ForumMagia Record: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Side Story discussion

EvelineClariss
joined Feb 17, 2019

I've not read Tart yet, but apparently there's some good yuri there..? Which is funny, considering the setting.

Well, while it's not on your face like MadoHomu or OriKiri, the yuri is indeed there if you look more closely.

201049
joined Apr 23, 2020

If I can add my 2 cents on the previous discussion about Nanoha, I think why NanoFate is considered legendary is because it was the first of it's kind to have blatantly gay main characters who were interested in each other - and not have some really dramatic destiny aka Kannazuki no Miko XD (Strawberry Panic's anime aired in 2006 while Nanoha aired in 2004). Marimite was a huge disappointment in that regard to me, they never got to NanoFate's point (they adopt a child, live in the same house, sleep in the same bed, at this point who cares whether they kiss on screen or not XD). Thus, it was accessible for people like me who cares more about yuri than the magical girl genre. For Sailor Uranus and Neptune, the fact that they are side characters to a show with straight MCs (talking about Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask here, I'm not a connoisseur of the Sailor series, watched maybe 2-3 episodes of the first season) is a turn off for people for are looking for yuri and not magical girl genre. I'd say they are a little less a legendary classic because of that. And Utena... yes she's very boyish, but isn't it like only the movie that gets gay? I wasn't able to get too far in that anime 'cause I wasn't understanding anything XD. I can't say for sure about that one.

Anyways, I come from this pic https://dynasty-scans.com/images/15217 and just finished reading the comment section. I wanna state that it's pretty obvious to me as well that Mifuyu is supposed to be Yachiyo's ex (let's remember that for yuri, you have to read between the lines since they'd never say it outright 'cause it could loose them fans -_-) and I think the anime made it even gayer between them and between YachiIro than it was in the game. I'm wondering though why wouldn't the game be canon as the anime is based on it? Anyways, I do agree with the person (Nevri I think) who said that if the Mifuyu/Iroha/Yachiyo trio were composed of boys and girls instead of just girls, they'd be seen as exes and bf/gf and yes that double standard is really annoying.

And I can't properly understand the Amane sisters' story, I only have one of the two in-game :'( (the weak one :) ) I know they lived apart and found each other quite recently, but I don't know what their wish was. But yes the anime quite pumped the gay up for them, I guess having a visual support for their lines just did it.

I just wanna mention that the 13th episode had me go WTF every two minutes. What the heck, Kaede wasn't brainwashed in the game???? And those doppels weren't there in the game either? And they chased off Mami, Iroha didn't fall into some hole in the ground? The whole anime had me go ??? a lot of times with how they decided to randomly change some things like events leading to the discovery of the Seance Shrine, the miraculous water thing (why the Hell did Iroha drink that water? She's a magical girl, clearly those things were some familiars-lookalike, in the game it was just a normal dude with water, much more believable that Iroha would drink it, it was not in some creepy dark alley??), can someone tell me if I just misunderstood the game or if the anime really went YOLO? And Alina's VA missed her laugh I was so sad, but overall Alina's character really respected her original awesomeness. I picked her at the start of the game, I had the feeling she was crazy XD never regretted it.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

(let's remember that for yuri, you have to read between the lines since they'd never say it outright 'cause it could loose them fans -_-)

Wouldn't that be the opposite thought ? But that's why i said it's headcanon and not outright canon.The same goes if they were boys/girls. If it isn't said outright then i don't believe it.

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

YuriForTheWin posted:

I think the anime made it even gayer (...) between YachiIro than it was in the game.

You clearly played the game, but I think YachiIro is way more gayer in game than in anime so (not that they're not gay in anime, but game hammers it even more).

Anyways, I do agree with the person (Nevri I think) who said that if the Mifuyu/Iroha/Yachiyo trio were composed of boys and girls instead of just girls, they'd be seen as exes and bf/gf and yes that double standard is really annoying.

Yes, it was me, Nevri!

And I can't properly understand the Amane sisters' story, I only have one of the two in-game :'( (the weak one :) ) I know they lived apart and found each other quite recently, but I don't know what their wish was.

