ForumNo Dignity for the Captain discussion

Tmp_bh7jrkjcyaakw52-1123006053
joined Apr 15, 2011

In any case, all I see is someone bullying and manipulating another person, and just sees it as funny. Even in her private moments, no real indication that she's attracted to the captain.

don't know Nez. Center panel on the left (http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/no_dignity_for_the_captain_ch02#33). is the "mwaha" and shiver an evil nemesis laugh (no offense evilnemesis) or a ooohhh haha, I have a picture of big boob'd captain for my birthday laugh?

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

In any case, all I see is someone bullying and manipulating another person, and just sees it as funny. Even in her private moments, no real indication that she's attracted to the captain.

don't know Nez. Center panel on the left (http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/no_dignity_for_the_captain_ch02#33). is the "mwaha" and shiver an evil nemesis laugh (no offense evilnemesis) or a ooohhh haha, I have a picture of big boob'd captain for my birthday laugh?

The way it's presented it looks more like "man, she's hilarious when she's suffering" sort of laugh. I'd love to be proven wrong in the next chapter, but like Lemonade I have to wonder if the trip to the alleged sweetness coming up is worth it.

Certainly this doesn't have the heart of The Real Her or Notes From the Garden of Lilies, neither of which gave me this skeevy feeling.

Gorgeous%20ruka
joined Jan 13, 2014

Esumi's a sick sadist...haha!

Aru23
joined Jun 24, 2013

I don't know, but I just can't find funny all this abuse to the captain girl, I mean she is just taking advantage from a weak willed girl all the time and always looking for a way to get her embarrassed and nearly humiliated her, and then say "Oh, this is so funny". Maybe the sadist thing doesn't work for me, at least not like in The real her.

Z%20ss
joined Oct 15, 2013

See a lot of S&M talk. OK, I guess I see the S... But.. Where is the M?

The Real her works cuz there is an M that provokes the S, there is where the fun ensues (+ it has romance elements sprinkled around there, really evident during the last chapters atm). The captain here is obviously not an M... >_>

Kinda feel like ppl don't really know what S&M is... Hell, I don't have a clear idea, but I think I get the gist of it.

Bullying can work with comedy, but to me in ch2 the bullying pretty much towering over the comedy side of it. I guess sweetness can work, the only manga I've read like that is http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bully thats only a one-shot tho, kinda looking forward to what No Dignity for the Captain has to offer.

1354361037765
joined Mar 12, 2014

The captain looks a lot like Akari.. except the bewbs part

Ozy_avatar
joined Jan 30, 2013

Nice to have it back.
For all the things, Captain seems to actually be taking it easy.

113
joined Jun 5, 2014

imma lovin this!. .but i kinda felt annoyed with the repulsive Repetition

Ava
joined Jul 16, 2013

I kinda have to wonder, did you ever saw real bullying? Does she humiliated her in public? Does she bring misery to the captain for her own sadistic enjoyment. Why the hell do you think she brought her to the Amusement Park on her birthday and did not even told her about it? She likes (even loves) the captain but can't express it because she is to tsundere for it.

Jackavi
joined Feb 23, 2014

I kinda have to wonder, did you ever saw real bullying? Does she humiliated her in public? Does she bring misery to the captain for her own sadistic enjoyment. Why the hell do you think she brought her to the Amusement Park on her birthday and did not even told her about it? She likes (even loves) the captain but can't express it because she is to tsundere for it.

I have been bullied most of my life.

I can tell the difference at this point, even if she doesn't think she is bullying her that's what it comes off as especially since the other party is not enjoying this like at all, im also kind of an M and in that sort of relationship both parties need to respect the others boundaries, i would never want to be humiliated in public (though maybe some people would but even then they would probably show some sign of enjoyment out of it)

Ozy_avatar
joined Jan 30, 2013

I dunno, even if she's against it, captain seems...not to overthink stuff, seems like a single crepe would be enough for her forgiveness forever.
Hell, on page 61 we see that mood switch already ^_^
Her behavior is like, "Nononono...oh well, I hated it but overall I still had fun"...
I think she's a Yukkuri.

last edited at Jun 20, 2014 6:53AM

Ava
joined Jul 16, 2013

I have been bullied most of my life.

Sorry to heart that.

I can tell the difference at this point, even if she doesn't think she is bullying her that's what it comes off as especially since the other party is not enjoying this like at all, im also kind of an M and in that sort of relationship both parties need to respect the others boundaries, i would never want to be humiliated in public (though maybe some people would but even then they would probably show some sign of enjoyment out of it)

I still don't think it is bullying. It does not feel and look like it. Also, at an Amusement Park? It screams DATE more then anything else.

Ymir-and-christa-lenz-historia-reiss-shingeki-no-kyojin-kittyluv57-38197762-736-429
joined May 19, 2014

The captain looks a lot like Akari.. except the bewbs part

Good eye. I was just thinking who she resembled.

