Forum › Exiled From My Old Party For Being A Woman, Me And A Legendary Witch Formed The Ultimate Tag Team discussion

joined Jul 26, 2016

Social commentary on the shitty treatment women get at the hands of men in Japan (and globally) is arguably not common enough. People who are complaining about the men being "cartoonishly evil" should really take a step back and realize what sort of absurd shit is normally just accepted in anime/manga. Something to counter the typical sexism should be welcomed rather than dismissed.

I fail to see how Chick Tracts level of ham-fistedness is supposed to be the way to go about it.

Certainly doesn't make for good writing.

Random Wanderer
Gatchaman%20hajime
joined Dec 3, 2016

Oh, I remember this WN. It absolutely should not be taken seriously. Just enjoy the yuri and the comically stupid douchebags being put in their place.

New
joined Aug 4, 2016

People complaining about every men being depicted cartoonishly evil should go and read the LNs again. There is also a reason why its a fantasy setting and the reason for so much of sexism in it is revealed in the novel. And also try living in some of the countries around where I live and then tell if these cartoonishly evil men don't exist. I am not 100% sure but sexism in Japan is very prevalent and an author trying to up it to get a point across is nothing bad.

Ps. Read the novel again up till second volume

Also I hope they don't come complaining about it again and again in every other chapter. If you don't like the subject and the way it is being potrayed in this story complaining one is enough. Thank you.

"Again."

I suspect most of these complaints - if not all - are coming from people who haven't yet read the LN even once.

Cow%202
joined Sep 27, 2017

Oh, I remember this WN. It absolutely should not be taken seriously. Just enjoy the yuri and the comically stupid douchebags being put in their place.

Yeah I think this sounds about right.

I should note I'm not complaining about the series so far. I honestly know very little about it, and have mostly only heard loose things about the original source material. I did say that the men are cartoonishly evil and that the series does feel like it's intentionally slanted in that direction, which I believe to be a likely correct statement, but I don't believe I ever said that was a bad thing. Fiction exists to express all sorts of feelings and ideas, and if the author is feeling wronged by all the crappy sexism in the world and is using this narrative of cartoonishly evil men getting their asses kicked as catharsis, more power to the author I say.

Edit: Plus I know also know cartoonishly evil people do actually exist in real life as well. Though I don't believe they're the norm, as the average person is just trying to keep their head down and get by day to day. There's also people that are constantly striving to improve and make the world a better place. Lots of people in the world and all that.

last edited at Apr 20, 2021 9:53AM

Yohane_b_color_white_200
joined Jul 21, 2015

Thanks for not calling this Sexiled

joined Jul 1, 2020

Social commentary on the shitty treatment women get at the hands of men in Japan (and globally) is arguably not common enough. People who are complaining about the men being "cartoonishly evil" should really take a step back and realize what sort of absurd shit is normally just accepted in anime/manga. Something to counter the typical sexism should be welcomed rather than dismissed.

Agree

Nyohohoho
joined Apr 20, 2013

Hauteclere posted:

People complaining about every men being depicted cartoonishly evil should go and read the LNs again. There is also a reason why its a fantasy setting and the reason for so much of sexism in it is revealed in the novel. And also try living in some of the countries around where I live and then tell if these cartoonishly evil men don't exist. I am not 100% sure but sexism in Japan is very prevalent and an author trying to up it to get a point across is nothing bad.

Ps. Read the novel again up till second volume

Also I hope they don't come complaining about it again and again in every other chapter. If you don't like the subject and the way it is being potrayed in this story complaining one is enough. Thank you.

"Again."

I suspect most of these complaints - if not all - are coming from people who haven't yet read the LN even once.

But that's normal, while I believe people who are taking this too seriously are wasting their time and should reconsider how they enjoy a fictional manga, we still have the right to comment about THE manga, and yeah there's a light novel... But even light novel readers didn't have 10 or 50 chapters from the very start to have a "valid" opinion before commenting what they think of the introduction.

If they come back and keep complaining in 2 or 3 chapters we should call them out in their hypocrisy but for now, we only have the first chapter to judge... Also, LN readers, OrangePekoe said this already but keep it down with the spoilers, hide them at the very least (you start with "==" at the start and at the end of a spoiler line to hide text).

I'm enjoying this because is funny just considering how they talk and the comedy, the setting is crazy alright but I want to see what they do with it, and people who can't even deal with the first chapter are probably better of dropping it now, we shouldn't waste our time trying to convince them and they shouldn't waste our time with their complains IF they stay anyway.

joined Jul 1, 2020

Oh, I remember this WN. It absolutely should not be taken seriously. Just enjoy the yuri and the comically stupid douchebags being put in their place.

