Heavensrun posted:

But seriously, my goal is just to understand the work and see if I can figure out where it's going to go in the future.

I meant more that without even realizing it, you might be wasting time analyzing something that isn't even accurate. I do understand that it's implausible to expect everyone to be able to just read original, so average reader pretty much have no other option than just trusting translation is more or less accurate. There's nothing wrong with theory crafting etc. It's just when people seriously argue about tenses, specific wording or other stuff like that, without even knowing how close to original it is, when you realize how silly it can get. Especially when you learn something was mistranslated.

Interesting. I don't have the raws, so this is speculation based on what I know about Japanese, but I suspect they just got the subject association mixed up on the first sentence ("why did I say that", as opposed to "why did she say that"). which gives a different implied meaning to the accusation of unfairness. In the former, Touko's being unfair because she cornered Yuu in a lie, in the latter, Touko is being unfair because she -is- lying, so "You liar" is a fair translation in that context. The first mistake begets the second. TLDR: It's probably an honest mistake.

That's interesting take on it, but sadly it's very explicit. Touko never uses phrase "I don't mind". So when on last page the phrase is said "なんで　構わないなんて言っちゃったんだろう", "(I) wonder　why did (I) say something like "(I) don't mind"?", it's very clear it's referring to what Yuu was saying. Also "chau" is form meaning doing something accidentally, so she's referring to how she said it without really thinking it through. If it really was just a genuine mistake, it would still be bad, but at least I could understand it. As it stands, it really just feel like trying to write something that translator thought sounded better than what was actually said. Instead of Yuu getting annoyed that Touko is putting her in unfair situation, it comes off as her seeing through Touko's facade and getting annoyed at her for just not being honest with herself, which changes their entire relationship and Yuu's perception of Touko. It's exactly the thing I talked above, with how you could base your entire interpretation of work and understanding of characters on that line, without realizing it's nowhere near close to what was actually said and doesn't reflect on actual work at all. Also people pointed out how phrase "it's unfair" is very important and is said often by both Yuu and Sayaka, so removing it, removes that connection. And as I said before, from what I glanced over just in this dialogue alone, I noticed few more questionable choices.

The Seven Seas English translation is pretty close to the one on the website here, so I'm guessing this is some other release. is it also in English?

It's our polish translation. I translated it to english, so we can have this conversation.

Not that I think you were that serious with that line

I wasn't. It was Bleach reference. I was wondering if anyone will get it.

I want to throttle your entire school faculty.

It wasn't just my school though. That's how our entire system of education works. "Polish" lessons boil down to reading classic books, poetry etc. and learning how to analyze them. On surface it doesn't seem that bad. Learning different themes, motives, influences and such and then trying to apply that knowledge to look for it in different texts and analyze them. The issue is the reason it's that way. At the end of high school, after you already graduated, everyone in entire country takes universal "tests of maturity" supposedly showing that you gained enough knowledge to become a adult. When you apply to university, scores on those tests are what dictates whatever you'll get in or not. Your grades from high school are secondary. Some universities do have their own entrance exams, but those maturity tests still matter. Because Polish is mandatory (along with math), no matter which degree you pick, it's always taken into account, so it's in your best interest to do well.

There are two parts. Reading with comprehension and either you have 1 text to analyze or 2 to compare along with some kind of thesis which you need to base your essay around. Of course since those exams are supposed to objectively value your knowledge, they need a reliable way to judge your performance. That's why when people from ministry of eduction or whoever does it, sit down to make those tests, they make a "key" based on which they judge your work. You get points for following elements they included in it, so you can't just write whatever but need to aim to fit specifically into what they considered important. So in order to get a good score, you have to analyze it exactly the way they analyzed it and expect you to analyze it.

