nightblade96 posted:

i thought the general rule is it's not yuri if there's a penis involved

did I miss something?

Yes, entire existence of people who are born with wrong gender.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 5:56AM

It wouldn't change anything immediately, but it'd have dynasty take a stance and show that they consider trans women to be women rather than "futanari". Progress is made by small steps like that.

Fortunately, dynasty already consider trans women to be women and yuri. But they are also simultaneously committed to preserving the futa tag as the default (unless manga is explicitly trans) interpretation of women with penises, in order to prevent fetish porny stuff from being labeled transgender. The drawbacks of this policy have been noted.

Well, is You identifying as a male or as a female in there??

What gender was he/she assigned at birth?

This is pretty confusing.

If this doujin is indeed transgender, and You has a dick, then it means that You is a trans male. Because You Watanabe is a girl in the original.

So it's het, not yuri. And you all are fighting the wrong fight.

Or I didn't get enough sleep and my mind is foggy. Either or.

It wouldn't change anything immediately, but it'd have dynasty take a stance and show that they consider trans women to be women rather than "futanari". Progress is made by small steps like that.

Fortunately, dynasty already consider trans women to be women and yuri. But they are also simultaneously committed to preserving the futa tag as the default (unless manga is explicitly trans) interpretation of women with penises, in order to prevent fetish porny stuff from being labeled transgender. The drawbacks of this policy have been noted.

The latter point is why this entire thread is somewhat ridiculous, because at no point in this manga is a penis even depicted. There isn't even a NSFW tag on the doujin, and no real reason to tag it with "futanari".

It's a yuri manga with a (possibly, it's honestly not even that obvious) trans woman You, and it'd be neat if the tags represented that, rather than used the "futanari" one.

Nya-chan posted:

Well, is You identifying as a male or as a female in there??

What gender was he/she assigned at birth?

This is pretty confusing.

If this doujin is indeed transgender, and You has a dick, then it means that You is a trans male. Because You Watanabe is a girl in the original.

So it's het, not yuri. And you all are fighting the wrong fight.

Or I didn't get enough sleep and my mind is foggy. Either or.

You are sleep.

If You is originally a woman and in this doujin has a dick but still present herself as woman than she is trans female. And usually when doujins make characters be transgender, they still identify as the gender from the show, so again, You has a dick because she was born male but identify as a female. And my prove she is identify as a female is because older women calls her a girl and she doesn't correct her. If she was male either trans or not, she would correct her, unless she didn't want to correct her, because she wanted to be seen as a girl.

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT YOU IS A TRANS WOMAN? A pre-op one at that.

I was under the impression that the You here is a trans male.

This whole discussion is dumb. People are grasping at straws here.

The fact that he/she didn't correct the woman but they didn't even discuss the fact she has a penis once in the hotel makes this very illogical and doesn't prove anything.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:09AM

So you can say that every het doujin is yuri as long you argue that the guy identifies as a woman? what

If it's biologically a male it shouldn't be yuri.

If there's both penis and vagina then it's futanari

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:06AM

So you can say that every het doujin is yuri as long you argue that the guy identifies as a woman? what

If it's biologically a male it shouldn't be yuri.

This is a dumb argument, because the men in those doujins clearly don't identify or get identified as women. It's completely seperate from a transgendered character.

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT YOU IS A TRANS WOMAN? A pre-op one at that.

I was under the impression that the You here is a trans male.

This whole discussion is dumb. People are grasping at straws here.

The fact that he/she didn't correct the woman but they didn't even discuss the fact she has a penis once in the hotel makes this very illogical and doesn't prove anything.

Exactly, it is clear that You in this manga identifies as a woman, and is identified as one by the older woman. Therefore it's clearly yuri, right?

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:11AM

How can it be yuri if it's heterosexual sexual intercourse between a biological male and a biological female

Sexual identification is fine and all but bending everyone else to your own viewpoint is just selfish

How can it be yuri if it's heterosexual sexual intercourse between a biological male and a biological female

Sexual identification is fine and all but bending everyone else to your own viewpoint is just selfish

I wonder if you are even aware of the irony here yourself...

