But what about the homework!?

Noel top is extra good omg.

@Kirin I thought I was clear, but you still appear to be talking about completely different game than I played.

"One of the greatest strengths of VNs as a medium, in my opinion, is to capture multiple perspectives and scenarios instead of adopting the absolute linearity of a paperback novel

My point was that Kindred Spirit is linear. Just like any book, comic, movie is. It shows you events from different angels and perspective, but said events do not differ in outcomes. So saying it should had have Yuna x Ano path is misunderstanding game, because it doesn't have any other "path". You can't play game once and have different experience than someone else playing the game. Every player will always see exactly the same story no matter what.

Which brings me to "Kindred Spirits actively uses this system, since we do get to inspect the same events from different perspectives in Calendar mode, so it's not like the writers were opposed to using the medium to lend the story depth."

They didn't. They didn't use medium at all. Not in the "only did the bare minimum" or "not as complex as other VN" or "could do more". They straight didn't take advantage of what VN medium has to offer.

"I think we have the same point, though? Kindred Spirits only did the bare minimum to explore multiple perspectives"

I do think they did pretty poor job using multiple perspectives, but seems like we're misunderstanding each other on more fundamental level.

"but in order to unlock some of the extra sections, you had to replay the game and pick different dialogue options."

We have different definition of "reply the game". In normal visual novel once you make the choice the game keeps on going. The events unfold based on choice you made. You make more choices, events split yet again. It continues until you finish the game and get either good or bad ending. Hopefully you unlocked the route you wanted, but it didn't necessary have to be the case. Only after you actually reached the end of the story you can then play again and experience entire story anew trying to pick different options and seeing how this changes story. Sometimes the changes are very little, but sometimes they can pretty much turn into different story altogether. This is completely missing from KS. Sure there are choices and you see slightly different dialogue, but they're not permanent. As I said before, you're not actually forced to keep on playing after making the choice until you reach the end of the game. You are in fact forced to go back to those choices the same month and reply them until you pick the one that unlock progression for given couple, because without doing so you are unable to progress with the main story. Something that never happens in any other VN. If you pick wrong choice, it locks you out from the path/event and in the worst case scenario leads you directly to bad end and you have to replay game from scratch (or from save but shhh). That's why I said for all intents and purpose KS has no choices, because game only give you illusion of choice and some flavor dialogue, but in the end you're forced to make the right choice immediately in order to progress the story further according to the way game wants the story to progress. Just like Kinetic Novels, but you're not given any choice to begin with.

"Is it anywhere near as complex as what others VNs do? Not by a long shot. But you also couldn't recreate the effect in a book or a movie unless you devoted fifteen pages or half-an-hour of runtime to psychological, hypothetical what-if sections that stem from one character saying something different and then leap into the mind of another character to explore the ripple effects, and do this four times for each week of a nine-month calendar without getting immensely confusing. It's not impossible, but it's the kind of thing that'd look ridiculously awkward in anything but a VN or videogame."

You have MC telling story from their perspective. It goes for 5 chapters. Then next 4 chapters are each told from perspective of 4 characters MC interacted in previous 5 chapters. Then it goes back to MC and rinse and repeat. Here, you just did exactly the same thing that Kindred Spirit did. You can switch it to chapters in comic or episodes in TV series.

Again you're describing the game that doesn't exist. The dialogue in couples stories doesn't change based on your choices in main story. There are barely any choices in main story to begin with. And once there is, if you pick the wrong one, couple story won't progress, so you can't read it, so unless you go and read the proper choice (and again, during the same game you can read all 3 choices without any penalty whatsoever) and only then you can read the couple story, so you have no idea how it would go if you picked the "wrong" choice, because you were never given the chance to experience that version, unlike in pretty much any other proper visual novel. Far cry from "hypothetical what-if sections that stem from one character saying something different and then leap into the mind of another character to explore the ripple effects". What you're describing is a true for non-linear VN and that's exactly the reason why they're so incredibly hard to adapt. KS on the other hand is not. It could be easily fit into 26 episode anime, probably even shorter.

Routes also aren't unique to VNs or games- there have been examples of books or movies being created based on what-if scenarios that follow from a previous instalment. VNs just polished the narrative device of a story route to a level unmatched in any other medium, but the existence of routes is still a VN tradition and not a feature.

