That they were stopped doesn't excuse them attempting the scheme.

But they were also themselves at their worst, and they can't regret what didn't actually happened, they were stopped, but they wouldn't have planned the scheme now, that they have their full memories experiences, just because they weren't brainwashed doesn't mean they aren't different from who they are as their complete selves.

You are acting like saying she doesn't regret what happened also means she isn't thankful that she was stopped before things got that much worse, which isn't what she is saying at all... this is something Iroha specifically points out at one point, that she had to stop Touka and Nemu so that they aren't burdened by the consequence of their actions once they regained their memories.

but the Magius have been raising witches as part of their project - and it's well established those kill people.

It was also established that they were raising witches themselves, keeping them in Uwasa labyrinths and Alina's cubes, and growing them by feeding Grief Seeds(both by hunting Grief Seeds themselves, and buying them off Mitama) and weaker Witches to them, the Witches they were raising were not out in the loose.

Also how can they explain why random teenage girls are allowed to stay behind in a city instead of having their parents (or government officials) take them out with them?

Because those girls were not with their parents, evacuation warnings came in late afternoon on a Friday(we know the calendar thanks to the original anime, right now in-story is April 30th which is a Saturday) when most those girls would be expected to be hanging out with their friends, and the Magius disabled cellphone towers so they can't directly contact them, their parents at this point can only hope they actually evacuated, this is actually briefly addressed when we get a scene with Tsuruno's father, when he said she was (supposed to be) at Yachiyo's so he expects her to have actually evacuated as well.

The huge thing here is that these girls, this handful of girls who when push comes to shove don't even represent 1% of teenage girls in the city are megucas, they know what is happening isn't actually a storm and is actually two super Witches(well, one super Witch and one super half-Witch) getting super close to clashing, they know to ignore the warnings because they will be needed in the fight.

Also I can't account for people who ignored evacuation warnings, but at some point, if you know there is a massive storm coming, you have taken the risk and you should be the one held accountable to what happens to you, even if the Magius pulled the trigger...

last edited at Jun 21, 2020 11:36PM

Let me guess they disabled the cell phone towers in such a manner that nobody from the cell phone companies, their technicians, or the general public noticed that they were disabled? That too is total nonsense unless people running the companies (and the non-magical girl population) are total buffoons in which case they shouldn't be working there. They also should've noticed that someone was trying to do this and blocked or traced them to their source which would (likely) lead to the magical girls (mainly the Magius and their cronies) being arrested and/or jailed.

Also I can't account for people who ignored evacuation warnings, but at some point, if you know there is a massive storm coming, you have taken the risk and you should be the one held accountable to what happens to you, even if the Magius pulled the trigger...

Keep in mind that not everybody in cities as big as Kamihama has access to transportation, anywhere to go from the city, or the money needed to spend when they get to to wherever they were going. Just look at what happened back in New Orleans when Katrina hit many years back.

Touka's main magia is energy conversion, it isn't impossible to imagine she prepared an attack that companies had simply no way to predict, rapidly repair, or trace back, simply because it is extremely out of context to what muggles understand, it is one of those narrative contrivances where how she did it doesn't matter but we can easily accept that she could have done it.

cities as big as Kamihama

Kamihama isn't that big a city, we know most of the city is within walking distance because the character have crossed the city on foot several times during the story, as long as the streets aren't blocked(which we know they aren't) there is no reason for you to not just walk to the evacuation centers, Japan is also known to have far better evacuation measures than most countries since it is a country extremely prone to natural disasters due to its geographical location, so we can expect it to fare far better.

Do note we have a rather recent real life point of reference, Typhoon Hagibis hit Japan in a much greater area than Walpurgis and Eve combined could, and it had a death tool of 98, which while is still a terrible loss of life, it is an absolutely tiny amount relative to how many people were affected by it, it is really not hard to imagine a single city getting hit by a natural disaster could get away with it with zero casaulities thanks to preparations in place.

