Bless whoever made this tag.

oh wow, i love this tag already

Me (yesterday): The perfect tag doesn't exi-
Several Dynasty Readers, including me (today): wholesome

I like how (as of now) all of the things tagged with this are either from Inui Ayu or Kishi Torajirou. With the exception of that weird succubus rape one-shot.

But wait, all yuri is supposed to be wholesome!(kinda).

I'm glad to see that Futaribeya and both versions of Tadokoro-san were put under this tag.

Bless this tag, so glad that Dynasty-scans added it in!
A while ago I wanted to add a "happy ending" tag but realized it would be obvious spoilers.
This is such a better solution! If you want to read something that'll put a big, stupid, happy grin on your face after reading, then this is the tag for you!

I'm glad to see that Futaribeya and both versions of Tadokoro-san were put under this tag.

The first makes sense, the second doesn't. And it was even (temporarily) put on a messed up h-doujin about rape. Clearly wholesome is not a term you can logically quantify. Ultra subjective. Doctor Hoot is right, it sure is a joke tag.

last edited at May 15, 2020 6:58AM

I consider this tag to be dynasty-scans’s seal of approval!

Some jokes are funnier when they’re true... keep this tag, please.

I'm glad to see that Futaribeya and both versions of Tadokoro-san were put under this tag.

The first makes sense, the second doesn't. And it was even (temporarily) put on a messed h-doujin about rape. Clearly wholesome is not a term you can logically quantify. Ultra subjective. Doctor Hoot is right, it sure is a joke tag.

You don't have to define something quantitatively for it to have an agreed upon meaning. The tag is only a day old, and only two one-shots and three series have it. Let's give it a bit of time to settle and we can come up with a reasonable understanding.

You don't have to define something quantitatively for it to have an agreed upon meaning. The tag is only a day old, and only two one-shots and three series have it. Let's give it a bit of time to settle and we can come up with a reasonable understanding.

Of course tags like that already exist. Hence why people keep arguing what tags even apply to some stories out of a very distinct interpretation of what it actually means.
And in this tag's case for example I do not agree that a happy ending equals a wholesome story. If you went through 10 chapters of pure undiluted dirty drama that ends in a happy and fluffy situation I'd not say the story was wholesome. Similarily extreme perversion or sexual focus are not wholesome just because both characters are into it.

To me Wholesome is a tag interchangable with Vanilla or Fluff. And I am sure there are plenty of people completely opposite on the opinion spectrum of that. I believe this tag is almost too subjective to be properly applied is all, unless used very sparingly on very obvious cases.

last edited at May 15, 2020 7:07AM

Blursed tag wen

Me (yesterday): The perfect tag doesn't exi-

Objection: Marisa x Reimu

You don't have to define something quantitatively for it to have an agreed upon meaning. The tag is only a day old, and only two one-shots and three series have it. Let's give it a bit of time to settle and we can come up with a reasonable understanding.

Of course tags like that already exist. Hence why people keep arguing what tags even apply to some stories out of a very distinct interpretation of what it actually means.
And in this tag's case for example I do not agree that a happy ending equals a wholesome story. If you went through 10 chapters of pure undiluted dirty drama that ends in a happy and fluffy situation I'd not say the story was wholesome. Similarily extreme perversion or sexual focus are not wholesome just because both characters are into it.

To me Wholesome is a tag interchangable with Vanilla or Fluff. And I am sure there are plenty of people completely opposite on the opinion spectrum of that. I believe this tag is almost too subjective to be properly applied is all, unless used very sparingly on very obvious cases.

I don't know where you're seeing people that have a completely opposite meaning of "wholesome". It's a word with a pretty clearcut meaning, and I can only imagine the temporary application to a **** doujin was an obvious mistake, not a clash of subjective views that conveniently validates your opposition to the tag perfectly. Likewise, the person you're referring to wasn't saying that a happy ending alone is all that's needed for wholesome tag, just that the tag would fill a similar purpose in helping find manga that leave you smiling.

Innocent, pure, a focus on happy, positive emotions to the exclusion of things that invoke strong negative emotions - I think this capture what a wholesome manga is, which lines up with your view of it as synonymous with fluff, I believe. If people substantively disagree, I'd be interested to hear it, but I feel like this understanding of the word is just about universal. On that note, you say that it doesn't make sense to apply it to Tadokoro-san, which is about as fluffy as it gets. Why do you think so?

last edited at May 15, 2020 9:52AM by

I don't know where you're seeing people that have a completely opposite meaning of "wholesome". It's a word with a pretty clearcut meaning, and I can only imagine the temporary application to a **** doujin was an obvious mistake, not a clash of subjective views that conveniently validates your opposition to the tag perfectly. Likewise, the person you're referring to wasn't saying that a happy ending alone is all that's needed for wholesome tag, just that the tag would fill a similar purpose in helping find manga that leave you smiling.

Innocent, pure, a focus on happy, positive emotions to the exclusion of things that invoke strong negative emotions - I think this capture what a wholesome manga is, which lines up with your view of it as synonymous with fluff, I believe. If people substantively disagree, I'd be interested to hear it, but I feel like this understanding of the word is just about universal. On that note, you say that it doesn't make sense to apply it to Tadokoro-san, which is about as fluffy as it gets. Why do you think so?

Funny you would be so aggressive just because you agree with my interpretation of the tag and can't imagine any other interpretation. lol

I already gave pretty succinct examples I believe. Many people indeed have the opinion that if a story ends well, all bad things in it are wiped away. I have been told several times about "nice and wholesome" stories which were drama fests that just had a nice conclusion.

