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Mei is not a horrible person and she shows all the signs of learned helplessness. Honestly, I think it is amazing how Mei is able to hold together at all considering everything people have done to her.
Starting out, everything is decided for Mei. Her school, her future and even what happens to her body. Her father abandonds her leaving all the demnds of his life on her shoulders. Her "best friend" and fience are shown sexually assaulting her and when Mei may have found a new family, her step-sister is lusting after her.
I think the two most telling parts into Mei's position is when she talks to Yuzu's mom about love, but isn't sure if that's really the advice she need. The second is when the group goes on vaction and while Mei is getting used to the idea of kissing everyday, Yuzu then assaults Mei in the bedroom. Yuzu made sexual advances, Mei said no, Yuzu refused to stop and then we see Mei alone and destraught hugging herself. Going back, Yuzu wouldn't even try to understand Mei on Christmas and then recently when Mei did try to talk to Yuzu, Yuzu stopped her because Yuzu didn't want to hear it... even though Mei was hurting.
Mei is surrounded by people ignoring her true wants and trying to tell her how to be and what to do. Meanwhile Mei is uncertain of what she truly wants; A life with Yuzu or to live up to the expecations of her family. None of whom have made it easy for her to speak up and both of whom she truly cares for. The "easier" choice was just to do what her family wants though it really isn't easy at all. Mei feels helpless and not once in her life has she been taught, learned how to nor allowed how to speak for herself.
Now we get nothing from Mei's perspective to where clearly, and so far, the majority of this story is about Yuzu. I'm not sure how a chapter that is only 30 pages or so long will show us a clear development from Mei, but I want her to yell out. I want to see her boldly face the world and people around her and make her own choice. But her life has taught her that she doesn't have one. And in the end, she gets so much hate from readers. She's shamed, victim shamed, called a horrible person, bitch, and so on. But the one time she showed a cute side, the comments turn to loving her and "God Damnit Mei!". Great, Yuzu is getting tons of support and love while Mei is completely alone once again. Had Yuzu not shut her down when she wanted to talk would things be different?
Honestly, I don't want Mei with Yuzu. I want Mei with someone who would actually take the time to understand her and love her. The best pairing out of characters in this managa would be Harumin and Mei, but I know that will never happen.
this exactly. first going into this series my biggest impression was: back the fuck off guys. not ONE person in her life showed that they just wanted her company. everyone is always AFTER something from her. yuzu wants her body. her friend wants her body. her grandfather wants her body and life to be used for his own gains. her father just completely abandons her. she doesn't need family. she doesn't need love. she just needs a friend. a friend with absolutely zero expectations from her.
Mei is not a horrible person and she shows all the signs of learned helplessness. Honestly, I think it is amazing how Mei is able to hold together at all considering everything people have done to her.
Starting out, everything is decided for Mei. Her school, her future and even what happens to her body. Her father abandonds her leaving all the demnds of his life on her shoulders. Her "best friend" and fience are shown sexually assaulting her and when Mei may have found a new family, her step-sister is lusting after her.
I think the two most telling parts into Mei's position is when she talks to Yuzu's mom about love, but isn't sure if that's really the advice she need. The second is when the group goes on vaction and while Mei is getting used to the idea of kissing everyday, Yuzu then assaults Mei in the bedroom. Yuzu made sexual advances, Mei said no, Yuzu refused to stop and then we see Mei alone and destraught hugging herself. Going back, Yuzu wouldn't even try to understand Mei on Christmas and then recently when Mei did try to talk to Yuzu, Yuzu stopped her because Yuzu didn't want to hear it... even though Mei was hurting.
Mei is surrounded by people ignoring her true wants and trying to tell her how to be and what to do. Meanwhile Mei is uncertain of what she truly wants; A life with Yuzu or to live up to the expecations of her family. None of whom have made it easy for her to speak up and both of whom she truly cares for. The "easier" choice was just to do what her family wants though it really isn't easy at all. Mei feels helpless and not once in her life has she been taught, learned how to nor allowed how to speak for herself.
