Forum › A Yuri Manga Between a Delinquent and a Quiet Girl That Starts From a Misunderstanding discussion
It's just a comparison; an analogy. Jeezus. If you say "Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process" that doesn't imply that animal cruelty is the same as humor. Don't read what people write to maximum offensiveness and then be surprised when you are offended.
All they implied is that the past doesn't necessarily define what's currently going on. So she might be bi, or she might have found she's actually a lesbian. Who cares? Well, obviously, this discussion does, but ...
All they implied is that the past doesn't necessarily define what's currently going on. So she might be bi, or she might have found she's actually a lesbian. Who cares? Well, obviously, this discussion does, but ...
Between the sexual-orientation disputes and the Tagging Wars, labels seem to matter more than anything else to some folks around here, for some reasons I understand and many I don’t.
Almost every queer person I know personally had a period in their life where they at least considered or pursued to some extent an “approved” relationship before eventually figuring out what they really wanted.
Btw, I'm curious as what kind of evidence is the basis for your affirmation that Saijou Nagisa would have been willing to date a boy before this.
Why is labelling people so important to you?
No evidence at all, huh? You just like to imagine her with boys? You want her to be like that, because that's what turns you on?
No surprise, then. It's what I had guessed. Sigh.
It's just a comparison; an analogy.
A bad one that makes no sense to begin with due to the aforementioned fundamental differences between the subjects, even leaving the obvious offensive potential aside. Might as well have been trying to make some kind of point about breathing by comparing it to making sandcastles.
That's a really uncomfortable comparison as it implies that sexuality is a choice you make like eating habits which is just flat out wrong.
Except they didn't imply that at all?
They... kinda did, though? Whether you eat meat or not is an entirely voluntary, conscious choice; sexual orientation... isn't, making the comparison drawn completely nonsensical and meaningless at best and appallingly ignorant at worst.
Not necessarily. You may have to stop eating meat for health reasons.
I'm going to let you in on a secret, non-sexual preferences and choices aren't as arbitrary as you think. Also I've encountered more than a few people who have chosen to express a sexual preference for political reasons. You can argue whether or not that makes it real, my point is all preferences come in varying degree and conviction.
A bad one that makes no sense to begin with due to the aforementioned fundamental differences between the subjects, even leaving the obvious offensive potential aside. Might as well have been trying to make some kind of point about breathing by comparing it to making sandcastles.
Breathing is like making sandcastles. We learn it as kids and it stays with us for the rest of our lives.
There, what's the problem? The point of analogies is to isolate certain characteristics you then make a statement of. When you compare space to rubber you compare something that's utterly different and incomparable, but rubber's flexible, and so's space, and that's what you want to talk about.
Of course on closer examination you'll quickly realize that rubber is not, in fact, in any way like space. But that wasn't the point; the point was to illustrate a specific statement. Nothing more.
Btw, I'm curious as what kind of evidence is the basis for your affirmation that Saijou Nagisa would have been willing to date a boy before this.
Why is labelling people so important to you?
No evidence at all, huh? You just like to imagine her with boys? You want her to be like that, because that's what turns you on?
No surprise, then. It's what I had guessed. Sigh.
And now you're just rambling incoherently, unable to follow the conversation or even read what people are writing. Because I've clearly said nothinh like that, just like nobody was hating on this series unlike what you pretended before. Seems like you just want to pick fights and derail conversations about series that deserve better just for the sake of attention.
Do you need to lie down for a bit? You seem ill.
last edited at Dec 18, 2018 11:28AM
labels seem to matter more than anything else to some folks around here, for some reasons I understand and many I don’t.
Yea same, I never really cared about labels much. I do understand why some people need labels and why it's in our nature to want to label and sort things, but still some people take it to unhealthy extremes...
Maybe this one doesn't deserve a bisexual tag because the boy's been totally forgotten, but it's important to remember that MC is bi. Just because she's in a wlw relationship doesn't make her a lesbian. In fact, both characters seemed perfectly capable of being in mlw relationships before this. You don't stop being bi when you start dating someone. Just like our girls Korra and Asami.
If you want to tag as bi any and all girls who are not completely and utterly incapable of having sex with a boy -- I mean, all the girls who are capable, when the time comes, to close their eyes and think of England -- then 99,9% of the manga in this Reader are stories about bisexuals.
I agree whatever she is bi or not isn't really that important (unless you're one of those people who by default consider bi people unfaithful cheaters who will choose guy as soon as one shows up, so you want to prepare yourself for that possibility), but you're going into extremes. Whatever you like it or not, it is a fact she wanted to confess and date a guy, so unless it will be elaborated on more later, as far as we know, she is capable of being attracted to both guys and girls, which by definition make her bi. So it isn't like they want to call her bi on a whim.
Btw, I'm curious as what kind of evidence is the basis for your affirmation that Saijou Nagisa would have been willing to date a boy before this.
Why is labelling people so important to you?
