Forum › The Executioner And Her Way of Life discussion

Win%202
joined Nov 12, 2020

Now to hope that the animated adaptation isn't horrendous.

Cow%202
joined Sep 27, 2017

Chapter 13 and main antagonist is already revealed? That went fast.

Main antagonist of this story arc at least. We'll likely get a bigger villain next.

Internet_lied
joined Jul 15, 2016

Welp, the series just went off the deep end. Can anyone in Japan write a plot where a pseudo-Catholic church does not turn out to be led by evil old folks? I dunno, just for the sheer shock factor.

last edited at Jun 8, 2021 10:36AM

Palucina1
joined May 26, 2020

Welp, the series just went off the deep end. Can anyone in Japan write a plot where a pseudo-Catholic church does not turn out to be led by evil old folks? I dunno, just for the sheer shock factor.

Given that the Catholic Church (among others) has been behind some EVIL SH!T for hundreds of years, this is just art imitating life.

Internet_lied
joined Jul 15, 2016

Welp, the series just went off the deep end. Can anyone in Japan write a plot where a pseudo-Catholic church does not turn out to be led by evil old folks? I dunno, just for the sheer shock factor.

Given that the Catholic Church (among others) has been behind some EVIL SH!T for hundreds of years, this is just art imitating life.

Indeed, but art does not have to imitate life that dogmatically. As a counterexample, if most manga closely imitated real attitudes towards homosexuality (in Japan and the world), a good half or more of this site's content wouldn't exist. And yet it seems much easier for Japanese authors to paint non-heteronormative societies than non-evil organized religions.

I am just saying that it could be fun to subvert the rote genre conventions.

last edited at Jun 8, 2021 12:55PM

Cow%202
joined Sep 27, 2017

Welp, the series just went off the deep end. Can anyone in Japan write a plot where a pseudo-Catholic church does not turn out to be led by evil old folks? I dunno, just for the sheer shock factor.

Given that the Catholic Church (among others) has been behind some EVIL SH!T for hundreds of years, this is just art imitating life.

Indeed, but art does not have to imitate life that dogmatically. As a counterexample, if most manga closely imitated real attitudes towards homosexuality (in Japan and the world), a good half or more of this site's content wouldn't exist. And yet it seems much easier for Japanese authors to paint non-heteronormative societies than non-evil organized religions.

I am just saying that it could be fun to subvert the rote genre conventions.

I agree that subverting things is often good and can add some extra spice, but "just went off the deep end"? I don't agree there, because the narrative at the start is that the Church murders innocents and are the villains. It only turned out that the Church were even bigger villains than the main character thought, which at least for me was very obviously the case since the very start. Predictable yes, but so far I'm still enjoying the 4 main characters, and some of the action. I was never reading this for anything revolutionary haha

last edited at Jun 8, 2021 9:54PM

Internet_lied
joined Jul 15, 2016

^ I think I should have put a line break or two in my original post... The church thing is just a pet peeve of mine that I already discussed elsewhere, while the manga went off the deep end the moment it had spent an entire chapter on the villain monologuing at the hero about how society has made them evil.

Because, what was the point of chapter 13, why was it in this story? First, we learn that the Princess is some kind of magical hacker who can trace magical cellphone jamming (which exists, just so) without any foreshadowing that she had ever specced into that build. So this half of the chapter introduces a new problem (jamming) in addition to the one already introduced last chapter (dragon), then immediately pull a solution for it of nowhere without any progress made on the dragon issue, then caps it off with a cool action scene. That's amateur fanfic-level writing, at best, and lazy delaying tactic, at worst.

Second, the Little Sister Archetype (LSA) calls the Heroine and tells her that her Respected Mentor Figure (RMF) who has so far given her zero reasons to doubt her trustworthiness is Actually Evil(tm). She offers zero proof or evidence, but that's OK, because the RMF takes one single look at the Heroine's face, immediately figures out what the LSA told her, and instead of making any attempt to salvage the situation or at least to stall her until the Earth Girl (EG) gets blanched, immediately goes "Muahahahaha, I am Actually Evil(tm)!". She then attacks the Heroine without provocation, reveals an incriminating location she was not supposed to know existed, confesses to every accusation, and then starts whining about how hard it is to have responsibilities in addition to all the perks and privileges of high status in the society. She then also tells the Heroine of her Special Destiny(tm) and, oh, just by the way, I killed your entire village, too, no hard feelings.

