I honestly live for this discussion thread. Your long theories and opinions are eyeopening and really entertaining to read.

So you just baselessly assume Sayaka isn't actually in love with Touko and also think that talking couldn't resolve that? And what IF the chemistry is there and Sayaka isn't a superficial lesbian who just would go for any girl she feels attractive? What if her love is true and this will hurt her even more? Your "realism" isn't real, it's just a surface view of what a crush is like, completely ignoring everything the manga established.

I'm not baselessly assuming. I'm just saying things are not black and white, especially not for teenagers. That should go without saying really...Now if the chemistry IS there, well, I suppose at least Sayaka got to kiss Touko and enjoy that moment no? That's better than not ever kissing her at all, since she will have to move on and suffer regardless if Touko doesn't love her back. She is the character I like most after Yuu so I would be happy for her. I mean, she would get to make out with her long-time crush AND then move on with no sense of loss, while still remaining friends with her; what else could be better? It's such a good deal it will obviously not become true lol

Maybe we just process crush-like feelings differently. Doesn't mean your way is The Only Way.

Touko kissed Yuu, not the other way around. VERY different. And she didn't let her do it because it felt good or because she found her attractive, like she said herself she didn't feel anything from that. The reason she let Touko do it was because she wanted to see if she could come to feel those special feelings eventually. Also because Yuu has a complex about helping people, and Touko really needed that extended hand. She only started to like it when she developed feelings for Touko (but at that point she needed to deny it to herself).

Pretty sure at various moments Yuu implied (and Touko understood) that she wanted to be kissed because it felt good. Even in the last episode of the anime, Touko jokes that she is perv/naughty because that's what she understood. Do you think Yuu is like Mother Theresa or something? lmao

Your proposal doesn't represent anything good, because you superimpose your own misguided ideas of how this would turn out on the story. Sorry, but your superficial physicality is not how romance works, especially in a fictional medium. So why don't you tone down your homegrown variety of what you think love and relationships are like and instead face the facts of what you are dealing with? ^__^

Looks like I've struck a nerve here. But personally I don't see physicality as superficial, rather it's essential for romance. I'm actually pretty happy that more and more yuri manga/manhwa shows that aspect rather than being all about fake "pure feelings" (whatever that means).

last edited at Oct 30, 2018 12:58PM

I'm not baselessly assuming. I'm just saying things are not black and white, especially not for teenagers. That should go without saying really...Now if the chemistry IS there, well, I suppose at least Sayaka got to kiss Touko and enjoy that moment no? That's better than not ever kissing her at all, since she will have to move on and suffer regardless if Touko doesn't love her back. She is the character I like most after Yuu so I would be happy for her. I mean, she would get to make out with her long-time crush AND then move on with no sense of loss, while still remaining friends with her; what else could be better? It's such a good deal it will obviously not become true lol

Maybe we just process crush-like feelings differently. Doesn't mean your way is The Only Way.

See, that's why I say you are superficial and don't care about the characters. Saying it's better that she kissed her than not doing it for the sake of itself is wrong. It hurts more the further she gets before being rejected, why don't you see that? Sayaka wouldn't see it as a good thing of "At least I kissed her!" when she isn't loved back. It's a pointless thing that only makes her feel even worse about herself.
What do you mean no sense of loss? Are you alright? I'm starting to think you are projecting here.

The whole point I am making is that it's not just a crush. I wonder how you still didn't figure that out...

Pretty sure at various moments Yuu implied (and Touko understood) that she wanted to be kissed because it felt good. Even in the last episode of the anime, Touko jokes that she is perv/naughty because that's what she understood. Do you think Yuu is like Mother Theresa or something? lmao

You seem to be misinterpreting "I didn't dislike it" as "I like it" for some reason. That would expain your skewed view of things. What she meant by that is that she doesn't feel bad about it, to explain why she lets Touko do it without telling her true intentions (which are to use Touko's affection to realize romantic feelings).
Until this ordeal Yuu didn't even consider liking girls, much less finding them attractive. She also absolutely said she didn't feel anything from the kiss. The first time she showed a strong reaction was during the toolshed scene. Which was at a point where she awakened her feelings for Touko already, which puts a kiss in an entirely different perspective.

