find off-putting. If it were a one-shot, I wouldn't even care enough to thinking of it as off-putting.

I'm just going to stop this here cause this is an FF thread, and...I'm not going to be more constructive.

@takachi and @ieeheh: This series has hit close to home for me. Feelings, experiences, etc. I absolutely love the intimate nature of the story telling.

In most other romance stories, manga, manwha I never know the characters well enough to relate. There are so many commonalities in human experience--take any two people living in developed countries, seriously--if you know someone else well enough, there will be many things to which you can relate. I'm not saying everything, just many things. We eat. We sleep. We feel. The way we react to things differ. Our experiences differ.

Here, for me, for example, No-rae's character is familiar to me. And Seol-a position with respect to No-rae is familiar to me. I don't feel similar to Seol-a, personality-wise, but I've been in her place liking a No-rae-like person before. That I can be so specific in how I'm relating to the characters and situation is something that FF affords that many other manga and manwha don't. The main characters and their relationship is full enough that not everything has to fit. Only aspects have to be familiar. And that's how it is with how we relate to most things in life. I'm not exactly like anyone else on this forum, but I've shared experiences or share personality traits with some.

I rarely feel like I relate to characters in manga, manwha, books, whatever, so that I can relate to parts of FF makes it very special to me. Doesn't matter how many people like it or read it or whatever. And the story here is vivid such that I can feel empathy or compassion for parts of the story that I can't put in the context in my own life.

In a way, I'm more experiencing Fluttering Feelings and not reading it to be entertained. I tend to want to be immersed in a story. Not just drop-in and be entertained for a few minutes. That's my preference.

I think anyone here can argue and have their own vastly different opinions on the quality of writing and presence or lack of extensive tropes that is FF. However I think one thing we can all agree on is that it sure as hell would be nice to see these two characters actually confront their feelings and to see them try to navigate a healthy relationship. Crush/confession stories are nice, but usually the love stories that end up making a lasting impression are ones that go beyond the confession and explore how the characters manage adversity in their relationship, and if/how they are able to overcome it. And as Nya-chan pointed out earlier, there are a dwindling amount of chapters left for this kind of story to be told. And it worries me.

I think anyone here can argue and have their own vastly different opinions on the quality of writing and presence or lack of extensive tropes that is FF. However I think one thing we can all agree on is that it sure as hell would be nice to see these two characters actually confront their feelings and to see them try to navigate a healthy relationship. Crush/confession stories are nice, but usually the love stories that end up making a lasting impression are ones that go beyond the confession and explore how the characters manage adversity in their relationship, and if/how they are able to overcome it. And as Nya-chan pointed out earlier, there are a dwindling amount of chapters left for this kind of story to be told. And it worries me.

Honestly at this point I'm just really in this story for the ride with no set destination in mind. I dont wanna have too many expectations for something that I have no control over.

But I have a feeling it will only take a few more chapters for both of them to realize it's mutual. Ina was introduced to buffer up the environment. The ex bf came out for the final push.

If you look at the past progression, it's really not that far reach:
1-19: initial impressions, clearing misunderstanding, establishing foundation for their "friendship"
20-35: Norae's struggle and acceptance of her feelings
36-50: Seola's realization and acceptance of her past and current feelings
51-current: final push for the mutual realization/confession? (We're only at chapter 60. Maybe 5/6 more chapters?)
next arc (my guess 65-80/85): being embarrassed and awkward with each other and got over it. (15 chapters is too long for this lol)
final arc (my guess 80/85-100): dating and surrounding reaction?

Woa, the thought of re-reading all 100 chapters in one sitting on some beautiful Saturday next year already seems so satisfying to me

last edited at Jan 20, 2016 3:13AM

I think Sung-pyo appeared just to add some drama to the story and then go far, far away with a proper close of his character. Nothing to worry about. I like to think that after this ski trip they would know eachothers feelings. Maybe a more important obstacle to be explore is their families, I don't think No-rae's would be a big deal but I do think Seol-a's would. I think it's just because of my experience. I had (still have) a really big problem with my girlfriend's parents when they found out about our relationship. It was hard for them to see their only daugther dating another girl. Also taking into account that she had a boyfriend before it hit them even harder. The same happend to my bestfriend, her mother told her "it's hard for me, you have always had boyfriends and now you tell us you like girls too". It's hard for me not to make that parallel. It would be interesting to see what Seol-a's familly, who have always seen her with boyfriends, have to say about her having a girlfriend. It's such a common problem and yet one that I don't think has been explored enough in this kind of series.

PD: I'm sorry if my grammar isn't the best. I'm native spanish and I'm doing my best to put into words what I think. If there is something that is wrong I would appreciate a lot if you correct me.