We have similar final tests for elementary and middle school, but they're taken much less seriously. For elementary they're pretty much a formality, since you're guarantee to get into middle school in your area and score for middle school doesn't really matter, since you're admitted to high school mostly based on your grades. Both had a reading with comprehension portion and write a short story/essay portion. I'm not sure how exactly they were checking it, since we were never taught to follow any key or anything like that. I basically wrote what came to mind and passed it with almost perfect score. And that is how it should work, since the point of it (I thought) was to express yourself and present your take on it. Things changed once we got into high school. It kinda already was case before, but because there's really nothing to do in Polish lessons, entire 3 years we just spend preparing for final exams. So all our tests were just reading with comprehension and testing our knowledge about books we were required to read. Every now and then we would write trial versions of maturity test. During third year, that was basically all we did. And through all those 3 years, our teacher was determinate to teach us exactly how to write according to key and what to look for, because examiners will judge us solely based on that. That's why I said our school system burnt me for poetry and any analysis. Because all we were ever taught is that there's only 1 right way to analyze it and we had to get it right.

As a funny side story, of course we also use our books and famous poetry. Some of author's of those are still alive. They actually had 3 of them doing those tests and 2 out of them failed, while 1 passed barely. To make it even worse, one of those who failed was analyzing his own essay and he supposedly "got it wrong".

Sanrai posted:

Also, has anime been getting really gay lately, or is it just me?

It's getting pretty gay.

Doctor_Hoot posted:

Attack on Titan which has important, attractive lesbian characters that have a serious romantic sub plot

Didn't that go terribly as expected? I heard they pulled a Clexa or some arranged marriage shit.

There's some other yuri in SnK outside of Historia x Ymir? Which ended before it could even go anywhere, since Ymir is super dead.

last edited at Mar 19, 2019 1:56PM

Inu posted:

Hi.
I need help.I cant find that one manga and it reallllly border me. I dont think it was yuri but there was OL that secretly had hobby watching movies. One day her co worker came to her house in rain and asked if she could stay night couse she found out that her bf was chating on her. And some time later she moved in with MC.
I hope that thats enough and i would realy realy ralllly appreciate it if someone could help!

Thanks

Ask and you'll be given.

EDIT/ Damn you xP Then again I did only know it because of you x3

last edited at Mar 19, 2019 1:52PM

LumberingCrane posted:

Oh shit, I should've kept all that evidence, got me there. True, maybe the one-shot where the dude knocks up the girl and marries her in the end didn't really leave much of an impact in this yuri magazine.

We survived years of angst and bad endings. I'm pretty sure 1 more didn't make any difference. Early yuri was all about unrequited loves and drama.

last edited at Mar 19, 2019 1:30PM

Nya-chan posted:

But it's not really clear if she's trans.

It's clear as day.

Lol. I can't believe I didn't think of it. There's one, very obvious reason why "boku" would refer to Hime. She wears the freaking male uniform. facepalm

Meh. I'd probably get more responses, If I had post my thoughts as new chapters were coming out, as I originally wanted to, but since I ended up writing a huge wall of text again, I bet most people didn't even bother to read it. I'm used to it, so it's fine

majere posted:

At least Hime has a personality.

To be fair, it's mainly because Hime is very expressive and proactive. Also we focus on her all the time and see her inner monologue. Compare to that Akira has much less screen time, we don't know her thoughts and combined with her passive and shy personality, it make sense she didn't leave as much of impression.

majere posted:

trans people's experiences are rarely important to the narrative either in stories centered around them or in their own lives. It's not "Akira happens to be transgender so she should automatically be the MC" it's "Akira is transgender and this entire story pivots around that fact and it'd be nice if stories like that actually had a trans MC for once."

That reminded me of this little gem. A trans story from perspective of trans person about trans experience. There's 1 line that can seem confusing. I believe she meant to say gender dysphoria or some similar medical term or just put it in very clumsy way (I have gender disorder? Gender illness?). There's different group which seemed to have less accurate translation (you could tell they made mistakes, by just reading translation and despite better TS the flow of dialogue was awkward) and their version says something completely different, making me feel like first group rewrote the line to make it more trans friendly, but used some outdated term. Sadly, since I couldn't find raws to confirm what was actually said, I can't really say whatever either or neither group is correct. Even if they did rewrite it, I think it works better and doesn't detract from very good story.

last edited at Mar 18, 2019 12:39PM

Ryu-chii posted:

I don't remember all the things but why "Lolicon"?

