Forum › The Girl Through the Viewfinder discussion

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

She's probably moving away. What a novel plot device...

I'll take her movin away over her dying

Bubblegum Uploader
Slime
Sticky Scans
joined Sep 21, 2020

Hey snowman, I like your projects a lot :D Can I join your group too? Uhh I wasn't sure how to contact you because I don't have twitter lol

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

new tropes have definitely been codified.

Honestly I don't think this is true at all. Bloom Into You is a well written and deep series but it doesn't do anything thematically that other series haven't done in the past. What it does is tie a lot of those preexisting themes together and does them well in the span of a single narrative. This is not a bad thing, stories do not need to be unique to be good and/or enjoyable. Indeed, they don't even need to be well executed either.

i'm not talking about themes really. i agree, bloom into you doesn't like, revolutionize storytelling with its themes or anything. i think at its core the themes are pretty clear and straightforward, and i think the way they're executed on is what makes the story so good, is what gives it such complexity and depth. it's those tropes that i'm talking about, the sayaka character, a watchful best-friend who's one leg of the love triangle and whose love is doomed to go unrequited. the touko and yuu characters, they have an uncertain dynamic for most of the story--and sure that's common enough, this is literally a staple of romance stories. but they're specific in that it's a senpai/kohai relationship, there's love at first sight (basically), one of them doesn't really understand love, and the other has trauma and doesn't want her love to be reciprocated. those last two are the barrier to their relationship, that's where their character arcs are.

I feel like all these tropes were already very popular in older yuri stories, waaay before Bloom Into You. The tropes you listed can all easily be found in say, Strawberry Panic lol. What Bloom Into You did well was give a more realistic and deep portrayal to these tropes. Like you said, it's how Bloom into You was executed that made it good, but yeah, hard disagree on these being tropes created by/made popular by Bloom Into You.

I don't really feel like this series is similar to Bloom Into You at all. It has a lot of common tropes as well (I mean what school girl yuri series doesnt?), but aside from the unrequited best friend role (which a lot of series have), this has a completely different theme, story and character relationship. I actually feel like Honami doesn't resemble Sayaka at all aside from the "seemingly unrequited love" part. I think people just think of Sayaka first because Bloom Into You is a lot of this generations' first introduction to a proper "school girl yuri" series.

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

King_snowman_2
joined Mar 20, 2021

Hey snowman, I like your projects a lot :D Can I join your group too? Uhh I wasn't sure how to contact you because I don't have twitter lol

Thanks for your interest in joining, Bubblegum! (´▽`)

Unfortunately I think all the rolls that need filling are all taken care of between just Kiska and I.
The only thing really slowing us down is the time and energy I can spend on translating. But I started doing this so I could practice translating so dividing up or sharing that work would make it meaningless to have started doing these projects... o(〒﹏〒)o

Thank you though for your willingness to assist us!!! ♡ ~('▽^人)

Bubblegum Uploader
Slime
Sticky Scans
joined Sep 21, 2020

cool it's all good :D

Money_marie%202
joined Jan 18, 2017

I smell ghey

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

Hey, Strawberry Panic was a hoot, with the occasional effective scene.

It was like the Commodore 64 of yuri manga (and the anime was far better than the manga).

And yeah, I don't think there's a whole lot of specifically Bloom Into You imitation going on--it's just the schoolgirl-yuri-trope Mixmaster continuing to function as designed.

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 10:34AM

MeiLangSakalam
271731483_478678657204397_1801763266118199384_n
joined Mar 26, 2021

i need medic im bleeding cuz this is too good for my health

Sayaka_ava
joined Nov 23, 2014

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

Hey, Strawberry Panic was a hoot, with the occasional effective scene.

It was like the Commodore 64 of yuri manga (and the anime was far better than the manga).

This sounds very insulting towards the C64.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

Hey, Strawberry Panic was a hoot, with the occasional effective scene.

