Forum › It's a Detached Relationship. discussion

Avatar_eb43cd282953_128
joined Oct 13, 2014

so theyre both fucked up? im in

joined Apr 17, 2017

This is a bland psychosexual thriller trying to pass itself off as romance.

Not meaning to be snippy or combative, but when I read the story it seemed like the reverse: a romance about growing communication between two people, passing itself off as a psychosexual thriller. Maybe even a bland one. But I really like both the bland thriller and the romance elements so far.

I thought the caring feelings evolving between the two main characters were a pretty clear subtext. These two are both severely isolated people, who need to be broken out of their shells. The teacher needs a future to live for and Aya needs to learn the kind of looseness, the generosity of spirit that is needed in order to function well as an adult. The teacher might be a little pervy but she's incredibly lonely too, boxed in and reaching out on the internet for a companion. And Aya is the one who keeps stepping further into the relationship, coming back for more of what she claims is abuse. What makes for a romantic obstacle are Aya's own hangups, her insecurity about herself. And maybe Kuro–sensei's own possibly deep–seated feelings of rejection.

I guess both characters have a strongly negative self–image. Perhaps that's why both characters have a romantic double, a character who would readily be their romantic interest if either heroine had eyes to see them there: Haruki the neighbor is that character for Aya and Mochida the student is that rival for Kuro-sensei. But by the logic of the story, Haruki isn't right for Aya and Mochida isn't right for Kuro–sensei, because each of them goes at their respected romantic interest head–on, trying to confront their insecurities in a kind of one-on-one showdown (the ugliness of these confrontations is I think part of what people are responding to when they say they have no use for Haruki––her possessiveness towards Aya is clearly colored by jealousy). Haruki wants Aya to get over her hangups, but Kuro–sensei is "right" for Aya, in the logic of the manga, because she can actually "show" Aya a way to get over those hangups––to get more explicit, she could "reward" Aya for getting over her hangups, with love, and maybe with an introduction to the more adult world that Aya seems to long for and yet also chafe at.

Similar to Haruki, Mochida wants to get to Kuro–sensei essentially by negging her into submission, not realizing that Kuro–sensei doesn't need to be hurt any more, but rather she needs to be built up with the more consistent caring Aya can perhaps offer if she feels she is being treated like an adult (I'm assuming that Kuro–sensei's confession of her foiled first–love is true, personally being ignorant of what might happen in later chapters). I suppose I'm downplaying the teacher/student power imbalance of the relationship, but I think the author has been very conscientious about that problem. Aya has had tons of chances to step away from this relationship. If she chose to freeze-out Kuro–sensei, the teacher could hardly find her and stalk her. The second chapter especially devotes a lot of time to Aya torn between dropping Kuro–sensei's contact info and not, clearly knowing that if the relationship deepens Kuro–sensei is going to want sex from her. I don't think it could be any clearer that it's Aya's decision to move things forward. Of course, the author might push further to justify this premise by getting into Kuro–sensei's presumably sad life, showing her wanting to have a relationship and get over her previous sense of rejection, but revealing how hemmed–in she is socially; how hard it is for her as a teacher to pursue any kind of romantic interest, aside from a male fellow teacher or some kind of matchmaking service. There is that implication I think, lightly colored in by the bars the author draws on the windows of Kuro–sensei's apartment (maybe I'm wrong? they look like bars to me), suggesting the imprisonment of a cell. And yet this is Kuro–sensei's life, with no friends or lovers we can see, and no opportunities for any such offers that seem really genuine. I think one of the bolder suggestions of the story is that at that edge, in that isolation (I'm referring to Kuro–sensei's isolation and Aya's as well), the lines between what's an appropriate relationship and what's not might begin to blur.

