This kind of thing if encouraged will destroy our society's structure.

Seeing this line on a website primarily directed at gay women literature is kind of ironic, don't you think?

i had no idea brazil was ok with incest.................................... wow noice

Their age of consent is also only 14.

Well, I'm BrazilIan and people here aren't "ok" with incest, but I don't think it is a crime punished by law.

So if incest isn't a crime but most people don't approve of it, the only explanation must be that, in this regard at least, people are expected to mind their own business about something that doesn't concern them even if they disapprove of it.

That would never happen in the US.

On one hand it feels strange to see so many people be accepting of incest, on the other hand if there was anywhere to find such people, it's right here.

I've got plenty of family and I never considered banging any of them, but I still just can't find it in me to condemn consensual incest cases because no one is getting hurt.

i had no idea brazil was ok with incest.................................... wow noice

Their age of consent is also only 14.

Well, I'm BrazilIan and people here aren't "ok" with incest, but I don't think it is a crime punished by law.

Remind that USA considers cousins as incest. And here we don't care. People joke about having sex between cousins and talk about it lightly, as it's not that big of a taboo. A soap opera even made a cousin couple once and their whole arc was about how absurd it was that people were against it.

To be fair, I find it pretty weird that incest is a crime anywhere. Punishing people for having a consensual relationship with each other. Sounds like something...
I think in some 50 years, that'll stop being considered wrong.

people are expected to mind their own business about something that doesn't concern them even if they disapprove of it.

Unless you're gay, that is. Politicians and religious people are trying to make everything to take gay rights, even passing a law allowing psychologists to try to "cure" gays, recently.
Incest just isn't a topic, so people don't mind it. People still judge others all the time for things like homosexuality, transsexuality, abortion, etc. I'm pretty sure that if incest ever become a popular topic, people will start being vocal about being against it.

people are expected to mind their own business about something that doesn't concern them even if they disapprove of it.

Unless you're gay, that is. Politicians and religious people are trying to make everything to take gay rights, even passing a law allowing psychologists to try to "cure" gays, recently.

Yes, I was positing an ideal world in which people took their supposed beliefs seriously and not the one we live in where the consensual sexual behavior of other people is seized upon as an opportunity to assert political power and social domination.

You know, that ideal world where if you ask the question, "How does what they do hurt you?" and the answer is "I don't like to think about them doing that," it would be regarded as no answer at all.

...I still can't get a reading out of the mom. What's her relationship with Akira, or what was it? is she interested? Did they bang and then she got on with Akira's brother? Yet again

...I still can't get a reading out of the mom. What's her relationship with Akira, or what was it? is she interested? Did they bang and then she got on with Akira's brother? Yet again

Some facts/assumptions/questions:

• Everybody wants Ayako—young, old, male, female, etc.
• Akira says she would never be worthy to love Ayako—because of something she did, or because Akira’s just not in Ayako’s league?
• Akira is as lesbian as . . . a very lesbian person, and, according to Asuka, at least once made some kind of move on Ayako.
• Ayako holds Akira at arm’s length—because of “what happened,” (see next item) or just because Akira is clearly pushy and annoying?
• Akira says that “what happened” wasn’t Ayako’s fault. Something between the two of them, or about the husband/brother’s death?

Random observation #1: Asuka is experienced at sucking Ayako’s breasts. Just saying.
Random observation #2: currently completely unnecessary = friend’s brother-kun.

Wow, there's a bunch of interesting opinions here, pals.
Like "it will destroy everything" or "disgust for incest is evolutionary or "Science/Jesus [not really different...] said we genetic diversity". 1) there've been entire civilization based on incest. But I didn't review the whole 25+ (!) pages so it's probably been said already. If not, GIYF... 2) If so the 1) wouldn't have been possible. 3) Ah ? Did you hear of marbled crayfishs ? Can live in about any sea whatsoever, numerous, giants, yet, all females clones (parthenogenesis). So much for diversity, huh. Also, mountains gorillas.
Someone said gay rights are threatened in many liberal countries... yeah but haven't they earned it with grotesque shows like Gay Prides ? I can't help but want to puck when seeing what people can make of beautiful natural things, start talking like a priest. Gay people need more Alexander the Great, who was no weak fagot, to be respected.