It was like the Commodore 64 of yuri manga (and the anime was far better than the manga).

This sounds very insulting towards the C64.

Mister, we could use a lead like Shizuma Hanazono again . . .

Kawaii-anime-25355452-560-420
joined Feb 24, 2015

Thank you KingSnowman8 and Kiska for your hard work! PS Kiska came from Russia ? xD

last edited at Mar 28, 2021 2:38PM

Sayaka_ava
joined Nov 23, 2014

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

Hey, Strawberry Panic was a hoot, with the occasional effective scene.

It was like the Commodore 64 of yuri manga (and the anime was far better than the manga).

This sounds very insulting towards the C64.

Mister, we could use a lead like Shizuma Hanazono again . . .

If you say so, if there were positive aspects to that show I certainly do not remember them anymore. I suppose it ends with a big confession scene if that is your thing.

Soralaylaff
joined Oct 16, 2013

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

Hey, Strawberry Panic was a hoot, with the occasional effective scene.

It was like the Commodore 64 of yuri manga (and the anime was far better than the manga).

This sounds very insulting towards the C64.

Mister, we could use a lead like Shizuma Hanazono again . . .

If you say so, if there were positive aspects to that show I certainly do not remember them anymore. I suppose it ends with a big confession scene if that is your thing.

Hahahaha thinking back on it, Strawberry Panic was a hoot and the fandom back then was really fun with a bunch of fan material and memes, but it was definitely a series not to be taken seriously. I think the only true positive aspect of the show back then was it was one of the few blatantly gay animes airing at the time. Other than that, I'm glad yuri has overall evolved to be way better than what it was before xD

NuclearStudent
joined Dec 13, 2018

She's probably moving away. What a novel plot device...

come to brazil

joined Mar 15, 2013

Honestly if you like yagakimi so much why you don’t go to topic of yagakimi? It so annoying to see comments not relevant about story. I know maybe you like that story but stop compare to other works. Thank you

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Honestly if you like yagakimi so much why you don’t go to topic of yagakimi? It so annoying to see comments not relevant about story. I know maybe you like that story but stop compare to other works. Thank you

It's perfectly reasonable for someone to see similarities in a character, or character type, in one series to a character in another one.

In this case, I don't think it's particularly informative to see Homani as a version of Sayaka in Yagakimi (for one thing, Sayaka is not at all Touko's "childhood friend"--they first met as first-years in high school), but the basic concept of making character parallels is hardly one that merits someone coming in to a discussion and ordering people not to do it. Thank you.

Img_0186
joined Jul 18, 2020

I feel like all these tropes were already very popular in older yuri stories, waaay before Bloom Into You. The tropes you listed can all easily be found in say, Strawberry Panic lol. What Bloom Into You did well was give a more realistic and deep portrayal to these tropes. Like you said, it's how Bloom into You was executed that made it good, but yeah, hard disagree on these being tropes created by/made popular by Bloom Into You.

I don't really feel like this series is similar to Bloom Into You at all. It has a lot of common tropes as well (I mean what school girl yuri series doesnt?), but aside from the unrequited best friend role (which a lot of series have), this has a completely different theme, story and character relationship. I actually feel like Honami doesn't resemble Sayaka at all aside from the "seemingly unrequited love" part. I think people just think of Sayaka first because Bloom Into You is a lot of this generations' first introduction to a proper "school girl yuri" series.

