If there is anything real to glean from the Japanese names of those stars then just say it already, you can't expect your opinion to sway people when you refuse to state your evidence and try to lord it over them like a child instead.

Fine. Seems like you just can't search yourself even if l have already given you the clue.

Ochiai Koto (おちあいこと 落合琴)
こと座 the Vega star

Ushio Aya (うしおあや 牛尾あや)
わし(鷲尾)座 the Altair star

Karasuno Erika (からすのえりか 烏野永理香)
はくちょう座 the Deneb star
(はくちょう座ε星は元々からす座γ星と同じ呼び名で呼ばれていた)

Also still just cannot take seriously any claim so Erika broke up Koto and Aya, because that requires implicitly claiming that relationship would have continued fine without Erika's advice to Aya and lol no. That shit was doomed from the second Koto gave in to her worst impulses and tried to get Aya to quit her job and education and become a shut-in.

LOL
Yeah. Who went lash out at her best friend for daring to accept her childhood friend's confession and led the poor girl disappear? Who gave Koto a ton of trauma? Who literally killed the girl who had everything written on her face?

All because of the immaturity of Erika, everyone has to be suffering. Liked Koto first and did nothing. Only had magical thinking of "one day she will fall for me!". No, she won't. And if you really love someone, you want them to be happy. Erika only wants her own happiness.

Who literally killed the girl who had everything written on her face?

What in the world are you talking about? Do you even know what the English word “literally” means?

If you want to come right out and say, “Erika has magical powers which she intentionally used to make Aya disappear,” just go ahead and say it, and stop pretending to have some sophisticated reading of the text that others are too stupid to understand.

last edited at Dec 19, 2024 7:48AM

Who literally killed the girl who had everything written on her face?

What in the world are you talking about? Do you even know what the English word “literally” means?

Ofc l know.

If you want to come right and say, “Erika has magical powers which she intentionally used to make Aya disappear,” just go ahead and say it, and stop pretending to have some sophisticated reading of the text that others are too stupid to understand.

Usually, l love debates but still don't want to do it with a person who can't even read my words.

Who literally killed the girl who had everything written on her face?

What in the world are you talking about? Do you even know what the English word “literally” means?

Ofc l know.

If you want to come right and say, “Erika has magical powers which she intentionally used to make Aya disappear,” just go ahead and say it, and stop pretending to have some sophisticated reading of the text that others are too stupid to understand.

Usually, l love debates but still don't want to do it with a person who can't even read my words.

Gibberish.

Also lol that Tanabata reference is useless because you're just assuming Erika is the third wheel star, but have you considered it could be Aya herself, swinging by to get in between Erika and Koto just when Koto finally seemed to be healing? I'm not saying this is the definitive intention but I am saying it's one valid interpretation. 

To be fair, Koto and Erika were childhood friends and Koto didn't fall for Erika before she met Aya. It's kinda weird seeing Aya as the third wheel.
I think Koto is just not attracted to Erika, unfortunately. And Aya is the disaster who would fall for anyone she believes can love her forever. That's why l don't really think Koto deserves Aya but still can't help wanting them to be together.

last edited at Dec 20, 2024 4:14AM

Koto is easy to read, she needs to get past her trauma.

Had you successfully guessed the ending of chapter 4？l hadn't. As fas as I'm concerned, Koto is the most complicated character out of the trio. (I somehow notice Aya's biggest fear and Erika's hidden agenda from the very beginning of the manga)

Koto is easy to read, she needs to get past her trauma.

Had you successfully guessed the ending of chapter 4？l hadn't. As fas as I'm concerned, Koto is the most complicated character out of the trio. (I somehow notice Aya's biggest fear and Erika's hidden agenda from the very beginning of the manga)

Yeah, but according to one expert reader, Erika has "literally killed" someone, so being a murderer has got to add a bit of depth of character, right?

Also still just cannot take seriously any claim so Erika broke up Koto and Aya, because that requires implicitly claiming that relationship would have continued fine without Erika's advice to Aya and lol no. That shit was doomed from the second Koto gave in to her worst impulses and tried to get Aya to quit her job and education and become a shut-in.

LOL
Yeah. Who went lash out at her best friend for daring to accept her childhood friend's confession and led the poor girl disappear? Who gave Koto a ton of trauma? Who literally killed the girl who had everything written on her face?

All because of the immaturity of Erika, everyone has to be suffering. Liked Koto first and did nothing. Only had magical thinking of "one day she will fall for me!". No, she won't. And if you really love someone, you want them to be happy. Erika only wants her own happiness.

... Would you happen to be reading this manga on some different website, where someone is trolling you by inserting their own fanfic between the pages or something? Do you perhaps read manga in bed at night after taking sleeping pills? Because these scenes don't exist. It's not even a matter of interpretation, you're referencing things the rest of us have not read, period.

last edited at Dec 19, 2024 1:18PM

If there is anything real to glean from the Japanese names of those stars then just say it already, you can't expect your opinion to sway people when you refuse to state your evidence and try to lord it over them like a child instead.

Fine. Seems like you just can't search yourself even if l have already given you the clue.

