Welp, Akira is straight... too bad for you, Hime. Unless you are transgender too, Akira will forever see you as a childhood friend.

Yukka is probably in love with Anzu.

The soccer guy is probably unaware Akira is a transgirl, and even if he is, the rest of the team probably won't be as accepting.

And first loves never work out.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 7:15AM

Aaaw now I'm starting to be interested. I luv het tgirls stories. <3 (Boku Girl <3)

And yuri between Hime and the tall blond girl is going to be so hawt.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 8:40AM

Well that went entirely as expected.

Maybe Akira is bi?
I mean they acknowledge trans people?
I dunno i hope they get together but sigh trans lesbians are invisible

Btw for a bi trans girl here
https://mangakakalot.com/manga/shoujo_shounen_go_go_ichigo

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 8:51AM

Aaaw now I'm starting to be interested. I luv het tgirls stories. <3 (Boku Girl <3)

And yuri between Hime and the tall blond girl is going to be so hawt.

Why? Why not t girl yuri l

Sylke posted:

Aaaw now I'm starting to be interested. I luv het tgirls stories. <3 (Boku Girl <3)

I think tgirls falling in love with guys is the least interesting trope ever. It caters to homophobes who can't believe you can fall in love with the same sex, so "if this person is a girl, then it's normal she falls in love with a boy".

The intent behind het tgirls stories, in my opinion, is to normalize the nail that sticks out by making it fit into a standard pattern.

I don't mean het tgirls are something that doesn't exist or is bad, on the contrary, I totally support them. Just that using them in stories is usually lazy writing, because the author took the easy path.

But your own interpretation may vary. I guess there are some good het tgirls stories out there. Not this one though.

And I couldn't stand Boku Girl. It irritated me to no end.

And yuri between Hime and the tall blond girl is going to be so hawt.

Doubt Yukka is interested in Hime. She sticks close to and defends Anzu for a reason.

And Hime isn't interested in girls in general, but just in Akira in particular.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 9:35AM

Admittedly I didn't read every het transgirl manga there is, but, focusing on the "real" transgender manga, not the magical ones, even though most of them are transgender metaphors (like Bra Girl, Boku Girl, Kanojo ni Haru ni...), nor the crossdressing or trap ones...

List of transgirls lesbians in manga :
- Wandering Son (main character)
- Double House
- Half & Half
- Nicoichi
- Otokono Doushi Renai Chuu (trans girl x trans girl )
- Himegoto Juukyusai no Seifuku (I believe she's trans right ?)
- Kyu Kara Yonshimai

List of transgirls het in manga :
- Wandering Son (yuki-san)
- Ai no Shintairaku
- F.Compo (trans guy x trans woman)
- Hanayome wa Motodan shi
- No Bra (if I remember well she's trans ?)
- Sunu Sumu Muriku no Koibito

Pansexual Tgirls :
- Arachne (Angel Sanctuary) (can't remember but pretty sure she's bi/pan, angel sanctuary is a big genderfuck anyway)
- Bokura no Hentai (not sure but I believe Marika was bi ?)
- Genshiken Nidaime & Spotted Flower (clearly bi/pan)

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 10:04AM

Bah. If you depict a lesbian tgirl, you support the autogynephily theory.
If you depict a het tgirl you support the "homosexual boy in dress" theory.

None is "least interesting". Personnally I prefer lesbian tgirls story cause I'm a lesbian twoman, but I really enjoy het tgirls story because they make me feel really validated as a woman. Having a man love you is the best way to crush the idea that we are defined by our sex assigned at birth.

That's only my view on the topic and my feeling about it of course.

I litterally adore Prunus Girl. I didn't note it above because it's a yaoi, or mostly a NB x Boy, but gooooood, I feel so good reading this manga every time. The hero is SO FCKING COOL.

Gender hacking at its finest.

I think tgirls falling in love with guys is the least interesting trope ever. It caters to homophobes who can't believe you can fall in love with the same sex, so "if this person is a girl, then it's normal she falls in love with a boy".

The intent behind het tgirls stories, in my opinion, is to normalize the nail that sticks out by making it fit into a standard pattern.

I don't mean het tgirls are something that doesn't exist or is bad, on the contrary, I totally support them. Just that using them in stories is usually lazy writing, because the author took the easy path.

but like
and you even pointed this out
there ARE real het trans women???
like, a lot of them????
and like, since they exist, surely they deserve representation same as anyone else?
am I missing something here?????

I really don't think the trans community has some crazy conspiracy to throw LGB folks under the bus. (And I REALLY don't think this author, who is writing a female main character who is in love with a trans woman, is in on said crazy conspiracy.) It seems much more likely that people are just writing stories about... people, with experiences that real people have. It doesn't have to be some kind of oppression math.