Looks like I've struck a nerve here. But personally I don't see physicality as superficial, rather it's essential for romance. I'm actually pretty happy that more and more yuri manga/manhwa shows that aspect rather than being all about fake "pure feelings" (whatever that means).

I dislike being called a "romantic idealist" for taking the source material for what it is. That's the only nerve you struck.

You misunderstand. The physical aspect is important. You can't simply disregard the emotional aspect for it however. That is superficial. The physical aspect comes after/with the emotional baggage. Otherwise it is not love, but rather a crush or base desire. If it's just a case of being attracted to an attractive person, then it's hardly worth the Romance tag.
When I refer to your superficial physicality it's stuff like "At least she got a kiss lol" and "She is just attracted to girls, doesn't mean she must want to be with them or be in love with them". This friends with benefits attitude disgusts me. It reeks of someone who doesn't really care or think of the people involved beyond "That's hot".

And to be clear, I'm not necessarily sure that's what you really think. It's just how you appear from the way you write.

^About whether Sayaka would kiss Touko but, I think it's also important to consider if Touko would allow that. I can't imagine her kissing Sayaka. I doubt Nakatani would use this method either.

See, that's why I say you are superficial and don't care about the characters. Saying it's better that she kissed her than not doing it for the sake of itself is wrong. It hurts more the further she gets before being rejected, why don't you see that? Sayaka wouldn't see it as a good thing of "At least I kissed her!" when she isn't loved back. It's a pointless thing that only makes her feel even worse about herself.
What do you mean no sense of loss? Are you alright? I'm starting to think you are projecting here.

The whole point I am making is that it's not just a crush. I wonder how you still didn't figure that out...

By "no sense of loss", I meant if she kinda realized that she misunderstood her feelings and it was just strong friendship + attraction. I am giving the only way out here for her to not suffer. I don't think it would detract from the story, rather it would make it deeper, like showing that people can also misunderstand their own feelings and so on. While providing a happy end for Sayaka and a kissing scene to boot.

Otherwise the ending for Sayaka is going to be so sad. Because if her feelings are so strong as you say, don't you think her simply "settling" for Touko's friendship is a pretty bad ending for her? I'd rather if they broke off the friendship then, it's more realistic and she wouldn't come off as the cliche "loser best friend".

Pretty sure at various moments Yuu implied (and Touko understood) that she wanted to be kissed because it felt good. Even in the last episode of the anime, Touko jokes that she is perv/naughty because that's what she understood. Do you think Yuu is like Mother Theresa or something? lmao

You seem to be misinterpreting "I didn't dislike it" as "I like it" for some reason. That would expain your skewed view of things. What she meant by that is that she doesn't feel bad about it, to explain why she lets Touko do it without telling her true intentions (which are to use Touko's affection to realize romantic feelings).
Until this ordeal Yuu didn't even consider liking girls, much less finding them attractive. She also absolutely said she didn't feel anything from the kiss. The first time she showed a strong reaction was during the toolshed scene. Which was at a point where she awakened her feelings for Touko already, which puts a kiss in an entirely different perspective.

I think the first kiss she didn't feel anything but every other kiss she did. Well, that's how I interpreted it at least. In fact, my interpretation is that because she felt good about the kisses, that triggered her falling in love with Touko (other than generally liking her company as a friend). Kinda like how if you have sex with someone a lot, and you like the sex, it's likely you will fall in love with them. That's even more likely for girls. And that's science so don't tell me I'm wrong because I'm not :P

When I refer to your superficial physicality it's stuff like "At least she got a kiss lol" and "She is just attracted to girls, doesn't mean she must want to be with them or be in love with them". This friends with benefits attitude disgusts me. It reeks of someone who doesn't really care or think of the people involved beyond "That's hot".

