ForumA Room For Two discussion

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

But as it happens, I just came across a review of the first two volumes of this series at a long-established and well-respected yuri manga/anime website

Erica? Well-respected? Her opinions are trash, she is so biased and projects politics and LGBT real life stuff into yuri that most of the things she says are plain wrong or just dumb. As far as I'm concerned she is not a referent in the Western yuri community (and she is disliked by some yuri fans), maybe she is in Tumblr though.
For example, she is fixated on believing Yuu is asexual despite all the evidence against that statement, all because she wants asexual representation in manga.

Well, I know she’s done a lot on the translation side, and she’s the primary yuri manga person in Anglophone academia.

That said, it was her very unconvincingly argued take on YagaKimi that brought me to the Dynasty forums in the first place—I’m willing to listen to any serious argument about comics, but her review was so poorly grounded in the textual evidence that I wanted to find out what other people had to say about it. And now here I am.

As I said, to me the “yuri/not yuri” labeling thing is inherently an endless argument, usually little more than a parlor game that’s about as meaningful intellectually as the ones played by music fans who want to precisely define “real metal” or “real punk” or “real jazz” or whatever to prove their own superior authenticity.

It was the attack on readers that really took me aback—anybody attempting serious literary criticism who finds themselves writing the phrase “the kinds of people who” in a negative review needs to just hit delete and try again.

last edited at Oct 8, 2018 9:53AM

67413148_p0
joined Jan 22, 2016

The only way to avoid this being full on yuri is for Kasumi to reject Sakurako. Can anybody see that happening? I don't think so.

Yeah, that's not even a possibility. Kasumi's occasionally a little put off by Sakurako's intensity of love, but it never seemed like she hates it. Easygoing personality or not. Kasumi also makes it fairly clear she needs Sakurako to... uhm, survive... and how she acts only this spoiled because it's Sakurako.

It also gets clearer later on that Kasumi wants to be with Sakurako and not just because she's too dependent on her. Also, her level of comfortableness around Sakurako is way too high for just being easygoing (Look forward to ch. 29) Extra fun fact: I remember 4 kisses between the two (might be more, though), and the one in ch. 27 is the only kiss Sakurako initiated.

last edited at Oct 8, 2018 10:02AM

Healing-punchiiiii
joined Jan 21, 2016

And here I am, just silently wishing that all subtext are like this and Nettaigyo. A+ for that jealous Kasumi. <3

Eivhbyw
joined Aug 26, 2018

The only way to avoid this being full on yuri is for Kasumi to reject Sakurako. Can anybody see that happening? I don't think so.

Yeah, that's not even a possibility. Kasumi's occasionally a little put off by Sakurako's intensity of love, but it never seemed like she hates it. Easygoing personality or not. Kasumi also makes it fairly clear she needs Sakurako to... uhm, survive... and how she acts only this spoiled because it's Sakurako.

It also gets clearer later on that Kasumi wants to be with Sakurako and not just because she's too dependent on her. Also, her level of comfortableness around Sakurako is way too high for just being easygoing (Look forward to ch. 29) Extra fun fact: I remember 4 kisses between the two (might be more, though), and the one in ch. 27 is the only kiss Sakurako initiated.

You sure know how to get me excited! These are the kinds of spoilers I can deal with~

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

[Kasumi] acts only this spoiled because it's Sakurako.

As emphasized by her professional behavior in the shop when her mom is there. IRL, of course, lazy spoiled moochers like her are almost inevitably beyond intolerable—only the magic of comedy manga can transform Kasumi into something so adorable.

joined Aug 24, 2016

What the heck, I want a stone kiln microwave!

A8655427-a1fe-40eb-9c2f-10bb35cb2487
joined Aug 26, 2018

Ps why do most manga/anime girls have virtually no alcohol tolerance? And the ones that do are usually depicted as alcoholics

Aside from "it's girly and proper to not be a hard drinker" (and can be played for cute humor), low body weight and inexperience go a long way to make alcohol hit like a truck. Also, alcohol tolerance like lactose tolerance can differ across various populations thanks to genes that code for enzymes related to metabolizing alcohol - basically people with the different genes don't process alcohol as well. It's far from absolute, but Japanese people are one of those populations with a (relatively) high incidence of low tolerance.

