She's suck but it doesn't mean she never tried lol.

Gonna need examples of Erika trying to be manipulative.

③Chapter 16：
→"She's fine. It's even surprising."

That's the reply when Koto ask "How is Aya-chan？" Erika knows Aya is not really fine but still chose to say that. She wants Koto to move on so badly to the degree that she is disgusting me here.

This is a fine example of how your personal antipathy towards the characters distorts your “analysis” of the story. Yes, we are shown that Erika assumes that Aya is suffering emotionally from the breakup with Koto, but Aya is presenting to Erika precisely as Erika describes her. Almost certainly Erika’s description is exactly what Aya would want her to tell Koto.

Well, you would convince me if Erika didn't show her disappointment the same page and her annoyance next page.

To note, Koto had been talking all about Aya the moment Erika sat in her apartment. Then why suddenly got annoyed？ You can see Erika's face was full of hope after replying Koto that Aya is pretty fine, but turned to great disappointment (in the same page) when she found out Koto still only focused on Aya.
(Of course, if you can't tell it from the picture. We can't continue this pointless talk)

Erika is not Aya’s therapist or someone whose job it is to reveal to Koto what Aya is really feeling, nor would it be her place even if she were an entirely neutral party to facilitate the obviously unhealthy relationship that Koto wants to have with Aya.

I couldn't care less about that part. Aya is far more stronger in mind than the other two. For crying out loud, she is the only one who can survive in an unrequited love as a fucking 14 yo lol.

You of course are free to be “disgusted” by anything you choose.

Yes, l know. What are you trying to say here？
l just don't know where your hostility comes from. But l guess l don't actually care. You are free to hate me.

She's suck but it doesn't mean she never tried lol.

Gonna need examples of Erika trying to be manipulative.

③Chapter 16：
→"She's fine. It's even surprising."

That's the reply when Koto ask "How is Aya-chan？" Erika knows Aya is not really fine but still chose to say that. She wants Koto to move on so badly to the degree that she is disgusting me here.

This is a fine example of how your personal antipathy towards the characters distorts your “analysis” of the story. Yes, we are shown that Erika assumes that Aya is suffering emotionally from the breakup with Koto, but Aya is presenting to Erika precisely as Erika describes her. Almost certainly Erika’s description is exactly what Aya would want her to tell Koto.

Well, you would convince me if Erika didn't show her disappointment the same page and her annoyance next page.

To note, Koto had been talking all about Aya the moment Erika sat in her apartment. Then why suddenly got annoyed？ You can see Erika's face was full of hope after replying Koto that Aya is pretty fine, but turned to great disappointment (in the same page) when she found out Koto still only focused on Aya.
(Of course, if you can't tell it from the picture. We can't continue this pointless talk)

Obviously we are shown what Erika is feeling and thinking--I never said we weren't. But the challenge was to present concrete evidence that Erika has been manipulating the truth in an attempt to break up Aya and Koto. In that case, how Erika feels is irrelevant to the matter of what she actually says and does. She is telling the truth about how Aya seems to be doing, and under the circumstances it would not be reasonable for her to say anything different even if she didn't have feelings for Koto.

l just don't know where your hostility comes from. But l guess l don't actually care. You are free to hate me.

Your emotional projection has now reached ridiculous proportions. I do find your readings of the story (or rather your judgmental evaluations of the characters as if they were real people) to be unconvincing; the fact that you somehow interpret that as "hatred" of you personally is of a piece with the way you read the story.

Obviously we are shown what Erika is feeling and thinking--I never said we weren't. But the challenge was to present concrete evidence that Erika has been manipulating the truth in an attempt to break up Aya and Koto.

That's not what l'm saying. Aya and Koto had already broken up. What's the point of manipulating the truth to break them up？ Before you can understand what I'm trying to say (the subject Erika wants to manipulate in chapter 16) in that post, we can't continue any discussion. It's just so stupid.

It's just so stupid.

On that we are agreed.

She's suck but it doesn't mean she never tried lol.

Gonna need examples of Erika trying to be manipulative.

①Chapter 1：
→"Well, anyway, we're going to be busy with the club. There's no need for us to be in love yet, right？"

Erika's trying to let the other two think it's a bad idea if they choose to date right now. But it was mainly said towards Koto. You can see Koto was feeling the pressure (next picture) because she knew Aya loved acting and always be the lead role of their drama club. Erika implied "you might disturb Aya if you ask her to go out" here.

