99% of time in a yuri manga with het / bi, yuri end is the most suitable and wanted, because it's usually the purest / most honest / where the real love lies.

But you see, this is a misconception. Lesbian relationships can be as nasty as everyone else. The trope of the abusive bf in yuri stories is just lame. It's as if the story says that a girl has to be abused to decide and date another girl instead of a guy. Or that this guy "turned" her lesbian. And I'm not referring to Fujiwara here, who is also abusive. Because Hotaru already likes Yuma, so him doesn't play a part to Hotaru forming her feelings. He is here as a projection of Hotaru secretely hating herself and thinking she deserves this.

Takeda does love Yuma, he doesn't just want to sleep with her. When Fujiwara told him to find a new gf, he said he is not that type of guy and can't just switch his feelings off like that because he really likes Yuma. (that scene where they were eating at McDonald's)
But that shows how the love sould be mutual, and even if someone makes everything right, this still doesn't mean they can win over a person's heart.

If Hotaru and Yuma get together in the end, I think there will be some different development in their relationship instead of Hotaru controling Yuma. Yuma has shown multiple times that she likes Hotaru this way as well, even if she doesn't realise it.
I wasn't expecting much, but after I saw Hotaru distancing herself from Yuma, I think she can also stop when it's necessery. So far after that chapter where she said she gives up and wants to move on, we haven't seen her doing the same stuff she did to Yuma in the past.

As for the angst, there is a difference between good and pertinent angst / drama, and dumb angst just for .. angst ?
That's good angst. Too.
That's bad, or rather useless angst.

So, good angst is when it ends well.
Bad angst is when it ends badly.

And anyway, I think you're missing out by not reading this. There's some kind of reversal in progress, where Yuma tries to keep Hotaru close when she tries to distance herself.

Takeda is just there to show that Yuma is a lot more obsessed with Hotaru than with him.

Hotaru NTR'd him (hence, the title), but it was something that Yuma already had in her unconsciously. That's the whole gist of the story.

I've dropped it; reading the comments is enough to know what happens.

So then if you've stopped reading why are you still watching the comments? Why not read something you enjoy instead of the thoughts/ opinions of people reading something you don't?

I've dropped it; reading the comments is enough to know what happens.

So then if you've stopped reading why are you still watching the comments? Why not read something you enjoy instead of the thoughts/ opinions of people reading something you don't?

Is this forbidden ?

And I've read basically everything original tagged yurion this site; which is why I happened to read things I like and things I didn't. Thanks for your solicitude, however.
While I did not enjoy this manga at all, I still find it, and more precisely the opinion of people who enjoyed it, interesting. And even if I don't agree with them, I like to discuss with other users about it, because they might point out something I missed in this manga, or highlight an aspect I didn't get that could bring me, if not to like, to hate it less.

Or is that also forbidden ?

So, good angst is when it ends well.
Bad angst is when it ends badly.

@Nya-chan

I should have picked more relevant examples. Here's one more pertinent that should satisfy you.

last edited at Sep 27, 2016 3:18PM

If you are open to the idea of hating it less, maybe try to read chapter 9. Hotaru gets better after that. And honestly, I changed my mind about her after that chapter too.
If she kept on doing the stuff she did in the first chapters I don't think I'd like her. But after that you can see how she is not just manipulative, she is also someone who is hurt and tries to find the best way to survive in the situations presented to her. So it's easier to see things from her pov as well.

I've dropped it; reading the comments is enough to know what happens.

So then if you've stopped reading why are you still watching the comments? Why not read something you enjoy instead of the thoughts/ opinions of people reading something you don't?

Is this forbidden ?

