Oof... I love that line. She was trying to overwrite the experience... Ok. I absolutely will go along with this. This really is a bdsm FANTASY. You've been assaulted? Let's work it into the unnegotiated roleplay as a trauma cleanser. OK! SURE! LOL

last edited at Nov 17, 2024 11:50AM

I’ve been holding my tongue since I read the Spanish version of chapter 11 part way through the last discussion, but now I can talk about it. Whether or not readers approve of the chapter, this is very revealing in terms of Misa’s motivations.

HitsujiMary was really onto what was happening.

“...I don't know about you guys, but I think Misa's just resolving the inherent emotional conflict of the situation (both from Io from having been assaulted and from Misa's jealousy) by giving Io an actually good, consentual sexual experience.

Sure, it's messy. Sure, she didn't ask how Io was. But it fits both of these characters perfectly. I know it can hurt if you've been in a similar situation, but the point of fiction like this is to portray a particular fantasy with a particular set of rules/logic and expectations- and in this case, this chapter fits perfectly with the expectations that have been set.

It's toxic yuri after all.”

Except not exactly consensual, lol. But it makes sense.

• Misa feels jealous and is possibly afraid Io might have enjoyed it on some level (like Gabinomicon speculated)

• Misa worries Io might be seeking Misa out due to how bad Io’s situation is. The fear is that Io could be putting up with her due to a lack of better option.

• Misa wants to be able to help Io, but couldn’t do anything to protect her and will have to send her back into that dangerous situation. This would have been very disempowering for her.

• If the stuff with the manager was completely nonconsesual / not enjoyed, Misa is frustrated with Io for being passive and not stopping it, eg, letting the manager get in a second hickey like Suimasen Scans mentioned. If Misa can’t protect her, she wants Io to at least do whatever she can to protect herself.

• Misa is aware Io may feel guilty about what happened, especially if Misa criticizes Io for being passive.

Misa’s impulse here, since she couldn’t undo what happened, was to teach Io to stick up for herself, to cover what happened to Io with an even more memorable experience, and then let Io know all was forgiven, thereby cleansing Io in a way. Then she gets carried away in the act, as she tends to with Io.

That’s not acceptable from the perspective of real world morality. I think it does make for an engaging story with consistent characterization.

Honestly I was just confused because Misa had seemed more perceptive than to think Io was doing things with Hase on purpose

I think that too. I also assumed Misa knows that Io just got assaulted. As an added layer, in the past, Misa seemed annoyed at her newfound relationship with Io and possibly is trying to fight an internal battle against catching feelings (platonic, romantic, or otherwise) for a "client." Maybe she wants to offer humane touch, but her "role" of sadist and general annoyance at running around town aimlessly compound to a lack of gentleness. Misa isn't perfect, but I was hoping she would at least give Io some comfort and rest before jumping into sexual stuff or punishment. Especially seeing someone cry and still stomping their head is pretty intense,but as others have pointed out, that's par for the course in this drama and mangaka. I'm curious to see how the two reflect on this situation afterwards, if Io feels more fucked up, or is Misa has any regrets or aftercare.

I'm liking where they took this. Misa is losing the battle in fighting her feelings for Io. She questions why she is a sadist but I think it comes more from a place of wanting to save Io and provide for her, rather than punish her. But Misa is using the only emotional tools she knows how, around bossiness and sex. She wants to avoid trouble but it is far too late miss #1

I like the neck kiss at the end, it shows how soft actually Misa is for Io

Sadism is Misa's hammer and every problem a nail

I'm disappointed people are only discussing this when they dislike it. Please tell me I'm not the only one this focused on the series.

Anyway, something I realized is that Misa probably did think they had a type of agreement of exclusivity.

The latest chapter quotes Io asking Misa to order her around, showing Misa remembers that and thinks it's a big deal.

But, going back to chapter 7 when Misa finds out about the manger going in Io's room, Misa gently criticizes the manager the manager. She then asks Io, "Doesn't that bother you at all?"

Io says: "I think she was just looking out for me. I've been with Hase-san since I was a teenager. Because it's her job to manage me, that's why I trust her. Until now I thought nothing of it, but I hated it today."

Misa says: "You have to take that feeling to heart."

This is Misa trying to teach Io about how to have boundaries, which clearly Io has been raised to not understand well. Then Misa takes Io to the spa to relax, but later, during the sex scene, Misa is thinking:

"I'll make you forget about that crazy manager of yours."

Then says to Io: "Do you understand? You're mine."

At which point Io agrees and Misa thinks that it's like training a dog.

That means Misa was already trying to stake ownership over the manager at this point, with the "training" appearing to at least partially be to priotize Misa over Hase. When Io agreed, Misa felt like they had an agreement that Misa was the only one that Io would be completely obedient with. All or much of that likely happened subconsciously, as Misa hadn't come to terms with her sadism yet nor had she seemed to recognize her possessiveness.

It nonetheless may have meant the later assault did feel like cheating or otherwise a breach of their agreement that Io belonged to Misa, especially since Misa had told Io to be more aware of when Io didn't like what manager/Hase was doing. She wanted Io to have already been primed to resist Hase to the maximum of Io's capacity, without hesitating or shutting down at all.

last edited at Nov 26, 2024 10:16AM

I appreciate your analysis.

Thanks - I'm genuinely glad to hear it.

I largely appreciate that this forum lacks a like feature or other social media features, as that encourages people form and share different opinions more independently. However sometimes I feel like I'm shouting into the void here, especially when discussion dies down.

last edited at Nov 27, 2024 3:51PM

The discussions here generally strike me as pretty good and engaged, rather than just a bunch of haters or a ghost town. People actually talking about themes and characterization rather than moralizing, which is a rare pleasure in a comment section these days

Personally I respect moralizing as long as people aren't shaming or looking down on people who disagree with them, though unfortunately those are common many places. Still, you have got to be more of a masochist than Io to be doing that while reading this series. I'm not sure how many of that camp we have left reading, but I would expect most to have not survived this arc.