Yeah I think this sounds about right.

I should note I'm not complaining about the series so far. I honestly know very little about it, and have mostly only heard loose things about the original source material. I did say that the men are cartoonishly evil and that the series does feel like it's intentionally slanted in that direction, which I believe to be a likely correct statement, but I don't believe I ever said that was a bad thing. Fiction exists to express all sorts of feelings and ideas, and if the author is feeling wronged by all the crappy sexism in the world and is using this narrative of cartoonishly evil men getting their asses kicked as catharsis, more power to the author I say.

Edit: Plus I know also know cartoonishly evil people do actually exist in real life as well. Though I don't believe they're the norm, as the average person is just trying to keep their head down and get by day to day. There's also people that are constantly striving to improve and make the world a better place. Lots of people in the world and all that.

And you know what not every man is depicted cartoonishly evil in it, seriously though have these people even read the LN before complaining?

10466e3de
joined Oct 25, 2014

Social commentary on the shitty treatment women get at the hands of men in Japan (and globally) is arguably not common enough. People who are complaining about the men being "cartoonishly evil" should really take a step back and realize what sort of absurd shit is normally just accepted in anime/manga. Something to counter the typical sexism should be welcomed rather than dismissed.

I fail to see how Chick Tracts level of ham-fistedness is supposed to be the way to go about it.

Certainly doesn't make for good writing.

It's not meant to be whatever you consider "good writing." The author wrote this to vent her anger after it was made public in Japan that some prestigious medical universities were doctoring entrance exams to decrease the number of female students. According to the author's afterword at the end of volume 1, she was pretty fucking angry about this, and wrote the story to express her frustration. So it's not meant to be some balanced social commentary or whatever. It's just a reaction to the rampant injustice that actually exists in real life.

last edited at Apr 20, 2021 10:12AM

joined Jul 26, 2016

And you know what not every man is depicted cartoonishly evil in it, seriously though have these people even read the LN before complaining?

Why should that be some kind of requirement to be allowed to criticize it? This work needs to be able to stand, and will be judged, on its own merits like any other.

And if anything I would say the manga is mostly doing an excellent job disincentivising further exploration of the corpus. If the very first chapter of the manga hits the ham-fisted cringe saturation point less than ten pages in, why in the world should I feel compelled to invest any time and effort into locating and reading the original LN in the first place?

herenowforever
joined Feb 11, 2018

In a world with things like Redo Healer, "How not to summon a demon lord" and Seven Deadly Sins and such, might as well have some of this kind of "anti-male" fanservice and submission, combined with feminist power fantasy in general.

I also love it when I see some guys crying on random anime chat how their eyes were suddenly exposed to man-service, when they were watching their favorite semi-hentai. They quite literally cry and whine online if there's a guy who isn't fully dressed, and it wasn't for a joke but as eye candy that ended up being objectified by women and non-straight men. They even repeat the "fujoshi" attacks using the term in its original context, that were originally aimed by some frustrated Japanese Incel guys towards specifically lesbians and bi women who actually had some standards. That if they didn't choose a guy (specifically him), they were rotten, worthless bitches.

All of those guys are like the flakiest of snowflakes I've ever seen. And don't even get me started on if their favorite guy in a story gets "NTR'ed" (aka, doesn't get the girl or heaven forbid, goes gay route). I'm sure it's all down to personal experiences and trauma at that point.

last edited at Apr 20, 2021 10:14AM

1596373817432
joined May 26, 2016

Social commentary on the shitty treatment women get at the hands of men in Japan (and globally) is arguably not common enough. People who are complaining about the men being "cartoonishly evil" should really take a step back and realize what sort of absurd shit is normally just accepted in anime/manga. Something to counter the typical sexism should be welcomed rather than dismissed.

I fail to see how Chick Tracts level of ham-fistedness is supposed to be the way to go about it.

Certainly doesn't make for good writing.

I mean from what I read awhile back it honestly only gets worst to the point i felt it was a parody. I want my yuro power fantasy harem aswell but nah this was a hard pass. Prob will stick around just to laugh at the translations like someone brought up tho.

joined Jul 26, 2016

It's not meant to be whatever you consider "good writing." The author wrote this to vent her anger after it was made public in Japan that some prestigious medical universities were doctoring entrance exams to decrease the number of female students. According to the author's afterword at the end of volume 1, she was pretty fucking angry about this, and wrote the story to express her frustration. So it's not meant to be some balanced social commentary or whatever. It's meant as reaction to the rampant injustice that actually exists in real life.

Yeah, there's tropes for it. But angry soapboxing about something you're Mad As Hell about adds no inherent merit to the work, and puerile revenge fantasies do not particularly meet my criteria of worthwhile reading.

