Oh yeah, I meant in the story. The grandfather saw them already if I remember correctly but I may be wrong about that. Matsuri also knows and now just kinda deals with it now I guess. Yuzu seems like the only one to make a big deal out of it.

I mean, being step siblings isn't even a problem. The whole homosexuality thng would probably lead to more problems with the parents.
I don't know how relationships between step siblings are handled in Japan though.

Well, I already read chapter 16 and now I'm gonna feel really, really smug, cross my arms, smirk and say this: I told you! I told you guys right when she first appeared that Sara is gonna end up having exactly THAT role! Ha! And that's one in the face of everyone, who told me I was wrong back then! :D That is all.

Where is this post you speak of so that I may read this, "told you so"??

With my slow ass internet, I'm way too lazy to search, honestly. It should be somewhere on the previous 15 pages of this discussion thread. A post in which I basically said I don't believe that Sara and Mei are seriously gonna end up together and that Sara will probably be more of a catalyst to finally bring Mei and Yuzu closer together.

last edited at May 28, 2015 10:32AM

Did anyone really thought that Mei and the this girl who came out of nowhere would ever be a real thing ? It's citrus we are talking about, it is obviously cheap drama to keep the audience captivated. It's not like any other things than Mei/Yuzu ending would ever happen

last edited at May 28, 2015 10:40AM

Oh yeah, I meant in the story. The grandfather saw them already if I remember correctly but I may be wrong about that. Matsuri also knows and now just kinda deals with it now I guess. Yuzu seems like the only one to make a big deal out of it.

I mean, being step siblings isn't even a problem. The whole homosexuality thng would probably lead to more problems with the parents.
I don't know how relationships between step siblings are handled in Japan though.

I see what you mean, but I don't think it's that simple when applied XD
Remember grandfather saw them and became furius. And god knows what Mei told him to make him forget about it. Or maybe he wanted to forget too, that his grandaughter did something like that. But if Mei was really dating Yuzu, I don't think he would be happy. Definetely in the beggining. It wouldn't be a surprise at all if he tried to make Mei marry a man too.

People were talking about how the story will end. I think that the story doesn't necessery end when the characters get in a relationship with each other. There is still much potential to this (like one example with Mei's grandad)
Matsuri could just be in the daily story not like an antagonist (that issue is resolved) but maybe adding some spice into it? You know, those side characters that make the story more interesting.
Also, Saburo Uta's style is to add new characters, make a drama out of it, and then resolve it. Maybe she tries to expand the story by this way? All I am saying is, there are some ways for the manga to be longer, and without new characters coming and going all the time.
And by the looks of the new chapter, it could be an indication that there is some potential for the manga to head this diretion too.

last edited at May 28, 2015 10:45AM

I really don't think that characters accepting Mei and Yuzu as a couple is the problem, unlike most real life situations. They are in the enviable position to live together, date, or do pretty much anything short of public displays of affection without anyone thinking badly of it. They're step sisters, so being together isn't really unnatural to an observer, as long as they keep their intimacy confined to private spaces (which they haven't totally done, admittedly). As for the chairman, I'm sure Mei could've told him that she got mad and accidentally tore Yuzu's blouse open in the scuffle, which isn't entirely untrue and would put the matter to rest with him.

IIRC lesbianism among schoolgirls is not frowned upon, but lesbian relationship among adults is seen as immature in Japan. Not hated, just something you grow out of.
Is there someone in the know (been to Japan or talked to people) who knows what they think about incest?

If it gets even past 5 volumes, wow, that would be a miracle. Most yuri runs don't even last more than 2-3 volumes, and sometimes, they do not reach completion.

Chapter 16 marks the end of Volume 4 and each volume is 4 chapters long. So I think is very unlikely for the story to wrap up on just four chapters.