Well Tsukuyo's story is almost identical to Tsukasa's, just from her point of view. But in short, they lived very stressful lives and had high expectations put on them, they couldn't copy with very well. Then they meet each other and become ones another support and person to vent to and feel at ease with, but over time they started to get annoyed at the differences between them (rich vs poor) and cut their friendship over them. They went back to their lives, but without place to vent, they started to accumulate stress again and as their old way to deal with it didn't work anymore after tasting the feeling of finding someone who can understand you perfectly, they both lost conscious from fatigue and overworking. In hospital they realized they need each other to survive, but since they were afraid they might argue like that again, in order to avoid it, they wished "to never again hate each other". So simply they're incapable of getting mad at each other.

I just wanna mention that the 13th episode had me go WTF every two minutes. What the heck, Kaede wasn't brainwashed in the game???? And those doppels weren't there in the game either? And they chased off Mami, Iroha didn't fall into some hole in the ground?

Welcome to the club.

The whole anime had me go ??? a lot of times with how they decided to randomly change some things like events leading to the discovery of the Seance Shrine

Personally I liked a lot of changes, I felt like they actually made sense and worked better than original, but the issue was it was too rushed and they had nowhere near enough time to flesh everything out, so in the end anime suffered because of it.

the miraculous water thing (why the Hell did Iroha drink that water? She's a magical girl, clearly those things were some familiars-lookalike, in the game it was just a normal dude with water, much more believable that Iroha would drink it, it was not in some creepy dark alley??), can someone tell me if I just misunderstood the game or if the anime really went YOLO?

Well in game the old guy was also created by Rumor. They explain it that before you're aware of its existence, they don't register to you. The same way in game and in anime those familiars spreading rumors could talk to girls and they were 100% sure they're talking to a friend, when Iroha and Felicia encountered the old guy/went to that shady place in anime, for the first time, they saw everything as normal. Anime could just show it as normal first and when they went back there later, as it really looked like, but they decided to go crazy from the get go. Iroha was simply unaware of it and to her it all looked normal. Took me a sec to realize it, but once I did it made perfect sense to me.

Lilliwyt posted:

(let's remember that for yuri, you have to read between the lines since they'd never say it outright 'cause it could loose them fans -_-)

Wouldn't that be the opposite thought ?

No? Yuri is niche within a niche. Unless series/franchise is primarily yuri, adding confirmed yuri is bad idea. That's why most CGDCS etc. have yuri subtext at best, but never confirm their character to be lesbian (confirming they're straight is fine) to not alienated potential viewers that might like character and want to imagine relationship with them (waifu'ing). Same for most games, especially gacha games. Yuri fans and potential LGBT people who would be happy for the inclusion are a vast minority compare to rest of fanbase that want characters to be straight. That's the main reason most anime has no on screen confirmed gay characters and subtext is so hated. Even clearly gay character are often not confirmed, so people who don't want to/don't see them as gay can see them as straight instead. And yuri fans will see subtext everywhere and ship them regardless if they're confirmed or not, so why should they bother going out of their way to confirm anything?

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 2:50PM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

Even clearly gay character are often not confirmed, so people who don't want to/don't see them as gay can see them as straight instead.

That's straight up homophobic and shouldn't be a thing.

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

Lilliwyt posted:

Even clearly gay character are often not confirmed, so people who don't want to/don't see them as gay can see them as straight instead.

That's straight up homophobic and shouldn't be a thing.

Tell me about it. Yet that's still how majority of world works. Right now pleasing LGBT people is seen as potential risk rather than gain, so it must be calculated very carefully before going for it. And 99 times out of 100, companies decide it's not worth it.

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

The point about companies being unwilling to commit to LGBT+ characters is something I always had a lot of difficulty getting across to people, because a lot of the time straight people who aren't particularly interested yuri or yaoi communities will dismiss the point entirely, saying that I am either reading too much into it or that I have a victim mentality over it, it is something I grown to appreciate Disney for in the most backwards way possible, they are so blatantly weasily about adding secondary LGBT characters who can be easily edited out for Chinese markets, that it makes it easy to get my point across.

With that out of the way, let's talk about more fun stuff, shall we?