However, it turned out Koto still can't help but confess. Erika is suck at manipulating people all due to her not knowing that person who she wants to manipulate pretty well (and never notice that fact). Koto has the most selfish character out of the trio. Normally, people who had been refused will be hesitant to confess again for fearing he/she might feel bothered, but Koto couldn't care less.

Compared to Aya, who successfully pushed Koto to do the script things while jokingly playing Koto around at the same time. Yes, Erika literally has no talent in this area.

②Chapter 3：
→"So, if your feelings died down and you move on…You have to make it clear to her, don't you think？"

Even that's the case, you don't have to say in this way. As their friends, "You have to figure out how you feels about her now" is far more appropriate in this situation. But of course l can get it, Erika loves Koto and wants to lead her to think she has no feelings towards Aya now. It's understandable.

③Chapter 16：
→"She's fine. It's even surprising."

That's the reply when Koto ask "How is Aya-chan？" Erika knows Aya is not really fine but still chose to say that. She wants Koto to move on so badly to the degree that she is disgusting me here. Erika thought Koto would be miraculously moving forward if she acknowledges Aya doesn't even feel any sorrow about their breakup (while it's not the truth lol). So we can see why she gets mad next page that Koto is still all about Aya as usual.

I have said it before and l am going to say it again. Holding an unrequited love that long is never a good thing. Ultimately, you will be hurting the people you love because you can't control yourself, to think you already cost too much on it.

Accepting someone might never loves you back is a maturity which should be marked with a red line.

None of that is manipulative lmao. You're accusing her of thought crimes for having and expressing feelings. That first example in particular is just hilarious to me to call it manipulation, because it's just Erika expressing her anxiety and hoping her friends will validate her. Saying something to someone in hopes they'll reassure you or make you feel better is hardly "manipulation".
And both the other examples are Erika literally just being a good friend to Aya. The first was her expressing some wishful thinking, that Koto having seen Aya as a child would realize "oh she's a child and I'm an adult I guess this ain't really a thing I should pursue, huh?" because Erika frequently overestimates Koto lol. The second is, as Blastaar said, Erika telling Koto what Aya would want told to Koto: reassuring her that she's safe and okay. Because Koto's extremely anxious about Aya and would not handle it well if she was given more reason to worry about her.

To be clear: Erika HAS problems. I'm hardly calling her an "angel" as you've accused me before, lmao. Her problems just don't include being a bad friend to either Koto or Erika: Instead her flaws are about self-neglect, self-hatred, and overestimating Koto and Aya (mostly Koto). Erika's bad for herself, not her friends.

last edited at Nov 8, 2024 3:34PM

The only thing I'd reproach to Erika is that she doesn't seem to take Aya seriously, and even treats her like a stranger, like a troublesome child that's in the way of her relationship with Koto. She doesn't hinder her, but it's like she can't wait to be rid of her.

She lacks empathy. She notices Aya hides her pain behind a smile, but she doesn't really care and immediately thinks about how to exploit the opportunity. She comes off as calculative and cold, even though she's racked with guilt. She admits to herself that the breakup made her happy.

It's like the fact that Aya is a 14 year old without any family, who's struggling to survive after losing everything is totally abstract to her. It's like she never considered Aya as a friend, even in middle school. Only as an obstacle she can finally push aside and forget.

I can understand why people would dislike Erika. Ultimately, she's selfish and egocentric.

Not to say Koto isn't guilty of the same thing. They both come across as insincere. Only Aya has always been genuine with both of them, never trying to burden them with her problems.

Maybe it's the overall theme of the manga: becoming an adult means becoming more fake and selfish.

The only thing I'd reproach to Erika is that she doesn't seem to take Aya seriously, and even treats her like a stranger, like a troublesome child that's in the way of her relationship with Koto. She doesn't hinder her, but it's like she can't wait to be rid of her.

She lacks empathy. She notices Aya hides her pain behind a smile, but she doesn't really care and immediately thinks about how to exploit the opportunity. She comes off as calculative and cold, even though she's racked with guilt. She admits to herself that the breakup made her happy.

It's like the fact that Aya is a 14 year old without any family, who's struggling to survive after losing everything is totally abstract to her. It's like she never considered Aya as a friend, even in middle school. Only as an obstacle she can finally push aside and forget.

