A comparison that, notably, was about finding Misa better than Hase. Regardless of anyone's subjective opinions, Io right now definitely sees them as different and sees Misa as far better, and it's her opinion that matters most wrt if a lover is "good for her".

Given her past actions and decisions, I don't have much confidence in her judgment about what's "good for her." I understand your point, but I don't see her as a reliable narrator or decision-maker—which seems central to her issues. How she judges these people or these situations is not high on my value chart. I am with thechampionmike95 on this one. Neither woman is presented well here and Misa is only "good for Io" because she has worse actors across from her. I guess the "lesser of two (or three?) evils" wins out though.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 5:55PM

@Gabinomicon

A comparison that, notably, was about finding Misa better than Hase. Regardless of anyone's subjective opinions, Io right now definitely sees them as different and sees Misa as far better, and it's her opinion that matters most wrt if a lover is "good for her". 


The comparison I meant was Io saying: “After I finally managed to get away from Hase san, why would you do something like this too, Misa-san?” Not a very favorable comparison.

We also frequently see Io blushing and similar while being bossed around by Hase, while they have similar aloof, cold demeanors. Misa seems to be aware of the similarities between herself and Hase, making her feel insecure.

It is still true that Io chose Misa and had no hesitation or doubt in doing so, instead saying that it’s because it’s Misa that she’s willing to be obedient. Misa herself is not convinced, fearing that Io is with her out of desperation. The reality appears more complicated.

Misa and Io have both crossed major lines with each other, lines that would be understandable if treated as "unforgivable" by the characters. But they've thus far forgiven each other for these crossed lines, due to the attention and care they give to each other that makes it clear they don't want to violate or hurt each other. They make mistakes, they notice the negative response, they apologize and strive to treat the other better. I think that's pretty sweet, personally. :)

Misa’s supposed remorse has not been very persuasive to me. She sometimes expresses that her actions are wrong, but she continues to do them. For example, she assaulted or attempted to assault Io at least three times. She ignored Io being uncomfortable with sexual acts in public settings three times: initially in the pickup club when Io felt like curtains were insufficient, a second time in the pickup club outside the curtains, and in the latest chapters.

At points she appears more concerned about social consequences, like when she says that seeing Io is a one-time thing so “if she wakes up, then she wakes up.” Rather than properly apologizing to Io when she finds out Io was awake, her first impulse is to think Io is there to criticize her and to get annoyed.

With the latest chapters, I am pretty sure she actually feels bad, but I don’t think she has learned her lesson in any meaningful way. It’s more likely she repeats her supposed mistakes, given her past behavior, and her understanding of her wrongdoing seems limited to thinking that she needed to take it down a notch.

In contrast, Io hasn’t done anything that bad. Running after someone you see in a crowd because you’re excited to see them again is a nonissue to me. The “stalking” by showing up at Misa’s club at least followed Misa’s request not to come back to Misa’s apartment. This wouldn’t be a very believable misunderstanding from most people, but we know it is with Io. Even if Io needs much explained like you would with a child, she doesn’t repeat a mistake like this after realizing it was wrong.

@SrNevik

Given her past actions and decisions, I don't have much confidence in her judgment about what's "good for her." I understand your point, but I don't see her as a reliable narrator or decision-maker—which seems central to her issues. How she judges these people or these situations is not high on my value chart. I am with thechampionmike95 on this one. Neither woman is presented well here and Misa is only "good for Io" because she has worse actors across from her. I guess the "lesser of two (or three?) evils" wins out though.

Io not knowing what’s good for her is a foundational aspect of her character, I would say. In addition to Io’s young age and lack of experience, she has been made to associate some very destructive behaviors with love and care. This is part of what draws her to Misa in the first place when she could be finding more responsible sadists. The story is set up in the way where Misa is nonetheless her only chance, as otherwise, Io would be completely isolated. Misa is also trying to teach Io to set boundaries with people who aren’t Misa, which is more than anyone else is doing. I would say Misa has been a net positive influence on Io.