Since the Wings in the Wind event came out, I've rapidly burned through it, as the world situation gives many of us a lot of free time these days, and I reached some key scenes towards the end, and... just this goddamn line from Shizuku... it is the type of line that is next to impossible to read without picking up on romantic context, and this got me completely on board that pairing even though I was unsure if they were necessarily it up till this point... it is always amusing when you come across the "Oh, so this is why this is a ship..." moments, y'now?

As a side thing, since I already finished the challenge quest ladder, a number of the side blurbs that change every 5 fights are connected and I had been screenshotting them, which I then cropped and compiled into an album, which I dubbed the Newsletter Arc, just a funny side thing to share since I know not everyone completes the ladder in these events.

One more thing, JP not too long ago released Ao Kasame, another of the Promised Blood girls, as playable, and her personal Memoria has an interesting detail... specifically look at the yellow and blue cars on the board... the funniest thing is that this is a joke MagiRepo did not too long ago...

joined Apr 23, 2020

Since we are discussing ships, someone explain to me why Yachiyo/Sana is decently popular ship on the JP? Is it the case of 'I like these two together so I ship it' or do they have meaningful interactions in the game?

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 10:53PM

Sakura Cartelet
Nights%20of%20azure%20avatar
joined May 28, 2016

While I don't dab too much into the JP side of the fanbase, my impression of Yachiyo/Sana is that they are teamates and respect each other with Yachiyo (and Iroha) sometimes acting as Sana and Felicia's parents so I guess it could be grounds for a ship (YachiSana). Having said that Sana seems to (romantically) like Iroha more than Yachiyo as seen in various chapters in the game.

@Nevri Yuri a niche within a Niche? From what I've seen yuri and (to a lesser degree?) yaoi are nowhere near as niche as they were in the past. Game developers such as Nintendo's recent Fire Emblem: Three Houses has included LGBT options (Yuri, Edelgard, Dorothea, Mercedes, Sothis, and Rhea) and the in development Story of Seasons game is supposed to have gay options. Non video game media also seems to be more willing to put (subtle) gay characters in them.

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 11:37PM

201049
joined Apr 23, 2020

Welcome to the club.

I would really love to talk to you about that whole paragraph (I read it all it was amazing), but we can't just fill this thread can we XD. Does Dynasty have some kind of private messaging system?

And yeah companies making LGBT+ main cast is like Disney promising Elsa will be gay : it will never happen XD. But I have the same problem that people just don't believe me when I try to explain to them why yuri barely ever is canon and why Citrus and YagaKimi are huge exception to the yuri genre. People come up in the last few months looking for 'things like Citrus' and I'm just like oof, good luck (and don't fuck it up, thanks Ru Paul). I see so much new yuri fans who hate subtext and I'm just like : you'll be SO disappointed, the whole community is just subtext ships everywhere. Like Love Live is huge but, there's no canon gay in it. Just a bunch of girls without boys anime.

Also have the same problem trying to explain to people why, as a girl, watching something with a male MC just isn't the same than with a female MC. Males MCs are so over-represented, makes me feel like girls just can't be MC meaning they kinda aren't important? Anyway that's just how I feel, but thank God for yuri with all those lady MCs!

And to respect that thread's initial goal, can we all agree that Alina is a-ma-zing through her whole crazyness? I just love her as a villain, no : I really hate the world and people and I want to be BAD. Nah she doesn't care about that, she just does her thing that makes HER happy, she manipulates whoever she wants, but then when we see her story in the game, she isn't exactly a bad person either? She's just that crazy artist kinda like Nietzsche who became crazy at the end of his life (because Syphilis) who sees the world completely differently. I can't put the right words on it, but I just love her. I love Touko as well, but she's kinda the classic : I'm bad because I do something for science that is seen as bad but is actually necessary for some people. But then again, no outright I'm just bad to be bad because I love to be bad. And Nemu... I don't know? We haven't seen her that much in game, can't really say anything about her.