I really don't think that characters accepting Mei and Yuzu as a couple is the problem, unlike most real life situations. They are in the enviable position to live together, date, or do pretty much anything short of public displays of affection without anyone thinking badly of it. They're step sisters, so being together isn't really unnatural to an observer, as long as they keep their intimacy confined to private spaces (which they haven't totally done, admittedly). As for the chairman, I'm sure Mei could've told him that she got mad and accidentally tore Yuzu's blouse open in the scuffle, which isn't entirely untrue and would put the matter to rest with him.

I dissagree on the accepting thing. Maybe their friends would, but their familly no. At least not in the beggining. Story could very easily be explored on that way(drama upon their relationship).
Also, what if Harumin's sister will play that part now? Maybe it's not a coinsidence that author brought her in manga now, that it seems like they will start dating. Why wouldn't she get her earlier if she doesn't play that part? Would be interesting to see a drama non related to love trianglesbut based on real relationship drama

It would be sad if story ends just when they confess to each other and confirm they are dating after all of those failed threesomes lol. We would be left with too many plot holes and unexplored sides.
But that's just my opinion on how the story could develop more (more chapters or volumes) rather than just adding new new characters (who are actually interesting) in an attempt to expand it.

If it gets even past 5 volumes, wow, that would be a miracle. Most yuri runs don't even last more than 2-3 volumes, and sometimes, they do not reach completion.

Chapter 16 marks the end of Volume 4 and each volume is 4 chapters long. So I think is very unlikely for the story to wrap up on just four chapters.

I think it could, at a fast pace,I mean the twin sisters are..hum 2 chapters?

I think author would like to show us a bit of dating,some "carefree" dating,well I don't even think that's possible,but you know,some happy moments , please :3

IIRC lesbianism among schoolgirls is not frowned upon, but lesbian relationship among adults is seen as immature in Japan. Not hated, just something you grow out of.
Is there someone in the know (been to Japan or talked to people) who knows what they think about incest?

I have family in Japan and visit pretty frequently. Incest isn't accepted any more than it is in America, but since it's a tightly-knit society, very genetically pure, that was fairly isolated up until WWII, the idea of falling in love with a cousin or half-sibling often finds its way into literature and other media. Actually, marrying a cousin isn't seen as that scandalous, but siblings would be out of the question, even if it's fairly prevalent as an erotic fantasy.

But Citrus dodges that problem with them being step siblings, and if this were real life, once Yuzu and Mei got out of their house as adults, the sibling obstacle would basically be a non-issue. Like you mentioned, lesbianism would be more of a problem than the pseudo-sibling thing, unless they were truly blood relatives. Your perception is pretty accurate -- it's seen as irresponsible and childish, not morally wrong per se.

So at least Citrus is marginally more realistic than, say, the Candy Boy ONA that depicts twin sisters in a fairly open, care-free romance. But then again, that was fluff directed and written by a male, mostly for a male target audience.

On a related topic, marriage is at an all-time low while divorce is at an all-time high. Approximately half of all Japanese women under 30 have no plans to marry and don't know if they ever will. It's so serious that the government has had to address it as a societal crisis, but there's not much the government can do to control it. Homosexuality has also been on a rapid incline for both males and females, but same-sex marriage has not been legalized.

last edited at May 28, 2015 12:51PM

Thanks Kadamon!

This may go without saying, but the West's biggest issue with homosexuality is religion, since all of the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) condemn it. In Japan, it's more of a sociological issue because they're focused on contributing to society in a well-oiled business machine -- graduate high school, attend a good college and make your way up the corporate chain (for men), or stay at home and support your hard-working salaryman (for women). It's all about structure and conforming to those standards. Strong professional women may be idealized a bit more now, but they're still not quite as accepted as they are in the West.

