Friendly reminder, kids, if your in a room full of people and one guy is frothing at the mouth and yelling angry hateful things about gay people then the safe money on who in the room is closeted is on the one making the scene.

The same applies to pedophiles.

Another cute chapter. ^o^ Feels like there is some progress going on.

If it was merely a matter of stating one's discomfort, I'd have no problem. Personally, I'd say a bit of danger is the spice of life, and I don't understand the need some people have to sanitize something to the point where I'd feel the lifeblood and excitement's completely drained from it, but to each their own.

What I do find fault with is the need to cast the author as some kind of sick fuck because they didn't do so and also may (or may not even, apparently!) draw loli on the side, which even if they do, would be a massive leap in reasoning. It's literally a case of "stop liking what i don't like" but dressed up as moralistic prattling.

last edited at May 10, 2019 5:58PM

Friendly reminder, kids, if your in a room full of people and one guy is frothing at the mouth and yelling angry hateful things about gay people then the safe money on who in the room is closeted is on the one making the scene.

The same applies to pedophiles.

Didn't the moderator already shoot down the pedophile debate? Why are you trying to bring it back?

The context of the work doesn't matter. The content is the content and prettying it up and making it palatable doesn't make it not what it is. If someone is sensitive to bullying and feels discomfited by Hino's behaviour here because it sets of red flags for them it doesn't matter if the author doesn't intend for that to be the case. If an author writes a sex scene that sure looks and feels like rape but they pinkie swear it's not really rape people aren't mistaken in being uncomfortable with it because the authorial intent doesn't matter it looks and feels like what it looks and feels like. Just because your interpretation is in line with authorial intent doesn't mean other interpretations are flawed. I fully understand the authors intent but I straight up just don't agree with it when it comes to this most recent chapter and for others that point came earlier because they have a different line in the sand. Intent isn't magic.

Here's the most important part of this entire thing: none of your opinions on this situation have any bearing on anything. You're not going to get the story taken down. You're not going to change what's uploaded to this site. You're not going to do anything constructive. What you're doing is called shitposting, and it's annoying. If I were you, I'd stop it before you make someone angry on this site who can actually do something.

People who complain about this "making them uncomfortable" have never suffered bullying and are only part of the outrage culture. They have no fucking idea what romantic teasing is and want to be offended. Leave them be.

does anyone in this thread smoke weed

I like to think that after I ate that edible the THC never left my receptors.

Sorry, smugness is all I have when someone outright denies any thought out and nice attempts at discourse as "not a good justification".

You didn't get it, huh? I was being facetious. I know there is no right and wrong here, but you portrayed your point as legitimate and then said everyone else couldn't prove themselves "right" to you. Which is ironic as neither could you. When you are the one who makes it about right and wrong, you cannot be the one to dismiss it and pretend that you actually accomplished anything.

Ah yes, the context doesn't matter. Well if that is so, then I suppose neither do your feelings on it. I don't need to know how you came to the conclusions you did, because just at face value, your point is contradicting the actual manga. See how problematic that kind of thinking is? Context always matters. Yes, you might still feel uncomfortable, but don't you do less so, knowing the author neither intended anything bad nor will go down a bad path with the story?

In this particular case where nothing bad actually happened, none of the parties felt bad, nothing bad was even implied and you simply have nothing to base your discomfort around other than some vague feelings... Yes, I'd say the authorial intent trumps them.
Your exmaple is ludicrous and incomparable. If something bad happened and the author said it didn't, fair enough. Such a contradiction does not exist in this case however. It is a situation you can interpret both ways if you really try, but that's just it. It's vague and therefore intention matters. No magic needed.

I don't even know what you're talking about in the first paragraph I can't find a context in this exchange where it makes any sense so I can't really address it. If you could clarify I'd appreciate it.

Authors portraying things I think are bad/harmful as not bad/harmful doesn't make them less uncomfortable. In fact it makes them uncomfortable and kind of angering because it reads like propaganda supporting a stance I find distasteful. It's not about the fates of the characters it's about the actual thing that is happening itself having strong negative associations that I lack either the will or the desire to overcome. It doesn't matter if Hino isn't actually going to sexually harass Koguma I find violating people's privacy and consent distasteful and the in universe ramifications are moot because the issue isn't the fates of these people who don't exist it's that skirt flipping is gross and I don't want to read about it. Hell, it doesn't even have to be something I think is morally suspect, scat makes me uncomfortable as all hell and no amount of context or authorial intent would change that.