I love villains like a purpose, the perfect example was the Wolkenritters in Nanoha season 2 (A's) who were just trying to save Hayate. Their actions actually benefits people, and in the case of the Magius, not just one person but a whole bunch of people. They might not be the majority of humanity, but they are a few hundreds? not sure how many megucas there are but still. Madoka Magica just has it with making good villains. (I loved Kyubey as a 'villain' though I don't really see them as a villain that much since as humans we do the same thing and would do the same if we could let's face it). And don't get me started on how fabulous Homura's character is, she never was a good person from the start, not a villain either exactly but like she would leave Sayaka to die (and so would I XD) and all the others to save Madoka. Alina and Homura (at the end of all her time loops) aren't all that different, they just don't express their feelings in the same way but at the core, they're similar. And I want MORE of Homucifer ASAP.

Sakura Cartelet
Nights%20of%20azure%20avatar
joined May 28, 2016

I don't like Homucifer in Rebellion given what I've read she does to Madoka and her friends. As for other versions of Homura, I think that Moemura (including her representation in this game) probably was a good if a bit on the timid side person at least compared to some characters in other fandoms and Homura's personality in later timelines.

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

Veya

it is something I grown to appreciate Disney for in the most backwards way possible, they are so blatantly weasily about adding secondary LGBT characters who can be easily edited out for Chinese markets, that it makes it easy to get my point across.

Oh yea. I noticed that too and it really pisses me off. Like they're officially so for LGBT representation and all that, but all their movies carefully avoid adding any major LGBT characters and the ones that are there, are easily removable. Same thing with Youtube and encouraging LGBT creators to us it, while demonetizing/hiding their content (and lying that they don't do it), because rest of the world don't like them and they want to appeal to other countries to use site as well.

Speaking of event, I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but I really hate Shizuku as a character (I read her side story). Also that's the issue with brainwashing. How I'm supposed to take seriously anything that happens to her and all the interactions she has right now, when I have no idea how much is influenced by it? I assume all it did was making her think Wings of the Magius is place she belongs, but I'm only assuming that...

Sakura Cartelet
@Nevri Yuri a niche within a Niche? From what I've seen yuri and (to a lesser degree?) yaoi are nowhere near as niche as they were in the past. Game developers such as Nintendo's recent Fire Emblem: Three Houses has included LGBT options (Yuri, Edelgard, Dorothea, Mercedes, Sothis, and Rhea) and the in development Story of Seasons game is supposed to have gay options. Non video game media also seems to be more willing to put (subtle) gay characters in them.

Oh it definitely got better in recent years. I'm not denying it. But still it's rather a exception than rule. Some companies are just more LGBT friendly than others, so I wouldn't really see it as a rising trend. Not yet anyway.

YuriForTheWin

(I read it all it was amazing)

Thanks! I put all my heart into it x3

I would really love to talk to you about that whole paragraph, but we can't just fill this thread can we XD. Does Dynasty have some kind of private messaging system?

Sadly it doesn't. It has IRC and Discord server, but I think it's fine to talk about it here. It's kinda the place for it + there are thread for series that have way longer discussions by few same people and some thread are for series that aren't even hosted on dynasty so.

And don't get me started on how fabulous Homura's character is, she never was a good person from the start, not a villain either exactly but like she would leave Sayaka to die (and so would I XD) and all the others to save Madoka. Alina and Homura (at the end of all her time loops) aren't all that different, they just don't express their feelings in the same way but at the core, they're similar.

Unless I'm terribly misreading OG series, I feel like a lot of people vastly misunderstands Homura's character. Even in the last timeline we see, aka the plot of animu, she's clearly not a bad person. People say how she never cared about anyone else than Madoka and she's fine with ignoring and leaving to die other character, but that's not true. In episode 3, she comes to kill Charlotte and tells Mami to let her handle it because she knows Mami will die. And when Mami binds her, she's clearly agitated and tries to stop her, because she don't want Mami to die (even when we see their first failed attempt at fighting Walpurgisnacht, she's clearly disturbed by Mami's death). Later when Kyouko and Sayaka are having their duel on the bridge and Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem away, Homura rushes to get it without skipping a beat. If she didn't care about her, she wouldn't even bother, yet her first instinct was to "save" her. And she was clearly angry at Kyuubey when he let Kyouko died, because again, she cares about them. Just over all her timelines, she never manged to save everyone and whenever she tried to tell them the truth, they didn't believe her, or worse, it backfired, so she gave up on trying to save everyone and only focused on Madoka, but she still tries to keep everyone safe. She just prioritizes Madoka first and tries to not show her emotions when others get killed (and well, seeing them die over and over definitely would numb anyone to the sight), but she still pretty much don't want them to die.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 4:37AM

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

So I feel I need to address a few points here...