No evidence at all, huh? You just like to imagine her with boys? You want her to be like that, because that's what turns you on?
No surprise, then. It's what I had guessed. Sigh.
Wow, you really are full of it and quick to look down on others. You were so eager to assume they want to fap to her, without realizing Bugpope wasn't even the one who wrote that original post and has no need to defend it or answer your question.
It's just a comparison; an analogy.
A bad one that makes no sense to begin with due to the aforementioned fundamental differences between the subjects, even leaving the obvious offensive potential aside. Might as well have been trying to make some kind of point about breathing by comparing it to making sandcastles.
Expect the whole point of comparison is to give a easier to understand example of 1 specific aspect of a thing, not saying those 2 things are identical in every way. They did make a bad comparison, but not because they somehow implied that sexuality is the same thing as choosing your diet. They suggested just because you dated guys before, it doesn't mean you're bisexual, if currently you're only dating girls. Sure you can argue she was lesbian all along, but unless it is expended on, from information we have, it is safe to assume she is bi. Just because you currently don't date guys, doesn't mean you magically stopped being attracted to them. random you always write reasonable posts and I tend to agree with you, but this time you really are arguing about wrong thing.
You guys really made a whole bunch of pointless arguments, when this
The author hasn't updated this since august RIP
is way more important and serious matter.
Jeez, and I came wanting to write
I kissed a girl... and I liked it! So only natural thing to do after it is to keep on kissing her! Even if it started from misunderstanding, she is clearly attracted to Nagisa now, so her failed confession is irrelevant at this point. Also her being so aggressive was very hot.
but, you really ruined the thread.
last edited at Dec 18, 2018 11:45AM
First gasp hand holding in the infirmary. Now Touno is the top and Saijou seems to enjoy a little tongue. That went surprisingly quickly. Normally takes at least 18 chapters in most stuff (and I'm happily not complaining).
I think people are also inattentive to the difference between the sexuality of real people, who have an actual psychology and a past (and future) personal history, and fictional characters, especially in relatively sketchy narratives like this one.
That initial confession letter might well be primarily a plot device to set up the later comedy of misunderstanding rather than an expression of the character’s “true” sexual inclinations.
Do we even know what grade these two are in? As I recall the first stages of when people were beginning to “like” each other, I had what I now understand to be varying degrees of “crushes” on an array of things, including guys, girls, and heroic dogs on TV shows.
I assure you that did not later manifest in a zoophiliac identity. (But I still tend to like dogs.)
A bad one that makes no sense to begin with due to the aforementioned fundamental differences between the subjects, even leaving the obvious offensive potential aside. Might as well have been trying to make some kind of point about breathing by comparing it to making sandcastles.
Breathing is like making sandcastles. We learn it as kids and it stays with us for the rest of our lives.
There, what's the problem? The point of analogies is to isolate certain characteristics you then make a statement of. When you compare space to rubber you compare something that's utterly different and incomparable, but rubber's flexible, and so's space, and that's what you want to talk about.
Of course on closer examination you'll quickly realize that rubber is not, in fact, in any way like space. But that wasn't the point; the point was to illustrate a specific statement. Nothing more.
No, they are correct. The vegetarian analogy was flawed regardless of it could be considered offensive or not.
A better analogy would be as follows. Humans are omnivorous creatures since it is our nature that we can eat both meat and vegetable matter. If one then chooses to become vegetarian it does not change the fact that they are still an omnivore because they retain their fundamental underlying nature.
The same is true of being bi sexual which means that a person has a fundamental underlying sexual attraction to both sexes. Even if a bisexual woman then ended up in a monogamous relationship with a same sex partner it doesn't make them a lesbian. It makes them a bisexual that just happens to be choosing to date another woman instead of a guy. Although their behavior has changed their underlying nature has not.
last edited at Dec 18, 2018 12:54PM
including guys, girls, and heroic dogs on TV shows.
Please say it was Underdog. I used to watch that in re-runs before school every morning. Swoooooooon.
including guys, girls, and heroic dogs on TV shows.
Please say it was Underdog. I used to watch that in re-runs before school every morning. Swoooooooon.
I liked Underdog, but using the phrase from the exact time of life I'm talking about, I didn't "LIKE like" Underdog. That was more the live-action hero-canines from yet an older generation, like Lassie and Rin-Tin-Tin.
(See, one male and one female--it's like being pansexual when you have only the vaguest sense of what being "sexual" entails.)
The problem is that we don't know to make a precise definition of lesbian.
Is it a girl who born lesbian or who eventually become a lesbian and what if she never have a physical contact with a guy but always wondered about it? I think that indisputable lesbians cannot exist because of girl's underlying nature, unlike in manga where we may find pure yuri manga without futa , bi, het and even boys.
Well the solution is pretty simple if you are not sure what is it yuri or het (be, futa ...) put them toughener just like you did for this manga , some people will gladly read such a manga the other avoid it.