I can understand why people would dislike Erika. Ultimately, she's selfish and egocentric.

Not to say Koto isn't guilty of the same thing. They both come across as insincere. Only Aya has always been genuine with both of them, never trying to burden them with her problems.

Maybe it's the overall theme of the manga: becoming an adult means becoming more fake and selfish.

Nah, It's not like that.. Healthy, mentally grown up adult people are not like Erika, it's just her "rotten/immature" personality but she's like on an okay level because some people irl are much more worse. At least, she's not acting on it that much.

She's suck but it doesn't mean she never tried lol.

Gonna need examples of Erika trying to be manipulative.

①Chapter 1：
→"Well, anyway, we're going to be busy with the club. There's no need for us to be in love yet, right？"

Erika's trying to let the other two think it's a bad idea if they choose to date right now. But it was mainly said towards Koto. You can see Koto was feeling the pressure (next picture) because she knew Aya loved acting and always be the lead role of their drama club. Erika implied "you might disturb Aya if you ask her to go out" here.

However, it turned out Koto still can't help but confess. Erika is suck at manipulating people all due to her not knowing that person who she wants to manipulate pretty well (and never notice that fact). Koto has the most selfish character out of the trio. Normally, people who had been refused will be hesitant to confess again for fearing he/she might feel bothered, but Koto couldn't care less.

Compared to Aya, who successfully pushed Koto to do the script things while jokingly playing Koto around at the same time. Yes, Erika literally has no talent in this area.

②Chapter 3：
→"So, if your feelings died down and you move on…You have to make it clear to her, don't you think？"

Even that's the case, you don't have to say in this way. As their friends, "You have to figure out how you feels about her now" is far more appropriate in this situation. But of course l can get it, Erika loves Koto and wants to lead her to think she has no feelings towards Aya now. It's understandable.

③Chapter 16：
→"She's fine. It's even surprising."

That's the reply when Koto ask "How is Aya-chan？" Erika knows Aya is not really fine but still chose to say that. She wants Koto to move on so badly to the degree that she is disgusting me here. Erika thought Koto would be miraculously moving forward if she acknowledges Aya doesn't even feel any sorrow about their breakup (while it's not the truth lol). So we can see why she gets mad next page that Koto is still all about Aya as usual.

I have said it before and l am going to say it again. Holding an unrequited love that long is never a good thing. Ultimately, you will be hurting the people you love because you can't control yourself, to think you already cost too much on it.

Accepting someone might never loves you back is a maturity which should be marked with a red line.

None of that is manipulative lmao. You're accusing her of thought crimes for having and expressing feelings. That first example in particular is just hilarious to me to call it manipulation, because it's just Erika expressing her anxiety and hoping her friends will validate her. Saying something to someone in hopes they'll reassure you or make you feel better is hardly "manipulation".
And both the other examples are Erika literally just being a good friend to Aya. The first was her expressing some wishful thinking, that Koto having seen Aya as a child would realize "oh she's a child and I'm an adult I guess this ain't really a thing I should pursue, huh?" because Erika frequently overestimates Koto lol. The second is, as Blastaar said, Erika telling Koto what Aya would want told to Koto: reassuring her that she's safe and okay. Because Koto's extremely anxious about Aya and would not handle it well if she was given more reason to worry about her.

Well, that's because you don't know anything about Japan and their culture. The author and the characters in this manga are not Americans lol.

https://note.com/yuzuuudayo/n/n31522799dc47
This is the site which have analyzed this manga, and also have said about my example ①&② ( l believe she can't talk about ③ simply because chapter 16 hasn't come out yet when she had a analysis). You can see how a Japanese read Erika's action.
And this is the definition of manipulation from Cambridge Dictionary：controlling someone or something to your own advantage, often unfairly or dishonestly.
I think we can call Erika's behalf manipulative according to the definition, fairly.

To note：Blastaar can't even understand what l am trying to say in example ③. I don't know why you drag him here while his refutations are always not at the point. That's a reason l agreed it's wasting our time to have any discussion with him before (nearly 8 months ago).

To be clear: Erika HAS problems. I'm hardly calling her an "angel" as you've accused me before, lmao. Her problems just don't include being a bad friend to either Koto or Erika: Instead her flaws are about self-neglect, self-hatred, and overestimating Koto and Aya (mostly Koto).