I didn't really mind Esumi's sadistic behaviour, maybe because I am a sadist myself. But I do find some of her acts a bit over the top, like asking the captain to be in the nude or not wear panties. I would never want to humiliate someone dear to me. Esp, In public. But I do think she does like the captain, as why else would she invite her to an amusement park and on her birthday too? And she joined the tennis club just because of her. I think those are good enough signals to imply that she does like her.

Great
joined Dec 16, 2013

I think where people are getting confused is the distinction between sadism and S&M. While sadism is, by definition, taking pleasure at the suffering of others, that is NOT the entire definition of sadism in an S&M relationship. S&M relationships are about mutual respect, and that is clear if you read a manga like The Real Her, where the budding sadist, Yuuka, realizes that she only gets pleasure from giving Moe pain when Moe /wants/ to feel pain (ie. when Moe wants to be yelled at or stepped on), and NOT when she's forcing that pain on Moe when she doesn't want it (ie. when she crushes her mp3 player). On the other side, while Moe is trying to draw out the sadist in Yuuka, she still says all the time that they need to find compromise so they're /both/ happy. Both parties have to be into it in order for it to be a healthy S&M relationship, and I'm glad The Real Her is drawing attention to that.

This manga, however... hoo boy. I think it's safe to call Esumi a sadist, but in the original sense of the word, not the S&M sense. She's constantly bullying and groping and ogling the captain, forcing her to do things and calling her fat, while the captain protests /constantly/. Literally, almost every sentence out of her mouth is trying to refuse her or say no. It's entirely lacking consent. There may be mutual attraction between them, and I'm sure it will grow over time, but just because two people love each other doesn't mean they are magically incapable of being abusive.

If you must call their relationship S&M, you gotta at least admit that it's not healthy. If you enjoy or are turned on by characters like that, that's perfectly fine, since it's just a goofy manga, but please don't try to justify abusive behaviour as "healthy" or "fine", don't tell other people that they shouldn't feel uncomfortable with it, and for the love of Madoka, don't carry that kind of behaviour into your real relationships, unless you are positive that you AND your partner(s) are into it.

Healthy S&M relationships are based on respect, dignity and choice; and Esumi is not letting the captain have /any/ of those.

last edited at Jun 20, 2014 1:29PM

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

I think where people are getting confused is the distinction between sadism and S&M. While sadism is, by definition, taking pleasure at the suffering of others, that is NOT the entire definition of sadism in an S&M relationship. S&M relationships are about mutual respect, and that is clear if you read a manga like The Real Her, where the budding sadist, Yuuka, realizes that she only gets pleasure from giving Moe pain when Moe /wants/ to feel pain (ie. when Moe wants to be yelled at or stepped on), and NOT when she's forcing that pain on Moe when she doesn't want it (ie. when she crushes her mp3 player). On the other side, while Moe is trying to draw out the sadist in Yuuka, she still says all the time that they need to find compromise so they're /both/ happy. Both parties have to be into it in order for it to be a healthy S&M relationship, and I'm glad The Real Her is drawing attention to that.

This manga, however... hoo boy. I think it's safe to call Esumi a sadist, but in the original sense of the word, not the S&M sense. She's constantly bullying and groping and ogling the captain, forcing her to do things and calling her fat, while the captain protests /constantly/. Literally, almost every sentence out of her mouth is trying to refuse her or say no. It's entirely lacking consent. There may be mutual attraction between them, and I'm sure it will grow over time, but just because two people love each other doesn't mean they are magically incapable of being abusive.

If you must call their relationship S&M, you gotta at least admit that it's not healthy. If you enjoy or are turned on by characters like that, that's perfectly fine, since it's just a goofy manga, but please don't try to justify abusive behaviour as "healthy" or "fine", don't tell other people that they shouldn't feel uncomfortable with it, and for the love of Madoka, don't carry that kind of behaviour into your real relationships, unless you are positive that you AND your partner(s) are into it.

Healthy S&M relationships are based on respect, dignity and choice; and Esumi is not letting the captain have /any/ of those.

Amen!

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Healthy S&M relationships are based on respect, dignity and choice; and Esumi is not letting the captain have /any/ of those.

Amen!

Hear hear! That's a lot of what bugs me about this. I think some of it you can chalk up to the author not understanding S&M in the least, and thinking this is how it's done or something. But it comes off as sheer, self-centred nastiness in practice.

Certainly the only one actually enjoying themselves is Esumi.

Jackavi
joined Feb 23, 2014

Healthy S&M relationships are based on respect, dignity and choice; and Esumi is not letting the captain have /any/ of those.

Amen!

