Forum › Wake Ari na Kanojo-tachi discussion

joined Jul 28, 2019

Kinnikufan posted:

I can't unsee 6 fingers on Vivi's hand on the last page of chapter 2.

I think you're misinterpreting the creases on her palm as being a sixth finger.

No, that's definitely an accidental 6th finger. Follow the knuckle lines.

joined Apr 4, 2016

“They fell over”

Sure...

Inai hou ga ii ningen
joined May 23, 2018

Why does it feel like this is a regression of Neji's work. Like when you go back and look at the quality of story telling and art in their past works the difference is astonishing.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

Why does it feel like this is a regression of Neji's work. Like when you go back and look at the quality of story telling and art in their past works the difference is astonishing.

Because it was made before Beauty and the Beast girl.

Prismaticowl2
joined May 5, 2020

Oh no! The vampire's a dumbass!

Oh no! The human's also a dumbass!

Fighto~

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

Inai hou ga ii ningen posted:

Why does it feel like this is a regression of Neji's work. Like when you go back and look at the quality of story telling and art in their past works the difference is astonishing.

Because it's actually their oldest work. It was made in 2016.

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

Ok, imagine you're that woman Kara, you're going to your work as any other day like the standard person you are, you see a girl on the street who looks hurt, you'll probably go see if she's ok right? but then the girl starts saying that she's a rArE mUtAtIoN oF vAmPiRe, and then you believe her...
...GIRL??? nO
Call an ambulance, she's probably crazy or just a really edgy teenager, no one would ever think she was telling the truth, but the character goes like "iS tHaT tRuE?" she says "yes" and then "Oh, ok fine"? I understand, she just woke up, probably a lil groggy, but believe, i wouldn't ask if that's true, i'd ask if she's ok.
The thing is: Is she actually telling the truth? Yes, she is. But before she proves it, she's just crazy for everyones' eyes.
It bothered me because it was just unrealistic. And if the character really is not the type that would freak out about that, it could at least show it for everyone to understand on page 1.

And then, and then the girl just- just fucking sMILES and she says "Oh I lOvE hEr" oh give me a break, if i wanted to see unrealistic things like that i'd watch Disney's golden era movies.

I understand that ppl likes stories like this, believe me, i'm one of those ppl, but... when it's at least a little realistic.
I'll come back in the future to check out and see if that character is actually just weird overall.
(I actually LOVE Neji's other stories, "Like a Snowfall in Spring" was just so beautiful and "Vacation Maou to Pet" was funny and had nice characters, but this one... idk)

I mean, you're assuming that this isn't a fantasy world where cute lesbian monster-girls are real and everybody knows about them, even though that's been the case for every other series Neji has written.

Also, the very first thing she did was sink her fangs into the other girl's neck and drink blood until she passed out, so yeah, I think I'd probably also go with "rare vampire" over "emo kid" as a conclusion.

Cv7t70_vyaagwe3
joined Nov 19, 2017

Perma ban me over this for disagreeing with a few people? Eh. I saw something I disagree with, I feel like I need to speak up is all. Was I overly hostile? I was miffed yeah. But I still tried to keep it as coherent and semi neutral as I can. Some people voice some dissatisfaction with Neji and there's this dogpile just standing by waiting. That's what my gut was saying. I wrote 2 posts that were of more than average post length, and from my interpretation, the faction of "I dislike long posters" jump on me and try to, from my perspective, undermine my points with rather flimsy rebuttals and borderline insults.

StarDress write a semi long post. That person gets called a nerd. And then followed up by someone saying "not the best place to look for realism."

Yeah, pretty tame stuff. Then look at my posts' followups.
"Don't read stuff you don't like." But how do I know if I don't like it I don't read it? My follow up post also addresses the need to explore a fictional work, however well or badly that came across to some people.
"You sound like you've never read manga with all that rambling." That meant to be an insult? Like. Omg. Lol?

"criticisms are needed for people to learn from their mistakes."

I really doubt many mangaka are reading these forums for your pearls of critical wisdom.

Would be hilarious if they do. Doesn't mean I won't try to understand what works for a fictional work or doesn't.