But…you sure seem like denying Erika has anything to do with Aya's disappearance even though chapter 13 obviously shows that's not the case. I'm curious how you explain her self-hatred if not from the guilt of things she had done in the past.

Erika's bad for herself, not her friends.

That's pretty much see her as an innocent angel to me.

last edited at Nov 8, 2024 6:33PM

Well, that's because you don't know anything about Japan and their culture. The author and the characters in this manga are not Americans lol.

https://note.com/yuzuuudayo/n/n31522799dc47
This is the site which have analyzed this manga, and also have said about my example ①&② ( l believe she can't talk about ③ simply because chapter 16 hasn't come out yet when she had a analysis). You can see how a Japanese read Erika's action.
And this is the definition of manipulation from Cambridge Dictionary：controlling someone or something to your own advantage, often unfairly or dishonestly.
I think we can call Erika's behalf manipulative according to the definition, fairly.

Fascinating double header of appealing to authority here: first you find a Japanese reader who interpreted the character similar to you and act like it's some inherently Japanese thing that's completely alien to the mind of a westerner going on.... And then you cite the Cambridge Dictionary to define manipulation?? You know Cambridge isn't in Japan right?

Personally, I've yet to find an argument that "oh Japanese emotions and social relations are just completely different from us normal peop- uh I mean Americans" to be compelling. I've been reading manga for fifteen years now and have never seen an emotion or social dynamic that I haven't also seen in Western fiction. Mostly it just seems kind of implicitly racist to claim they're fundamentally different tbh. Japan was colonized by America and still has American military bases. They learn English in schools, watch and read translated American media, have a ton of loanwords from foreign languages, etc. I feel pretty confident in asserting there's a lot more cultural difference between you and I than the difference between us on average and modern Japanese culture.

Well, that's because you don't know anything about Japan and their culture. The author and the characters in this manga are not Americans lol.

https://note.com/yuzuuudayo/n/n31522799dc47
This is the site which have analyzed this manga, and also have said about my example ①&② ( l believe she can't talk about ③ simply because chapter 16 hasn't come out yet when she had a analysis). You can see how a Japanese read Erika's action.
And this is the definition of manipulation from Cambridge Dictionary：controlling someone or something to your own advantage, often unfairly or dishonestly.
I think we can call Erika's behalf manipulative according to the definition, fairly.

Fascinating double header of appealing to authority here: first you find a Japanese reader who interpreted the character similar to you and act like it's some inherently Japanese thing that's completely alien to the mind of a westerner going on.... And then you cite the Cambridge Dictionary to define manipulation?? You know Cambridge isn't in Japan right?

Yeah. My bad.

Personally, I've yet to find an argument that "oh Japanese emotions and social relations are just completely different from us normal peop- uh I mean Americans" to be compelling. I've been reading manga for fifteen years now and have never seen an emotion or social dynamic that I haven't also seen in Western fiction. Mostly it just seems kind of implicitly racist to claim they're fundamentally different tbh. Japan was colonized by America and still has American military bases. They learn English in schools, watch and read translated American media, have a ton of loanwords from foreign languages, etc. I feel pretty confident in asserting there's a lot more cultural difference between you and I than the difference between us on average and modern Japanese culture.

This is exactly why l said there's a big cultural difference between Americans and Japanese. Americans always say things they want in direct no hiding ways (which l prefer) while Japanese at the pretty opposite. I can be sure now you never learn japanese, nor have the experience of really talking with real Japanese (in japanese). All your impression of them is from the manga, which are all translated in english.

For easy example:
大丈夫です。
いいですよ。
This two sentences can both express yes and no, which you have to identify speaker's real intention yourself (fuck). You can't find a sentence in english has the meaning of consent and refusal. This is their 空気読む culture which you might never be able to understand.

last edited at Nov 8, 2024 9:36PM

What's the point of manipulating the truth to break them up

But she didn't! She told the truth of what can be directly observed: Aya is 'fine', energetic and pushing forward. "Aya hiding her pain" is Erika's own inference.

You can't find a sentence in english has the meaning of consent and refusal

Sure you can.

"Do you want ice cream?"
"I'm okay." or "It's okay." Very close to "ii desu yo" as a positive refusal.

