This is all an over-the-top joke, but oof, that stuff hits hard.
It might be on a much smaller scale in the real world, but this sort of thing does happen - and even more in video game worlds.

it's still miles and miles better than shit like Rising of the Shield Hero with it's false rape accusation BS, "slave child turned slave bride" with the author bending themselves over to keep justify keeping the character a slave and whatnot

"i occult the goods points and only point the bad so i can call it bad" iswear that everytime i heard someone talking about Shield Hero, they seem to have only read the first couple of chapters and drop it.

FYI, I've read a lot of Shield Hero, and will probably be continuing (he's already established his own town for quite some time and just had a bit of a dragon adventure), and Shield Hero really is a poorly told story with terribly-executed world-building.
That doesn't make it impossible to read, but it's actually not very good. Really great premise, and some story elements that really are amazing, but it's actually pretty bad.

"We only have one size." I laughed. Then, I was reminded of my attempts to buy cosplay pieces. ;_;

Totally unrealistic and made up sexism, all the women in this video are joking https://youtu.be/T-HWoLVJdoY

It's kinda funny (and somewhat irritating) to see people whining about this being "nonsense" or "written like a caricature of a negative stereotype of a feminist tract" when frankly, like it's already been mentioned and explained, it's still miles and miles better than shit like Rising of the Shield Hero with it's false rape accusation BS, "slave child turned slave bride" with the author bending themselves over to keep justify keeping the character a slave and whatnot. Or Goblin Slayer with it's "evil race of rapist" (that like Terraformars, may cause some iffy real life parallels).

And let's not mention Redo of Healer or similar shit like ntr (since I saw someone mention it), because oh boy that's a whole mall sized can of worms.

Again, like it's been pointed out, the "caricature" of the sexist man isn't even that unrealistic like the "but women wouldn't wear bikini armour even in that situation" complain, when again, it's been pointed out that women can be forced to wear high heels even when it's dangerous. There nothing quite as hilarious and infuriating (not to mention speak volumes about how that shit is deeply normalised) than seeing a barely exaggerated depiction of sexism decried by people as "unrealistic", even more when the most "absurd" elements, like the bikini armour, still has real life parallel.

This kind of story really just highlight how works like RotSH and co are insanely bad, immature and childish and most importantly: conventional and dull as fuck (while thinking they're the opposite) in the worst way possible ultimately.

And show how much more interesting they could be if they had any understanding of actual injustice/systemic discrimination.

Finally some brain cells, thank you

Hu-hum...
Even though I liked the chapter, I'm not quite sure how to comment.
On the one hand, I feel like a lot of the things are (mostly implicit) feminist critique, which is dope.
But on the other hand, this chapter got some fanservice-y stuff that I have mixed feelings about.

Hu-hum...
Even though I liked the chapter, I'm not quite sure how to comment.
On the one hand, I feel like a lot of the things are (mostly implicit) feminist critique, which is dope.
But on the other hand, this chapter got some fanservice-y stuff that I have mixed feelings about.

While yes it can be seen as general fanservicey stuff but here it's not that. It has a purpose and that is to show how ridiculous women's armour in these games are.
When it comes to fanservice I am actually one of the most sensitive person and most of the time it makes me drop the series. But here it was necessary to show.

It's kinda funny (and somewhat irritating) to see people whining about this being "nonsense" or "written like a caricature of a negative stereotype of a feminist tract" when frankly, like it's already been mentioned and explained, it's still miles and miles better than shit like Rising of the Shield Hero with it's false rape accusation BS, "slave child turned slave bride" with the author bending themselves over to keep justify keeping the character a slave and whatnot. Or Goblin Slayer with it's "evil race of rapist" (that like Terraformars, may cause some iffy real life parallels).

And let's not mention Redo of Healer or similar shit like ntr (since I saw someone mention it), because oh boy that's a whole mall sized can of worms.