I also believe extreme perversion and sexual content, even if no negative feelings are involved cannot be considered wholesome. For example there is nothing wholesome about BDSM to me, even if both parties are completely comfortable with the arrangement. And no... aftercare is not wholesome. it's just the bare minimum recompensation after something close to voluntary abuse.

Now that I drew the ire of everyone who loves these things let me repeat that I am entirely speaking in context of the tag, I am not against any of these things in general. I read more drama than fluff most of the time even.

As for Tadokoro-san I won't even bother. This is neither the right thread nor really relevant. Suffice it to say our opinions already diverge there, proving my point.

last edited at May 15, 2020 10:01AM

I also believe extreme perversion and sexual content, even if no negative feelings are involved cannot be considered wholesome.

I agree, and I think most people would. That's the "innocent, pure" part of my definition. I can certainly imagine people debating the exact line (maybe some people think anything sexual at all can't be wholesome, while I personally hold the opinion that some stuff with a focus on the feelings of love and not the naughty bits is still wholesome), but I doubt there are that many people who are calling extreme fetish material wholesome.

Funny you would be so aggressive just because you agree with my interpretation of the tag and can't imagine any other interpretation. lol

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive. But I do believe most people have the same understanding of the word, and I don't like the idea of killing the tag just because people will argue about it. I think that, even if a few manga are miscategorised, it's better to have a tag that lets people find the stuff they're looking for than to shut out that possibility altogether. Particularly in this case, since there's a pretty big market for people looking for wholesome manga.

The application was correct. This removal is injustice.

I also believe extreme perversion and sexual content, even if no negative feelings are involved cannot be considered wholesome.

I agree, and I think most people would. That's the "innocent, pure" part of my definition. I can certainly imagine people debating the exact line (maybe some people think anything sexual at all can't be wholesome, while I personally hold the opinion that some stuff with a focus on the feelings of love and not the naughty bits is still wholesome), but I doubt there are that many people who are calling extreme fetish material wholesome.

I have never had an argument with someone who so completely agrees with me... what a weird day.
As the term of wholesomeness has been watered down in the recent years I feel pretty confident that there are people who would consider anything consensual and happy Wholesome .

Funny you would be so aggressive just because you agree with my interpretation of the tag and can't imagine any other interpretation. lol

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive. But I do believe most people have the same understanding of the word, and I don't like the idea of killing the tag just because people will argue about it. I think that, even if a few manga are miscategorised, it's better to have a tag that lets people find the stuff they're looking for than to shut out that possibility altogether. Particularly in this case, since there's a pretty big market for people looking for wholesome manga.

I didn't say to get rid of the tag. Rather I consider it a joke tag, of which this site has many anyway.
The other course of action would be to more tightly define the term, but ultimately it matters little...

Mm, I do agree that if it's going to be a problem, the application of the tag should be tighter rather than looser. It defeats the point really badly if you click on something tagged wholesome and read something that makes you unhappy rather than happy. I just didn't anticipate it really being that much of an issue, but maybe I haven't met the right forumposters defining it so loosely.

Imagine starting an argumentation on Wholesome tag.

Imagine starting an argumentation on Wholesome tag.

0210564801 is wholesome, debate me cowards.

Anjelika posted:

I don't know where you're seeing people that have a completely opposite meaning of "wholesome". It's a word with a pretty clearcut meaning

Well, my first exposure to this word (term?) was from this discussion and it was used by purist to talk about "true" yuri manga that had no controversial elements and were a proper, good portray of lesbians in media, so my initial impression of it was very negative. I never saw people using it that way again and after that the meaning of "that work gives me warm fuzzies and make me go awww" was the only one I saw, so maybe it's just my bad luck that the first time I saw it being used was by purist minority.

last edited at May 15, 2020 12:04PM

This is my new favorite tag

This is my new favorite tag

no sorry there is a limit on how many people can make this one a favorite. you're gonna have to go with feet as your favorite.

BugDevil posted:

For example there is nothing wholesome about BDSM to me, even if both parties are completely comfortable with the arrangement. And no... aftercare is not wholesome. it's just the bare minimum recompensation after something close to voluntary abuse.

Wow, and you just proved you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It was a while since I read something so ignorant and grossly misunderstanding something, I'll just pretend I didn't see it.

Anjelika posted:

I also believe extreme perversion and sexual content, even if no negative feelings are involved cannot be considered wholesome.

I agree, and I think most people would. That's the "innocent, pure" part of my definition. I can certainly imagine people debating the exact line (maybe some people think anything sexual at all can't be wholesome, while I personally hold the opinion that some stuff with a focus on the feelings of love and not the naughty bits is still wholesome), but I doubt there are that many people who are calling extreme fetish material wholesome.

Well first of all BDSM is a spectrum so just labeling entire thing as "extreme" is a little. Not to mention everyone has different line when something becomes "extreme". Secondly, it implies that BDSM doesn't involve expression of love. Sure I can understand why some people could not understand it (it's not for everyone for a reason), but to blindly saying there can't be BDSM play that focuses more on feelings is just plain ignorant. Something many people don't know or forget about is that entire premise of BDSM is based on unquestionable trust for your partner, that they won't take advantage of you when you allow them taking control over you. The act itself might seem to other people as very vulgar, but the feelings behind it are very pure and deep. So to simply dismiss it as something that can never be wholesome in nature is incredibly ignorant. And I think that can apply to any fetish. Ultimately it's all about strong bond those people are sharing that they're willing to act on their biggest fantasies without feeling ashamed or embarrassed about them.

last edited at May 15, 2020 12:45PM