You know I was prepared to hate Reicchi but this chapter made it clear that even though he doesn’t romantically love Kaoru that he was willing to marry her and hide his feelings to make her feel better. It’s not the correct thing to do of course but at least he didn’t just dump her completely from his life after he broke up with Risako. And of course that also gave him the opportunity to take Uta away from their parents and make her live with him. And the fact the he confessed that when he realized he still loves Risako after meeting up again rather than lying about means that he’s nice at heart but his feelings are mixed up

Reichii did say it was a betrayal anyway. Plus a strong hint that the main reason they didn't have sex was Risako's prudence.

Not prudence, Risako is a lesbian. 100%

What do you base that on?

It's just my impression. I think Risako started to date Reichi in high school only because Kaoru was her true love interest. Reichi was easier to manipulate, but after tragic events with Kaoru's mother it fails, and Reichi is taking responsibility for Kaoru. Risako is not fighting against it.

If she is a classic jealous type of straight woman, she would not have cared for Kaoru, having sex with Reichi to prove to herself she is better than Kaoru in everything, even getting married with Reichi.
From it I perceive Risako as a lesbian. She doesn't look to me truly interested in Reichi. It looks like she is always questioning him about Kaoru, asking personal questions. Because she truly cares for her, but more than a friend.

What happened to the bisexual possibility?

@rainbow8

Risako bisexual? I would rather say Kaoru is bisexual, but not fully awaken in her sexuality. She stuck with Reichi in a marriage from pity, which I wouldn't recommend to continue.
Uta knocked hardly on her shell confessing her love, and it cracked, but not enough. It opens possibility for Risako to crack it more. We will see what is going to happen...

Look, Kaoru obviously attracted Uta, and possibly Risako. She attracted both female characters, but she did not attract Reichi in a same way. So she is giving some vibe of "unawakened lesbian" in herself.

Now she should move on from Reichi and explore her sexuality, with Uta or Risako. Personally I'm fine with either.
I just don't think for her is good to be in hetero relationship. Something is rotten in it for her. There's no love and passion.
Maybe all characters are missing some passion in their love life.
We as readers just need to see where, how and with whom the spark will finally appear. And will it ever happen

Of course, this is my personal opinion, and impressions about characters. I'm not forcing it on anyone, or say it's definitely like I'm saying. Some people can agree with me, some not, but author is the one who decides what will happen with characters.

last edited at Feb 23, 2023 12:34AM

this het drama is annoying and makes no damn sense they are all grown ass adults with the problem solving skills of preschoolers uta please come back and bang some sense into kaoru already

this het drama is annoying and makes no damn sense they are all grown ass adults with the problem solving skills of preschoolers uta please come back and bang some sense into kaoru already

Or Uta can bang someone else instead

"Risako bisexual? I would rather say Kaoru is bisexual, but not fully awaken in her sexuality. She stuck with Reichi in a marriage from pity, which I wouldn't recommend to continue.
Uta knocked hardly on her shell confessing her love, and it cracked, but not enough. It opens possibility for Risako to crack it more. We will see what is going to happen...

Look, Kaoru obviously attracted Uta, and possibly Risako. She attracted both female characters, but she did not attract Reichi in a same way. So she is giving some vibe of "unawakened lesbian" in herself."

Risako: we know she's attracted to one woman, and was able to be in a longish relationship with a guy. So she could be bisexual or lesbian, we don't know which. I see no basis for asserting that she's simply lesbian.

Kaoru: very into one guy. Most of us readers hope she's bi, so she can end up with Uta. I don't recall any actual signs of her being into any women sexually, though she has an emotional closeness to (dependence on, even) Uta. The fact that she's attractive to two women and not attractive to Reiichi is irrelevant; your sexuality is not defined by who is attracted to you.

your sexuality is not defined by who is attracted to you.

I agree with you completely. It was not my intention to claim like it is defined.

I'm finding a little strange why Kaoru is attracting same sex?
Sometimes person can give a vibe clearly, sometimes unconsciously. And sometimes person attracted to them can be wrong.

For example, Reichi is attracted to Risako, probably replacing her gay vibe for strong successful independent woman. He is attracted to his ideal. But what if his ideal turns completely wrong? (in a case if Risako is gay, she is till strong successful independent woman, but it wasn't a sexual call to Reichi, and he missed her original, deeper vibe, assuming.)

I think we can be attracted to someone perceiving a mixed signal, and basically we can think it's about sexual attraction. But sometimes it can be a confidence, and any other quality in person. Not sexuality what is attracting us.

I'm finding in this manga more complexity than just about pure sexual attractions and questioning which character is possibly gay or bi or straight.