YMMV of course but I'd prefer my social commentary with some thought and sophistication.

10466e3de
joined Oct 25, 2014

It's not meant to be whatever you consider "good writing." The author wrote this to vent her anger after it was made public in Japan that some prestigious medical universities were doctoring entrance exams to decrease the number of female students. According to the author's afterword at the end of volume 1, she was pretty fucking angry about this, and wrote the story to express her frustration. So it's not meant to be some balanced social commentary or whatever. It's meant as reaction to the rampant injustice that actually exists in real life.

Yeah, there's tropes for it. But angry soapboxing about something you're Mad As Hell about adds no inherent merit to the work, and puerile revenge fantasies do not particularly meet my criteria of worthwhile reading.

Revenge might not have merit to you, but if helped this person get this shit out of her chest, then it had enough merit in my book.

YMMV of course but I'd prefer my social commentary with some thought and sophistication.

Again, it wasn't really meant to be social commentary. It was just a reaction to real-life shit. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.

last edited at Apr 20, 2021 10:23AM

joined Jul 1, 2020

And you know what not every man is depicted cartoonishly evil in it, seriously though have these people even read the LN before complaining?

Why should that be some kind of requirement to be allowed to criticize it? This work needs to be able to stand, and will be judged, on its own merits like any other.

And if anything I would say the manga is mostly doing an excellent job disincentivising further exploration of the corpus. If the very first chapter of the manga hits the ham-fisted cringe saturation point less than ten pages in, why in the world should I feel compelled to invest any time and effort into locating and reading the original LN in the first place?

Good, hope you move on from this read something which you actually like and not dropping on every chapter for complaining since reading further chapters would be waste of your time.

joined Jul 26, 2016

Revenge might not have merit to you, but if helped this person get this shit out of her chest, then it had enough merit in my book.

YMMV of course but I'd prefer my social commentary with some thought and sophistication.

Again, it wasn't really meant to be social commentary. It was just a reaction to real-life shit. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.

The point is none of it has any particular or inherent narrative merit. Unapologetic Author Tracts can still be very well-written stories regardless of their obvious baggage - see George Orwell for a classic example - but this one clearly isn't. Its only merit as a story I can perceive amounts to angry venting; if that's right up your alley, well, you do you but don't be shocked, shocked if other people don't agree.

joined Jan 6, 2017

puerile revenge fantasies do not particularly meet my criteria of worthwhile reading.

Okay, then don't read it. It certainly does fit mine so no complaints

joined Jul 26, 2016

puerile revenge fantasies do not particularly meet my criteria of worthwhile reading.

Okay, then don't read it. It certainly does fit mine so no complaints

I'm going to politely refrain from commenting on your literary taste, but I doth believe I am within my rights to comment on what I find to be problematic with the work.

joined Jul 1, 2020

puerile revenge fantasies do not particularly meet my criteria of worthwhile reading.

Okay, then don't read it. It certainly does fit mine so no complaints

I'm going to politely refrain from commenting on your literary taste, but I doth believe I am within my rights to comment on what I find to be problematic with the work.

Ok we heard ya, thanks for sharing your opinions.

joined May 24, 2014

Oh, I remember this WN. It absolutely should not be taken seriously. Just enjoy the yuri and the comically stupid douchebags being put in their place.

You're asking too much for this forum

joined Jan 6, 2017

puerile revenge fantasies do not particularly meet my criteria of worthwhile reading.

Okay, then don't read it. It certainly does fit mine so no complaints

I'm going to politely refrain from commenting on your literary taste

you just did tho.

regardless, have fun not reading this I guess.

C5644df4-6640-46e8-a85c-f7d23678316d
joined Nov 11, 2018

finally hell yea mooooar

joined Jul 26, 2016

you just did tho.

Sarcasm, dear. It should already have been quite apparent how I felt about it.

regardless, have fun not reading this I guess.

That was the plan yes. But as it is highly unusual for a series to reach such levels of cringy badness it seemed appropriate to make note of (some of) the problem points.

last edited at Apr 20, 2021 11:31AM

Image
joined Aug 10, 2016

but this was also written by a man that just wanted to make a fun yuri story about fighting the system.

…? I'm pretty Kaeruda Ameko is a woman.

In any case, I remembered reading the light novel a few months ago. Basically the story was written in reaction to the whole scandal where Tokyo Medical University rejected women applicants because they didn't want women doctors. Kaeruda also mentioned something about the high heels protest that was going on at the time.

Coudlve sworn it was mentioned during that afterword that they're male, but I might have gotten it confused with something else then.

joined May 30, 2020

I WAS WAITING FOR THIS SERIES TO GET A MANGA! AWESOME!

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