Misa meanwhile had given up on love and, while admired by many like Io, appears to not have any non-superficial friends. In that sense, Misa is also very isolated, with Io being her only real emotional connection. Misa protects her public reputation, but not many people besides Io would be willing to accept Misa’s limitations after finding out about them. This makes it easy for me to root for them as a couple. In real life, they would be better off as friends at best, but story wise there is lots of potential for their relationship to develop in both positive and negative ways. Also lots of potential for more crying Io scenes, but we can pretend that’s not why I’m here.

I'm very uncomfortable with saying "she doesn't know what's best for her, I know better" about a character whose flaws are the result of trauma and maladaption from having all control of her life taken away. Even if on some objective level you could point out problems, it's important for someone like Io to start making choices for herself, regardless of how well she makes them. You can see her improving and changing more than anyone over the course of the manga so far as she ndulges in expressing freedom outside the prying eyes of her manager, and then begins reflecting on things and growing more comfortable with making choices and more capable of making a judgement, trusting her judgement, and acting on it. I don't think pre-Masa Io would have fought off Hase's rape attempt, sadly.

I'm very uncomfortable with saying "she doesn't know what's best for her, I know better" about a character whose flaws are the result of trauma and maladaption from having all control of her life taken away.

As it's a story, I think we have more than enough information to suggest that. This isn't a real person where there is ambiguity and mystery. We are essentially omniscient. Of course she has reasons for her problems but the problems are very apparent and, as you ended up saying anyway, a key part of her character that can't be ignored.

She is not a reliable judge of character at the moment, for all the reasons you mentioned. Yes, she has to overcome that but this conversation was about how we view Misa and the manager, and Misa doesn't get a pass because the trauma filled girl she's done "odd" things to judges her well. She's not much better, but it's a story and I accept it as it is. Io is a victim of a lot of people in this manga. Misa isn't as bad as the manager but that's not a high bar. In this kind of story she gets to be the "savior," in another she'd be the villain. She's getting better though and I do like her.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 7:53AM

I do agree with Io making choices for herself is progress and would not want to be in charge of Io's choices if she were real. Someone not knowing what's best for themselves I don't see as that controversial. It's very possible for any of us to misjudge this and some people have a worse track record than others. The problem is using someone's lack of knowledge as an excuse to control their life or to call their autonomy into question, which I am not worried about happening with Io since she isn't real.

Of course my words could lead to a reader wanting to control a real person who reminds them of Io. This would be a much bigger issue I hadn't been keeping in mind, but, Gabinomicon, I think you have adequately disclaimed everything. My position here is still Misa is only good for Io relative to Io's terrible situation and that a great number of Io's choices are self destructive in a way that's been intentionally hidden from her by Hase and her mother.

Edit: I would also like to point out that recognizing when someone isn't in a good mental space to make a choice is part of being responsible. This is why eg as an adult you don't date a teenager even if the teenager is really into the idea and the one pursuing you. Some situations are more legal but not really safer. I would likely not date someone as isolated and traumatized as Io, even if that person wanted to date me. My conclusion would be that what she really needs is a friend, especially one who is an outside influence and will stick with her past her mom's machinations. This would be thinking I know better than Io's analogue, but I would be expressing it through altering my own behavior rather than through trying to control theirs.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 9:58AM

Best romance I personally ever had was when we both went into it as basically even worse mental health-wise than Io lmao. It faded eventually, nothing lasts forever, but the time we spent together saved each other's lives. Because of that very positive experience I'm a proponent of the "bad romance" now: if a romance goes against conventional wisdom but it makes you feel better than you've ever felt in your life, then trust yourself over what's best on average for everyone else. Especially if it's a queer relationship and that conventional wisdom is almost entirely stuff straight people say to each other.
There's a couple things in particular that stand out to me as unconventionally good signs in this specific scenario:
1) unlike Hase, who wants to own Io and control every aspect of her life, Misa is attracted to how well Io responds to her. She doesn't want to "own" Io, she wants to pleasure her. She's getting those good top "it feels amazing to give this woman the time of her life" endorphins. Her judgement might be lacking but her motivation at least is right where it needs to be.
2) Misa is very observant of Io's reactions and adjusts her actions and pacing for the most part. For most of the things we've seen that, from our perspective are major violations that Misa should feel terrible for, from Io's perspective they're just a little oopsie no big deal, and so while Misa will be unhappy with herself in her internal monologue, she still sets her external tone to what Io wants. Io doesn't want Misa to grovel and beg for forgiveness for the sleep masturbation thing, she wants to do it again because she thinks that was a super good time. And so Misa obliges, more and more readily as she goes.
Io is basically training Misa to be her perfect top, and getting positive results for that sure as hell seems to make her feel like she's on top of the world. It's a beautiful thing, really.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 10:58AM

