People defending Remi seem to focus on her aggressive sexuality, and completely ignore how much of an asshole she is. Like, yeah, it was Sachi's choice to fuck around for an entire goddamn month and ignore Ruki completely, but Remi went after her explicitly because she wanted to dirty up their innocent little romance. Like, she literally says that. She thought it was adorable that they were trying to make something work, so she aggressively went after Sachi because she REALLY liked the idea of taking this cute girl with a bad history and a burgeoning love and wrecking that shit, moulding her in her own image, while the girl who's actually in love toils away in ignorance. And then, she doesn't simply tell Ruki about it, she goes on a fucking parade with it. Specifically so she can watch Ruki's face as she's crushed. This isn't a sexually uninhibited hedonist in it for fun, this is someone who actively tries to hurt people for her own twisted pleasure. And happens to be the fucking hero of the manga.

I appreciate the spoilers. It kind of confirms for me the most disturbing thing about Remi and her role in the story: she's really supposed to be right. After all the shit she pulls, she doesn't just escape any kind of personal consequence or repercussions, the shit she leaves behind doesn't even stink. She completely alienates Meru over the porn video at a point when she needed support from her friends, but it's okay because she rapes the girl who probably started some rumours, so everything is magically fixed. She gouges a fucking hole in Ruki and Sachi's relationship, but what do you know, turned out it was incredibly valuable and necessary for Sachi's development as a person, and now their relationship is totally great and even better than it was before.

Nothing she does is allowed to go wrong, nobody she hurts is allowed to dislike her, she fucks anyone she feels like fucking without fail, and the author refuses to ruffle a single hair on her head. The real problem with Remi isn't that she's promiscuous, or even that she's a horrible, horrible person. The problem with Remi is that the whole fucking world twists itself into impossible shapes to fit her whims, ensuring that everything she does is awesome, that nobody ever meaningfully questions what she's doing or why she's doing it. She's literally at Edward Cullen or Christian Grey-levels of fucking awful person treated as untouchably perfect by author fiat, and she makes everyone around her more disgusting and more hateful just from their unwillingness to go against her. It's trashy writing from an author I really, really liked, and I feel like it's poisoning my opinion of the stuff she's written that I used to enjoy. Ugh.

Edit: Apparently I don't understand how spoiler tags work. Should be fine now. Christ, I'm so worked up about this, what am I even doing with my life.

why is nobody responding to this? this outlines the underlying problem with remi's character and the manga in general.
Remi is literally a mary sue.

Because is incredibly on point and there isn't a lot to add.

I did found funny that Edward and Grey were used as example though. Grey IS Edward with the serial filed off.

You guys seriously need to chill. If you're that upset over a manga, please move on to other series you have an interest in. It's getting increasingly frustrating reading such comments on a manga I genuinely like.

Wise words

Bitches and Whores: The Manga: The Experience: The Ride.

Hahahaha!!

edit: I feel sorry for Remi, she's like that person no one really loves or cares for but are greatful to... in the end. even though she's an asshole, she's also the catalyst for the change those characters want but can't make on their own. I dislike Sacchan way more

Totally agree

If sachi and ruki together in the end, hands down tragedy. Happily ever after my ass.

At the rate things are going, Sachi and Ruki are impossible unless we get a time-skip to cover up all the poop that hit the fan. -_-
Remi's a bastard.

this series is honestly going nowhere fast. . . . i'm more bored than anything at this point

It's trashy writing from an author I really, really liked, and I feel like it's poisoning my opinion of the stuff she's written that I used to enjoy. Ugh.

yeah, this is the part that's most disappointing :c

last edited at Feb 5, 2015 11:12PM

Angst should be included in the tags.

Angst should be included in the tags.

But forum posts don't have ta....

Oh! Oh, I see what you mean. Nevermind.

You guys seriously need to chill. If you're that upset over a manga, please move on to other series you have an interest in. It's getting increasingly frustrating reading such comments on a manga I genuinely like.

x2.