I actually think it's kinda funny how you can tell what generation people became yuri fans by the examples of series they first think of. Just like how the first series that came to my mind when thinking of those tropes was Strawberry Panic (unfortunately hahahahaha).

that's not what codified means. of course these individual tropes always existed because characters with these characteristics have always existed in this genre. a trope becomes codified when an influential work takes it and makes it popular. that's what I'm saying happened her. those individual tropes in combination are popular right now because yagakimi was influential. this is what i'm talking about: https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Trope_Codifier series like evangelion and sailor moon, that type of thing. they weren't the first of their genre and yet they still codified tropes that are used to this day. i kind of doubt yagakimi will be quite as influential as those two because yuri is probably more niche than mecha and magical girl.

and you don't have to have all the individual characteristics of a trope character to be participating in their trope. like, if honami just literally had all of the same characteristics as sayaka that would be plagiarism lol. instead, i feel like the mangaka went "let's do yagakimi, but we'll focus on the play arc, and instead of a play it's a movie, and instead of meeting in high school sayaka and touko are childhood friends, and they're all in the same year now." that's basically what i see.

also, don't assume i'm a newb because my account is less than a year old and i'm focused on a story that came out recently lol. my first yuri anime was also strawberry panic and i watched it in like 2009 or something. i've been using this site for more than a decade now. the reason my account is so young is because i lost the password to my old account and i have no desire to retrieve it.

will you also deny that strawberry panic ripped everything from marimite? the difference between yagakimi and strawberry panic is that yagakimi isn't a soap opera and is actually good (seriously, i tried to rewatch it a while back and couldn't get through even half of it).

last edited at Mar 29, 2021 3:41PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

will you also deny that strawberry panic ripped everything from marimite? the difference between yagakimi and strawberry panic is that yagakimi isn't a soap opera and is actually good (seriously, i tried to rewatch it a while back and couldn't get through even half of it).

Strawberry Panic was pretty much a methodical parody of Marimite, not a ripoff of it.

I still don't see much evidence for the overall thesis you're putting forth. The play in Yagakimi had a very specific function in the plot and in the dynamic of the characters. The movie here just seems to be the occasion for getting this group of characters together (and I can think of a half dozen other manga that have had some kind of play/movie/performance as the instrument for allowing the various characters to interact).

The%20scientist%20edit
joined Mar 9, 2013

will you also deny that strawberry panic ripped everything from marimite? the difference between yagakimi and strawberry panic is that yagakimi isn't a soap opera and is actually good (seriously, i tried to rewatch it a while back and couldn't get through even half of it).

Strawberry Panic was pretty much a methodical parody of Marimite, not a ripoff of it.

I still don't see much evidence for the overall thesis you're putting forth. The play in Yagakimi had a very specific function in the plot and in the dynamic of the characters. The movie here just seems to be the occasion for getting this group of characters together (and I can think of a half dozen other manga that have had some kind of play/movie/performance as the instrument for allowing the various characters to interact).

Honestly? Hajime's desire to make a movie reminds me more of Kumiko's growing antipathy towards music at the start of Euphonium and her eventual realization that, yes, she does in fact still love music and the euphonium. Yagakimi's play was never about the play but about Touko realizing that yes she deserves a life outside of pretending to be her sister. That she can have her own dreams and desires.

Hajime isn't making a movie for someone else, she making a movie to make a movie. Because she enjoys film. And while she was finally pushed over the edge because of a pretty girl, her love of film is something that is truly hers and not something that is given to her.

Honestly you could make a better argument for similarities between this manga and Revue Starlight.

Img_0186
joined Jul 18, 2020

will you also deny that strawberry panic ripped everything from marimite? the difference between yagakimi and strawberry panic is that yagakimi isn't a soap opera and is actually good (seriously, i tried to rewatch it a while back and couldn't get through even half of it).

Strawberry Panic was pretty much a methodical parody of Marimite, not a ripoff of it.

