TL;DR What are your thoughts on train?

Nice eye! Unfortunately, Makoto Shinkai made me hate trains.

Trains as symbols can mean a lot:

• Train tracks separate two people; usually used for bad endings or star-crossed lovers. In the Chapter 2 case, it is used to separate them from the others/the outside world. This means that the Touko that kissed Yuu is her own self and not the one she created to be like her sister.

• Passing trains usually indicate passage of time in an otherwise still moment. In the Yuu-Touko case, it seems to indicate that Touko is basically living in stopped time while the outside continues on. Also, the river scene is also quite meaningful. Rivers are usually related to the underworld due to various legends about it around the world. And heroes do come and go out to the underworld for their own loved ones. Here, Touko is basically in her own personal underworld, of which she cannot move out. Yuu crossing the river to her and staying, denotes her wish to accompany her, regardless of her situation.

• Trains in particular also denotes progress. In Chapter 23, it is related to the river scene and their relationship at this point. In case of the latest chapter, they are moving together to a certain destination, but changing trains also means changing the destination as well.

last edited at Jul 29, 2017 12:12PM

I feel like there isn't enough praise for this, though it does get a lot, even still.
It's just superb, a cut above the rest.
Hope Natakani gets to start writing another story as soon as this is over.

wow 2000 fucking comments, never seen anything else in here with quite these numbers, pretty nice to see so many people enjoy/discuss it. The chapter feels nice as always but man am i a little tense, i wanna see what happens next sooo bad.

^2000 comments is nothing compared to What Does The Fox Say comment section. It's over 10000!

I feel like there isn't enough praise for this, though it does get a lot, even still.
It's just superb, a cut above the rest.
Hope Natakani gets to start writing another story as soon as this is over.

It doesn't get enough praise on the West. But in Japan it is the most popular yuri manga. Even then it still deserves more people reading other than yuri fans, and being published on Dengeki sure helps. A good anime adaptation would really help a lot.

eel on page 18

The recurring trains definitely add to the story's oddly unsettling subtext. As the feelings of the protagonists get more aligned, it looks like their relationship could be getting less emotionally fraught, but there's also the possibility of an impending trainwreck (at least figuratively if not literally).

TL;DR What are your thoughts on train?

Nice eye! Unfortunately, Makoto Shinkai made me hate trains.

Y-you don't like trains? I've only watched 2 of his movies so far, but yeh, train imageries everywhere. Thanks for the insights, they make lots of sense!

TL;DR What are your thoughts on train?

Nice eye! Unfortunately, Makoto Shinkai made me hate trains.

Trains as symbols can mean a lot:

I've been interested in the symbolism of trains for quite some time, but always found this topic woefully underexplored. :(

I'd argue the relationship has always been a trainwreck since it was founded on being one sided and the fact that Touko stubbornly pretends to be a version of her sister that never existed in the first place.

You're right that it's always potentially been a train wreck, but I'd save that label for when the final damage actually occurs (assuming it does). That initial set-up ("Let me love you even if you don't love me") certainly is weird and unsettling but not so obviously toxic; it's the shift to "I can love you only if you don't love me" that's the real dysfunctional move. At the start both Touko and Yuu in their own ways are emotionally locked down and static, and the "love without being loved" dynamic could be seen as emotional practice by two beginners. But by demanding that Yuu stay that way, Touko is insisting that Yuu put herself in the same straitjacket she's in. It's no accident that Yuu realizes this with that train roaring past in the background.

last edited at Jul 29, 2017 1:49PM

Why do I have a feeling the ending is gonna be a bad or bitter sweet one?
It would fit in with the story but I kinda want a happy one. I just love these two so much that I even bought the seven seas translation, along with Kase-san.

That initial set-up ("Let me love you even if you don't love me") certainly is weird and unsettling but not so obviously toxic; it's the shift to "I can love you only if you don't love me" that's the real dysfunctional move.

Honestly, it is this aspect that had me seriously hooked to this series. Not only is it quite unique, it also has a really wide potential. This can go into angsty drama, or a heartfelt open romance, and anything in between. Touko certainly has somewhat fucked up view on love and life goals, thanks to all that effort to emulate her sister, but what sets her apart, at least for me, from similar characters, is that she also exhibits the capability for self-analysis. When confronted with information that does not fit her world view, she does not dismiss it, as happened when she found out about her sister. So, I have high hopes she will not outright refuse Yuu, at least not on a permanent basis.

This was a nice 'calm before the storm' chapter, with that resolve Yuu exhibited at the end, the current state of affairs is likely to go through turbulent changes in the near future. I really liked it. The feels in this one are great.

last edited at Jul 29, 2017 2:20PM

Dunno if you know it by now since it's p obvious, but I'm a huge Yuu fan. So here, have a Yuu.

Dunno if you know it by now since it's p obvious, but I'm a huge Yuu fan. So here, have a Yuu.

It's quite good,did you do it?