Sakura Cartelet posted:
From what I've seen yuri and (to a lesser degree?) yaoi are nowhere near as niche as they were in the past.

This is actually true, things are improving, baby steps but they are, but things improving doesn't mean things are good yet, there is still a lot of ground to cover and Japan is still immensely homophobic,

Game developers such as Nintendo's recent Fire Emblem: Three Houses has included LGBT options

This is only poking the surface of the situation, here's a few other points to consider:

  1. The number of LGBT options are still significantly lower than the number of straight options.
  2. There is exactly one entire male same-sex option in the entire base game.
  3. Even taking in account DLC, there is still fewer male same-sex options than there are female same-sex options.
  4. And this is the most important point, all the same-sex options are bisexual, I am not trying to say bi people are not LGBT by any means, but rather that that it is done in a way that doesn't deprive straight players of anything(going back to Nevri's point about "waifu'ing"), and this would not be a problem if every single S-Support was a bi option(at that point it would be just keeping the playing field option to all players), but the way it is done is such that straight options have this entire banquet, and same-sex options have a few select scraps from said banquet.

This goes back to what I said about baby steps, is this better than not having it? yes, but it is still not brilliant, and the concesions made to make this happen at all are visible once you put it up to scrutiny, while also not taking away from Nintendo's willingness to have it at all, again, it is better than to not have and there is an effort to make something happen within limitations.

Sakura Cartelet posted:
I don't like Homucifer in Rebellion given what I've read she does to Madoka and her friends.

Okay I need to know, what the hell did you read? there is a lot of horribly uncharitable interpretations of Homura's actions in Rebellion out there, when the only objectively negative she did was to forcibly separate Madoka from the Law of Cycles, and even that has a lot, and I mean a lot, of factual information riding in Homura's favor, most notably that being god was goddamn awful, being horribly lonely and oppressive, Madoka was hanging by a thread and, as Madokami's own Personal Memoria in MagiReco points out, Homura trying to make things work during Wraith Arc(which ultimately failed, which is why Rebellion happened in first place) was the last thing holding her together.

I have always been of mind that if Homura had simply sit up, and asked Madoka to go back with her, Madoka would've at that point, and that's Homura's only true mistake, she was simply desperate to make anything work at that point, and she was not about to risk letting Madoka's self-sacrificing nature stop her.

YuriForTheWin posted:
(I loved Kyubey as a 'villain' though I don't really see them as a villain that much since as humans we do the same thing and would do the same if we could let's face it)

Okay let me stop you right there, a human doing what Kyubey does would still be pretty vile, even his livestock analogy is incredibly flawed when you consider what becoming a Witch actually means, it isn't just dying, it is having your very soul warped by literal physical suffering and despair, and becoming an eldritch abomination can and often will harm your very loved ones... the only way the livestock analogy would work would be if the only way humans killed cows for consumption was through intense systematic torture.

And I want MORE of Homucifer ASAP.

Oh absolutely, I am really hoping she will be the next Ultimate type character for MagiReco as she is my ultimate goal for this game, and I have a lot saved up to bring her to 4 slots when the time comes.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 4:19AM

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

Speaking of event, I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but I really hate Shizuku as a character (I read her side story).

Could you elaborate on what you hate about her? the way I understand Shizuku, she is an incredibly paranoid person by nature, and that leads to her feeling restless and uneasy anywhere she is at, thus feeling she doesn't belong anywhere, Ayaka works for her because her sheer energy floods Shizuku's mind and prevents her paranoia from setting, allowing her to feel at ease at those moments, and her arc in this event was coming to realize why this happens.

Also that's the issue with brainwashing. How I'm supposed to take seriously anything that happens to her and all the interactions she has right now, when I have no idea how much is influenced by it?

I feel you are right about the extent of the brainwashing, but I also feel that the narrative is set up in such a way that it doesn't matter how much it was affecting her, the entire final sequence as Shizuku escapes Fendt Hope happens after she breaks out of the brainwashing(precisely, it breaks once she realizes how important Ayaka is to her), and it is clear she still remembers everything that happened in that time, and those experiences will still influence her moving forward.