Now we get nothing from Mei's perspective to where clearly, and so far, the majority of this story is about Yuzu. I'm not sure how a chapter that is only 30 pages or so long will show us a clear development from Mei, but I want her to yell out. I want to see her boldly face the world and people around her and make her own choice. But her life has taught her that she doesn't have one. And in the end, she gets so much hate from readers. She's shamed, victim shamed, called a horrible person, bitch, and so on. But the one time she showed a cute side, the comments turn to loving her and "God Damnit Mei!". Great, Yuzu is getting tons of support and love while Mei is completely alone once again. Had Yuzu not shut her down when she wanted to talk would things be different?
Honestly, I don't want Mei with Yuzu. I want Mei with someone who would actually take the time to understand her and love her. The best pairing out of characters in this managa would be Harumin and Mei, but I know that will never happen.
this exactly. first going into this series my biggest impression was: back the fuck off guys. not ONE person in her life showed that they just wanted her company. everyone is always AFTER something from her. yuzu wants her body. her friend wants her body. her grandfather wants her body and life to be used for his own gains. her father just completely abandons her. she doesn't need family. she doesn't need love. she just needs a friend. a friend with absolutely zero expectations from her.
Wait. Who's her best friend? I read Citrus ages ago and now I've forgotten.
Mei is not a horrible person and she shows all the signs of learned helplessness. Honestly, I think it is amazing how Mei is able to hold together at all considering everything people have done to her.
Starting out, everything is decided for Mei. Her school, her future and even what happens to her body. Her father abandonds her leaving all the demnds of his life on her shoulders. Her "best friend" and fience are shown sexually assaulting her and when Mei may have found a new family, her step-sister is lusting after her.
I think the two most telling parts into Mei's position is when she talks to Yuzu's mom about love, but isn't sure if that's really the advice she need. The second is when the group goes on vaction and while Mei is getting used to the idea of kissing everyday, Yuzu then assaults Mei in the bedroom. Yuzu made sexual advances, Mei said no, Yuzu refused to stop and then we see Mei alone and destraught hugging herself. Going back, Yuzu wouldn't even try to understand Mei on Christmas and then recently when Mei did try to talk to Yuzu, Yuzu stopped her because Yuzu didn't want to hear it... even though Mei was hurting.
Mei is surrounded by people ignoring her true wants and trying to tell her how to be and what to do. Meanwhile Mei is uncertain of what she truly wants; A life with Yuzu or to live up to the expecations of her family. None of whom have made it easy for her to speak up and both of whom she truly cares for. The "easier" choice was just to do what her family wants though it really isn't easy at all. Mei feels helpless and not once in her life has she been taught, learned how to nor allowed how to speak for herself.
Now we get nothing from Mei's perspective to where clearly, and so far, the majority of this story is about Yuzu. I'm not sure how a chapter that is only 30 pages or so long will show us a clear development from Mei, but I want her to yell out. I want to see her boldly face the world and people around her and make her own choice. But her life has taught her that she doesn't have one. And in the end, she gets so much hate from readers. She's shamed, victim shamed, called a horrible person, bitch, and so on. But the one time she showed a cute side, the comments turn to loving her and "God Damnit Mei!". Great, Yuzu is getting tons of support and love while Mei is completely alone once again. Had Yuzu not shut her down when she wanted to talk would things be different?
Honestly, I don't want Mei with Yuzu. I want Mei with someone who would actually take the time to understand her and love her. The best pairing out of characters in this managa would be Harumin and Mei, but I know that will never happen.
this exactly. first going into this series my biggest impression was: back the fuck off guys. not ONE person in her life showed that they just wanted her company. everyone is always AFTER something from her. yuzu wants her body. her friend wants her body. her grandfather wants her body and life to be used for his own gains. her father just completely abandons her. she doesn't need family. she doesn't need love. she just needs a friend. a friend with absolutely zero expectations from her.
Wait. Who's her best friend? I read Citrus ages ago and now I've forgotten.
Wait. f the next chapter is the last, then we won't get the sex scene. -_-. K, I guess. But I have been waiting to see some hot action of them for over a year
Wait. Who's her best friend? I read Citrus ages ago and now I've forgotten.
Momokino Himeko aka Drill-chan
She should play it lke "The Laureate". Snatching the bride at the altar.
last edited at Jul 19, 2018 4:42AM
Wait. f the next chapter is the last, then we won't get the sex scene. -_-. K, I guess. But I have been waiting to see some hot action of them for over a year
Great, thanks, my eyes rolled into the back of my head and now I'm permanently blinded.
What now?
NTR!?