Also, you can look at examples of countries that had it legalized and how little effect it had, so clearly it's not an issue that "destroys" anything. Take a look at France, for one ... oh ... hum. Wait. They are very French.
French here. What ? French DON'T have sex more than others. They're just talk. But they do have a dirty concept of sex, that's right. Wait, maybe others people too. Any way, French are very incestophobe, I can tell you... I got told I was a monster when I told my sister about my feeling, who told it to the father... well, I was a monster for other reasons so it doesn't matter >_>

last edited at Apr 9, 2018 8:00AM

Someone said gay rights are threatened in many liberal countries... yeah but haven't they earned it with grotesque shows like Gay Prides ? I can't help but want to puck when seeing what people can make of beautiful natural things, start talking like a priest.

And your aesthetic response has any relevance whatsoever to other people's personal lives exactly why?

I see lots of t-shirt slogans and bumper stickers that make me disgusted every day, but then I remember what my old granny used to say:

"Mind your own f*cking business." (Salty granny.)

last edited at Apr 9, 2018 8:13AM

There are people here that use the argument that if you approvegay marriage you are open the door for incest, beastialety, demon summoning and everything forbidden by God.

And I think that if you open the door to having your laws based on values derived from unprovable statements by invisible beings in the sky, you open the door to people sticking their noses into other people's business for no good reason. So we both of us have opinions.

But I very forcefully believe that no one should get gay married in violation of their religious beliefs. Unless they want to.

(Although this conversation is arguably relevant to the theme, it's now leading us away from the story, so I'll stop now.)

Can we all PLEASE accept this one, just one simple thing? This story is about an incest relation ship between mother and daughter. You like it, you stay and read it. You don't like it, stop reading it.
Stop bringing science and random dude on the sky into this.
THIS IS A FICTIONAL MANGA!!!

Can we all PLEASE accept this one, just one simple thing? This story is about an incest relation ship between mother and daughter. You like it, you stay and read it. You don't like it, stop reading it.
Stop bringing science and random dude on the sky into this.
THIS IS A FICTIONAL MANGA!!!

THANK YOU

1) there've been entire civilization based on incest.

Yeah, no. Segments of the ruling class do not equal the entire civilization. The whole point was that they were considered special (usually meaning some degree of divine) and beholden to different sets of rules than the hoi polloi.
Or were just trying to sidestep the usual dynastic headaches by "keeping it in the family" - ask the Spanish Hapsburgs how well that works out long term...

3) Ah ? Did you hear of marbled crayfishs ? Can live in about any sea whatsoever, numerous, giants, yet, all females clones (parthenogenesis). So much for diversity, huh.

Parthenogenesis is overwhelmingly effective for sheer reproduction; rather less so for adaptation which is kind of the major biological selling point of sexual reproduction. (A certain level of diversity is nevertheless sustained by multiple self-replicating "lineages" within the species and the usual random mutations though.) It works fine as long as the circumstances stay stable but the species runs a pretty high risk of being wholesale fucked if there's a major upset in its relevant ecological conditions.
Which would be why species relying solely on parthenogenesis are fairly rare.

Also completely different from the biological driver behind the universal prevalence of behavioral (cultural and psychological for us humans) aversion to consanguinity, which is the accumulation of harmful recessive traits.
The aforementioned Spanish Hapsburgs could tell you a lot about that, too, if they hadn't quite literally inbred themselves unto extinction (which set off a major general European war that ended in a bit of an upset of long-established balances of power, but I digress...).

Also, mountains gorillas.

Hardly the only endangered species with serious inbreeding issues due to severely depleted gene pool and fragmented populations. (Africa alone has only too many examples.) Not quite seeing the relevance...?

