Is it possible to have another resizing option for webtoons? I believe the current resizing option is to whatever the original scanlators have it, and then the standard 1200px height. Some webtoons have very long panels/long width which makes this current resizing option illegible. I think a resize by width would be useful too for a better reading experience. 750px would be a good width I think.

I'd prefer if the insults directed toward me were removed from this thread.

That'd be the job of a moderator.

Here I was thinking mods are here to make sure threads aren't derailed...I must be getting old.

But seriously you can't expect to phrase things in such a patronising manner and expect not to ruffle some feathers. I'm expecting that we're all mature enough to realise actions have consequences. Everyone here needs to tone down the feelings jam a bit.

anonymous

kyra?? I must be seeing things. Time to get my eyes checked

Dearie me, never could tear myself away from such a stellar display of mental gymnastics.

last edited at Jan 19, 2016 8:51PM

Lol lilly love being well written and cliché free...I must be seeing things. Or not seeing them depending on how you look at it. Time to get my eyes checked

Torija

Did you guys started to translate WDFS on Lezhin again? I see that my overtoon is working on chapter 19.

Yes, we did. Kinda low key though since I don't want it to spread to /u/ like last time and I know those people are lurking here.

Chapter 18 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/18

bluebearies

thanks for the instructions on viewing the overlay on mobile (i am on ipad). but the chrome browser crashes like 5 seconds after the English appears. is that normal? :(

Yes, this is normal. It's exactly why I don't recommend reading WDFS say on mobile devices. They simply don't have the processing capability that a laptop/desktop has.

Chapter 17 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/17

Marjery
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/doonge/overtooning/master/overtooning.user.js

Click install, done. It's also on the first post of the first page...just scroll down.

Chapter 15 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/15

Special Chapter Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/n1

Chapter 16 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/16

---

Satsuki

I see we still haven't moved on from this topic, not that I have any complaints. It's quite pleasing to read about different POVs about Seju's character/intentions/persona.

Now that we've just 1-2 chapters away from catching up, I think this discussion will be less relevant as new details are revealed. For example what is Seju and Nammi's relationship. The way Nammi talked about her

makes me think something is up apart from just Seju being controlling if you can even call it that. Maybe they had some history.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 8:41AM

Satsuki

And lol at the person who brought up Zodiac signs. That was a good one!

Keep in mind that this story is set in Asia, where that sort of stuff is quite popular. E.g. blood types are a big thing in Japan so zodiacs may be an important feature. Also, since it's a work of fiction and the authors chose to give them those birth dates, it probably means something.

If you look at it then the characters fit the stereotypical description of their zodiacs quite well for example:
-Seju: Scorpio, known for being charming, dark, enigmatic, alluring, manipulative and often bent for revenge. Basically Seju to a T so no need to elaborate. Scorpios are fucking hot! Even if you don't believe in all this malarky.

-Sungji: Taurus known for being stubborn but honest and reliable. Think Sungji once she's set her mind on something for example skiving work to visit Sumin
-Sumin: Cancer known for being sensitive, unable to keep control of their emotions, yet quite kind and loving. This fits Sumin quite well as Sungji herself noticed, you just have to dig a tiiiiny bit deeper to see it.

I think the only reason Sumin doesn't have a lot of friends is because she's not a people person. She's kinda like a lone wolf. I think she's actually capable of having lots of connections if she wanted as from the chapter where she seduced red-haired girl, she's quite a cunning person

Yea, she's very emotionally closed off as Sungji pointed out in chapter 9. I can understand why Sumin/Seju's relationship has persisted for so long. If you're that emotionally closed off, it takes time for you to make friends/let people in to your life of course. It's tough for Sumin to find someone who knows her as well as Seju.

They've both seen each other at their worst and are still together. Even if they're not in love anymore, that's kinda a big deal. So it doesn't seem that strange that they haven't moved on. Like Sumin said in chapter 8, Seju was her first everything. And in the realm of manga/manhwa and I guess in real life as well sometimes, firsts hold a lot of weight. So what clairesun said,

I never imply it's seju who did this intentionally. It's the status of that kind of relationship which would necessarily lead to that result.

is right on the money.

It's a refuge, because sumin has no other choice (the reason described in the text above), and the refuge is somehow negative, the last straw she can hold is the one which would repeatedly remind her of her pain.

Again, you make very good points and your assessments are usually accurate. However, I have to disagree. I don't think Sumin has no choice, no choice would be someone forcing her, coercing her, a gun to her head saying 'You can't leave Seju!' but as we can all agree, that's not what's happening here. I think Sumin just decided conciously or not that what she has with Seju isn't worth throwing away until she can find someone better. Which she hasn't until maybe now with Sungji.