As far as religion goes in Japan, Buddhism is technically a religion without an almighty "God", and it's more about traditional ceremony and philosophy than anything else. Homosexuality has been a prevalent part of Japanese society that goes back to male aids to samurai (or sometimes fellow samurai) offering them physical companionship as a part of the same social class. The same happened between geishas and aids to princesses and such. And of course, males often portrayed women in stage plays, making themselves objects of desire for the viewing public.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Point is, homosexuality on a superficial level is accepted, but it doesn't preclude one's responsibility to society. As much as I love Japanese culture, modern society is admittedly materialistic and superficial, and many relationships form out of convenience or personal advancement. Genuine love seems surprisingly rare, and that suppression makes genres like yuri much more alluring to Japanese audiences.

last edited at May 28, 2015 1:59PM

Holy goddess Madoka O.O
So many comments lmao be record here in Dynasty scans lmao

I dissagree on the accepting thing. Maybe their friends would, but their familly no.

I was suggesting that their family doesn't need to know, at least not that they're explicitly "dating". It would be pretty easy to hide, considering their mom even gave them a bed to sleep in together. From her perspective, she'd just be happy that her two daughters were getting along so well. But knowing how they've behaved so far, keeping the intimacy behind closed doors is probably easier said than done...

This may go without saying, but the West's biggest issue with homosexuality is religion, since all of the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) condemn it. In Japan, it's more of a sociological issue...

Well, considering the fact that Christians invaded Japan as well as many other nations, Shinto and Buddhism has adopted many of the Christian ideas. Before they invaded Japan, homosexuality was something that was accepted to be natural, and not a big deal. Another reason Japan finds it hard to accept gays is that under-population there is really, really bad.Even though some understand that the reason Japan is under-populated is because the men are at work all day, and women are expected to keep house, resulting in less happy time, people still blame gay people.

This may go without saying, but the West's biggest issue with homosexuality is religion, since all of the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) condemn it. In Japan, it's more of a sociological issue...

Well, considering the fact that Christians invaded Japan as well as many other nations, Shinto and Buddhism has adopted many of the Christian ideas. Before they invaded Japan, homosexuality was something that was accepted to be natural, and not a big deal. Another reason Japan finds it hard to accept gays is that under-population there is really, really bad.Even though some understand that the reason Japan is under-populated is because the men are at work all day, and women are expected to keep house, resulting in less happy time, people still blame gay people.

It's true that many Japanese people have been influenced by western religion, but I wouldn't say that Buddhism has adopted its condemnation of homosexuality at all. Even modern Buddhism has practically nothing to say about it, period.

And Japan doesn't exactly have an "underpopulation" problem; they have a problem with an AGING population. Elderly people are living much longer due to improved health care, while (as I mentioned earlier) marriage and birth rates are down. The actual population hasn't gotten smaller, just older on average, and that lends to a different set of issues, not the least of which is a massive increase in health care costs. That can throw off economic balance, especially since it pertains to a retired population no longer in the revenue-generating workplace.

last edited at May 28, 2015 3:14PM

Back on the topic of Citrus, I've heard quite a few people here say that the drama is poorly written, repetitive, or absurd while still admitting that the fantastic art and twisted characters compell them to keep reading (or something like that).

Out of curiosity, what are some of your critical favorites in the yuri genre, the ones that have set your standards for this kind of critique?

last edited at May 28, 2015 3:40PM

I dissagree on the accepting thing. Maybe their friends would, but their familly no.

I was suggesting that their family doesn't need to know, at least not that they're explicitly "dating". It would be pretty easy to hide, considering their mom even gave them a bed to sleep in together. From her perspective, she'd just be happy that her two daughters were getting along so well. But knowing how they've behaved so far, keeping the intimacy behind closed doors is probably easier said than done...

Yeah, that will happen in the beggining. But if they have a long term relationship there is no chance people won't eventually find out. And even if they can still hide it, for let's say 2 years, there maybe come a point when they will feel fed up hiding all time and want to reveal it by themselves. Keeping the issue hidden doesn't resolve things.

Yeah, that will happen in the beggining. But if they have a long term relationship there is no chance people won't eventually find out. And even if they can still hide it, for let's say 2 years, there maybe come a point when they will feel fed up hiding all time and want to reveal it by themselves. Keeping the issue hidden doesn't resolve things.