Actually, x3, x4, and x5 for other people I'm comfortable saying that for, who've chosen to avoid the comments for this specifically because of the rage at hand.

I'm not against negative commentary in the least, but enough is enough. Amano is not suddenly the antichrist because she wrote a harsh, realistic series. Even if things are as bad as some make them out to be, does literary justice really exist in the real world?

You guys seriously need to chill. If you're that upset over a manga, please move on to other series you have an interest in. It's getting increasingly frustrating reading such comments on a manga I genuinely like.

x2.

Actually, x3, x4, and x5 for other people I'm comfortable saying that for, who've chosen to avoid the comments for this specifically because of the rage at hand.

I'm not against negative commentary in the least, but enough is enough. Amano is not suddenly the antichrist because she wrote a harsh, realistic series. Even if things are as bad as some make them out to be, does literary justice really exist in the real world?

While perfect Justice doesn't exist on the real world, people isn't that stupid and passive. Specially on a group of friends like the protagonists.

As for realism, well, realistically at least one of the girls would've called Remi on her bullshit and ditch her by now.

Angst should be included in the tags.

But forum posts don't have ta....

Oh! Oh, I see what you mean. Nevermind.

Best. Post. Ever.

Gotta say that I kind of agree that Sachi is worse than Remi. At least Remi is open with her lack of commitments, whereas Sachi knowingly slept with someone else for about a month and didn't even have the decency to apologise for it. I guess you could argue that Remi had an obligation as a friend to Ruki to turn Sachi down, but Sachi was clearly the one with the intent.

I also don't think having two totally unrepentant characters, one of which seems to exist purely to piss everyone off, is an example of "realism", honestly. As one of the posters above me said, there's no way the friend group would collectively put up with this kind of consistent behaviour for so long. Sure, absolute justice doesn't exist in the real world, but there are still social consequences for your actions, and Remi seems pretty immune to both of them. That's not realistic, that's lazy writing.

Seems to me Shuninta got bored of this series and couldn't be bothered resolving it properly. Maybe it was cancelled. I dunno.

last edited at Feb 6, 2015 5:47AM

While perfect Justice doesn't exist on the real world, people isn't that stupid and passive. Specially on a group of friends like the protagonists.

As for realism, well, realistically at least one of the girls would've called Remi on her bullshit and ditch her by now.

Uh, no, it's not unrealistic for someone to have codependency issues, to sleep with someone else while in a vaguely defined relationship, to try to sabotage a relationship because you're scared to break up with the person, or to put off a difficult conversation past the point it's healthy.

It's also not unrealistic to stand by your friend even though she has a lot of sex. As much as people are like I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST SLUTS BUT MAN REMI IS JUST A TOTAL SLUT, I don't believe for a second that if she was doing something other than sex, people would be as mad at her as they are.

You're misreading me.

I'm not saying that Ruki or Sacchan should stand up at Remi. I'm saying that realistically speaking Remi's actions would've motived SOMEONE to stand up at Remi.

Friendships are broken and enemies met by far less in real life.

I think you all are going nuts over nothing.

Saving the astronomical distances this manga is pretty much like Evangelion. All the characters are broken in some way. The only problem is that the target audience isn't getting what it is looking for or a pleasing surprise in other aspects of the work.

Remi is a bitch, Sacchan is a selfish barbie, Ruki is a punch bag, Fue a frigid deadpan, Asuna a sex addict, Meru a braindead mess and Masaa a walking porcupine dilemma.

None of the couples is made for each other.

^ I personally think Meru and Masa are perfect for each other don't know if it happens but at least nothing bad happen between them

last edited at Feb 6, 2015 2:26PM

People defending Remi seem to focus on her aggressive sexuality, and completely ignore how much of an asshole she is. Like, yeah, it was Sachi's choice to fuck around for an entire goddamn month and ignore Ruki completely, but Remi went after her explicitly because she wanted to dirty up their innocent little romance. Like, she literally says that. She thought it was adorable that they were trying to make something work, so she aggressively went after Sachi because she REALLY liked the idea of taking this cute girl with a bad history and a burgeoning love and wrecking that shit, moulding her in her own image, while the girl who's actually in love toils away in ignorance. And then, she doesn't simply tell Ruki about it, she goes on a fucking parade with it. Specifically so she can watch Ruki's face as she's crushed. This isn't a sexually uninhibited hedonist in it for fun, this is someone who actively tries to hurt people for her own twisted pleasure. And happens to be the fucking hero of the manga.