Again, like it's been pointed out, the "caricature" of the sexist man isn't even that unrealistic like the "but women wouldn't wear bikini armour even in that situation" complain, when again, it's been pointed out that women can be forced to wear high heels even when it's dangerous. There nothing quite as hilarious and infuriating (not to mention speak volumes about how that shit is deeply normalised) than seeing a barely exaggerated depiction of sexism decried by people as "unrealistic", even more when the most "absurd" elements, like the bikini armour, still has real life parallel.

This kind of story really just highlight how works like RotSH and co are insanely bad, immature and childish and most importantly: conventional and dull as fuck (while thinking they're the opposite) in the worst way possible ultimately.

And show how much more interesting they could be if they had any understanding of actual injustice/systemic discrimination.

Based, this is the correct take. But I would like to see it tackled in a not so on the nose way, I hope the later chapters get better in that aspect

Hu-hum...
Even though I liked the chapter, I'm not quite sure how to comment.
On the one hand, I feel like a lot of the things are (mostly implicit) feminist critique, which is dope.
But on the other hand, this chapter got some fanservice-y stuff that I have mixed feelings about.

While yes it can be seen as general fanservicey stuff but here it's not that. It has a purpose and that is to show how ridiculous women's armour in these games are.
When it comes to fanservice I am actually one of the most sensitive person and most of the time it makes me drop the series. But here it was necessary to show.

Yeah, I kinda thought that was the case, but still.

Hu-hum...
Even though I liked the chapter, I'm not quite sure how to comment.
On the one hand, I feel like a lot of the things are (mostly implicit) feminist critique, which is dope.
But on the other hand, this chapter got some fanservice-y stuff that I have mixed feelings about.

While yes it can be seen as general fanservicey stuff but here it's not that. It has a purpose and that is to show how ridiculous women's armour in these games are.
When it comes to fanservice I am actually one of the most sensitive person and most of the time it makes me drop the series. But here it was necessary to show.

Yeah, I kinda thought that was the case, but still.

So wait...you're unhappy that they're showing something in order to critique it? Also part of the world building is critiquing that it has become normalized and that the MC thinks nothing of the armor, instead she simply thinks "it's female armor", without knowing and realizing things could be better. The narrative should make you happy if you dislike fanservice, and I fail to understand how they could critique this type of female armor and the extreme normalization of it in this world without showing it.

IF it's done right I don't personally I don't have a problem with fanservice in certain media, some people enjoy wearing clothing and gear that shows off more skin, both men and women. The classic male barbarian loincloth that shows off his muscles and chest, muscular legs and so fourth. I think the armor is often not practical, but if a person wants to wear an outfit that shows off their body it should be their choice.

I absolutely loathe the idea that everything to do with sexuality is some kind of evil thing, and that people who choose to wear more exposing outfits are being sexist against themselves. So my problem with this series is that it so far lacks any kind of nuance. It should be a normalized thing for both men and women to wear whatever the hell they want and whatever works for them. A man wants to run around in a rainbow banana hammock? More power to him. A woman wants to run around in full plate armor? More power to her.

Edit: Also I'm very aware that cartoonish sexism exists in real life, but the extreme and radical sexism that this entire world is built on feels beyond cartoonish. I would absolutely love more series that critique sexism, but I want them to have some kind of nuance as well.

last edited at Jun 30, 2021 3:45PM

I don't know many bikini armor games, but there is this terrible anime called Bikini Warriors if you like to suffer.

If memory serves... Isnt that a series of hentai shorts?

last edited at Jun 30, 2021 5:53PM

ohh fck off y'all go eat grass or something, just enjoy the manga geez

Why don't you take your own advice on that first bit there if you can't tske criticism bud.

Hu-hum...
Even though I liked the chapter, I'm not quite sure how to comment.
On the one hand, I feel like a lot of the things are (mostly implicit) feminist critique, which is dope.
But on the other hand, this chapter got some fanservice-y stuff that I have mixed feelings about.

While yes it can be seen as general fanservicey stuff but here it's not that. It has a purpose and that is to show how ridiculous women's armour in these games are.
When it comes to fanservice I am actually one of the most sensitive person and most of the time it makes me drop the series. But here it was necessary to show.

Yeah, I kinda thought that was the case, but still.