I totally agree that's how it would work for the long run in real life, just not within the span of this manga's story. But all of it's pure speculation anyway. Who knows?! In volume 5, their mom could walk in on them in the bedroom, and we really would be dealing with the troubles you describe.

last edited at May 28, 2015 3:57PM

Out of curiosity, what are some of your critical favorites in the yuri genre, the ones that have set your standards for this kind of critique?

I don't think I really compare any series. My main criticism of Citrus is that the melodrama just piles up -- I don't like melodrama in general. I'll admit that I don't know why I keep reading it (I'm certainly much less entusiastic about it, though). Maybe I'm more masochistic than I thought. Also: Harumin.
I have many favorites; if we are talking about drama, I guess I'll say Pieta and Kimi Koi Limit? I also really like Kissing Mars. I guess I tend to prefer one-shots though -- I really like short forms of storytelling.

last edited at May 28, 2015 4:06PM

Out of curiosity, what are some of your critical favorites in the yuri genre, the ones that have set your standards for this kind of critique?

Pieta for sure. Love My Life for entirely different reasons. Two By This Side, Three By the Other Side is an amazing Touhou piece.

This might be a good topic to make its own separate post, see what other people's favourite "serious" yuri is, outside of just Citrus readers (and me, who doesn't actually read it).

Out of curiosity, what are some of your critical favorites in the yuri genre, the ones that have set your standards for this kind of critique?

Pieta for sure. Love My Life for entirely different reasons. Two By This Side, Three By the Other Side is an amazing Touhou piece.

This might be a good topic to make its own separate post, see what other people's favourite "serious" yuri is, outside of just Citrus readers (and me, who doesn't actually read it).

Done, just created the new thread, as I'm very interested to hear other recommendations.

Yeah, that will happen in the beggining. But if they have a long term relationship there is no chance people won't eventually find out. And even if they can still hide it, for let's say 2 years, there maybe come a point when they will feel fed up hiding all time and want to reveal it by themselves. Keeping the issue hidden doesn't resolve things.

I totally agree that's how it would work for the long run in real life, just not within the span of this manga's story. But all of it's pure speculation anyway. Who knows?! In volume 5, their mom could walk in on them in the bedroom, and we really would be dealing with the troubles you describe.

Lol true. Only possibility short term is that she she walks on them. But at least that means we get some action XD
This is future drama, but that was my point. I hope that Citrus gets more chapters/volumes than expected, and maybe I was speculating what could happen then (very long term i know).

To be honest I first started reading Citrus because the art is amazing, and of course Mei and yuzu are..well good looking, lol. XD But yea the manga is weak plot-wise. Some times it feels forced drama. On the other hand, I think author can really express their feelings great by drawing them. But this is the difference between manga and just books. You also have something to look at, rather than just imagining it. And most probably something appealing too.
There might be some better yuri mangas out there considering the story, drama and consistency, but art is kinda bad in some of them(well in most of them imo).
I would prefer reading those mangas as a plain book and picturing myself the things unfolding rather than having the art ruin it for me. But that's just personal, although i think that's (one of) the reason that Citrus is popular, despite its weak spots in plot. It's really well drawn. And when people read manga (not books) they usually want to see something visually stimulating too.

Edit: Search up for Nanzaki Iku (regarding the yuri mangas). Art is just 10/10

last edited at May 28, 2015 4:27PM

I would prefer reading those mangas as a plain book and picturing myself the things unfolding rather than having the art ruin it for me. But that's just personal, although i think that's (one of) the reason that Citrus is popular, despite its weak spots in plot. It's really well drawn. And when people read manga (not books) they usually want to see something visually stimulating too.

All true, but don't get me wrong... For all of my attempts at objective critique and cultural analysis in this thread, I hold Citrus in higher esteem than most. It just fits my personal taste very very well.

I hold Citrus high too. There are the flaws that have been mentioned before but after that it comes down to personal taste if you also don't care and just enjoy the manga. This is why i was hoping for long term drama (= longer manga lol)
Plus i think some people like to complain just for the shake of it lol

last edited at May 28, 2015 4:36PM