"I feel like some peoples on the forum has a nasty habit to overthink and overanalys fluffy manga,"

So why the hostility? Does that mean there's a need to intentionally segregate people into two groups? This me vs them camp? This isn't the first instance where I see a poster wants to separate readers into two groups, the "normal" vs the "nerds/some other label." Why is it nasty to overthink and overanalyze? Why did you say nasty? What's so nasty about it? Which part of someone else thinking and analyzing does it make you uncomfortable and ruins your day? Why is nasty such a dirty, icky word? Why is it wrong to try to explore what works and what don't? I WANT to hear what people have to say about someone's work, that's why I check the forum. If I just want an echo chamber of "oh this thing is AMAZING!" then there's no point at all in me even making an account and writing.

A forum is still the place for discussion. I wish to discuss what I think about the relevant subject with other users and hear what they also have to say. Sometimes discourse happens. But you can't find new ideas in an echo chamber. That's pointless. And then there's this almost active attempt to suppress people with a slightly different opinion than the general public. I'm not ok with that. That's why I write long pieces to try to voice my opinions and reasoning in as coherent a fashion as possible. Then some people comes in and go: "Lol, tldr. insert vague insult" How... productive?

If mods want to give me a stern talking to and whatnot in private or mute me in public, there's my discord handle Grail#6733 and...here?

Am I rocking the boat? I don't know. I have questions. Genuine, burning questions I want to know the answer to. And I want to ask these questions... uh... screen to screen? Are my questions somehow disruptive or a detriment to the topic on hand? Are they offensive? If my sin is 'only' becuase I write too much and looking at things too closely, then there's really no common grounds for a proper dialogue. If it's my smelly attitude, ok, we have something I can work on. If my questions were somehow insulting, then I need to learn to voice myself better and be a better person. If it's about me writing shorter things and getting to the point, you'll have to show me an example of what's proper.

Cv7t70_vyaagwe3
joined Nov 19, 2017

Post 2 because post 1 was already long enough. And I guess I still need to say something about chuunibyou vampire

I did say this was heavily colored by personal experience and past works I've seen. My first impression was genuinely: "there's an edgy teen standing at high place with a hoodie talking about blood" Brain cues scenes from the anime series Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions. Brain looks at Kingdom Hearts design and a fancomic joke about hoodie people of Organization XIII. Brain concludes "ayep, that's a wannabe chunibyo" based on the presented evidence. The scene will undoubtedly read differently for other people. But for me, underscore, italic, bold, emphasize "ME", it's a chunibyou vampire. This is my subjective opinion. 100%. Organic. Raisied on a free range farm. FDA unapproved yet.

last edited at Jun 13, 2020 8:39PM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

I mean, Neji has always done Monster girl x Human girl yuri or Monster x Monster girl so if one of them is a human, you can assume the other is amonster.

joined Jun 6, 2020

Oh my another series, I bet I'll cry at the end-

Marcy
joined Nov 11, 2015

I'm not going to read all that but just know taht you are a huge nerd

I know green tomato... i know :\

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 12:07PM

Marcy
joined Nov 11, 2015

I mean, you're assuming that this isn't a fantasy world where cute lesbian monster-girls are real and everybody knows about them, even though that's been the case for every other series Neji has written.

Also, the very first thing she did was sink her fangs into the other girl's neck and drink blood until she passed out, so yeah, I think I'd probably also go with "rare vampire" over "emo kid" as a conclusion.

Yes, exactly.
On a story, explaining how your world works BEFORE telling your story is extremely important because ppl wouldn't be confused like i did, at least in my opinion of course.
I mean, there's a difference between explaining how your world works and exposing how they work little little(so ppl could create theories). Some rules needs to be said first, so what comes next could be cohevise, working as a base.
(It's kinda what Centaur no Nayami did at the beggining, they explained the whole prehistory, then the whole history, how all their races are together and how it impacts their social experience as a diverse community... in 7 minutes)

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 12:17PM

Marcy
joined Nov 11, 2015

Wait wait wait i didn't read everything, ppl are getting mad because i got confused? lmaooo y'all are WILD
I knew that "pretty weird place to look for realism" would come up because ppl says that as a pattern.
Honey, every world you see, created or not, has realism. THEIR OWN realism.
Harry Potter has realism, has "world rules", has logic.
You can't just go there, start making dark arts magic on top of the empire state being a 16 year old who knows nothing about magic. For your world to work you need rules, you NEED realism, you need everything to be cohesive. So when you say "pretty weird place to look for realism" it doesn't makes sense because... every good story has realism on their own way.
(Of course, there are stories that doesn't make a lot of sense at the beggining, but that's the magic of it, like Narnia or even Pan's Labyrinth)

I'm just shocked ppl got so nasty over something so... simplistic haha
Ppl really think that logic is what happens in our world, i mean, created worlds DON'T HAVE THE RIGHTS TO HAVE LOGIC, YOU CAN'T! lmao oh gosh... i find it funny sorry XD

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 12:28PM

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

StarDress posted:

On a story, explaining how your world works BEFORE telling your story is extremely important because ppl wouldn't be confused like i did, at least in my opinion of course.
I mean, there's a difference between explaining how your world works and exposing how they work little little(so ppl could create theories). Some rules needs to be said first, so what comes next could be cohevise, working as a base.