So wait...you're unhappy that they're showing something in order to critique it? Also part of the world building is critiquing that it has become normalized and that the MC thinks nothing of the armor, instead she simply thinks "it's female armor", without knowing and realizing things could be better. The narrative should make you happy if you dislike fanservice, and I fail to understand how they could critique this type of female armor and the extreme normalization of it in this world without showing it.

IF it's done right I don't personally I don't have a problem with fanservice in certain media, some people enjoy wearing clothing and gear that shows off more skin, both men and women. The classic male barbarian loincloth that shows off his muscles and chest, muscular legs and so fourth. I think the armor is often not practical, but if a person wants to wear an outfit that shows off their body it should be their choice.

I absolutely loathe the idea that everything to do with sexuality is some kind of evil thing, and that people who choose to wear more exposing outfits are being sexist against themselves. So my problem with this series is that it so far lacks any kind of nuance. It should be a normalized thing for both men and women to wear whatever the hell they want and whatever works for them. A man wants to run around in a rainbow banana hammock? More power to him. A woman wants to run around in full plate armor? More power to her.

Edit: Also I'm very aware that cartoonish sexism exists in real life, but the extreme and radical sexism that this entire world is built on feels beyond cartoonish. I would absolutely love more series that critique sexism, but I want them to have some kind of nuance as well.

I'm kinda too tired to read this rn, so I'm gonna have the google translate voice read it out for me while I read along first thing in the morning and then reply properly, but from what little I read from the first paragraph of this comment, it seems like my laziness and poor choice of words resulted in a misunderstanding.

last edited at Jun 30, 2021 6:40PM

I don't know many bikini armor games, but there is this terrible anime called Bikini Warriors if you like to suffer.

If memory serves... Isnt that a series of hentai shorts?

Pretty much, I think it was more on the ecchi side. Still brainless and bad.

@Shoggoth

Also there is nothing bad about Goblin Slayer. Goblins are monsters, not humans. In some settings you have female demons killing men or harpies ripping males appart. If anyone thinks getting abused, eaten or worse is some kind of lewd fanservice, they might have problems. Just think of the Xenomorph from Alien. They aren't a statement about some nation or meant as wank material, they are simply there to spook you.

I'm kinda too tired to read this rn, so I'm gonna have the google translate voice read it out for me while I read along first thing in the morning and then reply properly, but from what little I read from the first paragraph of this comment, it seems like my laziness and poor choice of words resulted in a misunderstanding.

Edit: If you still respond I hope you read this before doing so, maybe with this response I can help clear up some of my intent and thoughts before you formulate a response.

Misunderstandings happen, it's no big deal. A lot of what I was saying were just some additional thoughts about the manga and subjects in it, and not directly pointed at you notably. Also some thoughts on views I hear mostly on social media like Twitter. The first paraph was referring to what you were saying, and the rest from "IF" onwards were additional thoughts, sorry if I came off the wrong way myself.

Ultimately my views boil down to, men and women should be able to choose whatever armor/gear/clothing they want. Regardless of if it's a lot of skin showing, no skin showing, anything in between and so fourth. As long they're comfortable in their body and with what they're wearing. I think this manga so far lacks some nuance there is all, nothing super serious.

last edited at Jun 30, 2021 8:28PM

There are a bunch of dialects that use "me and [ ]" interchangeably with "[ ] and I" and thus "me and [ ]" is correct. There is no "proper" English, only a bunch of different dialects and all of them are equally correct.
Anyway, this isn't the place to argue prescriptive vs descriptive grammar so I'll just drop it

There are definitely people who say it, but they're wrong. It's not a dialect thing. No one would ever say "Me formed the ultimate tag team." "Me and [ ]" should never be used for the title of a professional work, whether coming from the actual author or from a group of fan translators.

This is the place to argue it because it's the chosen title of this manga.

I don't know many bikini armor games, but there is this terrible anime called Bikini Warriors if you like to suffer.

If memory serves... Isnt that a series of hentai shorts?

Pretty much, I think it was more on the ecchi side. Still brainless and bad.