Ok, that's just straight wrong. Reading a sequel or different interpretation of events is nothing like being able to actively influence story's progression while reading it and having vastly different experience to other people or even every time you play the VN/game (unless you always pick exact same choices, but then what's the point). No 2 play through are exactly the same, while every time you read the book or sequel or reinterpretation, you get exactly the same experience. Again, KS is a linear, kinetic novel you can't really experience differently. The end story will always be exactly the same. Interactivity and player input are like entire point of games and what separate them and make them distinct from other media, so I'm not sure how I feel about you trying to say those are not unique to them.

"I should say that I'm talking about the Final Chorus Edition of the game, so the whole replay the game and pick different dialogues for extra content might not have existed in older versions."

No. I played the game both before Final Chorus and after and all it does is adding voices to all characters. The gameplay itself doesn't change at all. And again, calling it "extra content" is awefuly generous since you get just like few different lines per choice and if you mean unlocking progression of couple story, it's more of actual content of the game, since you're required to unlock it, in order to progress further, rather than extra one.

"Basically, I do think we agree on the fundamental point that Kindred Spirits could have done more with the choice system, but chose not to for various reasons, which led to various pros and cons. I guess I should've been more specific about the fact that KSOTR used the choice and branching system in principle, but not to an innovative degree."

No. My point was that KS doesn't use choices at all and so it's weird to expect form choiceless game to include another path for Yuna and criticize it for it. I basically think your arguments about missing potential and lack of budget, are missing the point of what game actually lacked. I guess adding Yuna x Ano path would be adding choices to the game and addressing my complain (somewhat), so in that sense we would be agreeing.

Sorry if that sounds condescending or insulting, but I was trying to explain my stance as best as I could, but I do feel like we're talking past each other.

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 5:27AM

RGB ship is best ship

Sorry if that sounds condescending or insulting, but I was trying to explain my stance as best as I could, but I do feel like we're talking past each other.

It's cool. I get the points that you're making, and I guess it just boils down to our subjective ideas of what constitutes a choice. My basic point was that Ano (and Hina, to some extent) feel underdeveloped and that the game ideally ought to have given them further depth and exploration, regardless of whether it was in the form of a route, or more scenes from their perspective, or simply Yuna having more conversations with them. That's my fundamental complaint- everything else is just me speculating about how it might have been addressed. Regardless of that, I do like the game very much, and I'm glad we could have such a detailed discussion about it.

the heck with this dream Yu...

I would love to have that video Shizuku-chan~! >////<

awww such a nice kiss

^^
Qiqi x Klee souds really cute, but they're so young i think their dynamic is childhood friends to lovers, so adorable -///////-

^ but isn't contradictory pc98 lore basically non-canon in windows era? Windows Alice has no ties to Makai so shes a different person.

^except she specifically mentions the previous encounters in PCB and Word of God is that's the third time she fights Marisa and Reimu - you did read that linked article right...? She's hardly the only PC-98 immigrant to appear in the Windows era either (Yuuka being notably another one).

Meanwhile, Somewhere in Mondstadt, Amber feels a wave of Jealousy.

^ Word.

Saber of Arknights

Carcharias' Miko is simultaneously the sharpest and fluffiest version of the Crown Prince there is, and I absolutely love it.

Lin seems to go with a slightly older look on her Touhou characters than a lot of other artists and she often draws Reimu with darker skin, so they're definitely unusual, but I think they're still recognizable and I really like the artstyle.

One of these days I'll get to playing through Umineko (probably after I figure out how I want to handle the fan patch), but do these witches not know how to fly?

indeed

There is a fanfic where Akko is a Spider-Girl.

EKUSUKARIBAAAAA

^No idea if its a real uniform- but it does remind me of the sort they wore in the napoleonic wars.

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 9:47PM

^it's not, but it seems to be loosely based on the gaudy uniforms of the period. More specifically the transverse braiding characteristic of the infamously flamboyant hussar uniforms, though the artist seems to be unclear on the details and has made them buttoned flaps instead. Compare the (for the day) understated Húsares de la Muerte uniform (Chile, late 1810s).

Minus points for not showing off Dat Ass with the very tight-fitting breeches nigh-ubiquitous in the uniforms of "true" cavalry (as opposed to dragoons who were technically mounted infantry) those days. :P

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 10:30PM

You're dead Marisa..

Cute

^suit-