No, it's not fatal, it's just annoying for lovers or even friends and I don't see any respect here.

Bang, that's exactly another kind of control, if I know someone arranged this for me, I would feel really offended, even whom I love was in your plan, are u kidding me?

Yea, it's all about intent. For example match making in anime/manga where the protagonists are too shy to get together is considered desirable, even cute. However, this is not what Seju's doing in. In fact she might've even planned the whole thing out since she does own the company, and she does know Sumin's tastes so well.

But even with all that, even being the master schemer that she is, Seju cannot control people's emotions. If Sungji and Sumin fall in love, then it's entirely their own doing. Those feelings are theirs and theirs alone and Seju had no part in them. She only provided a few pushes here and there e.g. arranging for Sungji to be hired, etc...

So yea, I don't think Sumin is an

emotionally-dependent wreck

as we see on various occasions, she can be VERY pragmatic. maybe her relationship with Seju at this point boils down to nothing but cost benefit analysis. The benefits of staying with Seju clearly outweighs a loss.

It's Sumin decision to stay with Seju lawl, it's not like she's a dog on Seju's pink leash. Come on guys, she's an adult. She can find another job, heck MOVE TO ANOTHER TOWN away from Seju and her bull shit if she wants to. It's not like there's anything that was holding her back aside from the fact that she's in a very good place right now professionally and why would you leave that behind.

Wow that was really long but I thought I should just kinda balance things out again with this discussion.

halmoni

I personally think those sort of actions sound like something any sugar daddy would do for his plaything. I don't think they necessarily prove her "love" for Sumin. While we don't know too much about Seju's personality, I wouldn't be surprised if these were just tactics (including her devotion) that she used to control Sumin. Why find another person when you know your slave will come back to you, time and time again?

I think that's pushing it a bit too far. Whilst Seju is indeed scheming and manipulative, I think that does show that she's concerned for her. It doesn't need to be some grand gesture to show love, sometimes it's the small details. It's pushing it a bit too far in my opinion to imbue everything that Seju does with evil intent.

But isn't that a natural reaction? Everyone reacts differently to loss, and Sumin happened to react this way. It's nothing out of the ordinary. Priorities are priorities, but you can't really blame someone for wanting to shut themselves in after losing their parents. Sumin was only 24 after all. [...] Seju's impertinence and lack of understanding for Sumin were her own undoing, so I found it difficult to have any sympathy for her.

Yes everyone reacts differently to loss and I'm not saying that Sumin doesn't have the right to react the way she did. However, Seju does make some valid points. There will be challenges to overcome and sometimes you just have to pick yourself off and do what you're expected to do. The world is an unkind place you know, not everyone cares to hear your sob story. You'll constantly face setbacks and you'll have to dust yourself off, and I think that's kinda what Seju was trying to say.

If someone is in a state of depression, it's not your job to try and pull them out of depression with all of your might. It's your job (as a family member/friend/significant other) to listen to them, and to give them whatever they need, whether it's space, care, etc. So I understand that Seju had good intentions, but she really set up a recipe for disaster all on her own.

Here's where we disagree, I think sometimes if people care about you they have to be willing to say the things you don't want to hear. Does Sumin want to hear that she needs to pull herself together? Probably not. But there's no denying that Sumin needed to pull herself together. Studying abroad is a big decision, it can often be life-changing even. Not to mention it costs money and time and she just threw that all down the drain?

See, it's very hard to determine how long you should give someone to determine and at some point you have to make a decision. Do you let someone have more 'space' at the cost of them wasting their health and their life away like Sumin was doing, or do you be the bad guy and say the things they don't want to hear so they can snap themselves out. Seju evidently chose the latter but I don't think that diminishes how much she cares for Sumin.

Most people probably wouldn't bother to visit the graves of others' deceased family members lol. Rather than guilt, Seju is most likely the last person Sumin wants standing in front of her parents' graves.

Most people wouldn't bother, but Seju and Sumin aren't most people. I mean if the cheating hadn't happened, they would, by conventional standards be a married couple would they not. Their lives are very intertwined, they've known each other for so long, they've seen each other grow up, so I think it would be weirder if Seju doesn't visit Sumin's parents' graves. And yes, the 'potent symbol of guilt' I mentioned was exactly that. Seju doesn't visit Sumin's parents graves a) because she believes Sumin doesn't want her to (whether this belief is true or not we don't know)
b) because if she does visit, then she'll constantly be reminded of her indirect involvement in the accident.

It was actually Sumin who was concerned about Seju being too cold while waiting for her.