I'm perceiving it's about finding a wholeness, how characters are interacting with each other and what they want to give, what can receive.

Whatever Risako’s sexuality may be, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that her primary personality trait that has been revealed to us is that she rarely has feelings of any kind about other people, and when she does, she finds those feelings troublesome—-her interest in Kaoru is a rare exception to her lifelong habits and behavior patterns.

By all evidence she had no interest in Reiichi beyond his connection to Kaoru, nor is there any evidence that, although they were dating before Reiichi dumped Risako to marry Kaoru, Reiichi and Risako ever actually had sex.

Risako is a lesbian imo. And there were strong hints about that during that chapter where she and Kaoru were hanging out with their other friends, and Kaoru said something like "it must be nice that you can focus on your career and not be so dependant on someone" (a man, because as far as I remember they were talking about men before that)
And Risako was like "Do you think I like it?"

It confuses me how people don't even mention that and are still surprised Pikachu face about Risako's sexuality.
Also she wasn't even interested in Reiichi and only got with him after she realized Kaoru was getting bolder with her attempts at confessing to him.

Regarding Kaoru's sexuality, I still don't believe she's even bi, but for manga's shake she might very well end up being, although I'd rather that to remain realistic and true to the development so far.
As for attracting two females, that really has nothing to do with her own sexuality. There is a bigger percentage of straight people, so it's just all about statistics. Plus gay women are hint on by men too.

last edited at Jul 22, 2020 1:06PM

Damn didn't expect for Reichi to actually not like Kaoru in the same way

Well now Kaoru is definitely going to go to Uta for help

last edited at Jul 22, 2020 7:05PM

Whatever Risako’s sexuality may be, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that her primary personality trait that has been revealed to us is that she rarely has feelings of any kind about other people, and when she does, she finds those feelings troublesome—-her interest in Kaoru is a rare exception to her lifelong habits and behavior patterns.

By all evidence she had no interest in Reiichi beyond his connection to Kaoru, nor is there any evidence that, although they were dating before Reiichi dumped Risako to marry Kaoru, Reiichi and Risako ever actually had sex.

I seem to find myself agreeing with Blastaar uncomfortably often lately ;)

I don't see much evidence for Risako's sexuality at all. She was lukewarm about Reiichi, and while she is obviously obsessed with Kaoru she describes it in terms of interest and curiosity, not as affection or attraction, not even friendly affection ( A trend which continues in chapter 35 where she uses the word 興味 literally interest/curiosity to describe her focus on Kaoru ). Sex/romance isn't the only force which drives interpersonal relationships, not even in this story, just look at Reiichi marring Kaoru. Just because it is yuri doesn't mean all the women are wlw, Kaoru's other friends are quite blatantly straight.

Kaoru is also rather non-committed. For all her "love" of Reiichi we've never seen signs of her loving him "as a man" in a physical sense, just as a character concept in her ideal romance (does she love his smell, his voice, his body? she didn't even notice when he switched out with Uta while she was asleep. Foreshadowing?). When her friends were playfully dissing him, she didn't defend his manliness, just her like of him. When Uta confessed Kaoru didn't bring up Uta's gender as a problem (even though it would have been a "go to" for most straight women looking to brush off another woman's confession). It really seems like gender doesn't mean that much to her.

Attraction doesn't always express itself a certain way. You don't have to "like someone's smell" to check attraction points.

Risako is trying to get rid of "these feelings" for years, and she dated Reiichi to prevent Kaoru from confessing. Idk what else you would call that if not attraction. It doesn't always start from finding someone hot.

Attraction doesn't always express itself a certain way. You don't have to "like someone's smell" to check attraction points.

But physical attraction of some sort is rather critical to whether her feelings for Reiichi are evidence of heterosexuality, even more so if we are talking heterosexual attraction to the exclusion of homosexual attraction (it wasn't a mandatory checklist, it was just a few examples of things that someone attracted to men, not just a particular person, might notice. My mom loves beards, but that definitely isn't Reiichi).

Although I think it is unlikely at this point, even lesbian isn't out of the question. Fixating on an idealised unattainable guy isn't unheard of for for lesbians still working things out (it is safely theoretical, and gives a handy reason for not being interested in available ones).

Edit: and some surveys suggest bisexual women are vastly more common than lesbians, so having been attracted to a man doesn't have much bearing on whether someone is likely to be attracted to women anyway.

last edited at Jul 23, 2020 8:20AM

But physical attraction of some sort is rather critical to whether her feelings for Reiichi are evidence of heterosexuality, even more so if we are talking heterosexual attraction to the exclusion of homosexual attraction (it wasn't a mandatory checklist, it was just a few examples of things that someone attracted to men, not just a particular person, might notice. My mom loves beards, but that definitely isn't Reiichi).

