Forum › Magia Record: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Side Story discussion

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

EX5 Tried with support Madokami, Homura and Kokoro tanking, but it didn't go as well as I thought it will. I did kill Sayuki and Ria, so it wasn't terrible. Need to rethink my approach.

That happened to me repeatedly, always getting very close but failing, which got very frustrating, though once I calmed down from the frustration enough, I figured that I was getting close enough that I could get it done if I kept bashing my face against that figurative wall until it broke, and then I got that one really good run where everything went perfectly.

And the same is true for other stuff. They gave some connects strong effects like stun or charm and people used it to lock enemies? They give harder bosses immunity to status aliments, rendering those strategies useless.

Doesn't always happen, but honestly it really stood out to me in this event in particular, where most enemies in the later normal challenge stages were just immune to Charm/Bind/Stun, something I only noticed at all cuz I was throwing Homura at my problems as usual and her Connect caused the message to constantly come up, and it just struck me as so compeltely unecessary, the fights aren't hard enough to make Lockdown memes a necessity, but they still immunized most bosses to it for almost no reason.

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Rosmontis
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joined Jun 5, 2015

Veya posted:

the fights aren't hard enough to make Lockdown memes a necessity, but they still immunized most bosses to it for almost no reason.

To make them "harder" and not allowing you to cheese them. They only started making bosses immune, because they didn't like people abusing those effects in the first place. And well many people who don't have so many strong megucas as us often do rely on those strategies to win harder challenges.

last edited at May 23, 2020 7:29PM

Sakura Cartelet
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joined May 28, 2016

Kind of reminds me what they did in FGO with stun/charm. Against male bosses (in particular male bersekers or sabers) Euryale was one of one of the more popular options given she does a ton of damage to them, stuns them with a 100% chance and decreases their attack. In the right team she could (almost) perpetually stunlock a boss to death. Then there's Merlin with how OP he is too...

So like this game, they don't like it so they give male bosses immunity to charm (although thankfully not the uber damage) and other status effects, bosses invuln pierce so Merlin isn't as good...

Somewhat unrelated to this, but I'm pretty sure Mito has some form of autism given how she thinks she can talk to cats by meowing at them and draws strange creatures out of her imagination.

last edited at May 23, 2020 8:59PM

riverFlower Uploader
The Golden Orchid
joined Jan 19, 2017

Did you try using a magical girl with a taunt memoria? Taunt, ignore defense, endure (similar to FGO's guts) and similar things are not buffs but instead granted effects, which are not removed by any ability that removes buffs.

It's also fairly easy to tell which is a buff an which isn't one: buffs have red icons while granted effects are yellow so there's usually no confusion as to which one is which.

I did not know that, that will be helpful. And then status effects are purple? Wait but the wiki says evade, damage up, and reduced damage are granted effects, and those three were all removed too by EX 4 boss.

And well many people who don't have so many strong megucas as us often do rely on those strategies to win harder challenges.

I used Kanoko when I first started playing because her charm connect was useful. Well actually the real reason I used her at first was because I liked her design, and then I found out her charm connect could give me an extra turn to live lol.

Sakura Cartelet
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joined May 28, 2016

It'd probably even easier with a double (non-Holy) Mami, given her connect has bind with 100% accuracy. Two of them could pretty much stunlock a boss indefinitely without immunity.

Edit: Speaking of Mami, that the NA server's version of her doppel has an additional effect: Skill Surge: All (Reduce coodown on skills) compared to the JP one.

last edited at May 24, 2020 2:46AM

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

Somewhat unrelated to this, but I'm pretty sure Mito has some form of autism given how she thinks she can talk to cats by meowing at them and draws strange creatures out of her imagination.

That's the sorta thing that is difficult to gauge, in IRL that would definitely be the sorta thing associated with autism, but in anime that's often "quirky energic child" traits, and Mito's personal Magia is the ability to "connect with other's hearts", she might actually be able to speak to cats, or at least understand them, as an effect of her Magia, just not how she thinks she is doing it.

last edited at May 24, 2020 7:12AM

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Rosmontis
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joined Jun 5, 2015

She was like that before she become meguca though. And I don't think it's autism, but she just thinks in very unique ways. During her event it was clearly shown she's aware people consider her weird and make fun of her, but that's just who she is and she can't or don't want to change it. People laughing at her still hurt her feelings though. Then again I have 0 knowledge and 0 experience with autistic people, so all of it might still apply to them (ok daughter of my cousin is autistic, but I saw her like twice and didn't really try to interact with her, also she's on extreme end of the spectrum).