So far the story works really well for me. I find it a lot more psychologically complex than Naoko Kodama's work usually gets, even though it is in the same space, genre-wise. Maybe it's because Flowerchild's art is so much more expressive, but I think also there is a playful sense of kink to the story that Kodama's manga is often starved of, at least by the end. "Hungry for You: Endo Yasuko Stalks the Night" was fun, but the pacing was all over the place and the action seemed more important than the romantic elements. Here it feels like Flowerchild has developed much better pacing, and has taken her very kinky sense of interpersonal dynamics between characters and enriched it with a more realistic situation––to much more satisfying results. Flowerchild even uses her settings to amplify themes and to further that sense of wry humor in the dramatic setup, as when Kuro–sensei and Aya have a very adult talk about boundaries in a children's playground. Not many authors in the Yuri manga space are able to pull off a visual effect like that, where the backgrounds on the page undercut the drama with a thematic irony. I also love the title spread, where the teacher and the schoolgirl each teasingly reveal their ID cards to the reader, as if the author is telling us exactly which tone she'll reserve for dealing with the central dramatic concerns of this story. It seems to me a manga that is poised to challenge some people's assumptions about the binary boundaries we make for ourselves––between adult and child, legal and illegal, wrong and right. To me it feels very inspired. It seemed to me like "Hungry for You" got wrapped up in a terrible hurry, like it was cancelled? I hope this story goes can play out in full.

Tsuki-chan Uploader
Yuriiia
Chads no Teikoku
joined Dec 18, 2013

I don't know what I want from this series. I know that I like it, I know that is totally toxic but I loved the raw sexual thrist that sensei showed right at the start.

I find it a lot more psychologically complex than Naoko Kodama's work usually gets.

There is no possible comparison with Kodama Naoko

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

Trash is always fun.

Couldn't care less for the childhood friend because I always find characters who interfere because "they're worried" but never acknowledge that they're just jealous and don't confess to MC themselves super annoying. From what we've seen so far, I wouldn't mind seeing more of Mochida though and would get behind it if she also has a crush on the teacher.

But yeah looking forward to this train crash hahahah

Ayuyu
joined Dec 20, 2016

Well, this is weird. I usually love this kind of story, about trash people and their unhealthy relationship. I'm a big fan of Kodama Naoko. Add age-gap into the fray, I should like this manga

Yet... I felt nothing.

Untitled
joined May 2, 2018

Two chapters in, I'm surprised by its unschlockiness. Damn creepy but soberly executed.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

It's only because the chapters has been uploaded all at once today that people aren't reacting (but most likely the request to upload them was made some time ago).

I'm one who knows the story past this point but of course I'm not gonna spoil it, but my general impression was WOW hahaha when I saw the teacher changing from Ufufufu to "ugghh >_>" that was fresh, I like to see where this goes and I like the characters.... except the childhood friend, she can fuck off for all I care.

And you know I think we need more stories like this, something about passion and eroticism without going full hentai and with a compelling story, by the way this author made hentai but I don't see stupid fanservice here like "kyaaa d-don't look at my panties x0" with forced low angles all the time. I say that we need more stories like this because it feels like we're mostly jumping from fluffy to crazy yandere/ntr hell and if not then is something super serious or dramatic where you don't even know if we'll get yuri or not at the end.... So yeah, what I'm saying here is that I like this take on yuri, because the characters don't always have good intentions and they aren't just bad just because.

So you're going to fight the good fight, huh, Serenata-sama?

My respect goes to you. As for me, as I said when we were talking about this series in the 'Manga En Español' thread, I don't want any part in the debate of the English-speakers. This sort of story isn't for them. Reactions are going to be sanguinary. It's gonna be even worse than with Kimi Wa Shoujo.

Good luck to you. Me, since I don't want to read insults against this lovely and amazing manga, I'm outta here. Ta-ta.

well that's a bit insulting. i'm an english speaker and i fully enjoyed this for what it was. not everyone is an evangelist ffs. i completely agree we need more yuri like this >:D

Don't worry, it seem our spanish readers feel like we're idiots who can appreciate the same thing than them.I don't even fucking know why being english in this situation make any difference. That's kinda racist.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

This is a bland psychosexual thriller trying to pass itself off as romance.

[snip] But by the logic of the story, Haruki isn't right for Aya and Mochida isn't right for Kuro–sensei, because each of them goes at their respected romantic interest head–on, trying to confront their insecurities in a kind of one-on-one showdown (the ugliness of these confrontations is I think part of what people are responding to when they say they have no use for Haruki––her possessiveness towards Aya is clearly colored by jealousy). Haruki wants Aya to get over her hangups, but Kuro–sensei is "right" for Aya, in the logic of the manga, because she can actually "show" Aya a way to get over those hangups––to get more explicit, she could "reward" Aya for getting over her hangups, with love, and maybe with an introduction to the more adult world that Aya seems to long for and yet also chafe at.