Hear hear! That's a lot of what bugs me about this. I think some of it you can chalk up to the author not understanding S&M in the least, and thinking this is how it's done or something. But it comes off as sheer, self-centred nastiness in practice.

Certainly the only one actually enjoying themselves is Esumi.

Agreed, hot sadist girl acting cool and cold to me but still actually caring about what i want = yes please want

mean b*tch not caring about my feelings at all and just pleasing herself=do not want

joined Jun 20, 2014

Agreeing with CubieJ's point, all I saw in this chapter was plain bullying which wasn't anywhere close to 'fun teasing'. If this is meant to be an S&M couple, then all I see is an S (Esumi) and a poor girl who is forced in a position she in now who isn't enjoying it at all (Emu). However, I do hope this all change in the future chapters fingers cross.

last edited at Jun 20, 2014 4:35PM

Ava
joined Jul 16, 2013

I think people are reading too much into it. This is not a drama. It is comedy and cuteness. When she asks the captain to come to school without panties it is not to humiliate her. It is just something she says out of fun and to embarrass her.

This manga is not about bullying or a sadist. It is over the top for the fun.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Agreeing with CubieJ's point, all I saw in this chapter was plain bullying which wasn't anywhere close to 'fun teasing'. If this is meant to be an S&M couple, then all I see is an S (Esumi) and a poor girl who is forced in a position she in now who isn't enjoying it at all (Emu). However, I do hope this all change in the future chapters fingers cross.

Not to mention, the story is set up so that she's essentially being blackmailed into accepting the abuse since she doesn't want the club she wished so bad for to dissolve. And like a lot of people she's continually trying to find some good in her abuser, and just plain not finding any.

joined Aug 19, 2012

Agreeing with CubieJ's point, all I saw in this chapter was plain bullying which wasn't anywhere close to 'fun teasing'. If this is meant to be an S&M couple, then all I see is an S (Esumi) and a poor girl who is forced in a position she in now who isn't enjoying it at all (Emu). However, I do hope this all change in the future chapters fingers cross.

Not to mention, the story is set up so that she's essentially being blackmailed into accepting the abuse since she doesn't want the club she wished so bad for to dissolve. And like a lot of people she's continually trying to find some good in her abuser, and just plain not finding any.

Dissolved? There is no member, it wasn't a club in the first place.

Even the name of these two are suggestive S&M. There was no malicious intent, and even "captain" herself appears to indulge with it. Not exactly bullying when both sides "consents".

p.s you guys don't know shit about bullying if you think this is one.

last edited at Jun 20, 2014 6:14PM

Jackavi
joined Feb 23, 2014

Agreeing with CubieJ's point, all I saw in this chapter was plain bullying which wasn't anywhere close to 'fun teasing'. If this is meant to be an S&M couple, then all I see is an S (Esumi) and a poor girl who is forced in a position she in now who isn't enjoying it at all (Emu). However, I do hope this all change in the future chapters fingers cross.

Not to mention, the story is set up so that she's essentially being blackmailed into accepting the abuse since she doesn't want the club she wished so bad for to dissolve. And like a lot of people she's continually trying to find some good in her abuser, and just plain not finding any.

Dissolved? There is no member, it wasn't a club in the first place.

Even the name of these two are suggestive S&M. There was no malicious intent, and even "captain" herself appears to indulge with it. Not exactly bullying when both sides "consents".

p.s you guys don't know shit about bullying if you think this is one.

Do i have to repeat the part where i have been bullied pretty much my whole life? making assumptions and saying "you guys don't know shit about bullying" is ignorant and wrong

Omochikaeri_thumb
joined Nov 2, 2013

Christ what has happened to this forum? This is not your personal blog ffs

last edited at Sep 19, 2014 5:36PM

42ed6ac01f64931b5bad2cac0038d2d6
joined Apr 11, 2013

I have been bullied my whole life too but this is a manga. It's not real so why are most of you guys making a big deal out of it? I agree with CubieJ that Esumi does sometimes does cringe worthy things but is this harming anyone in real life? Is someone at a point where they are contemplating suicide? You know the answer. If it's too much for you, just drop it until the cutesy stuff comes in. That's what I did with Citrus (IF it ever gets better).

Geez... Like Kickap00 said, what happened to this forum? It's like when 4chan invaded Tumblr and vice versa...

Jackavi
joined Feb 23, 2014

I have been bullied my whole life too but this is a manga. It's not real so why are most of you guys making a big deal out of it? I agree with CubieJ that Esumi does sometimes does cringe worthy things but is this harming anyone in real life? Is someone at a point where they are contemplating suicide? You know the answer. If it's too much for you, just drop it until the cutesy stuff comes in. That's what I did with Citrus (IF it ever gets better).

Geez... Like Kickap00 said, what happened to this forum? It's like when 4chan invaded Tumblr and vice versa...

Implying citrus will ever get better when these forums lap it up

lol

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