Now, just what is the Evil Old Lady's goal and motivation here? If she just wants the "blanching" ritual to succeed, why did she blow up a hole in the floor in the immediate vicinity. instead of using her official and personal pull with the Heroine to stall her? If she wants to gain the Heroine's sympathy with her sob story, then why confess to indirectly killing her parents and mock her for "not having a self" immediately thereafter? If she wants the Heroine to keep working for her out of her free will, why provoke and antagonize her? If she wants to brainwash her, why give the long-winded speech instead of just sucker-punching her while she's still confused? None of this makes the Evil Old Lady look like a competent and intelligent mastermind she supposedly is -- more like a entitled teenager throwing a tantrum.

A story is only as intelligent as its dumbest main villain, and this story's IQ has just dropped faster than Bitcoin after an Elon Musk tweet.

last edited at Jun 9, 2021 2:26AM

Cow%202
joined Sep 27, 2017

^ I think I should have put a line break or two in my original post... The church thing is just a pet peeve of mine that I already discussed elsewhere, while the manga went off the deep end the moment it had spent an entire chapter on the villain monologuing at the hero about how society has made them evil.

Because, what was the point of chapter 13, why was it in this story? First, we learn that the Princess is some kind of magical hacker who can trace magical cellphone jamming (which exists, just so) without any foreshadowing that she had ever specced into that build. So this half of the chapter introduces a new problem (jamming) in addition to the one already introduced last chapter (dragon), then immediately pull a solution for it of nowhere without any progress made on the dragon issue, then caps it off with a cool action scene. That's amateur fanfic-level writing, at best, and lazy delaying tactic, at worst.

Second, the Little Sister Archetype (LSA) calls the Heroine and tells her that her Respected Mentor Figure (RMF) who has so far given her zero reasons to doubt her trustworthiness is Actually Evil(tm). She offers zero proof or evidence, but that's OK, because the RMF takes one single look at the Heroine's face, immediately figures out what the LSA told her, and instead of making any attempt to salvage the situation or at least to stall her until the Earth Girl (EG) gets blanched, immediately goes "Muahahahaha, I am Actually Evil(tm)!". She then attacks the Heroine without provocation, reveals an incriminating location she was not supposed to know existed, confesses to every accusation, and then starts whining about how hard it is to have responsibilities in addition to all the perks and privileges of high status in the society. She then also tells the Heroine of her Special Destiny(tm) and, oh, just by the way, I killed your entire village, too, no hard feelings.

Now, just what is the Evil Old Lady's goal and motivation here? If she just wants the "blanching" ritual to succeed, why did she blow up a hole in the floor in the immediate vicinity. instead of using her official and personal pull with the Heroine to stall her? If she wants to gain the Heroine's sympathy with her sob story, then why confess to indirectly killing her parents and mock her for "not having a self" immediately thereafter? If she wants the Heroine to keep working for her out of her free will, why provoke and antagonize her? If she wants to brainwash her, why give the long-winded speech instead of just sucker-punching her while she's still confused? None of this makes the Evil Old Lady look like a competent and intelligent mastermind she supposedly is -- more like a entitled teenager throwing a tantrum.

A story is only as intelligent as its dumbest main villain, and this story's IQ has just dropped faster than Bitcoin after an Elon Musk tweet.

Well it's unfortunate that you dislike the series so much. Personally I'm still having fun with it. Your critiques are valid, but I was never taking this manga super seriously to begin with, so there was never a "off the deep end" point for me. I think it's just a fun little isekai adventure. That's all I can really say.

last edited at Jun 9, 2021 4:02AM

Imgonline-com-ua-compressed-x85kp90svyulj
joined Jul 21, 2017

That was hilarious motivation.

Tumblr_nsb2wsngkl1t0bs5do3_250
joined Jul 2, 2013

A story is only as intelligent as its dumbest main villain, and this story's IQ has just dropped faster than Bitcoin after an Elon Musk tweet.

It's easily apparent that the villain thinks Menou doesn't have any chance of beating her. In fact, she tells you that outright. Overconfidence precedes failure. You seem to have a lot of bones to pick with this manga, valid or not. At a certain point, it just becomes nitpicking.

Internet_lied
joined Jul 15, 2016

A story is only as intelligent as its dumbest main villain, and this story's IQ has just dropped faster than Bitcoin after an Elon Musk tweet.

It's easily apparent that the villain thinks Menou doesn't have any chance of beating her. In fact, she tells you that outright. Overconfidence precedes failure. You seem to have a lot of bones to pick with this manga, valid or not. At a certain point, it just becomes nitpicking.