Ofc, it's fine, but more like
From my pov, there's been more development lately (with later chapters, which you probably didn't read since you dropped it), so I feel that, some of the arguments you've brought up, are like... not as solid, in light to Hotaru's character. Like she's still dubious, but like.. idk, I personally never disliked her.
I'm not victim blaming, but Yuma never concretely asked her to stop, iirc? Like, she slapped her once, because it was too risky and she got tilted, but like? Hotaru's doing as much as she thinks she can get away with, and wow Yuma's letting her get away with a lot.
While Hotaru's sexual harassment is like, a pretty bad thing in retrospective, Hotaru's never done anything with the intention of hurting Yuma. Yuma's relationship failed because of her own growing insecurities, how she was putting Hotaru before Takeda (making him feel insecure as well). Like, I don't think Hotaru had a genuinely negative impact on Yuma, she just made her really sexually confused.

If you are open to the idea of hating it less, maybe try to read chapter 9. Hotaru gets better after that. And honestly, I changed my mind about her after that chapter too.
If she kept on doing the stuff she did in the first chapters I don't think I'd like her. But after that you can see how she is not just manipulative, she is also someone who is hurt and tries to find the best way to survive in the situations presented to her. So it's easier to see things from her pov as well.

Obviously character development tbh. If an important character does like, antagonistic/sketch ass shit, and leaves you with a meh impression of them, it's like, almost granted, that they'll get development to redeem them somewhat/explain shit. (it's like those hot bad boys you see in shoujo a lot, that are often given a kinder side later)
It's a common development, which ppl can choose to hate on, but I don't think it really matters, that's just the way characters like that are often written/shown to us.
Sure she's manipulative, but like, she's not a bad person or anything. (Main thing is probs that she middle key disregards Yuma's relationship, but she isn't trying to break them up) Seeing as to how oblivious and dense Yuma still is, I'm not sure how more sexually direct Hotaru could be, unless she straight up confessed or something, but she can't do that, she doesn't seem like she has any expectations for it to work out or anything

While I did not enjoy this manga at all, I still find it, and more precisely the opinion of people who enjoyed it, interesting. And even if I don't agree with them, I like to discuss with other users about it, because they might point out something I missed in this manga, or highlight an aspect I didn't get that could bring me, if not to like, to hate it less.

Oh yeah, this was totally fun. A week ago I'd say this manga is like, low/high key a mess, but as I reread it and discussed it with you/others, I realise that it's my guilty pleasure, I do wanna see how it pans out.
Kinda funny, that trying to justify how I don't think it's that horrible, made me realise that like shit, I sorta like it

last edited at Sep 27, 2016 9:26PM

Netsuzou trap?....

Netsuzou.....trap?....

....trap?......

HUH?!!!!! IT'S A TRAP!!

Progress! Woohoo!

Also, Takeda should have moved on a while ago.

Hotaru rused him to use him to make Yuma feel less stressed.

Still despite he broke with Yuma the author doesn't lets him move on.

He's a male character in a yuri manga. He will not get much sympathy from me.

Good for you

^
As much as I hate heterosexuality in my yuri [and Kodama Naoko's stuff]; I don't get this animosity towards the only [yet] non-fucked up character. Having a Y chromosome doesn't make you a jerk, even if lots of men in yuri are.
And personally speaking, I don't consider this as a yuri. Sure, it involves two girls, but it's way too fucked up, it nearly gives me nausea.

I'll make enemies here, but for me, in this manga, the happiest end would be a het one (and god knows how this line is surprising from me) with Takeda and the dumb blonde-haired girl. The other two manipulative jerks just deserve sorrow and pain.

He is a boy, of course he will be hated by the fact he exists, some will claim they don't hate him and pretend he is boring or something else to mask the animosity, it usually shows when some can't even hide the ill words chosen to post, it naturally slips through. If the author decides to make him go nasty have no doubt they'll jump out from the closet with their torches and forks ready.

Btw, new chapter, Takeada worrying about Yuma who worries about Hotaru who in turn ruins her Yuma's image with her mother but all goes well for her. That last page, I call it bait until proven otherwise.

Yaoi-style consent issues in a yuri manga

Hahaha, sad but true.

last edited at Sep 27, 2016 9:41PM

Is this forbidden ?