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

But again, it is really difficult to tell if it is the intent with fictional characters, Ayame is also a character that can come across as autistic due to how incredibly disconnected to the world around her she can be at times, which is a very common autism trait, but it isn't something that gets a lot of focus other than Konoha thinking that Ayame is immature for her age, and I feel that considering how much of a helicopter mom Konoha can be, it would be something that she would have already looked for medical diagnose for, if it was the intent behind the writing.

I am not opposed to reading characters in light of mental disorders, I am honestly very much in favor of the read that Alina comes across as a very intentional textbook case of a sociopath as an example, but autism in particular has a very broad spectrum, and I know it is fairly easy to land into certain behaviors when trying to come up with unusual quirks for a character to have, so it is much more difficult to be certain if there is intent behind the writing.

last edited at May 24, 2020 10:51AM

Sakura Cartelet
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joined May 28, 2016

Well stage 7's given me plenty of Commoner's Horse Wheels in addition to the event currency. Have bought out all the rainbow orbs, the tickets, the ap potions, and the 9 event currency mats, am working on the 20 event currency ones then the 40 followed by the 3 mil CC.

riverFlower Uploader
The Golden Orchid
joined Jan 19, 2017

Re Mito, does she act that weirdly? She seemed pretty normal to me in her MSS if airheaded at times.

I saw that the illustrator for the memoria "A Once Empty World" (beautiful memoria title by the way) is called H2SO4. Who names themselves after sulfuric acid???

I would say Mito is autistic

source: I have autism myself and I know a few autistic people

I think most people don't actually know what autism is, they just know the stereotypical autistic person

Sakura Cartelet
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joined May 28, 2016

Keep in mind that like you said not all people manifest autism in the same way so what I meant to say that by "pretty sure" that it was a strong possibility. Of course the writers could have meant something else entirely or could have not thought that she might be interpreted as having it.

On the the issues of wishes has it ever been said whether or not reviving dead people is possible? If so why didn't Homura simply wish to revive Madoka instead of what happened in the original series?

On an unrelated note, I've almost finished farming event currency to purchase the mats. Will then go on to CC > magia chips (am saving up to get my Moemura her 3rd and eventually her final slot) > books.

riverFlower Uploader
The Golden Orchid
joined Jan 19, 2017

Keep in mind that like you said not all people manifest autism in the same way so what I meant to say that by "pretty sure" that it was a strong possibility. Of course the writers could have meant something else entirely or could have not thought that she might be interpreted as having it.

I'm not sure if the writers would ever intend to be direct about writing in mental illnesses/neurodivergent characters. I get the impression they're just writing in as many characters with distinct, interesting personalities/backgrounds as is reasonable, who still fit into the world in some way.

Which isn't to say those interpretations aren't valid, but that there's no evidence to point towards it being intentional on the writers' parts or not. Like even for something like depression, you've got a bunch of depressed teenagers, but is that word ever used anywhere? Instead there are all of these metaphors/stories about despair, witching out, trying to find meaning and hope, etc. So do the authors intend to talk about depression or a more philosophical idea? And the example of for Mito having autistic traits, would the writers be showcasing autism or another flavor of being human then?

On the the issues of wishes has it ever been said whether or not reviving dead people is possible? If so why didn't Homura simply wish to revive Madoka instead of what happened in the original series?

There's been some discussion on this online. My take is that personal desire trumps logic in those moments. Homura clearly wanted to save Madoka with her own hands, to be stronger, so that's what she wishes for. Another argument could be made that Madoka would be upset as hell seeing Mitakihara destroyed and everyone they know dead, so Homura wanted to prevent that too. And maybe Homura wouldn't have enough potential to bring back an entire city. Plus lot of chances for things to go wonky with so many fates being rewritten. But personal desire overriding any other ideas is my main answer.