It depends, but actually you want usually explaining your rules when something is happening, not in advance and ideally you shouldn't need to explain anything and people should be able to figure out rules on their own just from visuals and short comments. Nobody really wants to read a story that opens with lengthy explanations of the rules, unless it's done really well and/or interesting and not in wall of text info dump. You can set some rules before, but again, the most important thing is feeding those information to your audience naturally and in small doses.

(It's kinda what Centaur no Nayami did at the beggining, they explained the whole prehistory, then the whole history, how all their races are together and how it impacts their social experience as a diverse community... in 7 minutes)

Actually manga starts with the kiss and is more or less slice of life in school with monster people without any real explanation. All the explanation of the world is done in small bonus trivia pages at the end of chapters and the chapter about history of mankind is much later. Even anime don't actually start on that lesson scene, but first you have other slice of life scenes. And honestly, neither in Centaur no Nayami, nor here I found anything so foreign and hard to understand, that you can't comprehend and enjoy it on the first read. Vampire girl is laying on the ground? Plot has to start somehow, but later we actually get a explanation that she lost energy from hunger, because she can't drink normal blood and need to find specific one and she went looking for it exactly because she couldn't feed where she lived, hence her losing conscious and lying on the ground. When girl comes to her she jumps at her and drinks her blood, making her lose conscious and feeling anemic when she wakes up. She explains she's rare breed of vampire. We got explanation in first chapter, exactly what you asked for. And girl believed her because she just drunk her blood and she's actually a monster too, so she knows monsters exists. Girl not getting worried about assault and instead falling for her? Did you ever heard of love at first sight, especially when girl is very cute (which she said)? Also again, she is a monster too, so that explains her not freaking out and being chill. Also vampire girl apologized, explained everything to her and is appearing friendly, so why should she freak out? And lastly... the tone of the story is clearly lighthearted and silly, and it's classic formula of girl meets girl, romance ensues and we just got through how they met. It's really not rocket science. I'm not really sure what there even is to get confused about...

StarDress posted:

Wait wait wait i didn't read everything, ppl are getting mad because i got confused? lmaooo y'all are WILD
I knew that "pretty weird place to look for realism" would come up because ppl says that as a pattern.
Honey, every world you see, created or not, has realism. THEIR OWN realism.
Harry Potter has realism, has "world rules", has logic.
You can't just go there, start making dark arts magic on top of the empire state being a 16 year old who knows nothing about magic. For your world to work you need rules, you NEED realism, you need everything to be cohesive. So when you say "pretty weird place to look for realism" it doesn't makes sense because... every good story has realism on their own way.
(Of course, there are stories that doesn't make a lot of sense at the beggining, but that's the magic of it, like Narnia or even Pan's Labyrinth)

I'm just shocked ppl got so nasty over something so... simplistic haha
Ppl really think that logic is what happens in our world, i mean, created worlds DON'T HAVE THE RIGHTS TO HAVE LOGIC, YOU CAN'T! lmao oh gosh... i find it funny sorry XD

Since you didn't bother reading conversation, at least read my post where I explain realism in fiction. Obviously works need logic (and even then not everything needs to be perfect, as long as it's good enough).

EDIT/ I went and checked, that scene from episode 1 takes 2 minutes in middle of episode.

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 3:45PM

Marcy
joined Nov 11, 2015

It depends, but actually you want usually explaining your rules when something is happening, not in advance and ideally you shouldn't need to explain anything and people should be able to figure out rules on their own just from visuals and short comments. Nobody really wants to read a story that opens with lengthy explanations of the rules, unless it's done really well and/or interesting and not in wall of text info dump. You can set some rules before, but again, the most important thing is feeding those information to your audience naturally and in small doses.