On a different note, it’s nice to see Matsuri’s talent for telling creepy lies used for good.
Mei deserves the hardest slap.
Glad that Citrus is ending. Biggest twist would be Saburo Uta trolls her fans. Remember, Mei and Yuzu are still sisters. XD
last edited at Jul 19, 2018 12:44PM
Woah!!! The final move is on baby... Oh yeah, this is getting interesting... XD
is there no one in this manga know how to communicate ? Mei is still at the same school , yuzu. drag her somewhere and ask her , not run in her home as illegal immigrant. I cant even finish this chapter . It looks pathetic.
The biggest revelation of this series is that Matsuri was right all along about everything.
I only wish Mei was half the person Matsuri is; they were both neglected and resentful kids but while Matsuri started at an arguably much worse point with her sociopathic tendencies, she progressed in the series and ended up showing she loves Yuzu for real (even if no longer romantic) in a way that Mei never did and never will.
Meanwhile, Mei from beginning to end only acts out of negative feelings like jealousy and possessiveness, never caring about others or showing generosity. The fact that she decided to hurry up the wedding upon seeing Yuzu happy again after 8 months of clearly knowing she was depressed was the last drop for me. People can say, "oh that's because she is broken" but in reality that's not the issue here. The issue is that the way we REACT to the bad things that happen to us, is what shows who we truly are. Yuzu also has reasons for grief, she lost her father as a child, her mom is always working and they were seemingly not well-off. All the other wealthy girls also seem to be in arranged marriages that they don't want to be in. So what gives? They all act caring and generous, and even if they made mistakes they all improve as people along the way. Except Mei!
And I say this as someone who thought Mei was developing and she was my favourite character before. But through this arc, I realized she isn't a good person. In my opinion the "bittersweetness" of this story is that yes Yuzu will get who she wants in the end after all this fight, but who she wants is not who she deserves.
last edited at Jul 19, 2018 12:09PM
Wtf this is ending next chapter ?? I heard that there was gonna be 52 chapters in total , why is it suddenly ending in 41? Can someone explain? And did Saburo Uta confirm anything?
The biggest revelation of this series is that Matsuri was right all along about everything.
(...)
^ It really is crazy how much development a side character like Matsuri has gotten yet Mei simply hasn't changed at all. Sure we know how she feels about Yuzu, but she still continues making really dumb decisions. After everything that's happened and everyone she's met you would think she would understand that doing what she wants for once is okay, yet she continues to inflict pain on herself for... her pride? I just don't understand what she's resisting for anymore - and I'm not sure I really care anymore. At this point, Mei just really frustrates me more than I expected.
It would be nice if the announcement meant that Yuzu and Mei's story is coming to an end, but maybe we'll get a spin-off. I would really like to see more focus on Harumin and Matsuri. There's so much potential there, and I find myself enjoying chapters more when they get more screentime.
There’s always a split between reading a character as a hypothetical real human being and as an authorial construction (that’s one of the fun things about reading fiction), but in this case and at this point it seems to me that critiques of Mei’s actions, personality, and motivations are really beside the point.
Readers aren’t supposed to despise Mei one chapter from the end and think that she and Yuzu don’t belong together. And the fact that readers have good reason to feel that way is the author’s fault.
Theoretically, that anti-Mei attitude could be a function of cultural differences, and Japanese audiences might have considerably more tolerance and sympathy for Mei’s self-sacrifice and commitment to duty than Western audiences do.
But one of the main points of interest in Mei as a character all along was the way she was opening up emotionally and developing in relation to Yuzu. By removing her from the plot for such an extended period and basically putting her character back to square one (engaged to be married for the sake of the family), Saburouta has essentially made the story be entirely about Yuzu and her feelings rather than about the relationship between the two.
This latest chapter has made me think that this whole series has been much more old-fashioned and superficial than I once thought it was going be. That is, by devoting the next-to-last chapter to depicting a tag-team of helpers enabling Yuzu to star in an episode of “Rescue the Princess,” the series aligns itself more with 101 Dalmatians or Scooby Doo than with even comedic manga that are still interested in developing their characters.
So rather than seeing Mei as a bad person who will end up with Yuzu despite being unworthy of her, I see a fictional character who was thrown under the bus by an author who was uninterested in developing the themes, plot points, and ideas raised by the rest of the series.