Oh yea you're right. Let's not split hairs here, but this doesn't invalidate my point or anything (it's quite a minor point anyway). Seju waited for her in the snow without an umbrella, asked if she had eaten since she knows Sumin has bad eating habits. There's also her insisting on giving Sumin a ride

Even if you don't like Seju as a character and don't endorse her relationship with Sumin, I find it hard to paint this scene in an evil light by saying it's something 'any sugar daddy would do'. From what I've seen, the evil sugar daddies or whatever, wouldn't care about the well-being of their partners, they'd only worry if their partner was so unhealthy that they were no longer attractive and/or physically incapable of fulfilling the sugar-daddies' wish.

Isn't it strange that for the past 10 years, Sumin was never able to find another long-term partner? The trauma she suffered from Seju was certainly damaging, but I think it's strange.

Yea, no doubt what Seju did to Sumin had severe consequences on her and impacted her ability to find another partner. But I think it's irresponsible to place the blame entirely on Seju. No one can pick you up. You have to do it yourself. You have to move on of your own volition and if Sumin hasn't been able to do that, that's on her, not on Seju.

Also, it's that point about comfort. 'The devil you know is better than the devil you don't'. And it's not as if Seju doesn't love or at least care about Sumin to a large extent. When you have someone like that, I think you'd want to move on less. Think about all the things that Seju can offer Sumin, sex, care, money, a job...

On top of that, she doesn't even need to treat Seju well to get those sorts of things! Imagine that! You can treat someone badly, or at least not be sweet and kind to them and they can still give you things! Why would you leave that?

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 2:19AM

Chapter 14 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/14

---

I haven't read everything on the topic of Seju yet but I just want to be clear on what my views of her are. As I've said Seju is an interesting character, much more so than Sungji in my opinion. This is because she's harder to read.

Seju is definitely not a 'damsel in distress'. Neither is Sumin and I think both sides of the argument need to acknowledge this fact. They both know what they're doing! I mean they're 34 for god's sake. Sumin isn't anymore Seju's 'belonging' or 'possession' anymore then Seju is Sumin's 'sugar daddy'. Both of these views are problematic.

That being said, Seju is the most 'dangerous' character in this series. She's the one you should be most wary of and for various reason, she can either make or break #Team Cinnamon Roll. Btw, I feel very proud for coining that lol.

TL;DR I'm a sucker for manipulative characters, especially if they're attractive. Seju adds spice to the story, if not it would just read like FF with the whole girl meets girl, girl falls for girl sort of thing.

She's definitely scheming something as both myself and halmoni has pointed out.

Also, the whole "devoted knight waiting for her soulmate in shining armor" scenario doesn't click with me because Seju is constantly asking Sumin about potential love interests, and she's always smirking when they talk about Sungji. She WANTS Sumin to get with Sungji. Where's the "devotion" in that?

Based on the discussion, I think we can both agree that the reason she is pushing Sungji/Sumin to be together is to test their relationship. If Sumin ends up falling hard for Sungji, which seems likely at this point, and then things don't work out then that would push Seju/Sumin to be together even more than before.

No doubt Sungji is the better person compared to Seju, her motives are pure. She's not one for scheming, you can see right through every single thing she does as opposed to Seju where you can only vaguely guess.

Here are some screenshots that make Seju seem very suspicious
1) This smile in ch2 when Sungji said Sumin's perfume fits Seju

This reaction could be something totally innocent, like Seju was pleased that Sumin's perfume matches her. But I think her motive behind this could be to mark Sumin as her 'territory'. You see this later in chapter 3 when Sumin tells her to stop using her perfume.

2) This smirk in ch9 when Sumin tells Seju directly as opposed to the roundabout way in ch4 that she is attracted to Sungji

Some might say that it's a sad smirk as she thinks her relationship with Sumin is about to go down the drains but I don't think this is the case. This is definitely the smirk of someone who knows that everything is going according to plan.

3) There's also this smile as Seju asks if she's wounded Sumin's pride.

It's kinda a backhanded compliment, on the one hand giving Sumin a gift that's to Seju's own taste and on the other hand also wounding Sumin's pride. It's probably payback for Sumin telling Seju to go away in chapter 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Seju's way of saying they're still compatible after all these years after the perfume incident as well as managing to choose a gift that Sumin likes, even though it's to Seju's taste.

4) This closeup as Seju calls Sungji a naive girl in ch14

5) This smile as Seju tells Sungji she can't always be there for Sumin

---

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, let's discuss some points that I thought were interesting/don't completely agree with from both sides of the argument.

last edited at Jul 9, 2015 1:48AM

anonymous

ONLY 4 IN A ROW?! Y U SO SLOW, CHPTER 12 WEN

LIKE NAO. RELEASE!
does anyone get this joke? i guess you wouldn't unless you were into the CLAMP flavour of magical girl anime

Meru

Amazing work from the team! Thank you guys so much!