last edited at Jun 21, 2020 11:53PM

While on 1 hand I agree it's unrealistic to say nobody ever died because of Magius schemes (all people affected/abducted by Rumors sure as hell aren't alive) and Touka did say she wasn't brainwashed and think her actions were her own, I still don't think it's fair to hold them responsible for what they did. While it was based on their basic personalities, it wasn't nowhere near what they truly are like. As I said before, under normal circumstances they would never decided to do something like that or go as far just to achieve their dreams. The only reason they did, was because they decided to put their lives on line and do it no matter what for Iroha and all magical girls, but the second Ui disappeared, that goal stopped making sense, so it had to be forcefully replace with something else, aka their personal ambitions, but the part about doing it no matter what stayed the same. So they still were brainwashed to a degree, even if it was more subtle. I don't even think it's matter of "they're 11 years old". Even ignoring that during initial flashback, you can see Touka and Nemu clearly caring for Ui and Iroha and acting like nice people, the perfect example of it is after Touka regains her memories. Instantly from megalomaniac entitled brat, she immediately starts acting polite, helps out Iroha and in general is actively trying to undone what they have done. The Touka we saw so far was clearly a different character.

Also wow, so we rushed entire story but they don't rush anniversary? We got only Madokami (well works for me, more time to save for IroYachi, though I already saved for 200 rolls). Also it's so clear that's where she was meant to debut for the first time, because only now they explain EX skill and double Magia. Also didn't expect Ashley next banner to be so fast. What a dick move, cos they again force people to choose between Madokami or Ashley. Also I totally called that we'll get her doppel at later date, but we won't be waiting too long. Also now they add first time auto to episode stories, after I finally managed to clear all of them >.>

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 11:05AM

I don't even think it's matter of "they're 11 years old".

This is the one point that I have to disagree with what you said, the fact they are 11 only makes what they went through much worse, simply because they were that young, they were incredibly sheltered due to their frail health, they didn't have a lot of experiences that didn't involve Ui and Iroha, not only those two are the biggest positive influence in their lives, but removing them removes a massive chunk of their true selves, someone in their 20s might have had more experiences to draw upon and not have fallen as far or as quickly as they did.

This is all coupled with the fact that at 11 years old you are still forming concepts of empathy and morality, as people often forget those things are learned and not inherent to people, all factors combined just exacerbate things far worse than they could've been to an older person.

Also wow, so we rushed entire story but they don't rush anniversary? We got only Madokami (well works for me, more time to save for IroYachi, though I already saved for 200 rolls)

People are speculating YachIro, along with all limited banners, for Aniplex Online Fest, and that Anniversary is being split in two parts as a result, so don't hold your breath quite yet...

Also now they add first time auto to episode stories, after I finally managed to clear all of them >.>

Tell me about it... at least we will have them moving forward...

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 11:10AM

Veya posted:

I don't even think it's matter of "they're 11 years old".

This is the one point that I have to disagree with what you said

Oh I meant more, we don't even need to explain it by their age. Even if they were adults, i'd still say they weren't entirely responsible. I agree them being 11 years old, makes the matter worse, but their age isn't the only thing that excuses them.

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 11:20AM

I have 230ish rolls, I am not sure if I want to go for my finale Ashley slot or go for a 2 slot IrohaYachiyo

I am also saving up for a possible Symphogear collab, I would hate to not have enough rolls if it ever happens (it is actually pretty likely, both Magia Record and Symphogear have collabed with Nanoha)

@Nevri Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreting what you are saying here, but it sounds like you are trying to excuse what the Magius did based on what their end goal of "saving" magical girls and age as somehow being acceptable. Frankly to me it doesn't matter how old they are or aren't or what their circumstances were, it doesn't make using rumors to lure in muggles or attacking and trying to kill fellow magical girls okay just because they want to "save" them by using the Doppel system- which of course only extends to Kamihama and not the rest of the world meaning any magical girl outside the city is still screwed since no doppels and no hope for salvation from an external force (Ultimate Madoka). There's also the fact that even with the Doppel system, magical girls can still die if their soul gem is destroyed.

There's also the fact that even with the Doppel system, magical girls can still die if their soul gem is destroyed.

This point... doesn't add anything though, that would be like saying you shouldn't try to prevent diseases because people can still trip and crack their head open on the edge of a sink, everyone can die easily if you hit their vital points hard enough and megucas simply happen to have a different vital point than muggles, it still stands that Witching out is a far worse fate than death, and a normal death is preferable. (the KMR trio literally make this pact in the main story, if any of them is ever about to Witch out, one of the other two is meant to kill her before it can happen, and we know this sort of pact is very common among megucas who know the truth)

And to be clear, a Soul Gem isn't an additional vital point, it is the only vital point a meguca has, as long as their soul Gem is not damaged, a meguca can survive virtually anything, it is even confirmed that if Mami's soul gem wasn't located on her head, Charlotte biting her head off would not have killed her, but that it would've taken a massive amount of magic for her to regenerate her head.

