I think those basic points have already been made here in some detail:

• As informed appreciators of what the author has accomplished here, we understand that it is right and just that the story end, soon, entirely on her own terms.

• As greedy consumer monkeys, we’ve found something that arouses our pleasure centers and all we can think about is about pressing the food bar for more, more, more, in perpetuity.

I go back and forth. lol

Well I haven't seen the writer's side brought up yet. Only that the quality would decrease if she kept pushing on. I have more sympathy with the author than the audience most of the time, so that might be my personal issue. A story's integrity usually trumps my desire for more (unecessary sequels always make me groan when they are announced, even if they turn out good).

But the monkey in me always gets riled up when things go the "wrong" way, so I ain't any better.

I agree, please no continuation of YagaKimi. I want to remember it as a great series. All continuations screw up the original story sooner or later :-((( I cry in the corner every time a new chapter of WDTFS comes out and don’t want to do the same with this one.

I think people really underestimated the weight of what they're asking for. Majority of manga is written with idea of continuing it indefinitely, as long as it's popular, and as soon it isn't, it gets axed. Stories that are written with clear goal in mind and aren't meant to be constantly drag out, are very few and far between. People really should appreciate the fact that Nakatani isn't force to continue it, just because it's popular and is able to finish it on her own terms. Too often that's the downfall of great mangas, that weren't allowed to end, and over time their quality went down significantly, until they were axed and weren't able to end on satisfying note.

matsuri_wins posted:

All continuations screw up the original story sooner or later :-(((

cough Motto Hanjuku Joshi cough

last edited at Sep 4, 2019 12:51PM

I agree, please no continuation of YagaKimi. I want to remember it as a great series. All continuations screw up the original story sooner or later :-((( I cry in the corner every time a new chapter of WDTFS comes out and don’t want to do the same with this one.

I am often surprised that some forced sequels turn out good and have been wrong countless times due to that, but it is always safer to end it on a high note instead of gambling for the miraculous masterpiece sequel/prequel. It's even rarer in very self-contained narratives like YagaKimi.

I never thought WDTFS was any good to begin with anyway

I think people really underestimated the weight of what they're asking for. Majority of manga is written with idea of continuing it indefinitely, as long as it's popular, and as soon it isn't, it gets axed. Stories that are written with clear goal in mind and aren't meant to be constantly drag out, are very few and far between. People really should appreciate the fact that Nakatani isn't force to continue it, just because it's popular and is able to finish it at her own term. Too often that's the downfall of great mangas, that weren't allowed to end, and over time their quality went down significantly, until they were axed and weren't able to end on satisfying note.

This.
The manga industry was never focused on telling good stories, but rather milking every property to the last drop. I can really not fathom why anyone wants to become a mangaka. Bad pay, bad treatment and forced to sell your integrity for the sake of stretching things beyond reasonable limits. Nobody ever gives the big ones the credit they deserve for being able to churn out high quality stuff for decades on a weekly basis.

A clear planned out plot from beginning to end that does not get meddled with is a rare blessing. Especially in the hands of a great writer.

last edited at Sep 4, 2019 12:55PM

I meant from a literary point of view. The first few volumes built up a number of conflicts that shaped the plot. Things like Touko hiding her true self behind a mask and acting like her sister, or Yuu thinking she's incapable of falling in love then falling for someone she can't confess her feelings to, not to mention the love triangle with Sayaka's feelings.

All of that is already resolved in the story. There aren't many remaining issues to address for the main couple (though some side characters still have unresolved plot points).

So, as far as storytelling goes, the main plot is over. Anything that happens now is relatively minor compared to the overarching concept of YagaKimi (and I think that includes everything after the confession scene in the student council room). And I don't think an author of the caliber of Nakatani-sensei would drag a story on just for the fluff.

(Also, everyone please do stop with the passive agressive replies. It doesn't make you look smart or superior, just >conceited.)

You are absolutely correct. The main "conflicts" Nakatani built her story around are resolved. As such, the narrative of Bloom into You is finished and concluded. Anything more would have to be an entirely new story with the same characters, which can be perfectly fine if the author feels like doing it (and not just for monetary gain) and can deliver good quality, at least well above fanfiction level.