Always a pleasure for readers as pleasant as yourself.

Edited comments to remove black bars now that the chapters mentionned are released. Don't be alarmed, didn't change any of the content.

---

Chapter 12 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/12

Chapter 13 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/13

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 10:08AM

Chapter 8 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/8

Chapter 9 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/9

Chapter 10 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/10

Chapter 11 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/11

---

KoutarouTatsumiya
You should take screen shots so halmoni, doonge or someone else can help you

Chapter 7 Release

www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/7

Ok, ok guys, as much as I love this discussion, let's simmer down a bit and not result to ad hominem attacks ok? Let's focus on the argument itself. Haven't had time to read all the discussion everything yet but I'll get round to it eventually.

Chapter 6 Release

http://www.lezhin.com/comic/what_does_the_fox_say/6

anonymous

itz gone! you never saw it! it never existed. was that a classic freudian slip? i mean i've joked about that 'crack' pairing a lot so maybe i've started to believe it.

I don't think it matters too much whether Sumin does or does not blame Seju for her parent's death. Simply put, Suju's belief that Sumin blames her is already enough to put a massive strain on their relationship. If you understand how insecurity works then you'd know what I mean. For example, when you are insecure, even if everyone tells you that you are good enough, you won't believe it. No external force, no amount of kind words or reassurances from other people will be enough for you to overcome this insecurity.

The only way for you to overcome insecurity is intrinsically. You have to believe in your heart of hearts that you're good enough. I think this applies to Seju. Even if Sumin tells her that she forgives her, I don't think Seju can forgive herself and still blames herself to this day. This is probably why she doesn't visit Sumin's parents' grave. It's such a potent symbol for her guilt. Granted, this is not a wise decision as Sumin has stated to Sungji that she was thankful for not spending that day alone again.

Also, I think the most important thing you have to remember about Seju at this point in the story is that she is the character out of the main trio that we know the least about. She's been barely given any character development (by that I mean a glimpse into how her mind works) beyond simply being a rich girl who is Sumin's love interest. We she what she did and not really why she did them. That, we can only assume and infer based on contextual clues.

The significance of this is that it's easy to paint Seju in a rather malicious light if you already have certain prejudices about her. For example, if you already support Sungji/Sumin from the start, it's rather easy to see Seju as the spawn of Satan if not the devil himself. Of course, it's a natural instinct to have certain prejudices about someone but it doesn't help that we barely know anything about Seju.

I hope Gaji treats Seju with some dignity and respect and doesn't just make her the 'antagonist' characters designed to make you support Sungji/Sumin even more. That would be bad story telling in my opinion and I'd surely be disappointed in this series if that was the case.

halmoni

idk, I thought the parts where Seju says cheesy stuff like "I just want to see you as much as I can blah blah" weren't said with romantic intentions. The feeling that I got was that it was more of a mocking reminder to Sumin that Seju still controls her life. Or something like that. And that's why Sumin got so pissed off at her.

Like I said, it's hard to tell at this point in time but as dawny pointed out, it's rather unfair to say Seju always has malicious intentions and doesn't care at all about Sumin. For example in chapter 2, we see her worry about Sumin being cold when she tells her that she shouldn't have waited since it's snowing so heavily.

On the topic of the 'I just want to see you as much as I can' scene, I interpreted Sumin's reaction as trying to bury her head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the facts. I think she just wants to pretend that Seju will always be a constant in her life as a kind of readily-available sex friend and Seju's reminder that she won't always be there shatters that illusion.

On a final note about how Seju treated Sumin during her depression I think she could've handled it better but the 'hey get over it already' remark was kinda the last resort because Sumin was throwing her life-plans out of the window.

Sumin is right in saying that it's not a life or death situation whether or not she studies abroad but her frivolous attitude at the time was really worrying. She was obvious neglecting many things during that period in her life. Her health, her relationship with Seju (shutting her out instead of letting her in) and she was also neglecting her own future plans. The future-plan the she had with Seju.

As a friend, a lover I think that would greatly concern Seju and she was willing to do anything at that point to pull Sumin out of her depression. She's tried being supportive and understanding and that didn't work. Now she's ill-advisedly tried to switch tactics by dosing out some tough words but that back-fired on her. It's not ideal but I think I understand where she was coming from

Wow that was a long analysis. Reminds of of when I had to write essays in EngLit

last edited at Jul 8, 2015 12:02AM

Before we go off-topic on names, I'm sure your questions can easily be answer a la google. As an Asian myself, I've never heard about avoiding using the first letter of names. In fact for families, a lot of the time you use names that start the same way or sound similar. E.g. Seol-a's brothers in FF I think?