Unless I'm terribly misreading OG series, I feel like a lot of people vastly misunderstands Homura's character.

Oh hey, someone else that gets it! something important to remember is that to Homura, all those people are her closest friends, and while Madoka is the most important person to her as the person she loves, it still hurts her a lot every time she had to watch any of the other three die.

I feel a huge part of the problem is that people take what Homura says at face value and often ignore how she acts, it's like her entire "mwahahaha I am so evil" speech at the end of Rebellion, and how I feel that anyone who falls for it got played by a 14 year old, even the first time watching it I felt I could see right through her and how her words completely mismatch the world she created...

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 6:44AM

201049
joined Apr 23, 2020

Oh hey, someone else that gets it! something important to remember is that to Homura, all those people are her closest friends, and while Madoka is the most important person to her as the person she loves, it still hurts her a lot every time she had to watch any of the other three die.

I feel a huge part of the problem is that people take what Homura says at face value and often ignore how she acts, it's like her entire "mwahahaha I am so evil" speech at the end of Rebellion, and how I feel that anyone who falls for it got played by a 14 year old, even the first time watching it I felt I could see right through her and how her words completely mismatch the world she created...

Please bear in mind that I'm talking about anime/Rebellion Homura, the one that might be 80 years old now out of having redone that fateful month hundreds of times. Clearly if we take glasses Homura, yes she wants to save everyone and all. (What's your personal guess on how many times she looped? I personally think that the meager 5 times we see in anime isn't enough for such a character development to take place.)

The nature of Homura's actions is something that was quite debated, seeing how a lot of people consider she only registers the others characters except for Madoka because their death/something bad happening to them would sadden Madoka and might provoke her to make a wish. While I do agree she cares about them to a certain extent, I always felt like Homura appeared to save the situation before Madoka had to make a wish. If she really cared about the others, she'd try to prevent Sayaka as well from becoming a Magical Girl for example, but she doesn't. For Mami and Kyouko she can't do anything about it though.

And what I meant about the fact that at the end of all her time loops she's kinda like Alina was not so much that she's evil and bad but has the same sense of selfishness that drives her actions. It just so happens that Homura's selfishness is less human consuming than Alina's XD. I don't believe she would be taking the form of an 'evil' creature when she separates Madoka and Godoka if she was doing it out of pure : poor Madoka she's lonely. Though I don't believe doing something for your own benefit immediately equates it's bad.

And if the Wings of Magius were a thing in the original series, Homura would have ended up joining them at some point I'm quite sure, maybe as a way to make sure Madoka survives as a magical girl instead of her not becoming one (though she could still die fighting whatever would be left after the Magius' new order overtook the world).

In short, the only thing I wanna say is that Homura isn't benevolent like Madoka was when she made her wish. That's what I meant when I said 'she isn't a good person', I never meant to imply she was a bad person. Most people are situated between those two extremes, but knowing whether Homura is slightly more towards the 'good' part or 'bad' part of the continuum? Really depends on which Homura you consider.

And about cows, let's not forget we forcibly make them pregnant to take their milk, which isn't meant for us since humans artificially developed the capacity to digest milk as adults, take their child to kill them or enslave them if they're females to do the same process, and when these cows aren't profitable enough anymore, we kill them. They might be well treated in some places, the same way magical girls have a wish granted and gain supernatural powers, but in the end, it's all an illusion. I don't mean to go on a vegan tirade here, I am not even vegan XD, but it's a fact we act exactly like Kyubey. We could almost extrapolate on how certain humans stand way above other humans and might not enslave them but...

And I agree with all the above about FE3H and such, I watched an f!Byleth x Edelgard walkthrough and honestly, it took them everything to get the words 'I love you' out of Edelgard lips (does she even say it?) while with M!Byleth it's much easier to get there. Also, with the few female romance options of F!Byleth, it's even a minority with whom it's clearly stated they are a couple or married. Most of the time, it's just very vague comments. Those LGBT characters felt so token it was saddening. When you feel a LGBT character is there only to get some more money instead of genuinely wanting to have LGBT stories in your game/show/whatever, it just doesn't work for me.