Think spin-offs or late continuations. They can be great, but often aren't, especially when the prime motivation is making more money and telling a story is just a vessel.

If Nakatani had an inner urge to eventually write new stories about Touko and Yuu, I'm sure they'd be nice stories. If she properly set another clear goalpost for a new story arc instead of just plodding along ad infinium, she might end up creating another marvelous piece of art.

If she doesn't feel like expanding on Touko and Yuu, that's gonna be fine as well. She's given us way more than we could reasonably have expected already.

Also lol @Matsuri-wins' posts.

Edit:

I am often surprised that some forced sequels turn out good and have been wrong countless times due to that, but it is >always safer to end it on a high note instead of gambling for the miraculous masterpiece sequel/prequel. It's even rarer >in very self-contained narratives like YagaKimi.

Yeah, I've seen excellent sequels to completed stories, but continuing a masterpiece in a manner worthy of the original is difficult. Drawing another parallel to the novel series I mentioned, the Black Jewels, the author has written seven continuations and spin-offs to her original trilogy, and only the (currently) final one, published eleven years after the trilogy originally concluded, was of the same quality, and not throughout as well. (Gosh darnit, just found out that she's still not quitting despite providing the absolutely perfect ending to her story already. Probably should have left it there).

last edited at Sep 4, 2019 1:01PM

Im shaking right now, I half expected that thing to happen. I just didnt expect Yuu to be the top like, what? Its like a lost cinnamon roll taking advantage of a shy dog. But still I'm inlove with unexpected endings.

Has anyone made the pun yet that we had another true climax during what should be denouement after the story's already culminated?

If not, here you go.

Ladies and gentleladies, keep it on topic please. People have been banned for less.

Honestly this is one of the only series I've read where I feel like I'll be satisfied with the ending, and i won't be craving for more chapters/content because the story is just so well constructed and rounded. I feel like I can find solice and peace with the ending, everything was just so neatly arranged and handled... This really makes you 'feel' like an ending. What good story telling can do, damn.
Why we were ever blessed with Nakatani, I don't know. But thank you Godoka for blessing us.
Hopefully Nakatani will bless us with more yuri in the future.

last edited at Sep 4, 2019 9:45PM

omfg they actually did the deed. i think im gonna cry in happiness now

OK ok ok

One more silly joke.

Touko and Yuu have just come out to the Koito family. Rei walks up to Touko and says:

• "So, you're my sister's lesbian girlfriend, huh?"
• "Um, yeah, thanks for accepting me."
• "Well, you do Yuu, I guess."
• "Did you just..."

And thus Touko, Yuu and her parents stood there, dumbstruck, mouths agape.

last edited at Sep 5, 2019 8:28AM

^ Pls make more.

^ Pls make more.

Or stop. Stop also works.

Like I said, I am very saddened that the 4s translation didn't keep the horrible Yuu puns. The version I read first had at least 3 of those in one chapter. It was terribly terrific.

last edited at Sep 5, 2019 9:55AM

Long have we waited

Like I said, I am very saddened that the 4s translation didn't keep the horrible Yuu puns. The version I read first had at >least 3 of those in one chapter. It was terribly terrific.

Honestly I've not been enjoying them in the manga proper. As gags in the community, sure, but I was always a bit put-off by them in the manga, and unsure whether it was some Japanese convention they tried to emulate in the English version or just a silly pun.

Honestly I've not been enjoying them in the manga proper. As gags in the community, sure, but I was always a bit put-off by them in the manga, and unsure whether it was some Japanese convention they tried to emulate in the English version or just a silly pun.

How could you deny the cringy brilliance of this?

This is what Nakatani would have wanted.

^ Pls make more.

Or stop. Stop also works.

Why was it you of all people that decided to rain down on my parade?

^ Pls make more.

Or stop. Stop also works.

Why was it you of all people that decided to rain down on my parade?

I don't think Blastaar's being quite serious.

@BD
yeah, that one didn't survive in my personal edit, but I was seriously considering whether I should keep it.