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Rosmontis
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joined Jun 5, 2015

Sakura Cartelet posted:

On the the issues of wishes has it ever been said whether or not reviving dead people is possible? If so why didn't Homura simply wish to revive Madoka instead of what happened in the original series?

Funny you ask, because Seika's wish was exactly to revive Leila after she was forced to commit suicide by a witch. Something people tend to forget is that entire Mitakihara gets destroyed and presumably all, or at least, most people in the city gets wiped out as well. So if Homura simply asked to revive Madoka, there wouldn't be really much meaning in it and Madoka's family probably would be dead as well. Also Homura's wish has a very important, personal meaning. She pretty much felt helpless and that she had to be protected entire time (especially if you add to it the whole being sick thing) and couldn't do anything on her own, so she wanted to changed and become person who not only doesn't need protection, but can also protect others, especially people she cares about.

EDIT/ Lol I forgot to send message and just left it waiting like that xD

last edited at May 25, 2020 8:06PM

Sakura Cartelet
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joined May 28, 2016

I do wonder how much Homura really cares about random strangers and people that aren't important to Madoka given how she (Homura) acts towards Mami and (to a lesser degree) Sayaka in the main series? The Homura in Magia Record might care more about those people (although not if Madoka in danger?) though.

Unrelated but I found a funny site talking about anti-magical girl propaganda.

last edited at May 26, 2020 12:27AM

riverFlower Uploader
The Golden Orchid
joined Jan 19, 2017

I do wonder how much Homura really cares about random strangers and people that aren't important to Madoka given how she (Homura) acts towards Mami and (to a lesser degree) Sayaka in the main series? The Homura in Magia Record might care more about those people (although not if Madoka in danger?) though.

I only have main series + some MR knowledge to go off of, no spin-offs if Homura shows up in them. That's something else people have debated back and forth on lol. I feel like Homura after multiple timelines does stop caring about random strangers and people unimportant to Madoka. She does care about Mami / Sayaka though. Mami in particular she used to look up to also. But Mami almost kills her, and well, after that timeline is when she completely changes. So it makes sense she'd be cold to Mami, feeling she's a lost cause. She sees Sayaka the same way, as a lost cause. Cause well, there is literally no timeline where Sayaka doesn't witch out once she contracts.

But going back to random strangers, if she was just randomly wandering around and a witch shows up that's luring people to it, would she kill it just to help them? I don't see why not, she gets a grief seed out of it. If there was zero reward, then I don't know. She may or may not care, but either way, unless she's thinking something like "Madoka would be disappointed in me if she knew" or "Madoka would be sad", she might not have enough intrinsic motivation. She's devoted everything to Madoka after all.

Unrelated but I found a funny site talking about anti-magical girl propaganda.

Nice.

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

I do wonder how much Homura really cares about random strangers and people that aren't important to Madoka given how she (Homura) acts towards Mami and (to a lesser degree) Sayaka in the main series? The Homura in Magia Record might care more about those people (although not if Madoka in danger?) though.

I feel this is one of those things that people give Homura a lot less credit than she deserves, and that her seemly uncaring behavior is a lot more related to compromises, when push comes to shove, she does not like the idea of letting people get hurt for no reason, but once it becomes a choice between letting someone she never met die, and even running the risk of Madoka being in danger, she will always choose the latter, so it is less about how much she cares, and more about what she is willing to sacrifice first.

One of the things I feel is very important in reading Homura's inner thoughts is the first third of Rebellion, because that first third is Homura's ideal world, the perfect world that her subconscious shaped once her labyrinth formed, and that ideal world is a world where everyone she was ever close to is fine and happy, it goes as far as giving much greater stability to Kyoko's life, putting her in a position where she is going to school again and has a home, with the always amusing implication that Homura lowkey shipped KyoSaya all along, since she had them living together in her world...

Also I want to say... why people act like Homura treats Mami badly? this is one of those things I paid very close attention to in the original series, and Homura is consistently very polite, if dry and cold, towards Mami, and to act like being cold is her being rude requires to ignore that coldness is Homura's default deameanor, Mami is the one who consistently throws thinly veiled threats at Homura every time they met, she is harsher towards Sayaka, but when you add in context from later into the story, specifically Rebellion, you could also read the harshness as trying to scare Sayaka into behaving and not getting herself killed... which as we know, Sayaka is consistently terrible at.