I appreciate the spoilers. It kind of confirms for me the most disturbing thing about Remi and her role in the story: she's really supposed to be right. After all the shit she pulls, she doesn't just escape any kind of personal consequence or repercussions, the shit she leaves behind doesn't even stink. She completely alienates Meru over the porn video at a point when she needed support from her friends, but it's okay because she rapes the girl who probably started some rumours, so everything is magically fixed. She gouges a fucking hole in Ruki and Sachi's relationship, but what do you know, turned out it was incredibly valuable and necessary for Sachi's development as a person, and now their relationship is totally great and even better than it was before.

Nothing she does is allowed to go wrong, nobody she hurts is allowed to dislike her, she fucks anyone she feels like fucking without fail, and the author refuses to ruffle a single hair on her head. The real problem with Remi isn't that she's promiscuous, or even that she's a horrible, horrible person. The problem with Remi is that the whole fucking world twists itself into impossible shapes to fit her whims, ensuring that everything she does is awesome, that nobody ever meaningfully questions what she's doing or why she's doing it. She's literally at Edward Cullen or Christian Grey-levels of fucking awful person treated as untouchably perfect by author fiat, and she makes everyone around her more disgusting and more hateful just from their unwillingness to go against her. It's trashy writing from an author I really, really liked, and I feel like it's poisoning my opinion of the stuff she's written that I used to enjoy. Ugh.

Edit: Apparently I don't understand how spoiler tags work. Should be fine now. Christ, I'm so worked up about this, what am I even doing with my life.

Just saw this. Pretty excellent summation of my issues with what's gone on in the manga. A lot of people hate on Citrus for having artificially created drama, and yet seem to have no issue with Remi performing the exact same function here, what with summoning up interpersonal issues on a whim and then the fact that she was the one who instigated them being completely glossed over by the other characters around her.

Man, I'm kinda disappointed. I liked the rest of the manga, and I like the other stuff Shuninta wrote, but the ball was aggressively thrown in the trash when it came to the narrative, towards the end especially. "Remi does shitty things but nobody holds her responsible!", the musical.

Lazy, lazy writing. Not what I expected from Shuninta.

I got a bad vibe from Remi the moment she showed up but now she's almost single-handedly killed any interest I ever had in this manga :(

Whoa, calm your tits, onee-samas, everyone is awful just like Remia stated, and that's normal, nobody is ever perfect.
anyway, based Remi! I can't not like this magnificent bastard and the self-contained way she brags about her machinations. This woman really has some surreal power over her surroundings, as if she were some mysterious creature. Confirmed for most vivid character among those who actually conduct the role of a plot device, in that as soon as she is the driving force behind all these entangled stories of our characters, still there is a strong and outstanding characterization of her personality.
And yes, kids, this is Pride. That's what she looks like. Make sure not to do as she does! if you don't have the guts to be feared by everyone and handle the reputation of worldwide bitch
About the rest of girls, well, let's see.
Ruki pretty much confirmed for Envy given that she always looks to the sides never actually paying attention to what's right before her, wants to do everything at once instead of doing what's the most important with all she's got. Driving a car is nice as analogy: she doesn't watch the road before her eyes while lookind left and right/indulging in thoughts.
Maasa is pretty much walking Greed in that she's always oriented at gaining more profit while not sharing it with anyone in fear of loss. It goes from handling money to more abstract and spiritual things.
Meru is Gluttony incarnate, she consumes as much as she wants not thinking of consequences or not knowing to stop, and always wants consume more than is necessary to the point it's damaging herself.
Fue is without any doubt Sloth, her depression has reached somatic stage where she literally has no motivation to supply her lifeforce, not even eating properly, getting tired real quickly and so on.
Sachi could very well be Wrath as she seems now to pull a Heathcliff on Ruki : out of her anger at someone who did awful stuff to her in the past, she lets off on others by doing the same to them, even though these people basically did nothing wrong to her. Also, holding everything inside and then raging out on her friends means she can't handle her anger.
Lastly, Asuna - well, this one doesn't even need deduction to understand. But not only is she a literal Lust, but it also resounds in her attitude: she only wills to take, but not to give and is oriented at always getting what she wants.
anyhow, great chapter, the whole seashore and driving thing gave me vibes of Narcissus 2 if you get what I'm talking about