Ochiai Koto (おちあいこと 落合琴)
こと座 the Vega star

Ushio Aya (うしおあや 牛尾あや)
わし(鷲尾)座 the Altair star

Karasuno Erika (からすのえりか 烏野永理香)
はくちょう座 the Deneb star
(はくちょう座ε星は元々からす座γ星と同じ呼び名で呼ばれていた)

Also still just cannot take seriously any claim so Erika broke up Koto and Aya, because that requires implicitly claiming that relationship would have continued fine without Erika's advice to Aya and lol no. That shit was doomed from the second Koto gave in to her worst impulses and tried to get Aya to quit her job and education and become a shut-in.

LOL
Yeah. Who went lash out at her best friend for daring to accept her childhood friend's confession and led the poor girl disappear? Who gave Koto a ton of trauma? Who literally killed the girl who had everything written on her face?

All because of the immaturity of Erika, everyone has to be suffering. Liked Koto first and did nothing. Only had magical thinking of "one day she will fall for me!". No, she won't. And if you really love someone, you want them to be happy. Erika only wants her own happiness.

... Would you happen to be reading this manga on some different website, where someone is trolling you by inserting their own fanfic between the pages or something? Because these scenes don't exist. It's not even a matter of interpretation, you're referencing things the rest of us have not read, period.

As far as I can tell in attempting to find some coherence in this bizarre nonsense, it’s all spun out of the belief that Erika caused Aya’s disappearance (“literally killed” her) by what she said to Aya at the Tanabata festival, along with a lot of conflation of the actions and attitudes of the characters in the past with those things in the present, as well as twisted paraphrases of things that actually do happen.

For instance, it’s post-Aya’s-disappearance Erika who thinks, “I need to wait for the right time to tell Koto my feelings,” not the Erika in middle school. Erika not only doesn’t think to herself that “one day Koto will fall for me,” she rejects Koto’s offer for the two of them to date.

It is true that Erika had some kind of conversation with Aya the night of the festival, and that she seems to feel bad about that in the present, but what was said and what the consequences of that were we do not know. It seems to be true that Erika made a Tanabata wish that Aya come back, and she does, but why that happened is unknown. That’s the sum total of the textual raw material that the “Evil Erika, Magical Blighter of Lives” fantasy is built on.

This is such a fascinating story in terms of its premises, narrative structure, and execution, especially in the complex emotional dynamic among the three main characters, that it’s a shame that the conversation about it so often gets diverted into a “who is good and who is bad” personality tribunal.

(Although admittedly, a story about a murdered girl with everything written on her face might make for a pretty cool Junji Itō story.)

Okay it would be pretty metal if this manga suddenly became Tomie though. Turns out Aya died but didn't stay dead and now she's budded and there's a bunch of Ayas all over Japan causing havoc

... Would you happen to be reading this manga on some different website, where someone is trolling you by inserting their own fanfic between the pages or something? Do you perhaps read manga in bed at night after taking sleeping pills? Because these scenes don't exist. It's not even a matter of interpretation, you're referencing things the rest of us have not read, period.

It's in chapter 17, Erika recalled something happened between she and Aya in the past, which is the main reason she always doubts whether she even has the right to confess her feelings to Koto. And according to her flashback (picture), that's apparently a one side big fight.

LOL the girl who had everything written on her face is middle schooler Koto. Erika literally killed her personality by causing Aya's disappearance.

Erika not only doesn’t think to herself that “one day Koto will fall for me,” she rejects Koto’s offer for the two of them to date.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Did nothing before Koto fell for Aya. Did nothing when Koto was chasing after Aya. But had goddamn logic blaming Aya for daring to accept Koto's confession. Don't you even talk about Koto offering them to date in high school. Koto's mentality was so fuck up back then she would date anyone who can walk on two legs. It's not like she sincerely loved them lol.
Erika just didn't want to be Aya's replacement.

LOL the girl who had everything written on her face is middle schooler Koto. Erika literally killed her personality by causing Aya's disappearance.

You seem to be unable to grasp how utterly foolish this assertion, and in particular this choice of words, makes you appear to people who know what words mean.

Blaming me for not being able to read my words. Classic.

At this point, I'm not sure why you guys keep engaging with that person. They clearly won't change their mind about their unfounded assomption, won't admit this is just a personal view about the characters (which would be fine) and is clearly condensing about the fact that not everyone can read Japanese (congratulations btw, about trying to win an argument in an English forum while posting hints in Japanese, very fair and mature). There is no discussion possible.

At this point, I'm not sure why you guys keep engaging with that person. They clearly won't change their mind about their unfounded assomption, won't admit this is just a personal view about the characters (which would be fine)

I know you won't reply (which is fine by me anyways). But if you do have read chapter 17, it's clearly not my personal assumption that Erika went lash out at Aya (flashback). Ofc your freedom wanting to ignore the fact, just don't expect others would be as blind.

and is clearly condensing about the fact that not everyone can read Japanese (congratulations btw, about trying to win an argument in an English forum while posting hints in Japanese, very fair and mature). There is no discussion possible.