201049
joined Apr 23, 2020

Finally I was able to post, at first I was detected as spam -_- it's just lenghty XD.

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

Okay let's go by parts.

To start with, I agree that Homura is an inherently neutral person, but I seem to disagree what said neutrality means, because I have the perspective that doing something for the sake of someone who is very close and dear to you is still a selfish action.

(What's your personal guess on how many times she looped? I personally think that the meager 5 times we see in anime isn't enough for such a character development to take place.)

Oh, that's easy, 104, this is actually something OG Homura's personal story in MagiReco clarifies, the difference between the two Homuras isn't the number of loops, it is rather that the third time loop played out different for the two of them, because of one specific choice Homura made: Glasses Homura never tried to warn the others about Witchfication ahead of time, this key aspect prevented animosity from building between her and the others, and most importantly prevent Homura from believing that she was the cause of the deaths in this timeline for trying to help them, things still went poorly, Mami still freaked out, but Homura was no longer the cause of any of this, and thus she processes all of this very differently, and thus she is able to still see good in trying to help others, instead of believing it would only bring more harm.

If she really cared about the others, she'd try to prevent Sayaka as well from becoming a Magical Girl for example

I don't think she would ever do that, and it has nothing to do with caring or not caring about Sayaka, the reason Homura was so decided to not let Madoka contract under any circumstance isn't because it is impossible to live out your life as a meguca, we know it is for a fact, Yachiyo has been at it for 7 years, but rather because in timeline 3 Madoka made her promise very specifically that she wouldn't let her contract again, "save me from my own stupidity", were the words.

Timeline 3 is an immensely pivotal moment for Homura and it had a greater impact on her than the rest of the time loops combined...

I don't believe she would be taking the form of an 'evil' creature when she separates Madoka and Godoka if she was doing it out of pure : poor Madoka she's lonely.

Except she didn't take such form, everything that claims Homura is such an "evil creature" comes entirely from Homura herself, she claims she is the devil because she is the one who "betrayed god"(fun fact: Homura used to go to a Catholic school in Tokyo before moving to Mitakihara, she most likely had Bible studies class and it is likely where this comes from for her), she claims she is evil because she had to harm Madoka for Madoka's own sake, and in Homura's eyes, harming Madoka is the worst thing anyone can do, this is all self-loathing through and through for what she had to do, not objective claims that she is evil now.

And if the Wings of Magius were a thing in the original series, Homura would have ended up joining them at some point I'm quite sure

I really don't think so... a lot of what the Magius does would not ring well with her, it goes beyond her usual "I care for these people and these people only" mentality and into objectively causing harm to others who are uninvolved in her conflict, which is something Homura never did at any point, the only person she ever killed in the loops was Oriko, and only because Oriko really forced her hand.

As a final thoughts, I firmly do not believe Homura ever truly changed in any way, she became more cynical and desperate over time, and more willing to compromise what she could do to make anything work, but if you really pay attention to it, even the precious optimistic glasses Homura constantly resonates opinions and perspectives that Homura held onto even as far as Rebellion.

7mhwdksyioput0ufrs_lbgsibau7y7oimbujcjgvlxw
joined Oct 17, 2019

Unless I'm terribly misreading OG series, I feel like a lot of people vastly misunderstands Homura's character. Even in the last timeline we see, aka the plot of animu, she's clearly not a bad person. People say how she never cared about anyone else than Madoka and she's fine with ignoring and leaving to die other character, but that's not true. In episode 3, she comes to kill Charlotte and tells Mami to let her handle it because she knows Mami will die. And when Mami binds her, she's clearly agitated and tries to stop her, because she don't want Mami to die (even when we see their first failed attempt at fighting Walpurgisnacht, she's clearly disturbed by Mami's death). Later when Kyouko and Sayaka are having their duel on the bridge and Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem away, Homura rushes to get it without skipping a beat. If she didn't care about her, she wouldn't even bother, yet her first instinct was to "save" her. And she was clearly angry at Kyuubey when he let Kyouko died, because again, she cares about them. Just over all her timelines, she never manged to save everyone and whenever she tried to tell them the truth, they didn't believe her, or worse, it backfired, so she gave up on trying to save everyone and only focused on Madoka, but she still tries to keep everyone safe. She just prioritizes Madoka first and tries to not show her emotions when others get killed (and well, seeing them die over and over definitely would numb anyone to the sight), but she still pretty much don't want them to die.