@pulpolar
Yeah, I agree. Seol-a has been her whole family's center of attention. She's her parents' pride. Man, maybe we'll be in for some huge commotion and drama. But then Ssamba always resolved issues in a non-dramatic way :->

Hmm I didn't see these posts about Lily Love until someone mentioned this in shorter msg so I ctl+f title. And I wonder why... I know. Because I didn't have a reason to think we will discuss LL here because it's FLUTTERING FEELINGS thread :P sooo maybe next time could you write opinions about title there instead of text walls here xD?

Hmm I didn't see these posts about Lily Love until someone mentioned this in shorter msg so I ctl+f title. And I wonder why... I know. Because I didn't have a reason to think we will discuss LL here because it's FLUTTERING FEELINGS thread :P sooo maybe next time could you write opinions about title there instead of text walls here xD?

Not for negative comments though lol. No need to bring another intense heated argument over there

Not for negative comments though lol. No need to bring another intense heated argument over there

Fair enough :)

@ffins07

Hey you love each other it seems. And this is crazy, but you should just confess! Or, you know, drop hints?

As takachi and ieeheh said, people are different. There are people who don't do that. Some of them are reading this. You sound more confident about this than most people--females--with whom I've interacted.

How common is it for people to just confess? Especially girls? In Korea? In any country? Logically, yeah, seems like a thing to do, but when are (most) people in love (or in like) rational? Then there's the obvious liking-a-girl hanging in the back of their heads. That is still a thing for the vast majority of people.

Real life story time: My first ever class in college more than a handful of years ago was English. The professor made us sit in a reverse alphabetical arrangement. I sat beside this girl B who I was immediately attracted to. She tried to start a conversation because we actually had the same watch but different watch face colors. What did I do? Did I immediately confess to her that I had a crush on her? Nope. I tried my very best to be distant because we were taking the same course and I didn't want to make it awkward immediately since we'd be taking the same classes together for four years. I also wasn't sure if she swung that way or, even if she was bisexual or a lesbian, if she'd like me at all. She could have just been trying to be friendly. I didn't hang out with her regularly, even in the company of other people from our course, for a good eight months. Then one of my high school friends (who was also taking the same course) R started going out of her way to have us hang out with each other. At first it was the three of us all together, then eventually R started excusing herself out of hanging out last minute. Even when I was spending time with just B, I didn't tell her that I really really liked her. It took a really long phone call where we were both drunk in different parties for us to tell each other that we liked each other.

One reason why I was attracted to B was that she reminded me of this other girl A I liked back in high school. This reason was the same reason I tried to be distant. A had led me on back in high school and I didn't want to go through that again. Yes. People really do have baggage and that's one thing I appreciate about Ssamba showing us why Seol-a is actually very insecure when it comes to girls who befriend her. She has dealt with bitches and users before.

What I'm trying to say is that there really are people who take ages and ages before they confess to someone. There are even people who take ages before they realize they actually really like that person in the first place for whatever reason. I'm one of those people who unfortunately suffer from both afflictions. :P That's why I really like FF. I can see the flaws in this manhwa but I'm not really looking for the perfect story whenever I read manga or novels. All I'm hoping for is a good one. I just so happen to think that FF is a good story, despite its flaws.

In most other romance stories, manga, manwha I never know the characters well enough to relate. There are so many commonalities in human experience--take any two people living in developed countries, seriously--if you know someone else well enough, there will be many things to which you can relate. I'm not saying everything, just many things. We eat. We sleep. We feel. The way we react to things differ. Our experiences differ.

I rarely feel like I relate to characters in manga, manwha, books, whatever, so that I can relate to parts of FF makes it very special to me. Doesn't matter how many people like it or read it or whatever. And the story here is vivid such that I can feel empathy or compassion for parts of the story that I can't put in the context in my own life.

In a way, I'm more experiencing Fluttering Feelings and not reading it to be entertained. I tend to want to be immersed in a story. Not just drop-in and be entertained for a few minutes. That's my preference.

^ This. Just this. All of it.

last edited at Jan 20, 2016 7:49AM

Hmm I didn't see these posts about Lily Love until someone mentioned this in shorter msg so I ctl+f title. And I wonder why... I know. Because I didn't have a reason to think we will discuss LL here because it's FLUTTERING FEELINGS thread :P sooo maybe next time could you write opinions about title there instead of text walls here xD?

I just mentionned it as an example of "manga" not from Japan that could be compared to FF. Basically, two girls falling in love. And suddenly, some people started to attack LL.

I didn't even compare the drawing. And I didn't even say that LL what "cliche-free".