'Course, the genetic/biological angle is for obvious reasons irrelevant in the context of a homosexual relationship but eh.

Can we all PLEASE accept this one, just one simple thing? This story is about an incest relation ship between mother and daughter. You like it, you stay and read it. You don't like it, stop reading it.
Stop bringing science and random dude on the sky into this.
THIS IS A FICTIONAL MANGA!!!

^THIS
Please stop mixing reality into a fictional story, it's just making pointless arguments. Unless the author specifically said that this was based on a real life couple, I would think of this as a fiction that I would enjoy as a fiction.

Unless the author specifically said that this was based on a real life couple, I would think of this as a fiction that I would enjoy as a fiction.

But we are able to empathize with fictional characters and they story because we are relate to them as if they were a real persons. If we were continuously aware of them as a fictional characters we wouldn't really care about anything that happens with them.

Inbreed is indeed a problem on long term, but people already pointed that out, so I don't see the point. You don't need to have children to have a relationship, so it's not a problem that the relationship itself happens. And if does, it becomes the couple's problem. As it was said already, if a couple has high chance of having problem with having a child, no one will stop them, but instead they'll be educated.
Also, inbreeding becomes a bigger problem when it happens for multiple generations, so it's not even a reality except if we start to force people to reproduce in family, like royal families did in the past.
Incest is not a threath for society at all, so aside from non-consensual situations, the only argument against it is moral.

And sorry, but saying "it's okay because it's a manga, but in real life is gross" sound like the thing homophobic people say about yuri mangas.

Unless the author specifically said that this was based on a real life couple, I would think of this as a fiction that I would enjoy as a fiction.

But we are able to empathize with fictional characters and they story because we are relate to them as if they were a real persons. If we were continuously aware of them as a fictional characters we wouldn't really care about anything that happens with them.

Thats just one perspective though. Now, granted, it is one that i follow as well, im very big on immersion, but its the exact opposite for some people.

Ive been following a MHA liveblog on tumblr, and one of the asks the guy - who was often complaining about the incredible aggression of a certain character - got was literally "Since when did we start looking at characters like theyre real people?"

For some, the whole idea of treating fiction as anything but is absurd. They mostly like to explore circumstances that are unlikely or impossible to happen in real life through the medium of tightly written stories, well developed worlds, or fleshed out characters.

The biggest example i know of is a certain Danganronpa 2 character. Half the fanbase hates him because he is insane, unlikeable, and pretty vile, the other (obsessively sometimes) love him because he is interesting, mixes things up, and keeps things unpredictable.

Of course there are bound to be exceptions, but thats just my personal experience with these types of people. It depends on your preference.

Wtv posted:

Inbreed is indeed a problem on long term, but people already pointed that out, so I don't see the point. You don't need to have children to have a relationship, so it's not a problem that the relationship itself happens. And if does, it becomes the couple's problem. As it was said already, if a couple has high chance of having problem with having a child, no one will stop them, but instead they'll be educated.
Also, inbreeding becomes a bigger problem when it happens for multiple generations, so it's not even a reality except if we start to force people to reproduce in family, like royal families did in the past.
Incest is not a threath for society at all, so aside from non-consensual situations, the only argument against it is moral.

And sorry, but saying "it's okay because it's a manga, but in real life is gross" sound like the thing homophobic people say about yuri mangas.

Thanks yuri, someone who gets it. They are most likely the ones most aware that falling for your sibling/parent is not something common, but it is their problem so there is no point in other people going out of their way to condemn them for it. Also you can't control your feelings. It isn't like they fall for their family on purpose. And the only real problem is kids. Which mean yuri incest couples are basically like normal yuri couples. For het couple they can simply not have kids, but as Wtv said the real big chance and severity of complications comes from inbreeding for generations. So yea, the main reason people are against incest is moral one. And laws against it etc. most likely exist only half because of those morals and other half because of potential that kids can have some complication. I can't really think of any other reason why most people and laws are against it.