Whoa, calm your tits, onee-samas, everyone is awful just like Remia stated, and that's normal, nobody is ever perfect.
anyway, based Remi! I can't not like this magnificent bastard and the self-contained way she brags about her machinations. This woman really has some surreal power over her surroundings, as if she were some mysterious creature. Confirmed for most vivid character among those who actually conduct the role of a plot device, in that as soon as she is the driving force behind all these entangled stories of our characters, still there is a strong and outstanding characterization of her personality.
And yes, kids, this is Pride. That's what she looks like. Make sure not to do as she does! if you don't have the guts to be feared by everyone and handle the reputation of worldwide bitch
About the rest of girls, well, let's see.
Ruki pretty much confirmed for Envy given that she always looks to the sides never actually paying attention to what's right before her, wants to do everything at once instead of doing what's the most important with all she's got. Driving a car is nice as analogy: she doesn't watch the road before her eyes while lookind left and right/indulging in thoughts.

I already pointed out that this was wrong earlier in this thread.

From the thread on /u/, thank based Kawaii anon:

Alright, for those who cared to know Amano's thoughts on the characters, here's the whole list:

Ruki = Pride
First name: Lucifer (Luci). Last name: lion.

"When I think of how many times she got her pride crushed, she ended up becoming quite the wimp in the end. Her hair style resembles a lion’s mane."

Sachi = Wrath
First name: Satan (Sacchan -> Satan)
Last name: Wolf

"When I think of wrath, punishing people by punching them always comes to my mind so I made her a violent character.
The ends of her hair are pointy, making her resemble a wolf slightly."

Fueko = Sloth
First name: Belphegor. Last name: bear

"I thought of her as a hibernating bear. Because she is lazy, she keeps her hair styled as a bob so she can style and trim it at home without the hassle of going to a hairdresser."

Asuna = Lust
First name: Asmodeus. Last name: goat.

"It seems like Yagi-san’s letter never reaches its recipient (vol 2). I thought of making her pupils more wide and rectangular like a goat, but it looked really disgusting so I dropped the idea. I feel that girls with monolids look cute too."

Maasa = Greed
First name: Mammon. Last name: fox.

"At first, I had initially created a scenario where she racked up a huge gambling debt, and saved herself borrowing her parents’ money. I think handsome, rich girls with talent are simply the best. She’s actually the youngest one in the group."
So, Maasa is probably her favorite.

Meru = Gluttony
First name: Beelzebub. Last name: pig.

"When I first tried to design her character, it resulted in an empty, broken girl clinging to a fake smile. My editor said, 'She must be really ill…', and that decided it."

Remia = Envy
First name: Leviathan (Levia). Last name: snake

"She is not envious of others, but she enjoys having others be envious of her. She is the oldest one, so she acts like an older sister, but is in reality the type that can’t grow up. She has the pupils of a snake."

You guys seriously need to chill. If you're that upset over a manga, please move on to other series you have an interest in. It's getting increasingly frustrating reading such comments on a manga I genuinely like.

x2.

Actually, x3, x4, and x5 for other people I'm comfortable saying that for, who've chosen to avoid the comments for this specifically because of the rage at hand.