@Shoggoth

Also there is nothing bad about Goblin Slayer. Goblins are monsters, not humans. In some settings you have female demons killing men or harpies ripping males appart. If anyone thinks getting abused, eaten or worse is some kind of lewd fanservice, they might have problems. Just think of the Xenomorph from Alien. They aren't a statement about some nation or meant as wank material, they are simply there to spook you.

You're... You're aware that the visual design of the Xenomorphs and their whole ecosystem is meant to represent the physical manifestation of threats of sexual violence right? I mean I expected missing the point in the thread but I didn't think it would be this bad

There are definitely people who say it, but they're wrong. It's not a dialect thing. No one would ever say "Me formed the ultimate tag team." "Me and [ ]" should never be used for the title of a professional work, whether coming from the actual author or from a group of fan translators.

This is the place to argue it because it's the chosen title of this manga.

Well, I'll try to keep this brief since this comment has nothing to do with the manga itself. If you want to reply please do it on Dynasty Café

So, what you're arguing for is prescriptivism, establishing rules regarding the "correct" use of a language, but that's not how language actually works. Prescriptive language tends to take one dialect and uses it as a basis for how the language ought to be, because of this it's usually older than modern dialects and tends to ignore developments that happen in the spoken language. Hence why prescriptivist grammar is always playing catch up with native speakers.

What I'm arguing for is descriptivism. That is, observing and describing how language works in the real world.
While "me" is an object pronoun and "I" is the subject pronoun, "me and [ ]" is used as a subject pronoun by a bunch of native speakers which means that this "mistake" has caught on and thus become a valid form of speech. And because descriptivism point out how language actually works, it leads to the fact that there is no such thing as "proper English" as all forms of English are just as proper

There is, however, a dialect called "standard English" (actually there's a bunch but whatever). This is the prescribed form of the language that is usually used in writing and commonly in professional speech as well. This is what you meant when you say "proper" and I merely pointed out that so called "proper English" is just another dialect and just as correct as Cockney, Yorkshire, AAVE, Babu, Kenyan, or any other form that any given native speaker might speak.

DY4Y—

Previously, you argued some more, and then sought the last word by saying that there should be no more arguing because this wasn't the place for it. Now you return to the argument, after again saying that this isn't the place for it. Spare us, would you?

The word “dialect” isn't magical. You can no more excuse poor word skills on the part of a thousand people by noting that they have a dialect than you can excuse poor word skills on the part of one person by treating her usage as an idiosyncratic dialect. I explained what made proper English in my earlier comment. There are indeed some dialects that are distinct yet equally proper, but none of them use “me” as a nominative, because that robs the case form of its utility.

last edited at Jun 30, 2021 9:58PM

So..... y'all done complaining?

So..... y'all done complaining?

Posts like this only serve to waste even more space. No one is going to stop because of whatever your feelings on it are.

I'm done conversing with DY4Y, who has shown their true colors of being pointlessly pedantic, but "Me And A Legendary Witch" is still wrong.

"C'mon, Uraraka thigh suit has a reason, I mean, if it were not thigh, how could she use her powers? Same goes for Asui, Yaoyorozu, Ashido, Midnight, Mt. Lady, and pretty much every female character in MHA. Sexualized? Imposible, the ass and tits foreground it's necessary for, you know, world building"

Man, I hope Mineta dies soon or I won't be able to watch a single chapter more of MHA.

Posts like this only serve to waste even more space. No one is going to stop because of whatever your feelings on it are.

Bitch i know, we on a discussion forum after all, i usually don't mind internet hoes being stupid and getting mad for no reason but y'all just annoying.

"C'mon, Uraraka thigh suit has a reason, I mean, if it were not thigh, how could she use her powers? Same goes for Asui, Yaoyorozu, Ashido, Midnight, Mt. Lady, and pretty much every female character in MHA. Sexualized? Imposible, the ass and tits foreground it's necessary for, you know, world building"

Man, I hope Mineta dies soon or I won't be able to watch a single chapter more of MHA.

Comparing a single minor character in the background of a manga to a manga's entire cartoonishly over-the-top premise.

Sure that's valid.