I think you are massively misunderstanding Homura's reactions, Homura only helped others because she didn't want to see Madoka suffer, remember what she said to Sayaka in episode 8?

She said that she doesn't care what happens to Sayaka, she was only trying to help Sayaka so that Madoka didn't get upset and that she would be fine with killing Sayaka if it stops Madoka getting upset (Sayaka disappearing would upset Madoka much less than knowing that Sayaka turned into a witch)

She also wanted people to stay alive because they would help fight Walpurgisnacht

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 11:00AM

Sakura Cartelet
Nights%20of%20azure%20avatar
joined May 28, 2016

@Veya A lot of the sites that I've read about Homura (in Rebellion) tend to portray her as being abusive or a sadistic monster. From what I've read here it doesn't seem to be the case.

Rabu2
joined Apr 22, 2019

@Veya A lot of the sites that I've read about Homura (in Rebellion) tend to portray her as being abusive or a sadistic monster. From what I've read here it doesn't seem to be the case.

Abusive? Sadistic? Ridiculous. She jumped to conclusions and didn't ask permission to fix a problem that might have not been there, sure. But everyone is better off because of it (except Homura herself, but that adds to the depth of the character).

That said, a sequel to Rebellion will have to address her new... instability.
Actually, I was wondering if Magia Record could be said sequel in disguise... Maybe Akuma Homura manipulated the game's timeline to create an alternative to the Law of Cycles... And found one with the Doppel system.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 1:23PM

Sakura Cartelet
Nights%20of%20azure%20avatar
joined May 28, 2016

I suppose that could be a possibility given than in Ultimate Madoka's side story she states that this timeline is an irregularity in that it's the only one where: Touka, Nemu, and Ui live and Iroha contracts. That and this is one that she can't directly intervene in either- although she does seem to be able to indirectly influence the timeline- including by sending some "representatives" like Nagisa.

As for Devil Homura, her VA said something about it being worked on a while back (or so I heard) so I suppose it's only a matter of time. Probably around the anniversary in JP Magia Record this year?

Concerning "Cool" Homura, yeah I know it's mostly a mask that she uses to cover her "inner Moemura" given all of the timelines she's been through (including ones that weren't shown).

On an unrelated note, if yuri subtext is only hinted at what does that make yuri SuperText?

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 1:54PM

Rabu2
joined Apr 22, 2019

On an unrelated note, if yuri subtext is only hinted at what does that make yuri SuperText?

Well, that happens when a girl openly says she rewrote reality out of love (for another girl).
And then proceeds to curbstomp a little alien conniver into the ground.

Holdingsmall
joined Jan 15, 2020

Actually, I was wondering if Magia Record could be said sequel in disguise... Maybe Akuma Homura manipulated the game's timeline to create an alternative to the Law of Cycles... And found one with the Doppel system.

A leading theory for me and my friends for a while now has been that the entire MagiReco universe is Devil Homura's experiment to prove that the Law of Cycles is unecessary and that there could be a better alternative to it, keeping interference at an absolute bare minimum, simply move one pebble out of its intended location and have everything spiral into place, and that Madokami's personal story is deliberate misdirection, oh yes, this is absolutely the result of Homura's time loops, but not the Homura we are thinking of...

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 3:02PM

Sakura Cartelet
Nights%20of%20azure%20avatar
joined May 28, 2016

I really like Tan0's Yachiyo/Tsuruno fanart. Their art style is really cute and reminds me of Variangel's cute Love Live related fanart (Variangel also does Yachiyo/Iroha fanart).

Rabu2
joined Apr 22, 2019

[...] and that Madokami's personal story is deliberate misdirection, oh yes, this is absolutely the result of Homura's time loops, but not the Homura we are thinking of...

That Madokami could be the one that got split from her human side, without memory of the "Rebellion" and unknowingly operating under Akuma Homura's supervision... And perhaps she can't interfere with the MagiReco timeline because Homura is preventing her...

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