Lolicon on dynasty is more of umbrella term and rather inform about presence of lolis than actual pedos. I agree it can be pretty confusing. I was there before. Also underage =/= loli, but at this point it seems like people just don't care about actual definition. Also seen naked =/= sexualized.

last edited at Mar 18, 2019 11:57AM

I totally forgot. Realizing story is about Hime's love for Akira gave me 2 ways to look at the title. "Kanojo" can mean "girl", but is more often used in context of "girlfriend". So the phrase can both mean "I want to become a girl" obviously referring to Akira, but also "I want to become a girlfriend" referring to Hime wanting to date Akira. "Kimi" is one of many "you"s that japanese generally don't use, but sometimes you need to, especially in manga (and manga titles) so along with "anata", it's one of the safest bets, if you don't want to sound too rude. "Boku" is "I" generally used by boys, but girls can use it too as a way to stand out or to sound more boyish. Hime doesn't use boku though. Still, considering that she thought about wanting to be a boy in order to date Akira, acts more masculine in general and is the main protagonist of the series, I'd say it refers to her. Also because it's put next to her, when title is shown for the first time. So you could understand title as something Hime is saying "We want to become "girls", you and me." but the meaning of "girl" is different for both characters.

Other way you can look at it, is that title is pretty straightforward. It's Hime simply saying she wants to become Akira's girlfriend. It applies to both interpretations, but in fiction "kimi" is often used as a way you'd address your lover and has very strong romantic implications. And even if technically both can use it, it's still word mainly used by men and in context of love story, towards their female interests. So in context of Hime being the one to say it, "Kimi" would be referring to Akira as a female love interest, while "boku" obviously referring to Hime as she is the one doing pursing, as well as being presented as definitely more masculine of the two. And look. Don't blame me for interpreting it so heavily based on binary, gender roles and such in manga about trans person. It's author giving them those stereotypical traits and using those gender specific words.

If I'm wrong about something, I'm sure plenty of people will correct me.

last edited at Mar 17, 2019 8:10PM

Surprised to see, I actually kinda called it. Also lol I refer to Fragtime in that post. What a coincident xD

I meant to write it after chapter 4 dropped, but life is a bitch... Well good for me, my opinion of the series didn't change much and in fact every new chapter just confirms my first impressions and guesses. Also I guess writing it now instead of when chapters were released, gives me better chance to explain my issues, since it gives me hindsight to earlier chapters.

Reading description you'd think Hime and Akira are the 2 main protagonists and story would be about Akira's change, but for the most part she feels like a side character and entire focus is on Hime. And that is my biggest issues with that series. It's Hime's story, not Akira's. Sure, you could still explore problems with changing someone's gender from perspective of someone close to them. But that's not what we got. Instead we're trading Akira's struggles with gender identity for Hime's love story. In fact everything revolves around her. And if that wasn't bad enough, manga portrays Hime's conflicting feelings as equal, if not even bigger issue, than what Akira is going through, which is insulting.

So it's Hime's love story about her friend, she's in love with, realizing she is a girl and how Hime has to deal with that. Already some red flags. Author is more interested in exploring how Hime is copying with Akira's change, rather than Akira herself. Again, you could tell a interesting story with that premise. Well, this manga doesn't. In fact this is the only thing I was wrong about, but the actual reason she struggled with her feelings for Akira was so stupid, I wish I was right about it as well. It'd would at least make for better story than what author actually went for. Originally I thought Hime never actually accepted Akira as a girl and despite initially being ok with it, she simply repressed her feelings. She felt like a terrible person, because deep down she still wanted Akira to be a boy. But no. The real reason she felt this way was because she thought liking Akira meant, she still saw her as a guy. I understand, especially in homophobic countries, many people think homosexuality is wrong and not everyone is aware gay people even exist, but c'mon. Japan is not the friendliest, but it's not like there's no way to ever hear of possibility. We're talking on forum with manga dedicated to same sex love. Are you seriously telling me Hime's entire struggle was relying on the fact, she never once considered 2 girls dating a option? And the fact it was all solved as soon as she was told it's fine by someone else her age is nothing short of infuriating. It made her years of struggles into 1 big joke. I guess it does make her a perfect yuri protagonist though. And now Akira has fallen in love and the story again focus on how Hime has to deal with her love being unrequited and how she can't support Akira, because of her own feelings. Trans romance? Who needs that!