Cause well, there is literally no timeline where Sayaka doesn't witch out once she contracts.

This is actually inaccurate... there is no timeline in which Sayaka survives once she contracts, but it is split between witching out and dying in battle, not that either fate is really that good.

last edited at May 26, 2020 4:05AM

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Rosmontis
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joined Jun 5, 2015

We already had that discussion and my arguments were completely ignored, so I'm not bothering to repeat myself, especially now that it seems like my understanding of story was always flawed to begin with, because I thought Homura tried to defeat Walpurgisnacht together with Madoka many times before she went solo, proving that she initially did try to save everyone. 1 thing thought that still should be true, everything that Homura says out-load and not think can't be taken at a face value, otherwise we'd be supposed to take all the times that Homura is cold and mean towards Madoka as what she truly feels as well? Homura is playing a character which after so much time become kinda part of her true self (Becoming the Mask), but when she breaks down and tells true to Madoka, those are her true feelings.

As for Sayaka, she's a "ally of justice" kind of person, so even if she didn't fall into despair, she's the kind of selfless hero that would jump head first into danger to protect others without considering the risk, so I can see how that could lead to her overestimating herself and getting killed regardless of Homura's interference.

last edited at May 26, 2020 8:53AM

riverFlower Uploader
The Golden Orchid
joined Jan 19, 2017

I feel this is one of those things that people give Homura a lot less credit than she deserves, and that her seemly uncaring behavior is a lot more related to compromises... so it is less about how much she cares, and more about what she is willing to sacrifice first.

Homura's a complex character, because her actions speak for her so much, and actions can be interpreted many ways especially given how much she's numbed her feelings. I think there is also room for an interpretation of her where when push comes to shove, she would trade everything, every other person in the world, even Madoka's own wishes, to protect Madoka. That's exactly what she does by the end of Rebellion after all. And maybe that makes her uncaring.

I agree though that feeling wise, she cares. It certainly causes her pain seeing others suffer. She wishes she could just get them to do what's most convenient for them by acting scary, so that they don't all die. It just doesn't seem to matter in the end when she would sacrifice the world for Madoka and action-wise she will always make the same choice.

This is actually inaccurate... there is no timeline in which Sayaka survives once she contracts, but it is split between witching out and dying in battle, not that either fate is really that good.

Ah, yeah tbh it's the same difference to me lol but duly noted. Basically Sayaka digs her own grave every single timeline. From what I know of the PSP game, the only times she survives are because Kyouko stepped in, and their canonicity is questionable.

We already had that discussion and my arguments were completely ignored, so I'm not bothering to repeat myself, especially now that it seems like my understanding of story was always flawed to begin with, because I thought Homura tried to defeat Walpurgisnacht together with Madoka many times before she went solo, proving that she initially did try to save everyone.

Oh wow that discussion really was only like a month ago. If it is any consolation your analysis of her character makes sense to me.

How many timelines she goes through before going solo isn't completely clear, but the timeline where she tells them about magical girls turning into witches is when she goes cold. In the anime that's the third timeline we're shown, but who knows if there were any gaps in between.

She does always try to save everyone even after going solo. I mean her goal is to defeat Walpurgisnacht, in large part of course so Madoka has no reason to contract, which has the side effect of saving everyone.

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

And maybe that makes her uncaring.

I don't think that's a fair perspective, if you can't donate to charity because you only money goes towards providing for your family, does that mean you care none for the cause? people make sacrifices over what is more important all the time, Homura was just operating on much higher stakes than the average person.

Ah, yeah tbh it's the same difference to me lol

Witching out has always been noted to be way worse, it isn't just dying, it is having your soul twisted by literal physical, quantifiable suffering and despair, it is a situation where both are awful but if dying is a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, witching out is a 25.

We already had that discussion and my arguments were completely ignored

Oy, I did comment on what you said... I just mostly agreed with everything so I didn't have much to add to it beyond nodding in agreement.

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Rosmontis
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Oh no, I meant people who disagreed with me neither tried to disprove my points nor really address them. I was happy you agreed with me, so I wasn't talking about you.

Sakura Cartelet
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joined May 28, 2016

I really like that scene where Homura mistakes Rika for Madoka after just fixing her (Homura's) eyes.