When addressing another person they have a close relationship with or have respect for, Japanese people often use the other person's name or honorific (like "senpai" or "sensei") instead of using equivalents of "you" (kimi, anata, omae, or what have you). Touko addresses Yuu as Yuu on a regular basis & did literally say "Yuu and I" in Japanese 侑と私. Yuu's name just happens to make it punny. I won't deny that we intentionally left her name in some sentences just because. But the "Yuu and I" one would have been translated the same even if Yuu's name was different just to keep the sentiment of what Touko said in highlighting them as individuals even when they are a couple.

Oh I'm quite aware that it was supposed to be that way in that sentence. Which is why Nakatani would have loved the irony that it is also a pun.

But in a Western context you don't speak of people in third person in such a stilted way in all other cases... like this one.

^ Pls make more.

Or stop. Stop also works.

Why was it you of all people that decided to rain down on my parade?

I don't think Blastaar's being quite serious.

@BD
yeah, that one didn't survive in my personal edit, but I was seriously considering whether I should keep it.

It was actually aimed more at Zormau’s parade, BV, but we’re all free agents here, so pun away until the authorities step in. lol

Cringe-y puns are always a “Yes, but actually no” deal for me, complicated in this case by the bizarre Japanese treatment/non-treatment of personal pronouns.

English being a rather blunt instrument in many respects, “you” puns are somewhat uncommon but essentially straightforward, since we use personal pronouns all the time. In Japanese, like everything else: it’s . . . complicated.

https://people.umass.edu/partee/MGU_2009/papers/Ponamareva.pdf

So in translations of YagaKimi, such puns amount to, “If Japanese used personal pronouns in such situations, which they generally don’t, Yuu’s name would be a homonym for the personal pronoun if they were speaking English, which they aren’t.”

But then, my favorite Korean singer/actress is IU, so go figure.

But in a Western context you don't speak of people in third person in such a stilted way in all other cases...

And that is what I consider the difference between a translated and a localized version. Looking beyond the linguistic and cultural idiosyncrasies of the original and doing what actually works and exists in the target language and culture. Obviously: YMMV. Tastes are different. There is no perfect translation or localization that works for everyone. The original isn't perfect for everyone either.
Hence my omission of honorifics - they're just not a thing in either German or English, so they're dropped, or rather replaced. Calling back to Marissa Lenti's script for the anime again, I think she's done a stellar job for the most part, even with the scene in chapter 11/episode 7 (?) where names and honorifics become the main subject of dialogue. She instead goes for nicknames, which isn't quite as easy to consistently implement, but works out pretty well. For that episode, it would have worked out perfectly if she'd thought to have Touko refer to Yuu as "Yuu, dear" instead of just having Sayaka remark that "something feels off" in general.
Since I read the manga with the voices of Tia Ballard as Yuu and Luci Christian as Touko, I must confess it was slightly awkward to have Yuu say "Touko. Darling." during the wakeup in chapter 44. It works, but the throwback to Darling in the Franxx, in which Ballard also did a fantastic job as the female lead, is certainly there.

And Blastaar, don't worry, no more silly jokes until another one comes to mind. So it could be in five minutes, or five months, or never.

last edited at Sep 5, 2019 1:20PM

Hence my omission of honorifics - they're just not a thing in either German or English, so they're dropped, or rather replaced. Calling back to Marissa Lenti's script for the anime again, I think she's done a stellar job for the most part, even with the scene in chapter 11/episode 7 (?) where names and honorifics become the main subject of dialogue. She instead goes for nicknames, which isn't quite as easy to consistently implement, but works out quite well. For that episode, it would have worked out perfectly if she'd thought to have Touko refer to Yuu as "Yuu, dear" instead of just having Sayaka remark that "something feels off" in general.

Sorry, this just doesn't fly with me. It was a blatant error on the localisation's part and ignorant of the cultural context. I'm the last person to care about honorofics in almost any context, but when it is essential to the plot or the dynamic, I will not overlook it.
That decision entirely made me feel like the localisation team did either not read/watch ahead (which they really should!) or that they were willing to sacrifice integrity of the original work for an ill-conceived attempt at keeping away from having to use last names at all costs.

If you do not have an equivalent word for a food dish in English, you don't just substitute it with something else. If someone suddenly called Okonomiyaki "grilled pizza" I would first laugh and then facepalm.