The fundamental problem with Mei, and one she still hasn't been able to break out of, is an excessively deeply ingrained and self-sacrificing sense of duty. You can pretty much pin the blame for that shit on her grandfather, who as a dyed-in-the-wool Traditional Asian Parent didn't take the hint that there might be something fundamentally wrong with how he does things from his own son fucking cracking under the pressure and quite literally running away.
Pretty much the whole cast by now has to one degree of another trying to wean her from that garbage for a while but hey, deep-rooted psychological issues. Guessing the basic idea in the finale - however clumsy the actual narrative execution now may be - is Yuzu forcing her to make the choice over how she intends to live her life face to face, without the detachement of distance. A form of shock therapy you might say; force her to confront the topic head on with no room for evasions and all the usual self-deceptions people now engage in to justify courses of action they're uncomfortable with.
It's a lot harder to make momentous and painful decisions involving another person when they're looking you straight in the eye than when you can insulate the issue into an abstraction in solitude, after all.
This latest chapter has made me think that this whole series has been much more old-fashioned and superficial than I once thought it was going be. That is, by devoting the next-to-last chapter to depicting a tag-team of helpers enabling Yuzu to star in an episode of “Rescue the Princess,” the series aligns itself more with 101 Dalmatians or Scooby Doo than with even comedic manga that are still interested in developing their characters.
So rather than seeing Mei as a bad person who will end up with Yuzu despite being unworthy of her, I see a fictional character who was thrown under the bus by an author who was uninterested in developing the themes, plot points, and ideas raised by the rest of the series.
Agree completely. If read as a real human being, Mei is at this point unworthy of Yuzu. In my opinion not because of her sense of duty, which could even be seen as commendable in principle, but because of her lack of empathy about what Yuzu might be feeling, and her reaction of always trying to hurt/punish Yuzu when she feels Yuzu is "moving on" (as made clear in multiple arcs -- Matsuri's, the twins', and now in this).
If read purely as an author construct, ever since they had started dating, Mei was definitely shown to evolve but that only misled the readers completely. The entire story also, as far as I knew, was about Yuzu AND Mei, not only about Yuzu. That Sabu would throw everything up the air, ghost someone who was assumed to be by many (most?) readers to be the co-lead and show her in such a negative light is bizarre. Even if Mei comes around in the end, it feels so forced.
last edited at Jul 19, 2018 2:04PM
I had kind of read Mei’s moving up the marriage date as more of a “throw herself on the pyre and get it over with” move than a “punish Yuzu” one. And I’ve tried to steer clear of predictive lamenting (that is, speculating about what may happen next and then complaining about it, even though it hasn’t actually happened), but with only one episode left I’m giving myself permisssion:
The only possible happy resolution to the plot is for Mei to change her mind about the marriage. (There are probably plenty of possible compromises about the school/inheritance issue—not necessarily plausible ones in real life, but of the pulled-out-of-the-author’s-ass type.)
So what would be the grounds on which she would do this? Your reading suggests the possibility of a “But when I saw you laughing with your friends I thought you no longer cared! What a fool I’ve been!” approach.
Which would be ridiculous for any number of reasons, but then, so would anything else I can think of, since Mei has been angsting through a life-changing decision for the last six chapters and now must do a complete turnaround in maybe 4 pages (if we’re lucky).
So let me announce this right now—if Saburouta can somehow resolve this story in some way that doesn’t violate, gloss over, or completely ignore its own previous major premises about the characters and about the way the story’s world works, and can craft a happy ending that doesn’t make Mei look like a unstable narcissist and Yuzu look like a willful and delusional child, I will gladly take back all my criticism and admit that author-sensei is a highest-level master practitioner of the art of manga.
(And no, “Shou suddenly intervenes yadda yadda yadda all is well!” would not be what I’m looking for.)
Maybe she wants us to figure out by ourselves that Mei is an unstable narcissist and Yuzu is delusional. This has been portrayed as a love story but doesn't mean it's a healthy one that we are supposed to be cheering for. It certainly seems that way, when all the other girls were basically asking Yuzu the whole time "are you sure you want to go for this girl?" as though they themselves don't think this is a good idea. None of them were like "hell yeah, let's save Mei!!!". They helped only because they care about Yuzu.
last edited at Jul 19, 2018 3:49PM
The delusions are real.