Of course not, but once you have your mind made up about something and see things in a certain way it's really hard to change that, just like the person above saying Hotaru ruined Yuma's image to her mom when Hotaru was most definitely trying to make Yuma quit that job by getting her mom scold her about skipping prep school because Hotaru doesn't want Yuma "working in a place like that" like she said so herself.

And it's not like you'll get sympathy from people who actually like the manga and still read it by coming here to post how you'd like to end in het because in your opinion it'd be the better end.

Chapter 12 translation.
http://imgur.com/a/XWG7e

Sweet bro! Thanks for this, you´re always delivering I really appreciate it.

As messed up as their relationship is I just can leave this alone... guess I´m a sucker for pretty art and naughty girls.

makes / u / scanlations further?

If the author decides to make him go nasty have no doubt they'll jump out from the closet with their torches and forks ready.

I think this is a bit of a strech. It's not the fact that he is a guy, it's the fact that he supposedly poses a threat to the main relationship. But most people know this is actually not true, so I don't think they secretely hate him. Just look at Fujiwara. He is the ultimate asshole, yet people get angry with Hotaru more. Because Fujiwara is not a threat to the main pairing.

Takeda is the nicest here, and I personaly don't want to see him getting crazy too. We need some diversity of characters and if he becomes yandere or something this will feel too flat. They don't exactly use him, it mostly just happens because of the situations. And Hotaru was trying to fix this situation between him and Yuma.

Also I wanted to say that this manga has exactly the right amount of fanservice imo.

I think this is a bit of a strech. It's not the fact that he is a guy, it's the fact that he supposedly poses a threat to the main relationship.

Totally, yep, and I know it's my own bias, but now that I thought it through + recent chapters, I think that Hotaru would probably be very good with Yuma, as a girlfriend. It sounds crazy/far fetched but if you look at everything she does, the times when she isn't hitting on her, she's being very caring and supportive, even if she does it in a mischievous way. Or moody and distant, but idk ppl do that sometimes when things happen

But most people know this is actually not true, so I don't think they secretely hate him.

idk what you mean here, in relation to the previous sentence

Just look at Fujiwara. He is the ultimate asshole, yet people get angry with Hotaru more. Because Fujiwara is not a threat to the main pairing.

Uh idk, I remember quite a few angry reactions when it was hinted that he'd beat/was abusive with Hotaru, and when he tried(/still trying?) to blackmail them
People do hate him, but it's like, a different sentiment. He's like a personal threat to the girls. Ppl hate him, but for different reasons. His blackmail thing is like a subplot

Also I wanted to say that this manga has exactly the right amount of fanservice imo.

I wish lmao, there's quite an amount. I'm not complaining too much but there's quite a few times they had to strategically censor nudity (boob against boob = nipple censoring)

last edited at Sep 28, 2016 11:28AM

idk what you mean here, in relation to the previous sentence

I mean that since Takeda is not a real threat to the main couple, I don't think there is a reason to secretely hate him just because he is a guy in a yuri manga.

Uh idk, I remember quite a few angry reactions when it was hinted that he'd beat/was abusive with Hotaru, and when he tried(/still trying?) to blackmail them
People do hate him, but it's like, a different sentiment. He's like a personal threat to the girls. Ppl hate him, but for different reasons. His blackmail thing is like a subplot

Of course they hate him, I don't like him either. But it's not like we drag it for weeks and only talk about this. I think the focus is not on his actions now.

As for the fanservice, I think it's better to censor some stuff. I'm speaking from my own liking of course. I don't like the hentaish stuff or show everything, and stuff with too much fanserice. It gets boring and meaningless after a while.
On the other hand, completely dry of fanservice is not the best either (like not even kissing), so to me personally something like NTR is the best amount of fanservice.
I also don't get this thing when people get dissapointed when the nipples are censored. I mean, the whole damn thing is showing lol, there is not much of a difference with or without that dot (nipple). Always in my opinion of course.
Because its purpose is to built the tension, not to be hentai.