Overall thank you for adding the bisexuals tag, another frustrated experience avoided.
( sorry for my English )
last edited at Dec 18, 2018 4:11PM
No evidence at all, huh? You just like to imagine her with boys? You want her to be like that, because that's what turns you on?
No surprise, then. It's what I had guessed. Sigh.
And now you're just rambling incoherently, unable to follow the conversation or even read what people are writing. Because I've clearly said nothinh like that, just like nobody was hating on this series unlike what you pretended before. Seems like you just want to pick fights and derail conversations about series that deserve better just for the sake of attention. Do you need to lie down for a bit? You seem ill.
Woohoo! Nice explosion, complete with shit flying everywhere!
I especially like the little notes of hysteria blaring among the insults. Atta way to self-destruct, man.
Nene: 1 -- Bugpope: 0
Nene: 1 -- Bugpope: 0
Considering neither of you realized Bugpope didn't write original post, I'd say it is more Nene: 0 -- Bugpope: over 9000
Wow, you really are full of it and quick to look down on others. You were so eager to assume they want to fap to her, without realizing Bugpope wasn't even the one who wrote that original post and has no need to defend it or answer your question.
And you were so quick to assume I am unable to follow a simple conversation you didn't even realize I'm arguing against a conjecture, not an individual -- and thus it is a matter of no consequence for the sake of my argument whether a supporter of said conjecture is the original author or someone who jumped on the bandwagon.
By the way, are you also of the persuasion that Saijou Nagisa is romantically or sexually interested in boys? I'm asking because, even though you were very quick to take HellAQA's side and attack me, you haven't provided any evidence either. I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to explain when and where our Nagisa showed by her words or actions to have an attraction to the opposite gender. All the replies so far have been personal attacks, no factual proofs or elements of corroboration at all.
Whatever you like it or not, it is a fact she wanted to confess and date a guy, so unless it will be elaborated on more later, as far as we know, she is capable of being attracted to both guys and girls, which by definition make her bi.
I'm not convinced. She wrote that letter to a boy, yes, which means we do have evidence that, unlike Nagisa, she was willing to try heterosexual dating. She wrote that letter, then misplaced it and ended up dating a girl -- and, so far, I haven't detected even a hint of a shadow of a feeling of distress about the mistake. In fact, in her own words: "By the time I got back home, I didn't care about Kobayashi-kun at all. All I could think about was Saijou-san." Seriously? She forgot him in a moment, just like that? No heartache over the boy she's supposed to like? No angst? No brooding? No agonizing over which one to choose? This doesn't read bisexual to me. It reads more like: "Girl thinks she must get boyfriend because societal norm says it's the thing to do, but then finds she's gay and happily casts away the dumb notion."
Tho I do understand (unlike with Nagisa) if, in this case, some readers disagree.
This doesn't read bisexual to me.
Why it bothers you so much? You think you're a real lesbian but sometimes you just want some cock and it's not appearance of bisexuality from your point of view?
Uh. Well, this isn't what I expected would be the subject when I came to make a post. If I may add my two cents, I'll just say that part of the problem stems from what any one person thinks tagging is for. There's (at least) two ways to think of tagging, and both are reasonable.
The first way is to tag with descriptions of the content in a more literal way. This generally requires more tagging and can more make it more troublesome to find things similar to what you want, but can potentially give more granularity in categorization.
The second is tagging based on the story and themes. This makes finding certain kinds of stories more flexible, but has the potential to leave out tags that might be important descriptors to some people.
There isn't an easy solution that would satisfy everyone. Personally I prefer the second method with exceptions for tags that could be considered warnings. For this particular story I believe Yuri by itself is more appropriate than Bisexual either by itself or together with yuri. Outside of the set-up I don't think we've encountered anything that warrants Bisexual. This doesn't mean that the characters are not bi, but rather that (at least so far) it hasn't been a large element of the story. This is as opposed to, say, Ohana Holoholo which has, and very much deserves, both Yuri and Bisexual tags.
I'm not going to say that I have the best idea or anything because obviously that can't be true for everyone, and there's certainly times that require an exception. Just my two cents.
edit: my original comment was going to be that this has escalated much quicker than most manga out there and I am SO in favor of that.
last edited at Dec 18, 2018 7:33PM
This isn't going to be resolved. The arguments are either based on fundamentally different ideas or there is a straight up (lol) failure to reach a consensus in terms of what defines sexual preference.
This will only end in tears... and internet yelling... and snickering.
People just read the Manga and enjoy it.
Whatever the tag is doesn matter.
And for the dumb argument of choices sexuality or born with it.
who cares every person does have a opinion.
If the person is right or not, it's his opinion and just ignore it if u don't like it.... People make 2 much fuss these days for some sh@t
Enjoy the damn Manga dammit!
last edited at Dec 18, 2018 7:48PM
From the manga I learned this is incredibly cute and from the comments I learned Underdog was a bi-curious lesbian. You should learn something new every day.