...I still can't get a reading out of the mom. What's her relationship with Akira, or what was it? is she interested? Did they bang and then she got on with Akira's brother? Yet again

did they ever reveal how the father died (i dont remember)? maybe akira believes she indirectly caused her brother's death or something and that makes her think she's not right for the mom despite wanting her. or sad that she couldnt be there for her when she really needed to

as for their relationship, i'd say they were close since akira helped take care of her daughter for her while she was studying/working

last edited at Apr 9, 2018 6:29PM

my brother was in love with my cousin, who gave a shit for him, but nobody in the family was bothered, he also had a big crush in my aunt who was almost the same age as him, nobody gaves a f*ck too, but neither of them returned the feelling (poor thing, his life has so many unrequited love LOL)

I remember too that 2 cousins in summer vacation in my house had a thing and they hooked up, no one bated an eyes too

and the last, between my 15 and 18 years I had a crush in one cousin mine (actually 2, but one was very fast and she was the same as my brother LOL), but she's straight (which I doubt her to be 100%) and married. In this case I was too young to even try something if she was single, besides straight,

I said this much nonsense just to add example to Brazil don't giving too much importance to this kind of relationship generally speaking, cause of course a few bad example are far from being representative of 200 mi of people

sorry bad english, but my laziness prevented me of being in a normal position to type

last edited at Apr 9, 2018 9:26PM

my brother was in love with my cousin, who gave a shit for him, but nobody in the family was bothered, he also had a big crush in my aunt who was almost the same age as him, nobody gaves a f*ck too, but neither of them returned the feelling (poor thing, his life has so many unrequited love LOL)

I remember too that 2 cousins in summer vacation in my house had a thing and they hooked up, no one bated an eyes too

and the last between my 15 and 18 years I had a crush in one cousin mine (actually 2, but one was very fast and she was the same as my brother LOL), but she's straight (which I doubt her to be 100%) and married. In this case I was too young to even try something if she was single, besides straight,

I said this much nonsense just to add example to Brazil don't giving too much importance to this kind of relationship generally speaking, cause of course a few bad example are far from being representative of 200 mi of people

sorry bad english, but my laziness prevented me of being in a normal position to type

but a direct relative like parents and siblings is something I'd never do, but would not judge too, with every sides consensus, I think ALMOST everything is allowed

last edited at Apr 9, 2018 9:25PM

About the story itself, I was a little bit cringey and smiley at the same time, with both story and artwork,but now I'm just smileey

thanks for the update

Akira is the best character in this story o_o

It's not like I didn't know your arguments before, Random. Of course, since they are the doxa. If you're interested following this discussion (and I hope you do and are not certain to hold the truth >_>), contact me at 00120260 at gmail dot com.
Just saying this:

And your aesthetic response has any relevance whatsoever to other people's personal lives exactly why? [...] "Mind your own f*cking business." (Salty granny.)
Yeah, at home. That's why you actually can't do EVERYTHING legal at home, in public. I don't think it's so abnormal to care about what becomes public life (??).

I'm honestly at a loss of word seeing that people may root for incest in fiction, but in fiction only. mean, I just don't understand the, hum, psychological mechanism :-? I love bloody horror film, but it's not "pretty" even in fiction.

In fiction the audience is typically privy to the whole process of the affection emerging, such as here, and can duly draw informed conclusions of the people involved and their motivations. IRL we do not have that luxury and would normally know next to nothing about the people involved and must default to (generally negative) assumptions - plus let's be honest here, people are generally rather more lenient and flexible about people they know than of complete strangers.

There's also the uncomfortable detail that IRL such parent-child relations in particular are often anything but wholesome and healthy and instead rather tend to fall into the category of abusive...

Also recall that most people can readily compartementalize fiction and reality. It's the same deal as with charismatic but deeply flawed characters who make for a fascinating story but whose likes you'd most likely avoid like the Plague IRL because they're plain bad news. Well-written "villain protagonists" like the eponymous narcissistic sociopath in the classic opera Don Giovanni are a good example.