Hime starts as self-centered and obnoxious, making her completely unlikable. At first she tries to solve all problems with shouting and getting angry. It might have worked when she was 12, but at this point you'd think she figured out that in order to convince people of something you need to talk to them and explain yourself. Nobody will listen and agree with you, even if you're right, when all you're doing is getting mad and insulting them. Sadly it takes whole 8 chapters for someone to finally spell it to her, so she realizes how annoying she was until that point. Before that she's simple unbearable. At first I thought she was some kind of complete moron who doesn't know anything about life and needs to be told everything in very clear and blatant terms so it'll go through her thick skull. But then I realized. People who call this manga preachy are right. Hime is a blank slate for other characters to deliver their positive messages on. She was made with sole purpose of being character who doesn't get it and needs other characters to explain it to her, so she can become better person and properly support Akira. So her entire character is completely catered to make story work, even if it makes her unrealistically stupid.

Other characters aren't much better though. We got 2 teachers who represent both extremes. One that pretends to understand Akira, but actually does everything wrong, while other is truly understanding without any prejudices. Then we have "the weird girl" who happens to completely relate to Akira, likes everything about her and immediately becomes besties pals with her. But the one that takes the cake is the delinquent girl that embodiments cliche "don't judge book by its cover". She acts like a voice of reason for Hime and of course just happens to always give perfect advices. They all are so perfectly crafted to serve the plot, they don't even feel like human beings. The only person in entire cast I actually like is Akira herself. I like how she's presented as a realistic trans character. I really wish story was focusing on her instead of that train-wreck of a mess Hime is. Also the art style with its overexaggerated expressions doesn't help with taking anything seriously either, when it's presented as some funny, comedy bits.

To address reason Hime wears boy's uniform. It has nothing to do with her being trans or anything like that. As with everything else, she tries to solve the problem with rush decisions and getting mad. If people say Akira is weird, I'll show them it's normal! So she pretends to be "the same as Akira". And if it won't work, Akira at least won't be alone. Normally I'd call it insulting again, but considering Hime's personality and her entire purpose in story is to not get it, it makes perfect sense for her to do it. It's obvious to anyone else that it's not the way to go and it won't solve anything in the long run. It's true Hime started to do it on impulse, but there is another reason for it. Maybe even the reason that was the first thing she thought of. She actually wished she was the same as Akira. She's not trans, but if she was a guy, it'd solve all her problems. She could date Akira without issues and had no reason to hid her feelings. Wearing male uniform started to make feelings she was suppressing so far emerging again and reminding her how conflicted she is.

The messages story is trying to convey are at least good. Sure, some are pretty basic, "You shouldn't be prejudice.", "You need to understand other people first.", "It's ok for 2 girls to love each other.", and something everyone should know, but there's nothing wrong with repeating them, especially for new generations. Unfortunately making Hime the main focus does a disservice to a lot of them. This scene is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's a very good scene and I understand why author wanted to put it in. But we should be seeing it from Akira's perspective and see how it affects her. But because they locked themselves into Hime's perspective, she has to spy on them and then insert herself into the scene in a very jarring way. Again, everything is about Hime.

Also something else I noticed. I'm not saying this manga is trying to imply it, but I feel like the whole dressing in boy's uniform have some similarities with the transtrender/otherkin thing. On the one hand you have Hime doing it for attention, so people will ignore Akira, but all it achieves is labeling Hime as weirdo and most likely Akira too. On the other you have people who don't really have any identity issues, but just want to feel special and make a big fuss about it, taking focus from people with actual struggles and lumping them together in the process. I do feel like this is a accurate summary of my issue with this manga. Hime's problems overshadowed Akira's completely.