I'm not against negative commentary in the least, but enough is enough. Amano is not suddenly the antichrist because she wrote a harsh, realistic series. Even if things are as bad as some make them out to be, does literary justice really exist in the real world?

ok but i honestly don't find anything happening in this series atm to be realistic at all? it mostly just seems like drama for the sake of drama, which isn't gritty or realistic, just boring and repetitive.

Just saw this. Pretty excellent summation of my issues with what's gone on in the manga. A lot of people hate on Citrus for having artificially created drama, and yet seem to have no issue with Remi performing the exact same function here, what with summoning up interpersonal issues on a whim and then the fact that she was the one who instigated them being completely glossed over by the other characters around her.

Man, I'm kinda disappointed. I liked the rest of the manga, and I like the other stuff Shuninta wrote, but the ball was aggressively thrown in the trash when it came to the narrative, towards the end especially. "Remi does shitty things but nobody holds her responsible!", the musical.

...but Remi DIDN'T instigate the problems between Ruki and Sacchan. Remi's been pretty absent from the plot, until this point. Those problems completely spring out of those characters, and they're consistent with the way the characters have been drawn: Sacchan's passivity and Ruki's avoidance. Yes, and given those, it makes total sense that some outside shock is what leads them to do something one way or another.
I don't think this past chapter has been awesome, amazing writing, or anything, but it's definitely character-driven and earned. The only way you can think it's not is if you think Remi sleeping with Sacchan is the only problem in Sacchan and Ruki's relationship up to this point, when the fact is, they've never had anything approaching a relationship to start with.

It stretches credulity that people's REAL problem is with some kind of plot artificiality, when the thing that people keep going back to is "I hate this character and she's not getting her comeuppance like I want!!!"

^ At this point of the story, Sacchan isn't passive anymore

last edited at Feb 6, 2015 3:32PM

...but Remi DIDN'T instigate the problems between Ruki and Sacchan. Remi's been pretty absent from the plot, until this point. Those problems completely spring out of those characters, and they're consistent with the way the characters have been drawn: Sacchan's passivity and Ruki's avoidance. Yes, and given those, it makes total sense that some outside shock is what leads them to do something one way or another.
I don't think this past chapter has been awesome, amazing writing, or anything, but it's definitely character-driven and earned. The only way you can think it's not is if you think Remi sleeping with Sacchan is the only problem in Sacchan and Ruki's relationship up to this point, when the fact is, they've never had anything approaching a relationship to start with.

It stretches credulity that people's REAL problem is with some kind of plot artificiality, when the thing that people keep going back to is "I hate this character and she's not getting her comeuppance like I want!!!"

There were underlying issues beforehand, yes, but I doubt Sachi would've gone out and slept with a woman consistently for a month if Remi hadn't made the first move, and Remi herself said she got into it specifically because she wanted to see Ruki get screwed over from being so earnest.

Plus, I don't necessarily think it's "avoidance" for her to see a mark on Sachi and not want to seem like she's being controlling/pushy like Sachi's ex, either. She's trying to be considerate where her ex wasn't, and doesn't want to be paranoid by freaking out over something that might be nothing. Bearing in mind that when she did get more concrete proof that Sachi had been fooling around, her first action was to confront the issue and talk to Remi about it.

I've already said that I find Sachi worse than Remi in this particular instance, though, but that doesn't remove the fact that Remi has been central to nearly every single piece of drama in this work, and the writing has moved to accommodate her continued involvement in the friend group, despite all of the shit she's persistently putting everyone through. You expect the readers to believe that nobody would get sick of it and confront her? That tests my ability to suspend disbelief, especially after what happened to Meru.

In regards to your final point, I think the comeuppance of a character is certainly part of plot credulity. When one person has been instrumental in so much shit for nearly every single relationship, it does strain believability when it turns out that she either a) avoids all culpability for her actions or b) turns out to actually be right in the end. Someone who is above reproach in-universe is absolutely a fault with the writing, because that's not how real interpersonal relationships and dynamics actually work in real life.