Also done with both the magia chips and CC from the event shop. Will farm the remaining stuff (minus the BP potions) in the following days.

Edit: Now got my Mayu's doppel. Not sure who to work on next.

last edited at May 27, 2020 12:25AM

riverFlower Uploader
The Golden Orchid
joined Jan 19, 2017

And maybe that makes her uncaring.

I don't think that's a fair perspective, if you can't donate to charity because you only money goes towards providing for your family, does that mean you care none for the cause? people make sacrifices over what is more important all the time, Homura was just operating on much higher stakes than the average person.

I agree that her actions in the main series are in large part due to circumstances more than anything else. Which makes seeing her actually getting along with people in MR and being able to care so much more heart warming. Also I do like to play devil's advocate sometimes because even if I don't agree with an idea in the end, it might still be interesting to me.

A separate rant, I forget where I've seen people say that MR is less "good" than PMMM because the stakes aren't as high in terms of max achievable despair, but I always thought that was one of MR's strengths. The initial premise provides a different type of hope than Madokami does and that's fascinating to explore, especially given how the Magius act. It also gives characters like Homura some time to breath. If even one timeline exists where they all can be more happy, I think they've fought more than enough to deserve that. (Doppels are far from being wonderful, but that's another topic.)

Ah, yeah tbh it's the same difference to me lol

Witching out has always been noted to be way worse, it isn't just dying, it is having your soul twisted by literal physical, quantifiable suffering and despair, it is a situation where both are awful but if dying is a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, witching out is a 25.

Hmm I'm also curious now, what was the source for her deaths being half from witching out and half from dying?

I really like that scene where Homura mistakes Rika for Madoka after just fixing her (Homura's) eyes.

Where does that happen?

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Rosmontis
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joined Jun 5, 2015

riverFlower posted:

Which makes seeing her actually getting along with people in MR and being able to care so much more heart warming.

Except that's not Homura. That's one of issues I have with the lazy justification for story. We're seeing different universe than the one from OG anime, so the Homura, Madoka, Sayaka, Mami and Kyouko are different character. They're not the characters we know, and as far as we know, they might be separate people with different personalities etc. In fact, I kinda feel like writers don't understand OG story at all, because in her episode story Coolmura is incredibly OOC. She can't comprehend why Homura from this universe would ever bother helping or doing anything for someone else than Madoka and she thinks befriending people and trying to act as a team is a waste of time. She thinks exactly how people who think Homura is a bad person would write her. Honestly the revelation we're not following the universe we know and those are separate characters that actually made different choices than OG cast in OG universe, kinda turned me off to them and now I can't really invest in them as much. So Homura you see in MR is not OG Homura and she will never become Coolmura, because they're separate characters that thinks differently.

A separate rant, I forget where I've seen people say that MR is less "good" than PMMM because the stakes aren't as high in terms of max achievable despair

Everywhere, because that's complaint that (almost) everyone who was a fan of OG series made. That the biggest strength of OG was the fact everyone dies and that no one was safe. And in general how heavy, dark and psychological OG series was. Which is true, but MR doesn't even try to do that and instead tries to go for something different, which imo executes on pretty well. Simply instead of a full on tragedy, MR is more of a drama.

, but I always thought that was one of MR's strengths.

What I was pointing out is that we can actually see OG team working together and Madoka as a proper magical girl, since thanks to how OG series works, we never actually saw that (though because of how little we actually see them and how little they contribute, it kinda loses its impact). But once you realize they're actually different characters it does take away from it. Also I like the contrast they're going for compare to OG series, though from what I knew about ending, I thought they'll go about it a bit differently, but now that I read up to chapter 9 and I can't anymore guess how exactly they'll wrap it all up, I'm not sure what exactly my thoughts on it are, but I guess I still like the idea. Pretty much OG series focused with how Homura tries to defeat Walpurgisnacht solo, while MR is all about bonds, connections and teamwork so at the end all Kamihama girls join forces to defeat it, so it make you feel like all Homura had to do was ask others for help, but still I kinda like the implication that we can overcome everything together. It gives different feel than OG, while being just as hopeful as it.

last edited at May 27, 2020 8:01AM

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