"ideally you shouldn't need to explain anything and people should be able to figure out rules on their own"
On their own? yea of course, go, tell a story, say very little and expect ppl to figure it out on their own! yes!
I don't "want" 5 paragraphs of a whole monologue as you imply in "Nobody really wants to read a story that opens with lengthy explanations of the rules", something really short and explanatory would do the trick, you don't need to explain the whole thing for 10 minutes and as i said, again, you need a base first so everything that comes after becomes something cohesive, so what you said "You can set some rules before, but again, the most important thing is feeding those information to your audience naturally and in small doses." is just exactly what i said with other words so thank you, whoever i don't think that feeding information little by little is the MOST IMPORTANT, is just as important as the base rules, one wouldn't work without the other.

And about the cantaur no nayami thing, i was talking about the anime so srry about not explaining that. On the anime, as i remember, there's a short story at the beggining explaining everything really fast, but in a way everyone can understand.

You said "We got explanation in first chapter", but i was talking more about the characters, "Why the girl just believed so fast?" that's it, since i actually don't remember seeing anywhere that the girl was also a monster and that's why she didn't get scared(and also, when i posted that comment i've only read the first chapter and in the first chapter, the girl being a monster is unsaid).

"Did you ever heard of love at first sight, especially when girl is very cute..." saudhsaoidsahiudsah yea sure "love at first sight", i don't believe that. I believe that love is a strong, unbreakable feeling and you can't just "I looked at her and i knew... i love her" no, this is passion, there's difference. Love is something that comes with time, absolute, it doesn't burns like passion, it's a gentle and scary feeling. A passion's burning makes you blind. So i'd say that part is an opinion thing.

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

I actually talked about both anime and manga and no, in anime it starts just as manga on the school play and nothing is explained. And the short lecture in school is 2 minutes long in middle of episode. In your example of doing it right you said it last 7 minutes. That's way too long and exactly equivalent of giving 5 paragraphs of explanation, so I was going off your own example. Rest I won't even bother cos it's waste of my time. I already wasted more than necessary writing previous and this post.

last edited at Jun 14, 2020 5:08PM

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

I mean, you're assuming that this isn't a fantasy world where cute lesbian monster-girls are real and everybody knows about them, even though that's been the case for every other series Neji has written.

Also, the very first thing she did was sink her fangs into the other girl's neck and drink blood until she passed out, so yeah, I think I'd probably also go with "rare vampire" over "emo kid" as a conclusion.

Yes, exactly.
On a story, explaining how your world works BEFORE telling your story is extremely important because ppl wouldn't be confused like i did, at least in my opinion of course.
I mean, there's a difference between explaining how your world works and exposing how they work little little(so ppl could create theories). Some rules needs to be said first, so what comes next could be cohevise, working as a base.
(It's kinda what Centaur no Nayami did at the beggining, they explained the whole prehistory, then the whole history, how all their races are together and how it impacts their social experience as a diverse community... in 7 minutes)

I feel like you're overly focusing on the first sentence and ignoring the second. I said we don't -know- if it's a fantasy world, but even if it isn't, the first thing she did was SUCK HER BLOOD.

I think there is plenty of empirical evidence within the context of the story for our protagonist to reasonably conclude that vampires are real, so really the only thing she's being asked to accept is that some of them need specific kinds of blood to survive, which...I mean, if I met an actual vampire, I'd be pretty interested in hearing their descriptions about how they work.

Marcy
joined Nov 11, 2015

I feel like you're overly focusing on the first sentence and ignoring the second. I said we don't -know- if it's a fantasy world, but even if it isn't, the first thing she did was SUCK HER BLOOD.

I think there is plenty of empirical evidence within the context of the story for our protagonist to reasonably conclude that vampires are real, so really the only thing she's being asked to accept is that some of them need specific kinds of blood to survive, which...I mean, if I met an actual vampire, I'd be pretty interested in hearing their descriptions about how they work.

It's not really about if the character believes her or not, but if she would freak about the information she just got, since it's not just any other information, it's a "Wait Could She Kill Me Right Now?"(of course she wouldn't because of that "specific blood" thing, but the second she woke up she didn't know that)
When i posted that comment, only the chapter 1 was available so it didn't make sense to me and it made me uncomfortable as i read.
But i agree with you, if i met a vampire, i'd be really interesested to see how they actually work(and what they think about how humans sees vampires, tha'd be fun XD), but believe me, i'd be scared to death before that lol

last edited at Jun 15, 2020 6:43AM

Marcy
joined Nov 11, 2015

I actually talked about both anime and manga and no, in anime it starts just as manga on the school play and nothing is explained. And the short lecture in school is 2 minutes long in middle of episode. In your example of doing it right you said it last 7 minutes. That's way too long and exactly equivalent of giving 5 paragraphs of explanation, so I was going off your own example. Rest I won't even bother cos it's waste of my time. I already wasted more than necessary writing previous and this post.