Although I think it is unlikely at this point, even lesbian isn't out of the question. Fixating on an idealised unattainable guy isn't unheard of for for lesbians still working things out (it is safely theoretical, and gives a handy reason for not being interested in available ones).

Fixation is a very strong word for it to merely end up being nothing. If you ask any lesbian she won't tell you she was ever fixated with a guy in the romantic sense.
If we really thought like that, then every single woman in the world can theoretically be a lesbian. Because if you take it a step further, even the ones who exhibit sexual attraction towards men could be doing it because they are attracted to the idea of what that man represents and be conditioned to think it's sexual attraction. Also even in rape situations, the woman's down low gets stimulated automatically, which could be used as an argument that even arousal is not a sexuality indicator (it's not with the rape situations, I'm just using it as an example)

It's contradictory when you say Kaoru could be a lesbian because we haven't essentially seen them doing the deed with Reichii or Kaoru drooling over him, but at the same time she never showed any sexual attraction towards Uta or any other woman. She even slapped Uta's hand away when she confessed.

It's contradictory when you say Kaoru could be a lesbian because we haven't essentially seen them doing the deed with Reichii or Kaoru drooling over him, but at the same time she never showed any sexual attraction towards Uta or any other woman. She even slapped Uta's hand away when she confessed.

I have to admit my first impulse here is to argue the point, but I don't think it will help, since we seem to be missing each other at a higher level, so I'll try coming at this from another angle.

Contradiction is about conflicting certainties, but I haven't been proposing certainties - I've been trying to argue against them (I even said I thought lesbian Kaoru was unlikely even if possible; it wouldn't really do anything for the story so it is unlikely from the 4th wall perspective too)

There are levels of plausibility/proof around a proposition. Very roughly
* It can be certain/proven
* It can be possible/not disproved
* It can be impossible/disproved.

In many (professional) contexts you will hear people use cumbersome phrases like "not inconsistent with evidence" this is to remind themselves that just because a hypothesis seems to line up with what we know doesn't mean it is proven ("reasonable doubt" is another thing that comes up in this area).

I haven't been arguing that Kaoru is definitely not straight, or that Risako is definitely not a lesbian, just that the evidence is far from conclusive, that there are possible/plausible alternatives.

eg we have never seen something Kaoru likes about Reiichi that doesn't apply at least as much to Uta.

Digressing a bit, since this isn't directly relevant to talking about fictional characters/author intent (as opposed to real people), I don't really like labels for people (to specific people, as opposed to people in general); they can too easily end up restricting choices instead of enabling them. They are a handy shorthand for talking and thinking about identity and patterns of behavior and feelings, which is great, just they shouldn't be taken too seriously (considered final/definitive).

From this perspective it seems like Kaoru and Risako have done a few things that seem to fit stereotypes/tropes and some people are rushing to jam them in those boxes, when I think tMnR is trying to write a more complex story.

An auxiliary note on Risako: tbh I would be disappointed if she is [just] a lesbian, though it is plausible/possible. Yet another "psycho lesbian stalking innocent straight protagonist" would feel like a let down.

Risako's actions have never quite aligned with her own claims, or with any obvious assumptions. We know nothing about her backstory, thus have little to go on to guess her motives. Blastaar would probably put it down to sloppy writing, but I'm still hoping tMnR is keeping her powder dry for an unexpected revelation.

One idea (I don't consider it in any way definitive) is that just as Kaoru looked to Reiichi as an embodiment of her desire for emotional security and family, Risako (in this case from a strict background constrained by high expectations) looks to Kaoru as embodying emotional freedom. She is fascinated by Kaoru's freedom to feel freely and wholeheartedly (often foolishly), admiring and envying her freedom (living though her vicariously, but not actually desiring Kaoru for herself). She wants to protect her, but sometimes she also hates her for how poorly she uses her freedom. In this scenario Risako might end up being a surprise ally for Uta/Kaoru.

edit: I feel this theory explains why Risako is at her cruelest when Kaoru is pathetically mooning over Reiichi, yet she mean to Kaoru (who has disappointed her), never to Reiichi (who she just considers pathetic).

last edited at Jul 23, 2020 10:13PM

Risako is a lesbian imo. And there were strong hints about that during that chapter where she and Kaoru were hanging out with their other friends, and Kaoru said something like "it must be nice that you can focus on your career and not be so dependant on someone" (a man, because as far as I remember they were talking about men before that)
And Risako was like "Do you think I like it?"

Harking back a bit, but might as well hit it while I am on a roll building castles in the air.