I had already given them clue. Their inability of reading Japanese is not my problem. And it's pretty impossible for me to explain this in English when there's 漢字and ひらがなinvolved.

Blaming me for not being able to read my words. Classic.

Assuming the only reason anyone could ever have for disagreeing with you is incompetence or malice, huh.... Wait are you self inserting as Aya and applying these same standards to Erika?? This feels like a major clue. We might just solve The Mystery of The Poster Who Insists Disagreement Is Literally Murder soon!

At this point, I'm not sure why you guys keep engaging with that person. They clearly won't change their mind about their unfounded assomption, won't admit this is just a personal view about the characters (which would be fine) and is clearly condensing about the fact that not everyone can read Japanese (congratulations btw, about trying to win an argument in an English forum while posting hints in Japanese, very fair and mature). There is no discussion possible.

I'm not here to rationally debate, I'm here to have fun talking about manga. So far I'm finding fun here still. :3

last edited at Dec 20, 2024 1:58AM

Honestly, l don't want to get involved in the argument. But it's kinda interesting we can say whatever we want about Koto (calling her mental or a bozo and her relationship with Aya is shit) every way possible without being labeled as a hater. While things come to Erika, you are the hater who got their firstborn killed by her lol. I'm not complaining just wondering why there's such a difference.

At least rosetammy25 is being honest, that they hate Erika. And l also think Erika did have an unpleasant confrontation with Aya after reading chapter 17 due to her (Erika) flashback. Well, l doubt Erika had done something fishy towards Aya from the very beginning because the level of guilt is really out of common.

If you're going to bring up things that are in another language during a discussion then it's your job to explain them if you're trying to discuss things on an equal level, which you aren't.
Tell me how is this difficult to translate and to show which kanji is related to them. You just didn't want to. There are things we can't really translate from one language to another, but this time it's not the case at all.

For Koto, 琴座(ことざ, kotoza) is the Lyra constellation, whose alpha star is the Vega star. Koto(琴) shares her name with the constellation.

For Aya, it's from the chinese name for the Altair star, 牽牛(けんぎゅう, gengyuu) of the わし座(washiza), Aquila constellation. So the 牛 in 牛尾(ushio).

For Erika, the Epsilon Cygni star system (はくちょう座イプシロン星), which as the name implies belongs to the Cygnus constellation, whose brightest star is the Deneb star, previously shared a name (that of Gienah) with the Gamma Corvi binary star (からす座ガンマ星). So the 烏(からす) in 烏野(karasuno)
Tanabata knowledge isn't something so special you can only attain if you know Japanese, and neither is the existence of the Summer Triangle(夏の大三角).

Anyway this will be the last time I'll engage, and I wish you people wouldn't spoil things without giving a warning beforehand, I don't want to know what happens in chapter 17 before it's here even if I can just go ahead and read it myself.

(Might be a bit hard to read my post, sorry lol)

Honestly, l don't want to get involved in the argument. But it's kinda interesting we can say whatever we want about Koto (calling her mental or a bozo and her relationship with Aya is shit) every way possible without being labeled as a hater. While things come to Erika, you are the hater who got their firstborn killed by her lol. I'm not complaining just wondering why there's such a difference.

At least rosetammy25 is being honest, that they hate Erika. And l also think Erika did have an unpleasant confrontation with Aya after reading chapter 17 due to her (Erika) flashback. Well, l doubt Erika had done something fishy towards Aya from the very beginning because the level of guilt is really out of common.

As I said, I find the whole “hater/not a hater/pro-or-anti-this-or-that-character” discourse to be a tedious intellectual dead end that sooner rather than later becomes a version of a fan’s repetitive ranting about loved or hated sports teams. Sure, readers always have subjective visceral responses to fictional characters, and there can be useful debates about the ethical dimensions of depicted behavior, and sometimes people can have enlightening takes on how some particular character works in a story.

But quite often readers seem to be less about trying to come to terms with the specifics of a given text than in being the judge, jury, and executioner in an imaginary behavioral criminal court. And as we have just seen here in vivid detail, that sometimes entails spinning scraps of ambiguous textual evidence into fantasy indictments for murder, (or even demonstrating that, despite repeated protests to the contrary, one has no idea what the word “literally” means).

last edited at Dec 20, 2024 6:25AM

Assuming the only reason anyone could ever have for disagreeing with you is incompetence or malice, huh....

LOL
Calling my words utterly foolish.
Can't even use MTL serch the clue which l had already given.
If this is not incompetence or malice…

Wait are you self inserting as Aya and applying these same standards to Erika?? This feels like a major clue. We might just solve The Mystery of The Poster Who Insists Disagreement Is Literally Murder soon!

What standard???
Not lash out at people for daring dating my crush? For the life of me, l will never do such a low behavior towards anyone. Let alone my best friend. Only an incredible loser would blaming others for stealing their crush. And it's far more worse in Erika's case since she literally did nothing when Koto was chasing after Aya. Then still had goddamn logic blaming Aya, who supposed to be her best friend. Acting like Koto would eventually love her back if not for Aya's existence. Maybe the reason you think she is not that awful is because you would do the same thing under her condition? Well…