No no no no no I don't mean that I want more, I'm not saying that I want the nipples uncensored, I mean that the level of fanservice is to the point that everything has to be strategically censored just right to even be allowed to be illustrated, so technically, it's like, barely sfw nudity. I was implying that there's a hell lot of fanservice. I wasn't "not complaining" about being disappointed at the nipples being censored, I'm commenting on how it's kinda awkward that it gets to that point. You don't see the nipples, but you know Hotaru's freely interacting with them
I think there's kinda too much. The way they're drawn is very male gazey, the girls are eye candy. Ofc, the story is smut, fanservice is to be expected, it's kinda the point, so I'm not complaining, it fits the kind of story it wants to tell

Well, I can appreciate hentai levels of nudity too. They're just aiming at different demographics tho. NTrap is smut, not porn, so that's the level of nsfw we have. If something is straight out porn, it better be nsfw lmao. If something is about plot, feels, idk, that it's supposed to be sfw, well that's fine too, that's just the kind of story it is

I see what you mean, but it depends on the type of echii. NTR in particular seems to be female friendly as well though.
I don't find it too much, but maybe it's just me. When something is mostly male targeted, it feels like the drawings are more messy and over the place. Like too much going on in one picture.
For example, Valkyrie Drive type of echii.

Having a deep story, with a real and solid plot, about feels, love, maturing and other themes like that, and the concerned story being NSFW aren't incompatible, on the contrary.

It's not about explicit content and nudity, but how it is used, drawn and depicted. One two of the best yuri ever (IMHO) contain NSFW scenes and it just makes those stories better, because it is amazingly executed and it serves the plot. Yes, I'm talking about these two.

Even some oneshots hentai-ish can have a deep vibe, even if it's just a vibe and it's ofcourse nto the point of such stories.

NSFW, and even some porny stuff, aren't male targeted.

And it's not like you'll get sympathy from people who actually like the manga and still read it by coming here to post how you'd like to end in het because in your opinion it'd be the better end.

Strangely enough, I don't remember having wanted to get sympathy. People might or might not agree, but nothing prevents them to remain polite [and courteous].

last edited at Sep 28, 2016 1:20PM

No no no no no I don't mean that I want more, I'm not saying that I want the nipples uncensored,

I, for one, want more uncensored nipples. Tastefully, of course.

last edited at Sep 28, 2016 1:26PM

For those who would like to reread or catch up:
Netsuzou Trap Chap 8 https://imgur.com/a/EAnw1
 Netsuzou Trap Chap 9 https://imgur.com/a/Mr7j2
 Netsuzou Trap Chapter 10 https://imgur.com/a/S5x9d
 Netsuzou Trap Chapter 11 https://imgur.com/a/LDXQz
 Netsuzou TRAP chapter 12 by CHAOSTEAM https://imgur.com/a/XWG7e

Having a deep story, with a real and solid plot, about feels, love, maturing and other themes like that, and the concerned story being NSFW aren't incompatible, on the contrary.

Of course. But NTrap isn't a deep story. At least, it wasn't written to be one, just dramatic, ecchi fun

It's not about explicit content and nudity, but how it is used, drawn and depicted. One two of the best yuri ever (IMHO) contain NSFW scenes and it just makes those stories better, because it is amazingly executed and it serves the plot. Yes, I'm talking about these two.

There are many "kinds" of story that would have nsfw .-. I was thinking of NTrap in particular, not applying it to everything
A plot with nsfw isn't necessary porn ofc

last edited at Sep 28, 2016 1:47PM

When are next chapters ? :(

The roughs are up to date, ch12 is the latest published chapter.
13 should be out in the next issue of Yuri Hime, to be published in a couple of days actually, you lucky impatient bastard

When are next chapters ? :(

Oh hai Sumin, thanks for making our lives difficult xD joking

Raws are on the 18th, also heard this will be every month from now on. Like Citrus

Okay, sorry if I disturbed about it, it's not my intention, I just wanted information
I love this website so I checked all everyday :p
In any case thanks for your work :)

https://twitter.com/comic_natalie/status/798345040200286208

Is somebody capable of accurately translating this? I think it says that they're animating Citrus along with Netsuzou Trap, but it would really suck to be wrong about this.