The thing is for some readers something bad is happening here. They feel Hino's behaviour is crossing a line and the author justifying it through Koguma's reactions isn't really different from trying to say something bad isn't happening. You clearly disagree but as I said bullying is subjective and if I didn't have a massive double standard blind spot for yuri I would find this insanely creepy because god knows if Hino was a boy I wouldn't touch this story with a mile long pole.

last edited at May 10, 2019 6:16PM

The context of the work doesn't matter. The content is the content and prettying it up and making it palatable doesn't make it not what it is. If someone is sensitive to bullying and feels discomfited by Hino's behaviour here because it sets of red flags for them it doesn't matter if the author doesn't intend for that to be the case. If an author writes a sex scene that sure looks and feels like rape but they pinkie swear it's not really rape people aren't mistaken in being uncomfortable with it because the authorial intent doesn't matter it looks and feels like what it looks and feels like. Just because your interpretation is in line with authorial intent doesn't mean other interpretations are flawed. I fully understand the authors intent but I straight up just don't agree with it when it comes to this most recent chapter and for others that point came earlier because they have a different line in the sand. Intent isn't magic.

Here's the most important part of this entire thing: none of your opinions on this situation have any bearing on anything. You're not going to get the story taken down. You're not going to change what's uploaded to this site. You're not going to do anything constructive. What you're doing is called shitposting, and it's annoying. If I were you, I'd stop it before you make someone angry on this site who can actually do something.

I haven't advocated any of those things. I don't want any of those things.

Are people actually arguing about this adorable bundle of cuteness?? I love this series. If it makes you uncomfortable, that just says something about YOU, not the story. Get over it. Love the cute. FFS people.

Here's how I think of this: could the receiving character claim the other character molested her, and seek legal action? If the answer is yes, we have an uncomfortable, rapey situation, and the other character should not have done it.

I thought Dynasty Reader to be a safe space.

I don't even know what you're talking about in the first paragraph I can't find a context in this exchange where it makes any sense so I can't really address it. If you could clarify I'd appreciate it.

Fine.

Literally no comment in this entire thread has actually effectively justified their belief that being uncomfortable with this manga is unjustified. The line between bullying/harassment and teasing is super fine and entirely subjective so it's asinine to try to claim that your particular stance is the right one when there is no right stance it's a matter of personal experience and perspective.

^This was one of your posts. You say here that nobody effectively justified their beliefs to you (while also missing the point what those beliefs were). Then you superimposed the idea of a "right stance" on the conversation that never existed. You strawmaned us (well most of us).

Authors portraying things I think are bad/harmful as not bad/harmful doesn't make them less uncomfortable. In fact it makes them uncomfortable and kind of angering because it reads like propaganda supporting a stance I find distasteful. It's not about the fates of the characters it's about the actual thing that is happening itself having strong negative associations that I lack either the will or the desire to overcome. It doesn't matter if Hino isn't actually going to sexually harass Koguma I find violating people's privacy and consent distasteful and the in universe ramifications are moot because the issue isn't the fates of these people who don't exist it's that skirt flipping is gross and I don't want to read about it. Hell, it doesn't even have to be something I think is morally suspect, scat makes me uncomfortable as all hell and no amount of context or authorial intent would change that.

Being uncomfortable over such minor things is your right. But you did put in implications towards it being bad. But it is a punchline, a joke, nothing with deeper meaning, so projecting deeper meaning into it just makes it appear that you want to feel uncomfortable and indignant about it.

(I think scat is very morally suspect. What moral life form could enjoy such degeneration?)

The thing is for some readers something bad is happening here. They feel Hino's behaviour is crossing a line and the author justifying it through Koguma's reactions isn't really different from trying to say something bad isn't happening. You clearly disagree but as I said bullying is subjective and if I didn't have a massive double standard blind spot for yuri I would find this insanely creepy because god knows if Hino was a boy I wouldn't touch this story with a mile long pole.

See, this is where context comes in. Bullying is only bullying if it is perceived as such by the party in question. Even in real life a large quanitiy of people will not see skirtflipping as bullying. Especially between two people who obviously have a crush on each other. You very suddenly have a problem with something that is on equal footing with literally every other prank/teasing Hino did until now. It might even be tamer than that time she rubbed "aphrosidiac" on Koguma.
You feeling uncomfortable? Understandable.
Classifying this as bullying or morally deplorable? Not so much.

Are people actually arguing about this adorable bundle of cuteness?? I love this series. If it makes you uncomfortable, that just says something about YOU, not the story. Get over it. Love the cute. FFS people.