Making it more agreeable to the dub watcher's ears is certainly the goal of a localization, but not by sacrificng the sense of the original. Nicknames were not at all acceptable for Yuu and Touko's relationship at that point and simply changed their characters. That is a negative alteration. Influencing the audience's perception of what the source material says is a heavy responsibility that should never be abused, lest we get nonsense like the "I am not into girls or dragons" line by Kobayashi in the dub of Dragon Maid or the "we are cousins" nonsense in Sailor Moon.

last edited at Sep 5, 2019 1:40PM

Sorry, this just doesn't fly with me. It was a blatant error on the localisation's part and ignorant of the cultural context. I'm the last person to care about honorofics in almost any context, but when it is essential to the plot or the dynamic, I will not overlook it.

Like I said, YMMV. I accept your standpoint as yours, but don't see a good enough reason to adopt it for myself.

Nicknames were not at all acceptable for Yuu and Touko's relationship at that point and simply changed
their characters.

Remember, it's being localised into a culture that is not Japanese. As such, nicknames are perfectly acceptable early in a relationship. Many people start using them pretty much from the get-go. It would be similarly acceptable for Touko to refer to a junior student and friend as "XYZ, dear" as it is for a senpai to refer to a kouhai by their first name. Less hierarchical, probably, but then again: the target culture is less hierarchical to begin with.

That is a negative alteration. Influencing the audience's perception of what the source material says is a heavy responsibility that should never be abused, lest we get nonsense like the "I am not into girls or dragons" line by Kobayashi in the dub of Dragon Maid or the "we are cousins" nonsense in Sailor Moon.

I rarely use absolutes as factual statements, but no matter how close the translation is, you are never reading or watching the source material, unless you've got near-native skills in the source language and culture and are thus actually reading/watching the original version. Even if it's Japanese VO with subtitles, it is not the original version. It is not how the creator originally wrote it or intended the media to be consumed.

last edited at Sep 5, 2019 1:47PM

Nicknames were not at all acceptable for Yuu and Touko's relationship at that point and simply changed
their characters.

Remember, it's being localised into a culture that is not Japanese. As such, nicknames are perfectly acceptable early in a relationship. Many people start using them pretty much from the get-go. It would be similarly acceptable for Touko to refer to a junior student and friend as "XYZ, dear" as it is for a senpai to refer to a kouhai by their first name. Less hierarchical, probably, but then again: the target culture is less hierarchical to begin with.

Irrelevant. Yuu and Touko are not from some imaginary fantasy world, they are from Japan. We do not change cultural contexts to suit our audience just because it is okay in their cultural sphere. You don't. Change. Character. Dynamics. Or. Personalities.
For Yuu and Touko to use nicknames in their relationship was not appropiate nor something they would do except maybe as a one-off joke. The scene with Sayaka made it even stupider and actively hurt it even more. If they knew that this scene would happen, they would not have made them address each other by first name from the start. It isn't even that much of a cultural dissonance to address someone by last name. It is entirely ridiculous to assume that the majority of anime watchers would not be aware of this cultural nuance.

Your argument sounds like this "Well if we translate their words, might as well translate their cultural background to American!" That is not what a localisation does.

That is a negative alteration. Influencing the audience's perception of what the source material says is a heavy >responsibility that should never be abused, lest we get nonsense like the "I am not into girls or dragons" line by >Kobayashi in the dub of Dragon Maid or the "we are cousins" nonsense in Sailor Moon.

I rarely use absolutes as factual statements, but no matter how close the translation is, you are never reading or watching the source material, unless you've got near-native skills in the source language and culture and are thus actually reading/watching the original version. Even if it's Japanese VO with subtitles, it is not the original version. It is not how the creator originally wrote it or intended the media to be consumed.

That is a bad excuse to give localisors free reign to abuse their power. The idea is to be as close as possible to the original, not to perfectly imitate it. Those lines I mentioned are blatantly wrong and go against what the original tried to convey. Therefore they are unacceptable. We are not talking about sentence structure or idioms here, this is a intentionally altered meaning.

last edited at Sep 5, 2019 1:51PM