.....Could you make a Sayaka too?
Jk unless you want to xdxd

last edited at Jul 29, 2017 2:20PM

It's quite good,did you do it?

.....Could you make a Sayaka too?
Jk unless you want to xdxd

Hmmmmmmm... We'll see about that lol No promises tho.

This can go into angsty drama, or a heartfelt open romance, and anything in between.

Totally agree with this, and that may partly be where the reader unease comes from. The title seems to promise that the characters will end up together, but for long stretches it's hard to see exactly how they can ever get there. Touko has always needed to do something, and now she's clearly being positioned to do that something, but exactly what she'll end up doing I have hopes but no real idea.

(I'll give $50 for someone to break into Koyomi's house and get us an advance look at that revised play script.)

last edited at Jul 29, 2017 2:47PM

This can go into angsty drama, or a heartfelt open romance, and anything in between.

Totally agree with this, and that may partly be where the reader unease comes from. The title seems to promise that the characters will end up together, but for long stretches it's hard to see exactly how they can ever get there. Touko has always needed to do something, and now she's clearly being positioned to do that something, but exactly what she'll end up doing I have hopes but no real idea.

(I'll give $50 for someone to break into Koyomi's house and get us an advance look at that revised play script.)

I would, but you gotta pay for my airplane ticket

TL;DR What are your thoughts on train?

Nice eye! Unfortunately, Makoto Shinkai made me hate trains.

Shinkai's the first thing I think about when someone brings up trains in a discussion about anything Japanese. It's like a trigger.

I think he loves power lines too.

The title seems to promise that the characters will end up together, but for long stretches it's hard to see exactly how they can ever get there.

The title doesn't really promise that they'll get together. But it does seem to promise that Touko will overcome her identity problem. "Eventually, [no subject] will become you" & "Bloom into you". I posted one interpretation earlier that "you" means "oneself" due to the inherent lack of subject in both the official titles given by Nakatani herself. You can see a more universal coming-of-age theme coming through with this interpretation, so Touko might be able to find herself eventually.

I've read another interpretation where someone points out the use of "kimi" is how Touko addresses Yuu, so they suggest that the title refers to Touko eventually becoming more like Yuu, who is essentially gentle, kind, patient, has lots of self-control, & above all, mature. I think it's an interesting interpretation since Touko's characterization has been like that of a child. Gonna go on another stupid ramble here, but I absolutely love the tunnel scene in this chap. Aside from the fact that it looks gorgeous, I also love how the sequence plays out with Touko being lost for a moment there (like a kid) then Yuu grabbed her hand & guided her through the beautiful tunnel. But yeah, the latter interpretation zones into Touko's coming of age specifically.

Touko overcoming her problem doesn't necessarily promise that they'll get together though since some ppl, & even Yuu herself in this chap, have been bringing up the question of whether Touko's feelings for Yuu are genuine love or just fleeting infatuation. Personally, I still stand on the view that Touko's feelings have grown to be more genuine over the course of the story, it's just still misguided atm & her overcoming her problem will be the necessary step for her to come to embrace these feelings. But I agree that series can go either way at this point.

Ya there is no way those matching phone straps don't become a issue later. They are definitely going be noticed especially by Sayaka if she gets a chance to see them. I could even see the other boy on the student counsel (forget his name) seeing them and making a joke about are they dating now and making things awkward.

I love the symbolism/word play in the last few pages. Touko wishing things could go on forever. Yuu thinking she wouldn't mind letting things stay the same and let Touko stay on the safe path she has created for herself. But then Yuu knowing she can't and that she has to change the path Touko is taking.

last edited at Jul 29, 2017 5:31PM

this can't go on forever.

Well, fudge.

what a cute aquarium date :3

Now I want to go to aquarium OvO

Alao just fasten the pace a little! This is slow even compared to almost every manga I read!

Yuu, who is essentially gentle, kind, patient, has lots of self-control, & above all, mature.

All true, and yet I would argue that Yuu has a fair amount of growing up to do as well. Being someone who "always does what anyone asks" is not an entirely positive thing. Maybe it's that seeing herself that way, as she does, allows her to deflect ownership of her own decisions and then lament that other people aren't being "fair." Even before she meets Touko she claims that she was "manipulated" by her homeroom teacher into checking out the student council when he simply made a suggestion, to which she had responded with some interest (a fact which she then admits).

Yet another thing that keeps me, as a reader, a bit off balance with this story is that we can't always trust Yuu's inner thoughts. It's extremely common in yuri manga to have scenes where characters aren't being forthright about something, then as they walk away or in the next scene we hear what they're really thinking; those thoughts are usually presented as the real deal. But, especially in the earlier sections, Yuu often will think things that we can tell aren't true, at least not completely. She'll say things like, "I'm just being soft-hearted," or "anyone would have done what I did," or "she's not being fair," when we can see that she's not exactly lying, but is basically spinning her own decisions to herself.

So I think there's some blooming to be done (and in fact is well under way) from Yuu's end as well as Touko's.

Ch24=cute date! ^_^