Here's how I think of this: could the receiving character claim the other character molested her, and seek legal action? If the answer is yes, we have an uncomfortable, rapey situation, and the other character should not have done it.

If you're going to take the context of their relationship out of the equation then you might as well cry foul on hugging too then. Or kissing. Or anything really.

last edited at May 10, 2019 6:40PM

Are people actually arguing about this adorable bundle of cuteness?? I love this series. If it makes you uncomfortable, that just says something about YOU, not the story. Get over it. Love the cute. FFS people.

Here's how I think of this: could the receiving character claim the other character molested her, and seek legal action? If the answer is yes, we have an uncomfortable, rapey situation, and the other character should not have done it.

Two girls that obviously like each other teasing each other is not a "rapey" situation. Don't use that term so freely or you'll end up devaluing it. Even if things went south and they broke up, and one decided to seek legal action for the teasing, no court would hear it. Give me a break.

last edited at May 10, 2019 6:41PM

Are people actually arguing about this adorable bundle of cuteness?? I love this series. If it makes you uncomfortable, that just says something about YOU, not the story. Get over it. Love the cute. FFS people.

Here's how I think of this: could the receiving character claim the other character molested her, and seek legal action? If the answer is yes, we have an uncomfortable, rapey situation, and the other character should not have done it.

Two girls that obviously like each other teasing each other is not a "rapey" situation. Don't use that term so freely or you'll end up devaluing it. Even if things went south and they broke up, and one decided to seek legal action for the teasing, no prosecutor would even bring it to court. Give me a break.

and

If you're going to the context of their relationship out of the equation then you might as well cry foul on hugging too then. Or kissing. Or anything really.

Oh, boy... please calm down - that's pretty much what Chicken said, isn't it?
They are two girls, one's teasing and the other's obviously enjoying it - there's their relationship that (in a nutshell) will not have one seeking legal action against the other. So "the answer is no" and the rest of the sentence won't apply ^^;

(Edit: IF Koguma was feeling molested and not consider this as teasing herself, to the point of taking things to court at this stage, depending on the country, there could be a case made against Hino for sexual harrassment / sexual assault - she did touch her a lot already. However, most of us seem to be in agreement that Koguma is giving her consent and actually enjoys it - so she won't seek legal action.)

last edited at May 10, 2019 6:54PM

If such a thing were so self evident then this discussion wouldn't be happening, but I'll concede I may have misinterpreted the statement. (or may not have! It's pretty ambiguous).

Until Hino actually forces anything on Koguma I won't even start to worry.

Welp, she just checked out her underwear while she was sleeping so...

have you not learned by now, she never does anything lewd, im 99% sure that in the next chapter she will say she was talking about her socks or somthing

I feel like half of these comments are from users experiencing the same fever dream all at once

What kind of nightmare chapter did you guyz read?

Man, I hate moralism. Sometimes it looks like we were back on the medieval Europe.

Epicurus established that ethics is based, ultimately, on the principle of pleasure or displeasure. So the question is: Is Koguma, NOT the reader, getting hurt by Hino's treat? I can't see that in the comic, but the opposite. Koguma really loves to be teased by Hino. The second question is: Am I mansplaining? Maybe, so I should fuck off (?)

last edited at May 10, 2019 6:59PM

I don't even know what you're talking about in the first paragraph I can't find a context in this exchange where it makes any sense so I can't really address it. If you could clarify I'd appreciate it.

Fine.

Literally no comment in this entire thread has actually effectively justified their belief that being uncomfortable with this manga is unjustified. The line between bullying/harassment and teasing is super fine and entirely subjective so it's asinine to try to claim that your particular stance is the right one when there is no right stance it's a matter of personal experience and perspective.

^This was one of your posts. You say here that nobody effectively justified their beliefs to you (while also missing the point what those beliefs were). Then you superimposed the idea of a "right stance" on the conversation that never existed. You strawmaned us (well most of us).

Authors portraying things I think are bad/harmful as not bad/harmful doesn't make them less uncomfortable. In fact it makes them uncomfortable and kind of angering because it reads like propaganda supporting a stance I find distasteful. It's not about the fates of the characters it's about the actual thing that is happening itself having strong negative associations that I lack either the will or the desire to overcome. It doesn't matter if Hino isn't actually going to sexually harass Koguma I find violating people's privacy and consent distasteful and the in universe ramifications are moot because the issue isn't the fates of these people who don't exist it's that skirt flipping is gross and I don't want to read about it. Hell, it doesn't even have to be something I think is morally suspect, scat makes me uncomfortable as all hell and no amount of context or authorial intent would change that.