It's not heterosexual sexual intercourse. It's two women, who identify as women, flirting and having sex, so it's a lesbian relationship. It's yuri.

After thinking a bit, she can't be a transmale (a real life one), because the "penis" wouldn't work the way it's hinted it does here. Basic knowledge about post-op transmales.

But then, it's not clear what she identifies as.

She responds to being called a girl, but doesn't seem to have problems with using her male genitals to have sex. Which seem odd for a trans woman. Everyone is different, but when you identify as a woman, your male genitals become a reminder of your predicament.

So, maybe futanari isn't that much off the mark. I dunno.

For anyone sincerely confused about semantics of transgender tags (probably just Nya-chan): You is clearly and unambiguously both presenting, performing, and claiming womanhood. There is nothing to indicate she identifies as a man. Thus, she's a woman. As a woman with a penis, she could choose to identify as intersex, transgender, genderqueer, ect. For the sake of tagging and utility, gender identity that subverts 'normal' expectations of genitia/sex is labeled transgender, which functions in this context as an umbrella term for a variety of queered bodies.

Edit: To clarify, obviously you can still present as masculine and be a woman. I just mean in this case its exceptionally unambiguous.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:19AM

I'd rather label her as "intersex", because she has features of both genders, it seems ordinary in that "world", and she seems to be okay with that.

Like futanaries incidentally.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:23AM

I'd rather label her as "intersex", because she has features of both genders, it seems ordinary in that "world", and she seems to be okay with that.

Like futanaries incidentally.

I realize you'd rather label her as intersex, but in the doujin itself, You identifies as a woman and is refered to as such, and there is no visible depiction of her genitalia for you to make any of these claims.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:27AM

meanmachinery posted:

I'd rather label her as "intersex", because she has features of both genders, it seems ordinary in that "world", and she seems to be okay with that.

Like futanaries incidentally.

I realize you'd rather label her as intersex, but in the doujin itself, You identifies as a woman and is refered to as such, and there is no visible depiction of her genitalia for you to make any of these claims.

I'm not convinced she identifies as anything.

If she doesn't react at being called a girl, it's maybe because it's technically right. If someone had called her a boy and she had corrected them, I'd be convinced.

And the fact that the office lady doesn't show any reaction to the fact she's being boned by a girl with a dick is a hint that this situation isn't uncommon in that "world" so it's perfectly possible that there's a third gender that sports both sets of genitalia so she not a male, not a woman, but this third thing.

You and lots of people are adamant she's a woman so it's yuri.

But there's just not enough material to prove it without a doubt.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:46AM

Like futanaries incidentally.

Cute. Only unlike futanaries, they're not incredibly stigmatized in this community and banned from being considered yuri and don't make any lesbian women with penises reading it feel like gross stains on yuri.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 6:36AM

Seriously, did this thread woke up all transphobic people on dynasty that now wants to argue something we already spend 3 pages establishing and agreeing on ending conversation on that topic?

nightblade96 posted:

How can it be yuri if it's heterosexual sexual intercourse between a biological male and a biological female

Accidentally we don't know if You is biologically male or not in this story because it isn't explicitly show and there are people arguing there was no "heterosexual intercourse". Still in case of trans character there can be "heterosexual" intercourse while it still counts as yuri, because that is what pre-operation trans person has and if they choose to use it, it is their own will. And yes, for the most part having a dick is a depressing thing for a trans, but there are different degree of dysphoria so some don't mind it as much and probably would be ok with using it.

Sexual identification is fine and all but bending everyone else to your own viewpoint is just selfish

The thing it isn't just their viewpoint. That is a established fact. It is rare and happens for less than 1% of all people, but some are born with biological body that doesn't match their gender identity which can be diagnosed by doctors. Any attempts to try to help them "change" or convince them to be happy with their body never worked out hence the only option left was to try doing the opposite. Changing their biological body to gender they identity as, and guess what, it actually works and let trans people get ride of feeling of dysphoria towards their body. So no, it isn't simply their whims but they are actually a rare case of someone of 1 gender being born with other. Basically they win a rare disease on a lottery and you still choose to insult them. It is like making fun of people with terminal illness.

nightblade96 posted:

So you can say that every het doujin is yuri as long you argue that the guy identifies as a woman? what

But nobody argues that because there is no need to when neither of characters shows any signs of being unhappy with their gender. The problem is when there are hints at least 1 of the characters are trans who, people like you, insist don't count as female, because she still has a dick so obviously she is male then.