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 3:39PM

Well the trauma from having her head eaten probably would have turned her into a witch

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 3:55PM by

And to be clear, a Soul Gem isn't an additional vital point, it is the only vital point a meguca has, as long as their soul Gem is not damaged, a meguca can survive virtually anything

Which is why I'm a bit confused by Nemu's and Alina's life-shortening magic. What happens to the Soul Gems when they expend all their life force? Do they shatter on their own?

Well the trauma from having her head eaten probably would have turned her into a witch

Well, she would probably be in comatose until her head regenerated enough to re-enable brain functions, and the process would take long and need a ton of Grief Seeds to complete, meaning it would likely not be viable to make it happen in first place.

Which is why I'm a bit confused by Nemu's and Alina's life-shortening magic. What happens to the Soul Gems when they expend all their life force? Do they shatter on their own?

I got nothing, this is one of those things that the full extend of the rules around souls aren't proper explained.

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 4:18PM

@Veya Somehow I don't think magical girls are as invincible as you think they are. Other than location of their soul they are physically not much different that normal humans. They still grow old, can get diseases as shown by Mifuyu getting sick during Touka's side story, are not much faster or stronger than normal humans (in an untransformed state), still susceptible to injury...

Them being "that invincible" isn't the point, my point was more acting like the fact they can still die doesn't dismiss the point that preventing them from becoming Witches is still a massive deal...

Also megucas are that much faster and stronger than normal humans, even ignoring the original anime that has Homura being a little too powerful in PE class, we have plenty of examples within MagiReco, like Iroha being strong enough to carry Yachiyo to bed without waking her up(you can clearly read from context they would be untransformed in this situation), and Iroha randomly doing acrobatics that go far beyond olympic level for fun in the anime.

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 5:42PM

All of those things are still things non-magical people could do given sufficient training and or exercise. Note I said normal not what an average Jane could do. Also from what I remember in the original series characters couldn't use magic- including magically enhancing their own abilities unless they are transformed. Also I don't remember either scene occurring in the game which likely means that's a non-canon ability.

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 5:57PM

All of those things are still things non-magical people could do given sufficient training and or exercise. Note I said normal not what an average Jane could do. Also from what I remember in the original series characters couldn't use magic- including magically enhancing their own abilities unless they are transformed. Also I don't remember either scene occurring in the game which likely means that's a non-canon ability.

Nope, Mami used magic when she wasn't transformed in Rebellion to tie a ribbon on Homura's leg (I think someone also used magic untransformed in the first season but I can't remember when)

Yachiyo also used magic untransformed in the manga

^ Now I'm curious as to the context...

You can just read it yourself, if you are curious., but do keep in mind the manga only goes up to Seance Shrine so far, which is like chapter 3 of the main story.

@Veya
@YarnGirl

Thanks

@YarnGirl Apparently they can use some limited magic when untransformed like calling out her weapon by touching the soul gem... I think Kyoko did this in the original anime. But still most of their abilities are not usable when not transformed- otherwise why would they use cell phones instead of telepathy to communicate with each other? Also why would they bother transforming at all if they had full access to their powers regardless of transformation state?

Also compared to the Fate universe's servants magical girls are not that much above humans... ie. no running 400+ km/h, no lifting 2+ ton things, no noble phantasms like Ea or Excalibur... Also unlike servants (excluding pseudo or demi servants like Mash), magical girls still need to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom and other similar things.

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 6:36PM

That is because telepathy has a pretty short range, remember when Sayaka had to go into the labyrinth because they didn't have Mami's number

I think they have to transform to properly use their magic though (and its like armour for them)

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 6:40PM by

The thing I've been wondering about though is that most of the magical girls were not soldiers and have no combat training before they became magical girls yet they somehow know both how to fight using their weapons and don't crack under pressure like a real life teenager would likely do if they were put in similar circumstances...

Edit: Here's Ultimate Kako. Can any (magical) girl resist her harem powers?

last edited at Jun 22, 2020 7:35PM

Most probably do crack pretty quickly, that is how there are so many witches.