Being uncomfortable over such minor things is your right. But you did put in implications towards it being bad. But it is a punchline, a joke, nothing with deeper meaning, so projecting deeper meaning into it just makes it appear that you want to feel uncomfortable and indignant about it.

(I think scat is very morally suspect. What moral life form could enjoy such degeneration?)

The thing is for some readers something bad is happening here. They feel Hino's behaviour is crossing a line and the author justifying it through Koguma's reactions isn't really different from trying to say something bad isn't happening. You clearly disagree but as I said bullying is subjective and if I didn't have a massive double standard blind spot for yuri I would find this insanely creepy because god knows if Hino was a boy I wouldn't touch this story with a mile long pole.

See, this is where context comes in. Bullying is only bullying if it is perceived as such by the party in question. Even in real life a large quanitiy of people will not see skirtflipping as bullying. Especially between two people who obviously have a crush on each other. You very suddenly have a problem with something that is on equal footing with literally every other prank/teasing Hino did until now. It might even be tamer than that time she rubbed "aphrosidiac" on Koguma.
You feeling uncomfortable? Understandable.
Classifying this as bullying or morally deplorable? Not so much.

Yeah, still don't really know what you're going on about at the top, sorry. I was addressing a specific subset of people trying to claim that being uncomfortable with this manga was unreasonable/wrong/some other dismissive adjective and the fact that none of their arguments really swayed me on the subject partially because discomfort is subjective and thus can't be wrong and partly because the arguments are just all kind of ill-conceived and lacking empathy.

"It's just a joke" is not really a good defence for why people shouldn't take issue with something. Besides it's not like I'm frothing with rage I read the chapter and my response was an exasperated sigh because I really like this manga and that development skeeved me out.

Fictional characters don't have the ability to make decisions or moral judgments they are a vessel for the narrative the author wants to happen. If she were a real girl and this were a real situation my response to people uncomfortable with it would be "Mind your business unless she says otherwise" but she's not and thus her responses and decisions simply don't have the same weight. It's the same reason "Well, she CHOOSES to dress like that" falls flat as a justification for skimpy outfit designs. Koguma didn't choose anything, the author did. Also, I love teasing as much as the next girl but if someone I had a crush on peeked at my underwear while I was sleeping without my consent that crush would die a very quick death.

Until Hino actually forces anything on Koguma I won't even start to worry.

Welp, she just checked out her underwear while she was sleeping so...

have you not learned by now, she never does anything lewd, im 99% sure that in the next chapter she will say she was talking about her socks or somthing

this. the power of the "unreliable narrator" is strong with this manga. (also: the thirst is strong with this particular narrator who is still in denial of her own cravings... but she's great at projecting, and hino's quite an impressive suggester.)

Man, I hate moralism. Sometimes it looks like we were back on the medieval Europe.

Epicurus established that ethics is based, ultimately, on the principle of pleasure or displeasure. So the question is: Is Koguma, NOT the reader, getting hurt by Hino's treat? I can't see that in the comic, but the opposite. Koguma really loves to be teased by Hino. The second question is: Am I mansplaining? Maybe, so I should fuck off (?)

Koguma is not a real person therefore her feelings have no bearing on ethical considerations outside the text.

So what you're saying majere is because your projection of these events differs from Koguma's reactions its abuse or bullying ignoring Koguma's own feelings on the matter or whether it's in character for her simply because "she's fictional so her choices don't have weight"

We should just throw out the entire concept of stories with characters at this point I guess.

Until Hino actually forces anything on Koguma I won't even start to worry.

Welp, she just checked out her underwear while she was sleeping so...

have you not learned by now, she never does anything lewd, im 99% sure that in the next chapter she will say she was talking about her socks or somthing

this. the power of the "unreliable narrator" is strong with this manga. (also: the thirst is strong with this particular narrator who is still in denial of her own cravings... but she's great at projecting, and hino's quite an impressive suggester.)

I mean it's entirely possible and I hope it's the case but the framing felt a lot more like it's a one-off gag that will never be mentioned again.

Until Hino actually forces anything on Koguma I won't even start to worry.

Welp, she just checked out her underwear while she was sleeping so...

have you not learned by now, she never does anything lewd

I dunno—while I basically agree, if it’s not technically “lewd,” that kiss-activated Motivation Button is kinda heading in that direction.

(Not that there’s anything wrong . . . )