I care about the characters involved. But I indeed also think "At least she got a kiss lol" :D

last edited at Oct 30, 2018 2:13PM

^About whether Sayaka would kiss Touko but, I think it's also important to consider if Touko would allow that. I can't imagine her kissing Sayaka. I doubt Nakatani would use this method either.

I hope she won't use it, but it's not unthinkable. Touko is very confused right now and if Sayaka is really determined... thing could happen due to all kinds of circumstances. It's defnitely a brute force method of snapping Touko out of it. Not appreciated tho.

By "no sense of loss", I meant if she kinda realized that she misunderstood her feelings and it was just strong friendship + attraction. I am giving the only way out here for her to not suffer. I don't think it would detract from the story, rather it would make it deeper, like showing that people can also misunderstand their own feelings and so on. While providing a happy end for Sayaka and a kissing scene to boot.

Otherwise the ending for Sayaka is going to be so sad. Because if her feelings are so strong as you say, don't you think her simply "settling" for Touko's friendship is a pretty bad ending for her? I'd rather if they broke off the friendship then, it's more realistic.

It was already predestined to be painful from the start, sorry to say that. But even if she is heartbroken (in case she didn't make peace with this outcome already, which is totally possible and in-character), she can move on eventually. Everyone does.

The issue is that to give her this "happy ending" you apparently perceive, you need to trample on her character and feelings. You are wrapping it in "realism" to make yourself feel better about it.
What is truly realistic in this scenario is not pretty, but your method would only make it worse, because this is not the kind of disconnected shallow situation it would have to be.

I think the first kiss she didn't feel anything but every other kiss she did. Well, that's how I interpreted it at least. In fact, my interpretation is that because she felt good about the kisses, that triggered her falling in love with Touko (other than generally liking her company as a friend). Kinda like how if you have sex with someone a lot, and you like the sex, it's likely you will fall in love with them. That's even more likely for girls. And that's science so don't tell me I'm wrong because I'm not :P

That's... terrible. How about you don't have sex with people you don't like? Jeez, starting to sound exactly like the caricature of the loose and numb person I hoped you weren't.

I care about the characters involved. But I indeed also think "At least she got a kiss lol" :D

Yeah no, that's just you wanting the fanservice you crave over actually caring.

^About whether Sayaka would kiss Touko but, I think it's also important to consider if Touko would allow that. I can't imagine her kissing Sayaka. I doubt Nakatani would use this method either.

I hope she won't use it, but it's not unthinkable. Touko is very confused right now and if Sayaka is really determined... thing could happen due to all kinds of circumstances. It's defnitely a brute force method of snapping Touko out of it. Not appreciated tho.

That's it though. It's a brute force method. It's so indelicate and unsubtle, it just feels cheap. While I have faith that Nakatani could handle it well, it would definitely have less of an emotional impact than most of the other methods that I can think of.

For me, this is the kind of writing a typical yuri manga would use and this isn't a typical yuri.

I just hope that Yuu & Touko can work out this misunderstanding.

Cause Touko definitely has feelings for Yuu, but she tells Yuu not to fall in love with her & is perfectly fine with the ambiguous status of their relationship. This is out of her own self-loathing & self-esteem issues, where Touko believes that she is undeserving of love, but is still more than willing to give it. She is now realizes that her insistence on not being loved has forced Yuu to keep her feelings to herself, & she's ashamed of how much she's hurt Yuu.

And as for Yuu, she definitely has feelings for Touko, but because she Thinks Like a Romance Novel, she is expecting some sort of large overwhelming emotional response instead of the more subdued feelings she does have of just being happier around Touko, she ends up reciprocating Touko's feelings, & it's implied that the reason Yuu felt she couldn't develop feelings for anyone is because of her unrealistic romantic expectations.

Both of them have feelings for each other & both of them misses each other right now, so they need to have a long talk & sort these things out.

last edited at Oct 30, 2018 3:18PM

I think this kissing, etc. issue can only truly be resolved in the post-series doujins:

• "Mr. and Mrs. Student Council: Which One's the Husband?"