Just saying, if you're gonna make a point, hammering your audience in the face with a sledge tends not to go over very well even at the best of times.

OK, not exactly first thing in the morning, but, meh, close enough.

So wait...you're unhappy that they're showing something in order to critique it? Also part of the world building is critiquing that it has become normalized and that the MC thinks nothing of the armor, instead she simply thinks "it's female armor", without knowing and realizing things could be better. The narrative should make you happy if you dislike fanservice, and I fail to understand how they could critique this type of female armor and the extreme normalization of it in this world without showing it.

IF it's done right I don't personally I don't have a problem with fanservice in certain media, some people enjoy wearing clothing and gear that shows off more skin, both men and women. The classic male barbarian loincloth that shows off his muscles and chest, muscular legs and so fourth. I think the armor is often not practical, but if a person wants to wear an outfit that shows off their body it should be their choice.

I absolutely loathe the idea that everything to do with sexuality is some kind of evil thing, and that people who choose to wear more exposing outfits are being sexist against themselves. So my problem with this series is that it so far lacks any kind of nuance. It should be a normalized thing for both men and women to wear whatever the hell they want and whatever works for them. A man wants to run around in a rainbow banana hammock? More power to him. A woman wants to run around in full plate armor? More power to her.

Edit: Also I'm very aware that cartoonish sexism exists in real life, but the extreme and radical sexism that this entire world is built on feels beyond cartoonish. I would absolutely love more series that critique sexism, but I want them to have some kind of nuance as well.

Edit: If you still respond I hope you read this before doing so, maybe with this response I can help clear up some of my intent and thoughts before you formulate a response.

Misunderstandings happen, it's no big deal. A lot of what I was saying were just some additional thoughts about the manga and subjects in it, and not directly pointed at you notably. Also some thoughts on views I hear mostly on social media like Twitter. The first paraph was referring to what you were saying, and the rest from "IF" onwards were additional thoughts, sorry if I came off the wrong way myself.

Ultimately my views boil down to, men and women should be able to choose whatever armor/gear/clothing they want. Regardless of if it's a lot of skin showing, no skin showing, anything in between and so fourth. As long they're comfortable in their body and with what they're wearing. I think this manga so far lacks some nuance there is all, nothing super serious.

So, when I last night said "from what little I read from the first paragraph" I really meant "just the first and maybe part of the second sentence" (in my defense, it was well past midnight, and I had woken up early in the morning that day for uni), and as a result, I kinda expected to find myself in a position to defend myself of possibly my wording making me look kinda unsavory in a way that might lump me in the same or at least similar category as the likes the "gamers tm" as I like to refer to them.

Luckily I was wrong, but I still gotta apologize for such assumptions.

So, in essence, my position of fanservice in general is like mixed at best, as it kinda makes me feel like a perv when I don't wanna feel like one. Even though I recognize that, just like you said the fanservice in this chapter does have a purpose here - to be subject to or even a vehicle of critique - it still kinda carries that previously mentioned bit.

As for people being able to wear whatever they want... I honestly feel the same in general - people can and should wear whatever they feel comfortable wearing in their everyday lives (home, work, outside, etc.). But when it comes to like armour and other combat-situation-stuff, it'd probably be more expected that soldiers and/or adventurers of the same "class" would generally have similar-ish armour with each-other. What I imagine to be a sabre (which I don't know much about fantasy world classes, so I'm kinda going off my own assumptions themselves based on some very limited knowledge gained from hanging out on Discord and watching a single r/DnDMemes video on YouTube) would probably be similar to like heavy or medium infantry, so you'd ideally have some kind of armour covering most of your body (largely metal armour, with some so-called soft armour for other areas for heavy, and a more balanced mix of chainmail and soft armour for medium), while light infantry can be more loose with how they'd dress themselves for combat.

As for the nuance thing, I don't really think I have anything to add.

Honestly, my concern with the armour and gear may be less about the looks of the person wearing those and more about the protection of that person.

In conlusion, I think the real misunderstanding on my part at least was that I expected an argument and instead it seems like we're saying similar-ish stuff.