Damn. Writing it down turned out way harder than I initially thought...

last edited at Mar 17, 2019 2:53PM

Busts out her Cliche Bingo

primalyossi posted:

I’m looking for the one where these girls meet at a hospital but then gets together after realizing one of the girls saw her as a romantic interest instead of a friend... I don’t remember the exact title, but was it called something along the lines of “kanojo libido?” If you have the exact title plz let me know. Thanks!

Sounds like this, but Kanojo Libido does sound familiar, so maybe it's something else.

schuyguy posted:

Didn't she went on hiatus or something? There was interview with her in Galette newspaper where she talked about it.

I don't know the details. I just know that it wasn't in the last 2 issues, and I heard that the next one will be out in May. Do you have a link to the newsletter so I can check?

https://www.mediafire.com/file/i0k4hmv2wfp4hcx/401fdf57_shinbun201808.pdf/file

Claris posted:

^Still going on?

Except I only replied because Serenata wrote to me.

But seriously though. When I started watching anime I was amazed exactly because I thought we finally got a proper yuri anime about yuri couple that start dating from episode 1 and we'll explore their relationship. The fact they actually kiss, a lot on top of that, was a great bonus since that's also something we rarely get. But then anime last episodes arrived and we learned that in fact it's not yuri anime and they're not a couple (as far as main couple go anyway). In fact, they're so dumb, they don't even know what dating or love even means. It was just such slap in the face. And it's not even my words. They specifically said they're only special friends and have special relationship.

When in episode 1 they decided to start kissing to keep their relationship special, I thought they were aware what that means and through series, you'd never doubt that they're indeed in love with each other. But then they blatantly admit they really are just kissing to be special friends. So after that huge betrayal, seeing someone calling it "pure yuri anime" just rubs me the wrong way. There is looking into subtext, but then there's ignoring blatant text. Text of them confirming they do not date and don't know what loving someone means.

And even going into manga. They do not date in manga as well. It takes 6 volumes just for Yuu to stop going along with Haruka's BS and call her on it. It takes 7 volumes for Haruka to even acknowledge there's something more than friendship between them and even then she still don't consider them dating and it ends with Yuu having to swear she'll win Haruka over in collage. Truly a peak of yuri mangas. They don't even end up dating during manga and it takes 3/4 of it for them to realize they might even be in love. It's funny how you say it's not a subtext manga, when at first it sets them up as if they were obviously a couple and then for majority of series they don't even acknowledge there are any real feelings between them for the sake of keeping a cheep comedy. So yes, it actually is "subtext with yuri jokes" for the most part. And even if you want to say I should just read it for comedy, I can't since once series tried to pass that "dating, what's it?" crap, as a joke, I lost any trust in this series ability to be funny.

Looking East posted:

I think this is also starting to change for the better with time. Just look at this last year or so or even this season. We have two shows at this moment that are not romances and which have unambiguous yuri elements in them.

Endro has two yuri crushes and a character that is strait up declaring she will rewrite the laws of the kingdom so she can get married to another female character, and Wataten! is a cute girls doing cute things series with two very unambiguous yuri crushes at the heart of what goes on in the series. Both of these are shows that could have easily left the yuri as subtext only without changing the over arching series much at all yet they didn't.

I guess I went into habit of generalizing a bit too much. My bad. It's true we get more and more anime where we get those more and less explicit yuri crushes, without series focusing on them specifically. I wouldn't count WataTen and similar adaptations though, since mangas were already specifically gay, so it's obvious they'd keep yuri in anime as well. There'd be no point to cut it, when it was half of appeal of source material. In fact WataTen is a prime example along with NTR, Citrus and Bloom Into You of blatant yuri manga being adapted into anime. Trend I obviously like.