• "The Play Within a Play Within a Play"

• "Blooming Into Yuu"

  "You say no one's ever been 'special,' but you're already this wet." or
  "But your body says we're more than 'just friends.' Much, much more."
  Etc.

last edited at Oct 30, 2018 3:17PM

@Blastaar
Why do I find the blacked-over (or should I say redacted?) parts hilarious?

I think this kissing, etc. issue can only truly be resolved in the post-series doujins:

• "Mr. and Mrs. Student Council: Which One's the Husband?"

• "The Play Within a Play Within a Play"

• "Blooming Into Yuu"

  "You say no one's ever been 'special,' but you're already this wet." or
  "But your body says we're more than 'just friends.' Much, much more."
  Etc.

• "Nurse Yuu and her Patient"
• "Getting Steamy in the Bathhouse" I can't think of any more

last edited at Oct 30, 2018 4:44PM

That's... terrible. How about you don't have sex with people you don't like? Jeez, starting to sound exactly like the caricature of the loose and numb person I hoped you weren't.

Er...You can actually have consensual sex with people you like as friends or fellow human beings, treat them very well and not be in love with them. I just don't judge romantic love as an inherently superior expression of sexuality. But by all means, you are free to judge that kind of thought as "terrible" and "numb" I guess.

Regardless, all I did was point out that it's common for people to fall in love due to repeated encounters like this. That's what I find interesting about Bloom Into You, in the sense that, it's the inverted process to how things are usually shown. I think falling in love before you kissed/touched someone or falling in love because you did are just different paths to the same emotion. In cultures with arranged marriages for example, the latter is the norm.

Yeah no, that's just you wanting the fanservice you crave over actually caring.

Great to know you have mind-reading abilities! Never thought I had been talking to Magneto all this time :P

In all seriousness though, you are fun to discuss with :D Hope I'm not pulling your leg too much.

*"Getting Steamy in the Bathhouse"

I must say that I found Touko’s “Yuu . . . is bigger than I thought,” line in the bath at the training camp to be one of the cuter moments of the series.

And kind of the only very slightest hint of the “what two girls do beyond kissing” matter in the series, and that only by the widest stretch of the imagination.

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 10:22AM

• "Getting Steamy in the Bathhouse"

I must say that Touko’s “Yuu . . . is bigger than I thought,” line in the bath at the training camp to be one of the cuter moments of the series.

And kind of the only very slightest hint of the “what two girls do beyond kissing” matter in the series, and that only by the widest stretch of the imagination.

Imagining a "how do girls have sex?" conversation between Touko and Yuu just cracked me up. Maybe... they should get a 'special lesson' from sensei.

last edited at Oct 30, 2018 4:47PM

tries not to laugh

*"Getting Steamy in the Bathhouse"

Shouldn't that be "Getting streamy in the Equipment shed?"

*"Getting Steamy in the Bathhouse"

Shouldn't that be "Getting streamy in the Equipment shed?"

I prefer "Fumbling around in the dark"

Is this a contest on who can make me laugh the most?

Imagining a "how do girls have sex?" conversation between Touko and Yuu just cracked me up. Maybe... they should get a 'special lesson' from sensei.

Foursome Chatting At the Amber Tearoom.

2DK, G-spot, planetarium

"Getting 'wet' at the aquarium"
"New uses for sports equipment"
"Touko makes Yuu see stars"
"Touko and Sayaka double team Yuu"
"Why you should always go back for your pencil case"

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 8:08AM

Is this a contest on who can make me laugh the most?

Blame Blastaar

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 8:06AM

Is this a contest on who can make me laugh the most?

Blame Blastaar

This is all displaced anxiety while waiting for the new chapter to drop.

And I didn’t even know about any of that “you’re already this wet” business until I ended up at Dynasty.

Is this a contest on who can make me laugh the most?

Blame Blastaar

This is all displaced anxiety while waiting for the new chapter to drop.

And I didn’t even know about any of that “you’re already this wet” business until I ended up at Dynasty.

That's the problem with anime and manga; at their best, it's the best medium but, you have to wade through large amounts of crap to find it.