On the contrary, in my opinion, while LL is relatively average, it's better written than FF, because the cliches/tropes are used in a better way. And because LL tells the characters' journey in their relationship and do not dwell on their angst before the relationship actualyl starts. The pace is faster, but the author keeps it interesting while avoiding the hand-wrigging of angsty characters.

So, to go back to FF :

• Pace is too slow for the projected length. Meaning the part where they will be in an actual relationship (if ever) is going to be really short, or an ellipse (and they lived happily ever after...)

• Tropes/Cliches are used to slow down the pace and create unnecessary drama and angst. Plus, they are used multiple times. Ex-boyfriend-cockblocker, Twice. Accident? Thrice. Overheard conversation? Thrice. Third-party nodding knowlingly at their relationship? Twice (Ji-hwan and Enah).

• The trailing thoughts at the end of some chapters makes you think that the characters grew. But next arc, they don't act or say anything to show it. The arc with Enah was totally unnecessary in my opinion. Just a new character dropping a few words of wisdom. It could have been some friend here from the beginning. Someone you know the characters trust But no : perfect stranger butts in and bam, the characters have some sort of epiphany. Or not, since they don't say anything.

• Non-existent side characters. I can't recall for the life of me the name of the younger guy No-rae-like who was hitting on Seol-a. Or the name of No-rae's brother. Or of any of their friends for that matter. The only ones I can cite are Ji-hwan because he stayed a while around before disappearing completely after being rejected and Sung-pyo/Enah because they just appeared. I doubt any casual reader remembers anyone beside Seol-a, No-rae and the current characters hovering around them.

What I like, because I'm accused of being overly negative :

• The funny moments and the expressions of the characters. In these moments, they are really cute.

• A few emotional moments, like when Seol-a hugs No-rae after the bus accident.

• No-rae and Seol-a's personalities. They are both distinctive and likable in their own right.

All in all, I think Ssamba had really good characters but her storytelling skills didn't do them justice.

I will add my two cents n keep it short-

I just mentionned it as an example of "manga" not from Japan that could be compared to FF. Basically, two girls falling in love. And suddenly, some people started to attack LL.

I dont see attacks on LL. They r considered negative comments-u brought LL up. They didn't go to LL thread to spoil the fun. Btw LL is better written than FF? They r two different stories written by two authors who come fr different cultures & background. I don't care much for LL storyline. It is not RELATABLE. However, the drawings r awesome!

LL tells the characters' journey in their relationship and do not dwell on their angst before the relationship actualyl starts. The pace is faster, but the author keeps it interesting while avoiding the hand-wrigging of angsty characters.
- Pace is too slow for the projected length. Meaning the part where they will be in an actual relationship (if ever) is going to be really short, or an ellipse (and they lived happily ever after...)
- Tropes/Cliches are used to slow down the pace and create unnecessary drama and angst. Plus, they are used multiple times. Ex-boyfriend-cockblocker, Twice. Accident? Thrice. Overheard conversation? Thrice. Third-party nodding knowlingly at their relationship? Twice (Ji-hwan and Enah).

the journey Seola/Norae is going through called LIFE. If those who go through life without angst, heartbreaks, tears, regrets, ...then congrats to them. Though I'd rather continue on with my "journey"

Seola/norae have been "friends" less than a year. Neither one has experienced in this type of relationship ship. Is it long? Maybe to you but certainly not to me. The cliches/events in ff do happen in real life quite often really. I know a friendwho was involved in three accidents within 3 months (two accidents were not her fault, one accident occurred in another state). I can give tons of real life situations where certain people interpreted them as overused cliches

All in all, I think Ssamba had really good characters but her storytelling skills didn't do them justice.

Completely disagree. It is very uncool criticizing the author's storytelling skills bc YOU disagree with how the story should have progressed

last edited at Jan 24, 2016 2:25PM

On the contrary, in my opinion, while LL is relatively average, it's better written than FF, because the cliches/tropes are used in a better way. And because LL tells the characters' journey in their relationship and do not dwell on their angst before the relationship actualyl starts. The pace is faster, but the author keeps it interesting while avoiding the hand-wrigging of angsty characters.

What I'm getting is that you don't care for angst. Or drama, too much of it. And you don't mind lots of tropes, so long as...they are "used in a better way"... Well, the pace would be faster if it doesn't put much into building up the background of its characters. People's lives are messy, generally. Ha-ha.

So, to go back to FF :

• Pace is too slow for the projected length. Meaning the part where they will be in an actual relationship (if ever) is going to be really short, or an ellipse (and they lived happily ever after...)

If you don't consider this side of things a relationship, okay. So I disagree, but understand. Anticipating such disappointment isn't a motivator to read.