If there's both penis and vagina then it's futanari

And again, the entire issue is that in this case it isn't clear from context because you can't see what You have and only thing we have is context of the story and what author said. And as already was made clear, the context of the story can be interpreted in different ways. Doesn't change the fact that either transgender character or futanari character considering themselves female and having sex with other female is a lesbian sex hence it is yuri.

Just a reminder transgender x female isn't yuri.

Pretty sure this was a troll attempting to restart the conversation.

We need a survey. Gotta ask futanari persons how they self-identify.

Oh wait...

Doesn't change the fact that either transgender character or futanari character considering themselves female and having sex with other female is a lesbian sex hence it is yuri.

Yeah no I'm going to have to disagree, Doesn't matter if they think they're female or not. If they have male genitals then it's not yuri.

Just a reminder transgender x female isn't yuri.

Pretty sure this was a troll attempting to restart the conversation.

Judging from the two posts above me, it's pretty clear that transphobia exists on dynasty, and that the tags shouldn't be used to encourage them.

It's all about preference.

Haha definitely a rewarding self-exploration trip there You.

Just a reminder transgender x female isn't yuri.

Pretty sure this was a troll attempting to restart the conversation.

Judging from the two posts above me, it's pretty clear that transphobia exists on dynasty, and that the tags shouldn't be used to encourage them.

Not denying that at all. Just pointing out that the conversation seemed to have been laid to rest till this remark was made.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 9:07AM

People sticking a transphobic label to anyone who disagree with their take on this story that You is obligatory female, are starting to grate on my nerves.

Throwing the transphobic word around like there's no tomorrow doesn't make it true. I'm starting to feel offended, because the idea that I'd consider a transwoman as anything else than a woman can't be further from my mindset. What counts is how you identify yourself as. If You said "I'm a girl", I'd be all for tagging it yuri, even if she had boobs and a 9 inches dick.

But the You character in this is not identified as anything.

Office lady calls her "girl in the cap" (though I don't even know if "girl" is in the original) when calling from behind. That's the only hint we have. It's very tenuous, but the You character doesn't deny it. It would be enough in any other circumstances.

But then, the whole sex scene, with the missionary position and the "let it all out" comes into play and it goes awry from there, because the lack of reaction from the office lady at this way of making love shows that's something she expected, or isn't surprised by.

I can only conclude that You is "something else" and we don't know what they identify as, but it's common in that world.

Intersex or futa, I don't know (and I don't care).

But I'm not convinced the You here is a woman or identifies as such. So, at this point, if I had to tag it, I'd put futanari and leave out both yuri and transgender.

Because in transgender, there's "trans". Meaning a change from point A to point B. And there's no indication whatsoever that You is changing. Except for losing their virginity.

And if transgender people in Dynasty want to find stories to relate to, I'm sure there's more than enough here already.

last edited at Apr 15, 2017 9:15AM

A cis person telling trans people not to accuse others of transphobia is a bad fucking look.

Some trans girls are fine with their genitals. Others use their genitals for sex even when they don't want them.

A world where people don't assume genitals based on gender isn't reality, but neither are worlds where lesbian romance is the default or the norm and those stories still exist. So saying that You can't be a girl or whatever the hell you're trying to imply just cuz the person she slept with didn't react is nonsense.

You're looking for an excuse to not parse You as a girl in this doujin simply because of her genitals and yeah that's kind of super gross? You might as well say literally every yuri doujin where a girl doesn't say the line, "I'm a girl," is actually het because well we don't know how she identifies.

Also your claim that there's "more than enough" stories for trans people to relate to is frankly bullshit. Horseshit. Asinine. Dipshittery. Assheadedness. Whatever you want to call it. Apart from the fact that there's hardly any manga with trans characters that don't treat those characters as a joke, to say there's more than enough for us well then you might as well say there's more than enough yuri. You have all the yuri you need you don't need to look for any more. If anyone said that they'd be as wrong as you are now.