And as far as taking "the easy path" goes, I think it's pretty clear that Akira's orientation here is generating conflict for the main character. From a craft perspective, that's the important thing: making the main character deal with as many obstacles as possible. So I don't think this is an easy way out for the author at all. I'm actually quite curious how our author intends to resolve the situation they've set up.

Btw, thanks to Sylke for the list of manga there. I do feel compelled to point out that a trans woman and a trans man together are definitely in a heterosexual relationship, but for real I now have a reading list :VVV

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 10:09AM

Yddisac posted:

and you even pointed this out
there ARE real het trans women???
like, a lot of them????
and like, since they exist, surely they deserve representation same as anyone else?
am I missing something here?????

Yes, you're missing that these stories are not about real het trans women, but about fantasized trans women. Almost always those that "pass".

Those that "don't pass" are objects of comedy, like a big man in a dress, with a stubble and outrageous make up, probably working in a bar in kabuki-cho.

There are exceptions, like Hourou Musuko, which is a real oddity in mainstream manga (though I still have a hard time forgiving the author for Yoshino's heart-wrenching ending (even if it's a realistic ending)). Or Bokura No Hentai, where Marika is a really attaching character, whose struggle is aptly depicted and she's allowed to take puberty blocking drugs.

I really don't think the trans community has some crazy conspiracy to throw LGB folks under the bus. (And I REALLY don't think this author, who is writing a female main character who is in love with a trans woman, is in on said crazy conspiracy.) It seems much more likely that people are just writing stories about... people, with experiences that real people have. It doesn't have to be some kind of oppression math.

No, these manga don't write about the experience of real trans girls. Real trans girls struggle a lot more with a lot more things than these characters.

Do you think we will see Akira struggling with her beard, her body hair, her broad shoulders, her "male attachments"? I don't think so. Even though she's at the age when this is going to become an issue, for her and for how people view her.

And as far as taking "the easy path" goes, I think it's pretty clear that Akira's orientation here is generating conflict for the main character. From a craft perspective, that's the important thing: making the main character deal with as many obstacles as possible. So I don't think this is an easy way out for the author at all. I'm actually quite curious how our author intends to resolve the situation they've set up.

If Akira ends up with Hime, I will be very disappointed.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 12:41PM

Except most trans girls, especially transitionning in their teens, ends up passing fairly easily. And they certainly don't have big hands and square shoulders... Most "non passing" trans girls are trans girls that are early in transition or transitionned very late or are very unlucky on the biological side. Or that don't want to medically transition at all.

Wandering Son : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Double House : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Half & Half : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Nicoichi : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Otokono Doushi Renai Chuu : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Himegoto Juukyusai no Seifuku : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Kyu Kara Yonshimai : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Ai no Shintairaku : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
F.Compo : might have a bit of fantasy or object of comedy here, but globally it's good-natured
Hanayome wa Motodan shi : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
No Bra : I don't remember
Sunu Sumu Muriku no Koibito : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Arachne (Angel Sanctuary) : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Bokura no Hentai : no fantasy here (or object of comedy)
Genshiken Nidaime & Spotted Flower : it's a comedy but the tgirl is not the object, and she's not fantasized either

In all those mangas, there is depiction of how hard it is to transition, of rejection, of realistic things, of being a bit too tall, to wide, of getting spotted.

I don't remember having seen a transgender manga that made me say "fuuuuuuu" before, on the contrary the depictions of trans persons in mangas are pretty interesting and on point ! (can't say the same for the cinema, series, other medias... !)

Of course no manga is actually showing you the laser surgeries, the SRS surgeries, the FFS surgeries, the pills, the waxing, the pain, the dilatations, ... No manga show you in detail the medical side. But as far as the social side (getting bullied, dealing with your own body, wanting to kill yourself, prostitution, etc.) is concerned, these mangas do a great job.

Also as a twoman my reality is shitty enough, I prefer to read fantasy things that make me feel good.

Personally, the reason I get really bored and annoyed with het transwoman stories is I am consistently expected in my life to start finding men attractive just because I transitioned, as though taking hormones suddenly change my entire character, het transwomen exist and seem to be more of the norm than trans lesbians so I'd just like for once the transwoman in a story like this to be totally unashamedly gay as shit.
That's actually part of the main reason I was avoiding this series because a het development is super expected at this point.

You made a list of what you consider as "serious" manga about tgirls, but there are hundreds more out there that don't fit your narrative.

Most where magic or pseudo-science, is involved, like Boku Girl, Balance Policy, Kami-sama no Ekohiiki, etc, where people "emerge" into girls out of nowhere and end up falling for their male childhood friend, because a GIRL should like MEN and that's how it is.