I still don't see much evidence for the overall thesis you're putting forth. The play in Yagakimi had a very specific function in the plot and in the dynamic of the characters. The movie here just seems to be the occasion for getting this group of characters together (and I can think of a half dozen other manga that have had some kind of play/movie/performance as the instrument for allowing the various characters to interact).

was it a parody? parodies are supposed to have jokes in them, right? they're supposed to use a premise to make jokes and be funny. i don't remember the core of strawberry panic being comedy. like, it's not that the jokes weren't for me or something, it's that it they just weren't there. it took itself too seriously most of the time. and i can't say it was a satire either because there just wasn't a message. what was it trying to say about the relationships between girls at private religious high schools? what was it trying to subvert? i don't think it was trying to say anything other than "isn't this dramatic". the most you could say is that it was tonally inconsistent. i think it was played basically completely straight--marimite, but this time it's a soap opera and the relationships are perhaps more explicitly "real".

and yeah, the play did have a specific function in yagakimi that was tied to touko and her baggage and in this one the baggage is different, but i don't think that's inconsistent. again, if literally everything was the same about the play and the characters that would just be plagiarism/creative theft. my argument is that the characters and premise are reminiscent of yagakimi because of how many tropes are in common between them, but you could definitely say that it's reminiscent of other things as well or instead of. unless the mangaka publicly says "yeah, i was really inspired by this other story" we won't know what their intent was. this is just what i happen to be thinking when i read it.

Img_0186
joined Jul 18, 2020

Honestly? Hajime's desire to make a movie reminds me more of Kumiko's growing antipathy towards music at the start of Euphonium and her eventual realization that, yes, she does in fact still love music and the euphonium. Yagakimi's play was never about the play but about Touko realizing that yes she deserves a life outside of pretending to be her sister. That she can have her own dreams and desires.

Hajime isn't making a movie for someone else, she making a movie to make a movie. Because she enjoys film. And while she was finally pushed over the edge because of a pretty girl, her love of film is something that is truly hers and not something that is given to her.

Honestly you could make a better argument for similarities between this manga and Revue Starlight.

i never finished eupho so i wouldn't have thought to really compare them. the thing about it and review starlight is that those stories are centered around competitions, which makes me feel like they're more like each other than they are like this. i feel like the girl through the viewfinder is more about discovering how to go about creative expression rather than like, honing your craft to perfection. and i feel like hajime's emotional arc isn't going to be that similar to kumiko's. you said it yourself that kumiko starts out from a place of disliking music, whereas hajime starts out complacently static about making movies. she's always wanted to, but she hasn't met the thing that will push her over the edge into actualizing those desires until now. as a writer it's very relatable, and i feel like it's different from what kumiko goes through. there probably is a character in eupho who starts out complacent and gets pushed over into actualization, but i can't remember anyone's name.

and i'd say that yes, the play in yagakimi was about touko realizing she doesn't have to pretend to be her sister anymore and that she can have her own destiny outside of that role, that's definitely some of the baggage and character growth that's attached to it. but the play is also where touko realizes that she has a knack for acting and that she actually likes it. and she continues acting after that because she likes it. it was both an ending point and starting point for her. hajime can't relate to the ending point pretending-to-be-your-sister stuff, but she can definitely relate to the starting point stuff, so i feel like that's consistent with my argument. she doesn't have to be exactly like touko to be reminiscent of her.

i should probably rewatch revue starlight. the first time i saw it i had a hard time telling what was diegetic and what was theatrically symbolic and whether that mattered at all even. that show confused me a bit.

last edited at Mar 29, 2021 10:17PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

was it a parody? parodies are supposed to have jokes in them, right? they're supposed to use a premise to make jokes and be funny. i don't remember the core of strawberry panic being comedy. like, it's not that the jokes weren't for me or something, it's that it they just weren't there.

You have a very truncated notion of what parody can be—one writer taking the piss out of another while also doing itheir own thing works as well.

this is just what i happen to be thinking when i read it.

At least this I find convincing.

TifalovesAerith
7056534
joined May 7, 2017

She's probably moving away. What a novel plot device...

Honestly, my money is on terminal illness, whatever it is though, doesn't really matter to me, as long as it delivers well.

King_snowman_2
joined Mar 20, 2021

Thank you KingSnowman8 and Kiska for your hard work! PS Kiska came from Russia ? xD

I have finally solved this mystery myself!!
Apparently she took her name from a shortened version of "Kiskadee," which is a type of bird.

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