At certain point, it will, but I don't think it has yet. :-) And you seem to have misinterpreted my criticism: I do not complain about the villain being overconfident, I complain about her behavior towards a potential threat (Menou) and her apparent contradictory tactical goals (one the one hand, to earn Menou's sympathy; on the other, to rile up her anger) not aligning with her stated long-term goal and motivation (to extract even more benefits from her already privileged position while shirking her responsibilities instead of abdicating/retiring due to advanced age). "If hero meets villain, they must always fight" is the kind of formulaic, by-the-numbers writing that simply does not engage me intellectually -- which is what I typically look for in a fantasy story.

last edited at Jun 12, 2021 3:40AM

Tumblr_nsb2wsngkl1t0bs5do3_250
joined Jul 2, 2013

And you seem to have misinterpreted my criticism

I didn't. Overconfidence was a short and apparent reason as to why the villain may have acted as she did. Akari was already on the altar surrounded by her underlings in a setting of her choosing. Menou's assistance was underground fighting a dragon. She doesn't think Menou has a rat's ass chance against her (see: overconfidence) so why bother pretending anymore.

At certain point, it will, but I don't think it has yet. :-)

Let me show you.

Because, what was the point of chapter 13, why was it in this story? First, we learn that the Princess is some kind of magical hacker who can trace magical cellphone jamming (which exists, just so) without any foreshadowing that she had ever specced into that build.

This is the second time we really met with the princess and the first time was a purely physical fight. What reason is there for any need of foreshadowing?

So this half of the chapter introduces a new problem (jamming) in addition to the one already introduced last chapter (dragon), then immediately pull a solution for it of nowhere without any progress made on the dragon issue, then caps it off with a cool action scene. That's amateur fanfic-level writing, at best, and lazy delaying tactic, at worst.

If the jamming wasn't there, you would be sitting here claiming it as another 'low IQ' oversight from the villain. The dragon haven't been dealt with because events from both places are happening at the same time and will likely conclude at the same time too or possibly even converge at some point. What's to complain about a cool action scene in an action fantasy manga?

See how I nitpick your nitpick? If you still don't see it as so, oh well.

Internet_lied
joined Jul 15, 2016

And you seem to have misinterpreted my criticism

I didn't. Overconfidence was a short and apparent reason as to why the villain may have acted as she did. Akari was already on the altar surrounded by her underlings in a setting of her choosing. Menou's assistance was underground fighting a dragon. She doesn't think Menou has a rat's ass chance against her (see: overconfidence) so why bother pretending anymore.

Oh, I see your point now. But still, overconfidence and reasoning like "why shouldn't I do this stupid thing?" are not attributes of a competent mastermind (see also: Evil Overlord's List), so my point still stands :-)

Because, what was the point of chapter 13, why was it in this story? First, we learn that the Princess is some kind of magical hacker who can trace magical cellphone jamming (which exists, just so) without any foreshadowing that she had ever specced into that build.

This is the second time we really met with the princess and the first time was a purely physical fight. What reason is there for any need of foreshadowing?

The reason is Sanderson's first law of promises and payoffs: An author's ability to solve problems with magic in a satisfying way depends on how well the reader understands said magic. Introducing a complication just so that a side character can reveal a cool new ability to solve it three pages later violates that law, as it creates an expectation that any character can gain whatever power the plot requires at any time.

So this half of the chapter introduces a new problem (jamming) in addition to the one already introduced last chapter (dragon), then immediately pull a solution for it of nowhere without any progress made on the dragon issue, then caps it off with a cool action scene. That's amateur fanfic-level writing, at best, and lazy delaying tactic, at worst.

If the jamming wasn't there, you would be sitting here claiming it as another 'low IQ' oversight from the villain.

Please don't try to read my mind and/or put words into my mouth. :-) Jamming devices have not been featured in the series up until this chapter (do correct me if I am wrong), so even I wouldn't expect the villain to have something in their lair whose existence has never been indicated in the story.

The dragon haven't been dealt with because events from both places are happening at the same time and will likely conclude at the same time too or possibly even converge at some point. What's to complain about a cool action scene in an action fantasy manga?

Again, you are putting words into my mouth: the action scenes in this manga are definitely cool-looking, I do not deny that. It just that the first cool-looking fight in this chapter was watered down because the author felt the need to introduce a new fact about the universe and about the Princess in the laziest way possible, while the second cool-looking fight is now happening because a supposedly smart villain has proven herself not very smart. And in a manga that starts off with the murder of a kidnapped child, I kind of expect cool action scenes to happen for reasonably intelligent reasons.

See how I nitpick your nitpick? If you still don't see it as so, oh well.

All I see is you countering my criticism with valid, if often weak arguments and examples.

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