• Tropes/Cliches are used to slow down the pace and create unnecessary drama and angst. Plus, they are used multiple times. Ex-boyfriend-cockblocker, Twice. Accident? Thrice. Overheard conversation? Thrice. Third-party nodding knowlingly at their relationship? Twice (Ji-hwan and Enah).

Ha-ha. I guess if you already find the pacing frustrating, generally, the interrupted confession in the like were events for cursing.

Overheard conversation...?--Oh. I was trying to figure out how that was slowing things down. When a character overheard something and lost confidence. k

Ji-hwan was too perfect to me, period. So fine. But his character was supposed to be pretty intuitive. Plus, he loved No-rae. People in love with someone tend to notice more (if they're not just oblivious or whatever). With Enah, she's 1) older 2) similar to one of the people in the relationship 3) their feelings are further along (whether or not you acknowledge them) and not so hidden to someone looking at them with interested but open mind and 4) No-rae reminds her of her partner. In other words, I don't think it's odd at all that she figured something out; however, I did call out that "wise advice" giver trop when that arc started. I don't see how it slows things down though. Seems like you should've been cheering Enah. ha-ha. But trope, yeah.

• The trailing thoughts at the end of some chapters makes you think that the characters grew. But next arc, they don't act or say anything to show it. The arc with Enah was totally unnecessary in my opinion. Just a new character dropping a few words of wisdom. It could have been some friend here from the beginning. Someone you know the characters trust But no : perfect stranger butts in and bam, the characters have some sort of epiphany. Or not, since they don't say anything.

What friend? ...Okay, seriously. I'm pretty sure that the first person that figures out someone is gay varies by person, and if you don't assume a girl is a lesbian or bisexual or whatever, it's very possible it'll never cross your mind. I have no clue if this is even a thing in Fluttering Feelings, actually, but it is possible. And sometimes perfect strangers are the catalyst, especially for people going through their sexual orientation awareness development--or, for anyone really. But given that both of these girls don't have many close friends around...

Even with that, I think this last chapter was "nothing new", and then I definitely recall feeling disappointed at the lack of progress with No-rae at times. Multiple times. I can imagine that Seol-a could have succeeded in confessing and then we'd be...somewhere else. Not in this second part of the Enah arc, for sure. >__> But I enjoyed getting to know No-rae better (which happened in scenes following Sung-pyo's temporary arrival). And glad she didn't take that particular stroll down memory lane post-romantic relationship start.

• Non-existent side characters. I can't recall for the life of me the name of the younger guy No-rae-like who was hitting on Seol-a. Or the name of No-rae's brother. Or of any of their friends for that matter. The only ones I can cite are Ji-hwan because he stayed a while around before disappearing completely after being rejected and Sung-pyo/Enah because they just appeared. I doubt any casual reader remembers anyone beside Seol-a, No-rae and the current characters hovering around them.

I can remember them but wasn't looking for them and don't care. ha-ha. Again, what friends? Seol-a doesn't have them, kinda. We've met three of No-rae's. No-rae doesn't get close to many people. And there's family. Romance stories tend to focus on the two in the relationship. If there's some other major character around they are often either: the third part of the triangle, the "wise" friend or family member, childhood friend, or the third part of the non-triangle/third wheel. Ugh. I can't stand love triangles.

What does the presence of a side character have to do with good or bad story telling? If it's a feature you enjoy in a story, fine. But the presence of side character doesn't, in isolation, add narrative value.

What I like, because I'm accused of being overly negative :

• The funny moments and the expressions of the characters. In these moments, they are really cute.

• A few emotional moments, like when Seol-a hugs No-rae after the bus accident.

• No-rae and Seol-a's personalities. They are both distinctive and likable in their own right.

All in all, I think Ssamba had really good characters but her storytelling skills didn't do them justice.

Thank you for sharing, all of this, really. I think I better understand where you were coming from with your previous complaints. I was curious as to why you reading it with so many grumpy posts. Ha-ha.

I think a number of the things you've said indicate that you just don't care for this type of story, style-wise. You just don't like those aspects. That's fair, but presenting them as writing critiques is a bit...shaky? Still, you've definitely pointed out some opportunities for improvement. Whether or not a "real critic" (talk about a subjective task) would mark FF down for some of those things, they're a real impact on your reading experience, so 's'cool.

To me, the current arc is the weakest thus far, from a narrative standpoint, and I think it's unfortunate that we're reading it in the latter half. Hopefully, Ssamba tightens things up going forward. I think a confession or some other event that clearly transitions them into having a romantic relationship would appease most of us, but I want the writing to be strong too.

Anyway, thanks again, @Nya-chan, for sharing.

last edited at Jan 20, 2016 11:10AM