Starting out, everything is decided for Mei. Her school, her future and even what happens to her body. Her father abandonds her leaving all the demnds of his life on her shoulders. Her "best friend" and fience are shown sexually assaulting her and when Mei may have found a new family, her step-sister is lusting after her.
Nope, Mei decided it all herself. She decided to stay with her grandpa over her father. She wasnt abandoned. She chose to be engaged to the teacher just like how she chose to get engaged to the manager. Yuzu wouldnt be lusting for her if Mei didnt choose to force herself on her on their first night together.
Mei isnt a victim. Everything she has ever done was the result of her own choices and actions.
"She decided to stay with her grandpa over her father. She wasn't abandoned."
Mei had always lived with her father and continued to live in his apartment after he left while her grandfather financially supported her. When her father left, Mei was only ten years old. And at such a young age, she decided to work for her family not because she felt she had a choice in the matter, but because she thought it was the only way to get her dad back. When we do see Mei's father, he openly admits that he left Mei knowing that she needed him, but he left anyway believing Mei, at only 10 years old, was able to take care of herself within a severly strict and demanding family.
"Yuzu wouldnt be lusting for her if Mei didnt choose to force herself on her on their first night together."
This comment implies that abuse leads to sexual attraction which is dangerous to say. The first night, Yuzu was making fun of the time Mei was being assaulted by her fiance. She kissed Yuzu to shut her up which isn't a response I condone, but Yuzu was being really inappropriate which really defines actions on both sides. Neither knows better, Mei does it for one reason and Yuzu does it for another and none of it was healthy. However, when both start to understand what these things mean, Mei retreats while Yuzu remains aggressive. The scene on the trip would have been rape had Yuzu not been interrupted which leads to the biggest issue with this manga, it implies abuse is okay so long as there is love. And that is another dangerous thing to say.
My frustration with the story is that neither Yuzu nor Mei are horrible people, just two teens that don't know any better yet while Yuzu is treated as an absolute angel, Mei is thrown under the bus by both readers and the author. Both characters are also used in a story where abusive behaviors are acceptable, easily forgiven or ignored. And then when the story can make anything out of itself, it becomes a story all about Yuzu and we see none of the development desperately needed from Mei beyond her looking depressed because this isn't what she wants -- only doing so because she feels she has no other choice, she doesn't know how to ask for help, and the writer decided to skip her development and rush an ending. @Blastaar makes some strong points on the last part there.
"Yuzu wouldnt be lusting for her if Mei didnt choose to force herself on her on their first night together."
This comment implies that abuse leads to sexual attraction which is dangerous to say. The first night, Yuzu was making fun of the time Mei was being assaulted by her fiance. She kissed Yuzu to shut her up which isn't a response I condone, but Yuzu was being really inappropriate which really defines actions on both sides. Neither knows better, Mei does it for one reason and Yuzu does it for another and none of it was healthy. However, when both start to understand what these things mean, Mei retreats while Yuzu remains aggressive. The scene on the trip would have been rape had Yuzu not been interrupted which leads to the biggest issue with this manga, it implies abuse is okay so long as there is love. And that is another dangerous thing to say.
No matter how you look at it, what Mei did at that moment and others in the series is sexual harassment, and Yuzu started lusting after her because of the forced contact. The anime makes it even clearer the violent intention of the scene. Yet Yuzu making fun of her due to clearly assuming the kiss with the teacher was consensual doesn't warrant being force-kissed in retribution. Even if she had known the kiss with the teacher was forced, sexually harassing someone because of a verbal aggression is kinda crazy no?
In any case, this is such a common trope in romance manga; I honestly think it's just cultural differences. For example you interpret Yuzu tackling Mei for sex and Mei putting in some resistance as a rape attempt, but actually I know for a fact women in Japan are supposed to show some reluctance in those moments. Why I don't know. But again, cultural differences. I suspect the Japanese think Mei is a totally normal person and only westerners are baffled.
Jesus I cant Harumi's sis is so hot.
Re: Endless, Cyclical Confusion (and again, why there's never been any point in personal speculation about the superfluous/typical soap-aspects everyone here loves so much):
A) Stated earlier {366645} (with later, added emphasis): "...in the case of Mei, you have the war of extremist personal service/duty (a fundamental aspect of Mei's type) versus acknowledged, charged, life-upheaving, mixed-bag rationalizations for "love"; this sort of situation produces hardcore emotional skeptics, hence the reader frustration and author confusion with Mei: how does one get a young skeptic to believe in the truth of young love? Without more insight, i.e., development, you "hammer" on them until they change/break." There is only so much that can be ascribed to Tropes when you're only given crumbs within a culturally clichéd context.