So far the story works really well for me. I find it a lot more psychologically complex than Naoko Kodama's work usually gets, even though it is in the same space, genre-wise. Maybe it's because Flowerchild's art is so much more expressive, but I think also there is a playful sense of kink to the story that Kodama's manga is often starved of, at least by the end.

Great post, which I've only snipped for space. I particularly like the phrase "by the logic of the story", a crucial concept in literary interpretation, one which, in many "problematic" series, readers often bulldoze over in order to simply assimilate the action to (their own) real-life moral/cultural values.

Stories set up their own value systems (which can certainly be repulsive ones at times), and careful reading first determines what that is before (potentially) rejecting it. (Rejecting a story because it embodies or espouses repellent values is perfectly fine, indeed unavoidable, but sometimes it seems that readers are simply noting the presence of some undesirable theme or behavior while paying little attention to what the author is actually doing with the material.)

I don't particularly "like" any of these characters, nor do I have an emotional investment in what happens to them as imaginary people, but so far I like the story quite well, not because I have a taste for "trash" or am tired of fluffy yuri, but because the author has set up an interesting narrative situation and seems to be taking the issues it raises seriously.

EDIT: Also, what uncertain said.^^

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 9:46AM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

tl;dr : everyone have their own tastes.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

tl;dr : everyone have their own tastes.

The fact that you thought my post was about "taste" is exactly the failure of reading comprehension the post was about.

Alpha%20avatar
joined Nov 13, 2015

Childhood friend is clearly best girl and she's going to get hurt, and it pains me.

Nyohohoho
joined Apr 20, 2013

feihong posted:

This is a bland psychosexual thriller trying to pass itself off as romance.

Not meaning to be snippy or combative, but when I read the story it seemed like the reverse: a romance about growing communication between two people, passing itself off as a psychosexual thriller. Maybe even a bland one. But I really like both the bland thriller and the romance elements so far.

I thought the caring feelings evolving between the two main characters were a pretty clear subtext. These two are both severely isolated people, who need to be broken out of their shells. The teacher needs a future to live for and Aya needs to learn the kind of looseness, the generosity of spirit that is needed in order to function well as an adult. The teacher might be a little pervy but she's incredibly lonely too, boxed in and reaching out on the internet for a companion. And Aya is the one who keeps stepping further into the relationship, coming back for more of what she claims is abuse. What makes for a romantic obstacle are Aya's own hangups, her insecurity about herself. And maybe Kuro–sensei's own possibly deep–seated feelings of rejection.

Yeah so far, Aya's life has been lonely and uneventful so when the teacher showed up, I think she gave her the excitement she needed but can't come to terms with it yet because the teacher isn't exactly a charming prince(ss) in a white horse. The teacher approach was without a doubt rash, and that's what most people seem to dislike. Aya is still interested but now she has an extra layer of defense. Meanwhile the teacher seems to have given up partially in real love and she barely cares anymore... I want them to find a balance, right now we have 2 extremes.

Similar to Haruki, Mochida wants to get to Kuro–sensei essentially by negging her into submission, not realizing that Kuro–sensei doesn't need to be hurt any more, but rather she needs to be built up with the more consistent caring Aya can perhaps offer if she feels she is being treated like an adult (I'm assuming that Kuro–sensei's confession of her foiled first–love is true, personally being ignorant of what might happen in later chapters). I suppose I'm downplaying the teacher/student power imbalance of the relationship, but I think the author has been very conscientious about that problem. Aya has had tons of chances to step away from this relationship. If she chose to freeze-out Kuro–sensei, the teacher could hardly find her and stalk her. The second chapter especially devotes a lot of time to Aya torn between dropping Kuro–sensei's contact info and not, clearly knowing that if the relationship deepens Kuro–sensei is going to want sex from her. I don't think it could be any clearer that it's Aya's decision to move things forward

That's something I really like, is almost Tsundere how Aya is going about it, but not quite because is a really serious matter... To be really honest I don't know where this story is going but I'm afraid someone else might find out what the teacher is really like a cause an scandal and they'll never see each other again... If something like that happens I bet the childhood friend will be like "See, I told you >:(... Now go back to your corner and read a book or something" hahahaha well not really. But it would be the most boring and empty ending possible.