As far as the second point, well, one way to build your tolerance is to drink more...

Also: drinking slower, eating before, being fat, and some medications can also do it (dont do this one)

Thank you for answering (and the drinking tips). You make good points and I agree with you. But about the Japanese people and alcohol tolerance, I feel like that might be a stereotype (I haven’t done research on it so I’m only speculating).

Anyway, my initial question was referring to how alcohol tolerance seems to be exaggerated in manga/anime. I’ve usually come across stories with women who either have no alcohol tolerance (like here) or have drinking problems. Rarely have I seen female characters depicted as being able to handle their alcohol without implied alcoholism. Here Sakurako is a high school student, so low alcohol tolerance is expected since she has little experience with drinking. But the girl didn’t drink a bottle of beer, she ate whiskey bon bons. Chocolates with alcohol have very little of it in them. Even if you eat a lot, they’re not meant to get you full on drunk. That’s why this felt exaggerated and unrealistic. I’ve noticed this pattern often in manga and just wanted to point it out.

So your first point, basically girls not being able to handle alcohol is “moe,” is the only reason I can think of that author’s depict their female characters this way. I didn’t mean to write an essay, please excuse my blabbing

last edited at Oct 10, 2018 8:28AM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Rarely have I seen female characters depicted as being able to handle their alcohol without implied alcoholism.

I've seen plenty, as in pretty much any adult-oriented manga that has a bar as its setting--the regulars usually are seen drinking without getting fully intoxicated--it's the exceptions (the first-time visitor, the person drinking unusually heavily because of rejection, etc.) who are shown as being a problem.

Then there's the "rescuer" who gets (or takes) the drunk person home. There's the small girl who can hold her liquor better than the guys, etc.

The point is that most manga aren't giving a detailed depiction of real-life Japanese culture or a statement about females and alcohol. Drinking/drunkenness is a trope, a narrative device, and the comedy character who is so innocent that they get drunk on brandied chocolates, etc. is a very old and familiar trope in 4-koma manga.

Rumia_full_1227580
joined Oct 10, 2018

Well according to this

For the purposes of Dynasty-Scans, subtext refers to works where characters are close enough to each other and act in a way that they could be in love with each other, but no defining event happens that outright confirms it.

Which yeah dynasty-scans needs to sort out this. A lot of so called Yuri shouldn't be yuri then. If it's labeled as a yuri Dynasty should respect that and change it to yuri.

I'm also guessing that a lot of people have suggested yuri already for this and the mods just don't want to change it.

last edited at Oct 12, 2018 11:45AM

__ex_keine_kamishirasawa_keine_and_kamishirasawa_keine_touhou_drawn_by_rebecca_keinelove__dac6b62f1c1ee61618ab14504ccd5a1b
joined May 30, 2018

nice upgrade

52722-l
joined Nov 8, 2017

Naked Kasumi nosebleeds
And she asked Sakurako's mom permission to marry Sakurako, and she accepted. lol
Also, I think Kakeru is the only one of Sakurako's siblings that doesn't have a crush on Kasumi, and was ironically the one his mother said Kasumi should marry. xD
And now Hina has her own blonde, though she still has her eyes on Kasumi. lol

joined Jul 26, 2016

The Kawawas are... pretty impressive. In all kinds of ways. (lol)

Senjougahara_sama
Rowow
joined Jun 12, 2017

I know she had about 3 years to do it, but considering that the only things I ever see Sakurako doing are fucking around with Kasumi, housework, or literally nothing at all, reading the entirety of the school's library is very impressive. Sakurako has a cartoonish level of genius intellect and academic achievement.

Also praise the yuri tag.