It is entirely possible for a heterosexual woman to be bitter and resentful towards the idea of a relationship with a man, yet not actually want to be alone.

atm my preferred headcanon for Risako's background is only child of a traditional fairly conservative family with high expectations. Most of the attention she would get from her parents would be bound up in their expectations of her as "heir". This is a common Japanese trope that we haven't seen yet in this series.

Things are moving, but Japan has a fairly entrenched culture of sexism. For a woman marriage => housewife => end of career (less common in the west now, but was ubiquitous several decades ago). Surely you've noticed it, even reading contemporary yuri manga - Milk Morinaga's cute little kitten - they can't get a house because it is assumed single women are just marking time until they get married; Kodama Naoko's I married my kohai... her supervisors don't give her any responsibility because they assume she isn't interested in a career. Even in this series, Kaoru quit her office job when she married Reiichi, and only does trivial part-time work, going crazy with boredom since there isn't really a household to housekeep.

As long as Risako is effectively single (this includes dating a no-hoper), she remains the focus of her parents expectations, but as soon as she is with someone "suitable" (ironically someone she can respect as an equal), her work won't take her seriously, and her parents expectations transfer to their son in law, and she is just the wife. It is enough to make anyone bitter.

It's contradictory when you say Kaoru could be a lesbian because we haven't essentially seen them doing the deed with Reichii or Kaoru drooling over him, but at the same time she never showed any sexual attraction towards Uta or any other woman. She even slapped Uta's hand away when she confessed.

To be fair, that particular incident was Kaoru still thinking it would work with Reiichi and trying not to get in a sexual situation with Uta. And Uta was acting a bit crazy and pushing things, so yeah. I don't think that had all that much to do with Kaoru not liking Uta, more that was reasonable in the situation.

Like seriously your kid sister in law is coming on to you. What do you do?

Like seriously your kid sister in law is coming on to you. What do you do?

Depends on if you're a character in a yuri manga or not.

i don't need realistic thought process i need more gay moments

It's contradictory when you say Kaoru could be a lesbian because we haven't essentially seen them doing the deed with Reichii or Kaoru drooling over him, but at the same time she never showed any sexual attraction towards Uta or any other woman. She even slapped Uta's hand away when she confessed.

To be fair, that particular incident was Kaoru still thinking it would work with Reiichi and trying not to get in a sexual situation with Uta. And Uta was acting a bit crazy and pushing things, so yeah. I don't think that had all that much to do with Kaoru not liking Uta, more that was reasonable in the situation.

Like seriously your kid sister in law is coming on to you. What do you do?

Yeah she seemed like she had some attraction towards Uta back then, because she was blushing a lot. But it can't be denied that she has always been in love with Reiichi and so far that hasn't changed. I can't see how the story will turn things around enough for her to end up with Uta, even if that's what I hope. Maybe a time skip?

It's contradictory when you say Kaoru could be a lesbian because we haven't essentially seen them doing the deed with Reichii or Kaoru drooling over him, but at the same time she never showed any sexual attraction towards Uta or any other woman. She even slapped Uta's hand away when she confessed.

To be fair, that particular incident was Kaoru still thinking it would work with Reiichi and trying not to get in a sexual situation with Uta. And Uta was acting a bit crazy and pushing things, so yeah. I don't think that had all that much to do with Kaoru not liking Uta, more that was reasonable in the situation.

Like seriously your kid sister in law is coming on to you. What do you do?

Yeah she seemed like she had some attraction towards Uta back then, because she was blushing a lot. But it can't be denied that she has always been in love with Reiichi and so far that hasn't changed. I can't see how the story will turn things around enough for her to end up with Uta, even if that's what I hope. Maybe a time skip?

I think it was obviously the case that early on Kaoru was seriously attached to Uta--we had all kinds of yuri-ish trope scenes, like the necklace gift at the top of the Ferris wheel, Kaoru initiating a "family hug" greeting/leaving protocol (how un-Japanese is that?), etc. The story seemed to be setting up for a "mutual growing attraction age-gap" series.

But then when Uta made her feelings clear, everything went hard in the opposite direction, all of which can be rationalized on psychological/character grounds, but making "where does this story think it's going?" more of an open question than ever.

But then when Uta made her feelings clear, everything went hard in the opposite direction, all of which can be rationalized on psychological/character grounds, but making "where does this story think it's going?" more of an open question than ever.

This story's direction was clear right from the beginning. Only if you read the necklace moment as a romantic development and hoped/thought it meant they were going to end up together, it doesn't make sense.
It makes sense right from the start if Kaoru never had any romantic feelings towards Uta.
These scenes that people keep mentioning are not much really. Hence why it's called Unrequited Love. Kaoru is attached to Uta, but that doesn't mean in a romantic sense.