BY THE WAY there's a manga with a similar vibe to this (it's only 5 chapters) called Takane no Hana wa usotsuki desu , it's also age gap and and what's more, the woman has the same haircut as the teacher (lots of coincidences!) it's been translated to spanish but if you happen to find it, check it out!... Unless you don't like Warikitta, in that case just don't waste your time.


Is almost like they're related or alternate universes

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 10:32AM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

tl;dr : everyone have their own tastes.

The fact that you thought my post was about "taste" is exactly the failure of reading comprehension the post was about.

But in the end, it's what it's all about.If i don't like the story or the characters then there is no point to still reading something i don't enjoy. You can the story is interesting yes but simply because it's interesting doesn't mean i like it.

If something like that happens I bet the childhood friend will be like "See, I told you >:(

Oh don't worry, i'm pretty sure that by the end she will depressed and alone, given the overall atmospher. I'm pretty sure she will never had a chance and even if she confess she will get a big nope.

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 10:40AM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

tl;dr : everyone have their own tastes.

The fact that you thought my post was about "taste" is exactly the failure of reading comprehension the post was about.

But in the end, it's what it's all about.

LOL. Goodbye.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

tl;dr : everyone have their own tastes.

The fact that you thought my post was about "taste" is exactly the failure of reading comprehension the post was about.

But in the end, it's what it's all about.

LOL. Goodbye.

Dunno, you can have just explain why i'm wrong instead of saying "you're wrong". I'm not as dumb as most peoples think i am here.

Images
joined Aug 19, 2018

This is good, and creepy. And a bit sexy.

This. Also, this is the first time I've seen any chapter about this story, even though they poested awhile ago, including a few daya ago.

Childhood friend is clearly best girl and she's going to get hurt, and it pains me.

I don't know if she's best girl yet, but she hasn't been too bad of a character for me to hate like some do, so I hope she gets a happy yuri ending (As long as she doesn't do anything too fucked up)

last edited at Dec 30, 2019 11:50AM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

This is good, and creepy. And a bit sexy.

This. Also, this is the first time I've seen any chapter about this story, even though they poested awhile ago, including a few daya ago.

That's because the uploaded chapter have the day they were originally been uploaded elsewhere but they were uploaded all 4 at the time here.

Images
joined Aug 19, 2018

This is good, and creepy. And a bit sexy.

This. Also, this is the first time I've seen any chapter about this story, even though they poested awhile ago, including a few daya ago.

That's because the uploaded chapter have the day they were originally been uploaded elsewhere but they were uploaded all 4 at the time here.

Oh ok. Thank you. I was so confuzzled

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I'm not as dumb as most peoples think i am here.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

The fact that you glaringly missed the point in three of my posts in a row suggests that, to my regret, I am incapable of making arguments you are capable of understanding. As a result, I see no use in continuing these exchanges until my communications skills improve. Or something else happens.

Avatar-bro2
joined Apr 20, 2013

this.... is wrong and sexy af. Damn.

IKR? I loved the way author did all those making out scenes, they were really well-drawn.

Though the story is a bit creepy and make me nervous, I want to see the end of this. Subscribed! <3

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

The fact that you glaringly missed the point in three of my posts in a row

It's just that my interpreation of your comments is not what you mean to said. I never mean to purposelly misinterpret.

B61e85481cd305c6139d74d53e7100cf--pixel-ideas
joined Sep 20, 2017

The art is freaking amazing. I love how expressive the characters are

joined Oct 10, 2016

Yeah, I sense love triangle or even harem. Because like someone said above, Sensei is a predator and Aya has a large possibility to develop something similar to stockholm syndrome.

This shit's unhealthy as fuck.

joined Apr 5, 2018

Well, this is weird. I usually love this kind of story, about trash people and their unhealthy relationship. I'm a big fan of Kodama Naoko. Add age-gap into the fray, I should like this manga

Yet... I felt nothing.

I'm the exact opposite. Went in not expecting much but I'm hooked.

joined Apr 5, 2018

The art is freaking amazing. I love how expressive the characters are

I agree. I think thats what makes this series so moving for me even though the story is not healthy.

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