I don't read gender bender manga to read the same old "girl falls in love with boy" stories. You cite "Himegoto Juukyusai no Seifuku", but the character crossdressing doesn't even identify as a girl. His reasons for crossdressing are actually more complex than "I am a girl therefore I must dress as a girl".

And from where that "most trans girls end up passing fairly easily" comes from, I wonder.

Rosenakahara posted:

Personally, the reason I get really bored and annoyed with het transwoman stories is I am consistently expected in my life to start finding men attractive just because I transitioned, as though taking hormones suddenly change my entire character, het transwomen exist and seem to be more of the norm than trans lesbians so I'd just like for once the transwoman in a story like this to be totally unashamedly gay as shit.

^This. I'm not trans, but I'm always annoyed at stories where the transwoman is expected to fall for some nice boy who will finally accepts her.

That's actually part of the main reason I was avoiding this series because a het development is super expected at this point.

I'll keep on reading this series because I want to know where Hime stands. I don't really care about Akira at this point. She's a weak pushover.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 1:59PM

Well I know hundreds of twoman ans passing is a LOT less an issue than what is usually said in the medias, especially body passing.

I made the list about TRANSGENDER mangas. Not gender bender ones. We're talking about representation of trans person here, not about magic things, because that has nothing to do with being trans ... ?

Like the hero of Boku Girl doesn't feel like he's a girl. He's just magically transformed.

So yeah, I'm only selecting the trans narrative.

And in the trans narrative, the tropes you are criticizing are most of the time not present.

Well, you were the one who went on about

"I luv het tgirls stories. <3 (Boku Girl <3)"

Now, you say the MC is not a tgirl anyway.

Boku Girl is exactly the type of manga I'm annoyed with.

Yeah, that's stories that appeal to trans women, but not trans stories.

Of course Boku Girl is annoying philosophically speaking, but since it's not talking about transgender issues, it annoys me a lot less.

If we start talking about gender bender in general, then 80 percent of the manga production is indeed super annoying.

everyone discussing t relationships and such

Me: YUKKA IS HOT

@Sylke
From what I know (having read ahead in the raws), Akira isn't transitioning **yet**. She has only just started wearing women's clothes as a first step. I think that's important to remember when discussing her passing or not.

Edit: @Queen Kazama
Agreed! Totally my type! (...and half my age... =_=)

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 3:47PM

A lot of you guys who want Yuri are overreacting, you just need to relax and think about the ways the story could go, for example Akira could get really close and maybe slightly romantic with 5-kun (I forgot his name and only remember his number being 5) and then one of two things could happen: A. 5-kun finds out she's trans and accepts it or B. He finds out she's trans and is disgusted, if A were to happen then I believe it'd be game over for Hime, she lost the girl end of manga with maybe a prologue omake, however if B were to happen Hime could comfort Akira and maybe make a move on her?? And they gradually start dating, then of course there's also the route where by some miracle Hime is able to romance Akira before she gets really really close with 5-kun

Idk about you guys but I really want Akira to date Hime because Hime has always been there for Akira but idk man I guess I'll be fine if she ends up with 5-kun, just slightly disappointed

Actually, I still don't know what kind of story this wants to be. The theme should be about respecting someone's gender identity, but then it's pretty fuzzy about sexual preference.

And Hime's character is a bit too hysterical to be taken seriously : constantly shouting, sweating, blushing, overreacting and turning super-deformed. She looks like the MC, but she's defined only in regards to Akira, which isn't an interesting character.

This manga is only preaching at the moment. It's not telling a story.

Well let's see how it unfolds. I'm mildly annoyed by the trans representation but since it's not transyuri anymore, it's a lot more interesting. (as I said, it's really the "girl going out with a hot guy in dress" thing that annoys the shit out of me, because it's a very hypocrit fantasy of a lot of women out there and I suffered from it, as did a lot of others I'm sure)

And actually, if it's trans het, then it's nice that Akira is not passing (without it being yaoi like a lot of yaoi out there).

So I'm a lot more interested in that manga now.

This manga is only preaching at the moment. It's not telling a story.

Yup. Especially the first episodes were really annoying for that. It was basically trans advocacy over and over, and no one is interested in that. Supporting trans rights works by writing good trans stories, not trying super hard to be an ally and write something meh. (that will have the exact opposite impact)

Now there's romance and things seem to happen, so I'm happy. (I'm more interested in Yuuka x Hime but well, I'm rooting for Akira too of course)

That's it. I ship Hime and Yukka since it doesn't look like things will work out with Akira.

Doubt Yukka is interested in Hime. She sticks close to and defends Anzu for a reason.

Oh... so Hime never gets a happy ending... thats nice

Yuuka's more interesting than Hime lol. Solid mvp Yuuka