I'm not sure how many of that camp we have left reading, but I would expect most to have not survived this arc.

I believe you underestimate the number of people who keep reading a series just so they can go to the forums after every new chapter to inform everyone how much they hated it. :-)

I'm not sure how many of that camp we have left reading, but I would expect most to have not survived this arc.

I believe you underestimate the number of people who keep reading a series just so they can go to the forums after every new chapter to inform everyone how much they hated it. :-)

Sometimes a series goes so far that the hate readers are forced to give up even just responding without reading because the content is so bothersome to them. This manga for example has a lot fewer haters than the "My Girlfriend's Not Here Today," probably because the content is much more confrontational and explicit, even though the content here is normally the kind of stuff they flock to to hate.
You could probably relate this to the "dead dove" concept. This manga is a bag with a dead dove that eagerly wants you to know that's what it contains, compared to manga that tries to hide their dead dove by slowly ramping up to it and using fragrances and trying to present the dead dove with taste and shame.

last edited at Nov 29, 2024 8:32AM

Sometimes a series goes so far that the hate readers are forced to give up even just responding without reading because the content is so bothersome to them. This manga for example has a lot fewer haters than the "My Girlfriend's Not Here Today," probably because the content is much more confrontational and explicit, even though the content here is normally the kind of stuff they flock to to hate.

You could probably relate this to the "dead dove" concept. This manga is a bag with a dead dove that eagerly wants you to know that's what it contains, compared to manga that tries to hide their dead dove by slowly ramping up to it and using fragrances and trying to present the dead dove with taste and shame.

Now I know another series too look at.

But yeah, this arc we got possible grooming, sexual assault of the main romantic lead, MC blaming the romantic lead for being assaulted, retributive public humiliation of the romantic lead, and then really intense BDSM esque explicit sex where the romantic lead is crying and compares the MC to her assaulter. The likely result is the MC facing no negative consequences for any of this (other than the ire of Hase/Io's mom) and instead being rewarded by deepening her relationship with the lead.

It's probably going to get weirder from here. We have plot points like the MC considering stuff like keeping Io at her apartment. Would the romantic lead be financially responsible on the MC at that point? There's the weird relationship between Hase and Io's mom where the mom was threatening to get rid of Hase, apparently just to mess with Hase. The mom said it was fine as long as Hase brough Io back, but realistically Io would have come back on her own eventually. Despite this Hase actively panicked. There's the possible implication that the Hase was recreating with Io what the mom did to her. That's a major theme in another Flowerchild manga, A Detatched Relationship. Etc.

Early on, some people were thinking this would be subverted. They somehow thought we'd get a story primarily about both Misa and Io healing, plus exploration of healthy BDSM communication. At this point, it should instead be clear that the dynamics will be getting worse for much or most of the story. If what's happened so far is upsetting, hate reading would be more like touching a hot stove with a "hot stove" indicator light on than than the entertaining love-to-hate relationship many people have with more mainstream and popular works.

last edited at Nov 29, 2024 10:07AM

I think this story still has plenty of space to end up as a validating portrayal of a character like Io, where her sexuality and tastes are positive aspects of her life and not just trauma scars on her psyche, which would otherwise be vanilla and/or hetero. Even this most recent arc, even with how intense it was, still has deliberate contrast being drawn between how Io is treated by her abuser vs how she's treated by her lover, and what her responses to sex are in those same cases. What went down between Io and Misa was fucked up, obviously flawed, and yet they still ended the night positively because Misa knows how she was acting was fucked and explicitly says it to Io and they understand each other a bit better for it. And the chapter ends with Io wanting to choose Misa but being forced/coersed to go back with Hasa: her feelings about her experiences with the two of them the day before are pretty clearly divided for her, rather than overlapping. They might look superficially similar on the surface level but the mindset, the motive, the nuance, they're all night and day different. Even with Misa at her worst she was still thinking of Io, both in not violating her in a unrecoverable way with finding a blind spot on the balcony for their pubic exposure play, and generally focusing on giving to Io rather than taking from her.
Also with Misa's multiple scenes of her attempting to deny her S nature internally, her arc almost certainly involves becoming a more open and deliberate dom for Io.

last edited at Nov 29, 2024 2:28PM

Dead Dove, Do Not Eat is one of the funniest AO3 tags.

They do clearly both care for each other a lot, so I am also expecting a relatively happy ending. In fact, I wouldn't be this invested in the story if they didn't care for each other. But, much like with a fever, I think it's going to get much worse before it gets better.

Misa also crossed serious lines here (and tbh in every arc) in my view. The blind spot was not 100% foolproof, given they were outside on a balcony, there was the whole situation in the alley where anyone could wander in, there's the taxi driver and whoever else observing a blindfolded Io being ferried about, etc. This would be risky with someone who isn't a literal celebrity with a paparazzi. Even in previous arc in the pickup bar, Io told Misa that she wasn't comfortable with doing sexual acts in front of other people, and Misa has just been ignoring that because Io is still able to get off. If Misa keeps doing this kind of thing, eventually they're going to get unlucky with an observer identifying Io.

Then there is the whole situation with the mom saying she would make it so Io can never rebel again. I could see them going after Misa to manipulate Io. Even if Misa felt like she could handle the situation, Io might not agree and feel worse than if they went after Io herself. Communication could therefore be hampered in the future by Io literally being threatened not to communicate.

There's so many ways for the situation to get worse and, at least in real life, caring for each other often isn't enough to avoid harming each other.

last edited at Nov 29, 2024 4:18PM