Korean alphabets don't have 'characters' like Chinese and Japanese. Instead, vowels and consonants have their own symbol/character if you can call it that. And they are compounded. A simple google search would tell you this so this thread won't go off-topic.

Maybe the S-names in WDFS serves to link characters now that i think about it.

ChocolateCakeLover

yes, do it. get a job to read abou gay girls doing gay things. and yea, i talked to someone on tumblr abou the S names. might be something to do with the title, a fondness for sibilance perhaps?

Alextasha

No point in that since we'll catch up soon. I'd rather not have fragmented threads. I'll edit them once the chapter is released.

halmoni

Yes you're right in saying that the timing of Seju's infidelity adds a lot more weight to her actions and completely shattered Sumin. Like we've seen, in chapter 17, it was perhaps even a traumatic memory for her. I am not going to deny the gravity of what she did.

That being said, I think Sumin did some things that made Seju feel as though she was throwing their relationship in the trash. For example the incident with the ring is one thing but the fact that Sumin threw away all their plans to study abroad was more important. Someone else said this but if Seju was under the assumption that she and Sumin had broken up, that wouldn't have been entirely unlikely.

I think the timing was really bad. Seju made a mistake what would've perhaps registered as a 5 on the fuckup-o-metre but was magnified to a 10 under those circumstances that you've mentioned.

That being said, I also think it's important to consider the events before and after the incident. We know from chapter 10 that during that 1 month, Seju has done nothing but try to pull Sumin out of her funk and tell her to get her life back on track. Even with the ring incident, she swallowed her anger after seeing that Sumin was visibly upset and told her that she would discuss it at another time because Sumin was not in the right mindset.

What she did afterwards when she said 'You don't blame me for your parent's death do you?' really broke my heart. To see Seju's enormous guilt over her indirect involvement with Sumin's parents death was heartbreaking. I think that put an enormous strain on their relationship which, when compounded with the cheating, almost rendered their relationship irreparable.

I don't think Seju treated Sumin as a posession, the way I see it, they were both equally invested in the relationship at some point. Seju even made a cheesy/romantic comment in chapter 2. Still, I think it's hard to say who's more invested based only on things like that. For all we know, the differences could be chalked up to their personality. Sumin could just simply be bashful because she's only close to her parents and I believe she's an only child.

Seju on the other hand is likely to be a social butterfly (kinda like Seol-a) because she has many older siblings and is the heiress of a conglomerate, hence she might be used to social outings and is less shy/embarrassed. As I've said, this wouldn't matter too much and it's hard to tell who's more invested based on that alone.

From my viewpoint, I think Seju just wants to have Sumin in her life, even if it's in the debased version that it currently is. For example saying things like 'I just wanted to see you as much as possible before I left' and smiling so brightly when Sungji said that Sumin's perfume matches her.

HELL, SHE EVEN BUILT A SQUASH COURT JUST BECAUSE SUMIN LIKES SQUASH! She takes Sumin out for dinner and respects Sumin's personal space as evident by how she leaves Sumin alone in the anniversary of her parents' death. Granted it may not be a good decision but it may be that Seju believes that Sumin doesn't want her there because Sumin still blames Seju for her parents' death

Either way, Seju/Sumin is full of angst whilst Sungji/Sumin will be filled with fluff. I'm sure even if Sungji/Sumin has angst, it won't even compare to the angst that is Seju/Sumin. Maybe I'm just a sucker for angst.

clairesun

probably not, after chapter 14, i think sumin can be really open to talk with seju. At least, it not totally impossible if seju wants to explain.

I think Sumin separates/compartmentalises what she does and doesn't tell Seju. The really important things such as how she's feeling she won't say. E.g. her budding feelings for Sungji. There was a lot of denial as you can see in chapters 3/4.

What she tells Seju can be considered 'small-talk'. Gossipy kinda thing, like the details of her life and what's happened. But she won't let Seju in any further than that.

It's totally possible for Seju to want to explain of course but Sumin might just not want to listen. Or even if she listens, she doesn't forgive? Doesn't accept? In any case she might refuse to move on and come to a proper resolution after Seju tells her the circumstances behind chapter 11.

The reason that I doubt this has happened is because it seems kinda unlikely that they're stuck in this mess when they've had an open, honest conversation where they discuss what's at stake and how to move forward.

last edited at Jul 4, 2015 1:46PM