B) This tunnel-vision MO/impetus on top of extended, narrative presentation where "...so much (is) being seen through a rose-tinted/biased-as-hell lens" {362586} ... that's "...all coming from a highly neurotic, adult-creator POV that most identifies with Yuzu." {365218}
C) There really shouldn't be such outrage over messages regarding abuse because 1) this is uberniche (and Japanese niches have a huge tolerance/allowance for all flavors of violence and perversion). And 2) this is the fault of someone choosing a cross-genre where the deeper comprehension of Drama lags far behind skill with Comedy; without much any comedy, Saburouta wasted a lot of energy flailing about in what just might be a polluted, shallow/kiddie pool instead of actual dark waters. (The wasted sex-blackmail sitch is now an annoying setup; an idea cherry-picked for its intrinsic, high-Drama/adult-like? value, not because she had any real comprehension of the emotional mess that it would have entailed; cheaply used and discarded.) In comparison to other yuri publications that I've come across, Citrus has been hilarious for a good part of the run, which (again) undercuts a lot of what might be deemed serious, dramatic material. I was willing to overlook at lot as long as it continued to be funny, but alas, what may had started off seeming like she wouldn't squander potential {361909} has become just that... and it's due (IMO) to point E (below).
D) There is zero historical, commercially published proof that Saburouta is even "capable of writing a better ending than this", and also no evidence of the author truly "phoning it in", as a few would like to believe with recouched ideas. Saburouta has already announced that she's been exhausted {370179}: the delayed releases have been proof.
E) She's had enormous creative problems handling the feedback for Ch 36: the WTF chapters post-36 have been in direct response to this, i.e., lots of emo-dithering (and true to her sense and use of emo-logic {362063}), with reliance on surrounding family/friends to bounce around feckless or overly redundant ideas that give no real insight into much anything since it follows Yuzu around, i.e., all that Saburouta truly comprehends in full. When emo-logic really only applies to Yuzu, you can't have friends/others taking on the burden that would destroy the "purity" and drive of Yuzu's emotions. Mei's true (painfully predictable) reasoning for the letter/break-off took forever and a day for a quiet reveal, but via a third party, and was still executed indirectly since it had be described/paired with Yuzu's face in the frame. The very tedium of this MO (see also pts A and B) while trying to keep things "light", for the hybrid genre-- why do folks keep forgetting this?, is near impossible without venturing into more mature, darker territory. This is nothing but blatant examples of intellectual floundering in an exploratory work that's covered (skillfully) with the high degree of visual art, i.e., if Saburouta's unsure, there's intentional, uber-precise use of ambiguous character expressions and layouts in hopes of covering her ass; it's the only way of saving some face in a losing battle.
F) Now, with this penultimate release in the aftermath of YET another announcement--but one of complete and utter Exhaustion, i.e., only enough steam left for one more chapter, it's nothing BUT in-your-face Proof that the creative well has run dry (for this particular IP).
Work long enough with different types of artists, and these trends crop up ad nauseam...
Saburouta is valiantly, sincerely persevering to the series' end--partly as a cultural thing, partly due to the media-based attention--without completely shitting over the rest, so I'm guessing there's going to be continuation of "meh" comedy for the finale. (It's where she used to shine, and really, what else can be expected for a forced Happy Ending even if there's a high probability the skill level of featured "funny" will be Basic/Easy/Default? If you've ever witnessed out-of-shape, casual joggers, and seen the part of their run where they look like they're about to faceplant, but "persevere" anyway--in exceptionally bad or questionable athletic form--for the sake of finishing the workout... that's where Saburouta appears to be, on multiple levels, from a creator-perspective.)
If for whatever reason there's a dramatically-skewed conclusion with next to no comedy, so be it--the work's finality speaks for itself and the true mangaka mindset, so I definitely won't be interested in her later endeavors, but it's clear for the time being that she's forgone trying to explain the hell out of Mei. It seems beyond her to consider much beyond her status as a cultural trope.
I have no clue what you just said but I agree because it's 800+ words