I suppose I had the opposite experience in that I had someone ignoring my vulnerabilities, making various promises to me that were not actually possible to keep, and then having that end really badly for me in a way where I could not be alive if I had made slightly different choices. This helped me in the end, but in a more literal "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" way.

I don't blame this person because I think she believed this would be the best way to help me, while I knew enough to make my own decisions. Still, I think caution is warranted and would not want to date someone who entirely lacked a support network other than myself. I would want to help them start establishing a support network that could persist past a romantic relationship instead. This is a different factor than mental health per se, as I would not mind dating someone with even a 'serious' psychiatric diagnosis.

Other conclusions could be made, but, with Io's situation being very extreme, the chance of something like this ending well in real life would be quite low.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 11:23AM

Apologies for the delay on getting this out, I had a fall a few weeks ago and hurt my hip and tailbone badly enough that I've had a hard time sitting long enough to do the SFX cleaning on this. On the mend now, so hopefully we'll have chapter 13 out in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, this chapter did a great job building a sense of dread for the coming story arc...

The more anxiety it gives the greater the payoff will be when it all goes well.. right?

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

Apologies for the delay on getting this out, I had a fall a few weeks ago and hurt my hip and tailbone badly enough that I've had a hard time sitting long enough to do the SFX cleaning on this. On the mend now, so hopefully we'll have chapter 13 out in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, this chapter did a great job building a sense of dread for the coming story arc...

So sorry to hear about your injury. Sending good healing thoughts and good health to you! Get well soon and take your time resting. :) Thank you for the great work!

I hope that the other girl's investigations are supportive of Misa and don't mess up Misa's life. Like, what if she was just a concerned friend who ended up giving Misa a shoulder to lean on? Ah, optimism.... gets me nowhere lol. Probably gonna witness some crazy blow up between Misa and Hase. I wonder how Io is going to get Hase out of her house, or trick her in order to sneak out.

I wonder why this chapter is called "You Can Stay Here," given the opposite statement was implied by Io telling Hase to get out of her apartment. The title got my hopes up a bit, that we'd see Io cohabitate with Misa lol.

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

...She was afraid and they were physically struggling. She's not blushing, her face is flushed from being in a fight. Io was definitely not turned on by this woman she hates fighting her, that's not how kinks work. The person and the context matters. I don't even understand how this could even be difficult to see, she kept thinking about Misa the whole scene ffs.

I hope that the other girl's investigations are supportive of Misa and don't mess up Misa's life. Like, what if she was just a concerned friend who ended up giving Misa a shoulder to lean on? Ah, optimism.... gets me nowhere lol. Probably gonna witness some crazy blow up between Misa and Hase. I wonder how Io is going to get Hase out of her house, or trick her in order to sneak out.

I don't think you're reaching that far out on the puppy girl, she's certainly not framed as malicious at all, just tactless, curious, and possibly even wanting to be friends with Misa. Her amoral client acting without her hoping for some kind of profitable scoop seems much more likely as a threat imo.

Could Io grow a spine already? Hase should be in fucking prison.

Could Io grow a spine already?

Telling a person with a complex childhood trauma to grow a spine is like telling a depressed person to just stop being sad. The sentiment is meant to be nice, but mental health just doesn't work this way.