For god sake, i watched that anime YEARS AGO, i WOULDN'T REMEMBER the EXACT minutes they took omg
And YES, what i remember is: the anime's opening was an explanation of their story and that's it.
You're throwing me into the fire pit because i didn't watched it again to post it on a new manga's forum?? i don't have that much free time.
If you got SO uncomfortable because i didn't say "2 minutes" then SORRY, geez.

last edited at Jun 15, 2020 6:46AM

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

StarDress posted:

For god sake, i watched that anime YEARS AGO, i WOULDN'T REMEMBER the EXACT minutes they took omg

The issue isn't that you misremembered, the issue is that you gave anime opening with 7 minutes setting explanation as a good example of it, but as soon as I commented about it, you replied with saying that you never told me that's what you want...

And YES, what i remember is: the anime's opening was an explanation of their story and that's it.

And all I told you was that you remembered it wrong, hence example you gave doesn't even exist to begin with...

You're throwing me into the fire pit because i didn't watched it again to post it on a new manga's forum??

I don't. Not my fault your reading with comprehension sucks. No wonder you can't understand what you're reading when you have issues with comprehending very simple sentences. It's a joke that then you're trying to argue with people how this manga is "unrealistic" and "doesn't explain itself". But whatever. Thanks for wasting my time. It was a real displeasure.

last edited at Jun 15, 2020 8:21AM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

Just Dynasty things.

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

It's not really about if the character believes her or not, but if she would freak about the information she just got, since it's not just any other information, it's a "Wait Could She Kill Me Right Now?"(of course she wouldn't because of that "specific blood" thing, but the second she woke up she didn't know that)
When i posted that comment, only the chapter 1 was available so it didn't make sense to me and it made me uncomfortable as i read.
But i agree with you, if i met a vampire, i'd be really interesested to see how they actually work(and what they think about how humans sees vampires, tha'd be fun XD), but believe me, i'd be scared to death before that lol

I get that, although I can also see how it would kind of undercut that fear when you wake up and the vampire is absolutely blubbering with apologies for knocking you out.

joined Feb 18, 2015

There are all kinds of reasons for her to accept the fact that the girl is a vampire. The fact that she's waking up and feeling anemic. The fact that the girl has really, really pale skin, ORANGE EYES, and extremely light-colored hair. Perhaps she has a vague memory of the neck bite before she passed out? The real question is why is she so alright with it?

One explanation is given in the story: She's totally into the chick and wants to do unspeakable things to her, from her perspective, that most girls wouldn't allow her to do... this girl just said she'd do ANYTHING... so... let's face it... Kara actually comes across as a bit of a freak in the first chapter...

There is another one heavily implied in the extra material at the end of chapter 1: "But maybe Kara has a secret of her own too...?" and the 4-koma at the end with Vivi reading Attack on Titan and joking that she wouldn't mind being eaten by a beautiful titan like Kara and Kara getting all serious and asking if she's sure about that. This highly suggests that either Kara is NOT a normal human or she's just really, really wanting to devour the girl... not in a Hannibal Lecter sense of the term...

last edited at Jun 16, 2020 6:34PM

Tron-legacy
joined Dec 11, 2017

There are all kinds of reasons for her to accept the fact that the girl is a vampire. The fact that she's waking up and feeling anemic. The fact that the girl has really, really pale skin, ORANGE EYES, and extremely light-colored hair. Perhaps she has a vague memory of the neck bite before she passed out? The real question is why is she so alright with it?

One explanation is given in the story: She's totally into the chick and wants to do unspeakable things to her, from her perspective, that most girls wouldn't allow her to do... this girl just said she'd do ANYTHING... so... let's face it... Kara actually comes across as a bit of a freak in the first chapter...

There is another one heavily implied in the extra material at the end of chapter 1: "But maybe Kara has a secret of her own too...?" and the 4-koma at the end with Vivi reading Attack on Titan and joking that she wouldn't mind being eaten by a beautiful titan like Kara and Kara getting all serious and asking if she's sure about that. This highly suggests that either Kara is NOT a normal human or she's just really, really wanting to devour the girl... not in a Hannibal Lecter sense of the term...

Pretty sure that was just a joke about how tall she is.

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