Madoromicloseup
joined Mar 6, 2018

nice upgrade

Your order has been upgraded to yuri, with a serving of subtext on the side.

last edited at Oct 13, 2018 1:43AM

Descarga
joined Aug 10, 2015

i actually like more the unintended flirt of the first chapters than the over the top one sided love of sakurako
sometimes sakurako comes up as anoying and creepy and kasumi looks really uncomfortable about that
i really like the last part of the last chapter since gets that feeling of unintended flirt from the first chapters

Descarga
joined Aug 10, 2015

yuri tag? RIP FRIENDSHIP jokes :( well we still have nettaigyo wa yuki ni kogareru

last edited at Oct 13, 2018 2:22AM

67413148_p0
joined Jan 22, 2016

We made it, the yuri tag is back. I wonder how many less comments the discussion section is getting now.

last edited at Oct 13, 2018 2:13AM

Mask
joined Jan 6, 2015

That last chapter was so cuddly it hurts <3

Weh
joined Nov 20, 2016

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT CUTENESS???
I feel like they've gone up a level in their relationship, it's nice that they feel like they've always had steady progress.

Images
joined Dec 15, 2016

This becomes gayer with every new chapter lol, I love this series and I am glad that after all that time waiting, this is continuing.

Descarga
joined Aug 10, 2015

This becomes gayer with every new chapter lol, I love this series and I am glad that after all that time waiting, this is continuing.

your name is fucking awesome los tacos al pastor son lo maximo (inserte meme de larry langosta)

joined Oct 13, 2018

Romance is showing.

Tumblr_inline_o3faqeqbgs1s9j5kz_400
joined Mar 10, 2018

When this ends, I might actually die from withdrawals

joined Jul 26, 2016

I like how Azusa doesn't bat an eye at being randomly turned down. Going by that chipper acknowledgement she can guess juuust fine what would make Sakurako hastily about-face like that... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

45b4e36d555ca184502130f8249354c2--flcl-furi-kuri2
joined Jul 19, 2018

Ps why do most manga/anime girls have virtually no alcohol tolerance? And the ones that do are usually depicted as alcoholics

Aside from "it's girly and proper to not be a hard drinker" (and can be played for cute humor), low body weight and inexperience go a long way to make alcohol hit like a truck. Also, alcohol tolerance like lactose tolerance can differ across various populations thanks to genes that code for enzymes related to metabolizing alcohol - basically people with the different genes don't process alcohol as well. It's far from absolute, but Japanese people are one of those populations with a (relatively) high incidence of low tolerance.

As far as the second point, well, one way to build your tolerance is to drink more...

Also: drinking slower, eating before, being fat, and some medications can also do it (dont do this one)

Thank you for answering (and the drinking tips). You make good points and I agree with you. But about the Japanese people and alcohol tolerance, I feel like that might be a stereotype (I haven’t done research on it so I’m only speculating).

Anyway, my initial question was referring to how alcohol tolerance seems to be exaggerated in manga/anime. I’ve usually come across stories with women who either have no alcohol tolerance (like here) or have drinking problems. Rarely have I seen female characters depicted as being able to handle their alcohol without implied alcoholism. Here Sakurako is a high school student, so low alcohol tolerance is expected since she has little experience with drinking. But the girl didn’t drink a bottle of beer, she ate whiskey bon bons. Chocolates with alcohol have very little of it in them. Even if you eat a lot, they’re not meant to get you full on drunk. That’s why this felt exaggerated and unrealistic. I’ve noticed this pattern often in manga and just wanted to point it out.

So your first point, basically girls not being able to handle alcohol is “moe,” is the only reason I can think of that author’s depict their female characters this way. I didn’t mean to write an essay, please excuse my blabbing

If you have a low tolerance you can definitely get a pretty good buzz going just by munching out on those little liquor bottle shaped chocolates because I've done it before. I never drink, but I am a fiend for chocolate so I've sat down and eaten through over a dozen of those things before and I was definitely not sober afterwards. There is however no way you could get seriously trashed on them unless you ate stomach churning quantities, like 100+.

It depends on the chocolates, as some have more or less booze in them but the little chocolate bottle shaped ones have quite a bit. I would put eating a bit over a dozen at like the same as at least drinking a good bottle of beer. I've eaten a ton of some lesser brandy filled ones and never really got a buzz so it does depend on which ones you get.

I should also add for those planning to try it, be ready to feel pretty blegh afterwords. The combination of sugar, fats, booze and chocolate really isn't great for your stomach.

last edited at Oct 13, 2018 5:23AM

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