What I meant more, is those big franchises focused more on appealing to male otakus, especially with male self insert, and selling merchandise. In those I'd never expect a confirmed ship, because it'd risk backlash of people who no longer can imagine the X girl being their only waifu and show ruining their image of her. And them being the main driving force behind money, make them the most important people to please.

DC3 posted:

I mean it's kind of an unusual pick, why this and not Girlfriends? or any of the popular currently running manga like Sekai de Oppai or Hanigare? anyway, it's not like we get to decide I'm not even complaining more yuri is always welcome :D

We got NTR 2 years ago, Citrus last year and this year we already got Bloom Into You and WataTen, so I'd say the fact we get less popular work now is actually pretty good (well not clue how popular it actually was). And anyway, I really liked the story, so I'm glad it's getting adapted. I think movie or 2 episode 30 minutes OVA could work just fine.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 5:54PM

Nekofanatic posted:

Holy shit, why do I even bother coming to comment sections anymore?

Ikr?

Polioro posted:

MAAAAAAAAAAAAN THE NINTH VOLUME WAS CRAAAAAZY I LOOOOOVE IT.

Pff. We got 10th already xP

I don't understand how any of you can still take this story seriously after Asa pulled off that blackmail bs. There's trying to help someone finding their identity, when you think you might be able to give them a hand. Then there's saving someone from being raped, just to blackmail them over the same thing they almost got raped over instead and forced them to do something very unethical and fucked up, just because you think they didn't discover their true self yet and you're trying to "help" them realize it. I really dislike how she acts how she knows better what Gin wants and feel than Gin themselves.

It would really be hilarious if Gin really was just into crossdressing, but she assumed he was trans and forced him to do it "for his good". Even if he is trans, I don't think anyone would appreciate pretty much being forced into that identity.

Awesome! I really liked the story so I'm glad it's getting adopted. Also, what is it? NTR, Citrus, Bloom Into you, WataTen and now this? Did we finally reached the point where making proper yuri anime is profitable?

Hylarn posted:

Probably a movie? A TV series would only have about 4-5 episodes worth of content for a 1-1 adaptation, and I don't think there's much opportunity to pad that out. It... could be an OVA or ONA?

I think movie would be actually perfect. If they would went OVA route, I think two 30 minutes ones would work out as well.

last edited at Mar 16, 2019 5:25PM

BugDevil posted:

Those English voices though haha

I played game with english voices, so I actually prefer them. Also it helped that dub for the most part was solid. Hearing Grea's and Anne's voice now, I was surprised how very similar they're to their japanese counterparts.

Loralei posted:

Citrus got licensed in Poland.

I bought it yesterday. The things you do to promote yuri...

She finally got her memory back! What a twist!

So she lost her memory in order to get married twice to her lover? What a cunning fox xP

Holy fuck, I just remembered about something crazy. I used to play Shadowverse which is CCG made by Cygames and they often make tie-in cards with characters from their other proprieties like Shingeki no Bahamut and Granblue Fantasy. I of course didn't know any. In their new (back then anyway) set Rise of Bahamut, they added 2 cards, which now makes much more sense to me:

Normal
Evolved

Normal
Evolved

The kicker? They're the only 2 cards in entire game (well at that point anyway, but I doubt they made new cards with the same gimmick) that summon each other. Whenever you put one into play, it automatically summons the other and evolves it. So they're pretty much a set, you always summon together. And they reference each other in their quotes. Already back then I got pretty much couple vibe from them, but I had no idea it was running so deep.

Summoning: "What you wanna do today, Grea?"
Evolving: "Grea, we can do this together."

Summoning: "Anne, help me out."
Evolving: "Anne, calm down already."
Attacking in evolved form: "No one hurts Grea, no one."

Couldn't find video where they play Anne.

(Yes, I just installed game again just to confirm quotes, because no wiki had them. Had to create cards, since I didn't own them, but luckily I had some mats laying around. Would burn some of my cards otherwise. The things you do for the sake of yuri!)

last edited at Mar 10, 2019 2:15PM