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

Both, but that isn't the blushing you should be concerned with. She was blushing when her manager slid up her body while pulling up her dress--even had the typical heart pound to make it clearer. She had a similar reaction their first time. She seems to only catch herself after a bit of time passes with Manager. In this scene only after manager had already slid down her back and pulled up her clothes did she catch herself. Those aren't quick motions and the blushing and heart pound aren't there for show. It's not the first time her manager interactions have been depicted this way before shifting. The implication is not something I'm a fan of. I see it as something predictive and I'd rather the story not go there, especially with them now living together.

last edited at Jan 13, 2025 7:01AM

The spanish came out on this a while back. It really feels like a setup chapter, showing us how Waka is going to get into contact with Hase, Io seeking more independence from Mom/Hase using new (and likely still fragile) confidence from her relationship with Misa, and Hase escalating likely leading her to stay with Misa. Misa had been privately considering that last part privately already, but she explicitly told Io that Io could come whenever she wanted. Then villain mom will need to do whatever she is considering to try to regain control of Io.

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

Io with Hase is often drawn in a way that's similar to how she is with Misa. It's likely it does to some significant extent, but she is also afraid and not comfortable with what Hase is doing. Being attracted to someone doesn't necessarily mean you want to do things with them for real, nor does not wanting to do things with someone necessarily mean you see them as unattractive.

last edited at Jan 13, 2025 8:14AM

Io with Hase is often drawn in a way that's similar to how she is with Misa. It's likely it does to some significant extent, but she is also afraid and not comfortable with what Hase is doing. Being attracted to someone doesn't necessarily mean you want to do things with them for real, nor does no wanting to do things with someone necessarily mean you see them as unattractive.

Good points

Io consistently refuses her advances and tbh her response time is pretty quick imo. Testament to rape culture and the terrible situation Io is in that Hase is getting away with all this

last edited at Jan 13, 2025 7:57AM

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

Both, but that isn't the blushing you should be concerned with. She was blushing when her manager slid up her body while pulling up her dress--even had the typical heart pound to make it clearer. She had a similar reaction their first time. She seems to only catch herself after a bit of time passes with Manager. In this scene only after manager had already slid down her back and pulled up her clothes did she catch herself. Those aren't quick motions and the blushing and heart pound aren't there for show. It's not the first time her manager interactions have been depicted this way before shifting. The implication is not something I'm a fan of. I see it as something predictive and I'd rather the story not go there, especially with them now living together.

She seemed to have some involuntary physical reactions but that only really says something about how Hase was touching her, rather than Io's preferences or feelings about Hase. Those are defined pretty clearly by Io fighting her off and then putting a locked door between them, and she's definitely "scared and overexerted" not "horny" in that final panel of the chapter. Io's BDSM interests aren't anything in Hase's favor. Subs don't just take on anyone just because they're subs.

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

Both, but that isn't the blushing you should be concerned with. She was blushing when her manager slid up her body while pulling up her dress--even had the typical heart pound to make it clearer. She had a similar reaction their first time. She seems to only catch herself after a bit of time passes with Manager. In this scene only after manager had already slid down her back and pulled up her clothes did she catch herself. Those aren't quick motions and the blushing and heart pound aren't there for show. It's not the first time her manager interactions have been depicted this way before shifting. The implication is not something I'm a fan of. I see it as something predictive and I'd rather the story not go there, especially with them now living together.

She seemed to have some involuntary physical reactions but that only really says something about how Hase was touching her, rather than Io's preferences or feelings about Hase. Those are defined pretty clearly by Io fighting her off and then putting a locked door between them, and she's definitely "scared and overexerted" not "horny" in that final panel of the chapter. Io's BDSM interests aren't anything in Hase's favor. Subs don't just take on anyone just because they're subs.

We'll have to see where the story takes it. I'm not that confident in your interpretation of her behavior, or what it's implying. Would love to agree with you though and it's possible that's all it is. I'm a bit skeptical at the moment.

last edited at Jan 13, 2025 4:03PM

Seems like it's gonna get spicier and even more toxic... Lovely!
It's probably gonna hurt a bit, or be slightly painful, but I'm hyped.
Thanks for the chapter!

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

nah I think it's pretty clear that shes huffing because she just ran and locked the door behind her. She's terrified

like she's getting blushy because hearing Misa's name is enough to give her a somatic response lol

Is that last shot of Io panting and blushing a sign that Hase being violent on her actually does the trick too, or is it just she's afraid?

Hard to tell. She's blushing a lot but it could just be due to the physical exertion of pushing Hase away.