So you're telling me Americans are never ambiguous, Japanese people always are, and it's impossible for translators to make a Japanese person make sense to an American when translating their dialog huh. What else can I say but lol.

(I had a close personal friend in college who came to America from Japan specifically to study sociology and we had a lot of great conversations on cultural differences and similarities, I learned a ton from her, but I don't really think I need to go citing anything rn lol)

What's the point of manipulating the truth to break them up

But she didn't! She told the truth of what can be directly observed: Aya is 'fine', energetic and pushing forward. "Aya hiding her pain" is Erika's own inference.

I never say Erika is trying to break them up here. What l am saying is Erika is trying to let Koto give up on Aya. Letting her know Aya doesn't even feel any sorrow about their breakup is a good way to let anyone give up.

You can't find a sentence in english has the meaning of consent and refusal

Sure you can.

"Do you want ice cream?"
"I'm okay." or "It's okay." Very close to "ii desu yo" as a positive refusal.

So…"I'm okay." or "It's okay." here can also mean
"l want an ice cream."？

last edited at Nov 9, 2024 1:57AM

So you're telling me Americans are never ambiguous, Japanese people always are,

Normally.

and it's impossible for translators to make a Japanese person make sense to an American when translating their dialog huh. What else can I say but lol.

Translators sometimes have to guess. But of course you can't understand.

(I had a close personal friend in college who came to America from Japan specifically to study sociology and we had a lot of great conversations on cultural differences and similarities, I learned a ton from her, but I don't really think I need to go citing anything rn lol)

Yeah. That's why l say you never talk with real Japanese in japanese (which l have a lot of experience). You have never truly in Japan's society to really get close to them. The only Japanese you have known is an international student, which can use your own word (act like it's some inherently Japanese thing).

I have to tell you. You said Erika is just expressing her anxiety and hoping her friends will validate her (example①). That's not the normal way Japanese will choose to do. That's Americans thinking. Thank god you can ask your Japanese friend now, l don't need to explain a lot.

What's the point of manipulating the truth to break them up

But she didn't! She told the truth of what can be directly observed: Aya is 'fine', energetic and pushing forward. "Aya hiding her pain" is Erika's own inference.

I never say Erika is trying to break them up here. What l am saying is Erika is trying to let Koto give up on Aya. Letting her know Aya doesn't even feel any sorrow about their breakup is a good way to let anyone give up.

You continue to distort what actually happens in the manga and to ignore the arguments that others here are making. Erika says nothing about whether Aya feels sorrow or not. She says, “She’s fine.” Aya has in fact given Erika no indication that she isn’t as “fine” as she appears to be, so for Erika to say otherwise to Koto would be stating an untruth.

The fundamental issue is that events are currently playing out basically the way that Erika wants them to go without the need for Erika to lie to anyone or for her to give bad advice to either Aya or Koto.

You argue that Erika’s actions make her manipulative and disgusting. Others disagree.

last edited at Nov 9, 2024 7:30AM

Blastaar posted:
Aya has in fact given Erika no indication that she isn’t as “fine” as she appears to be, so for Erika to say otherwise to Koto would be stating an untruth.

The thing is, Erika knows that Aya isn't fine. In the beginning of the last chapter, she recalls the time Aya was crying when Koto presented her as "the daughter of a relative" or something like that. She takes a guess that Aya isn't as fine as she pretends to be. She guesses that the breakup has left Aya in pain and distress.

While she doesn't lie to Koto, she omits to mention it. Lie by omission is a thing. By not mentioning it, she suggests to Koto that Aya, "surprisingly", wasn't much affected by the breakup.

So, while she doesn't lie, she still orients the flow in the way that'll advance her own agenda. I wouldn't call it "manipulation", but she clearly says (or doesn't say) what fits her goal, which is to peel Aya off of Koto, definitively.

Blastaar posted:
Aya has in fact given Erika no indication that she isn’t as “fine” as she appears to be, so for Erika to say otherwise to Koto would be stating an untruth.

The thing is, Erika knows that Aya isn't fine. In the beginning of the last chapter, she recalls the time Aya was crying when Koto presented her as "the daughter of a relative" or something like that. She takes a guess that Aya isn't as fine as she pretends to be. She guesses that the breakup has left Aya in pain and distress.

While she doesn't lie to Koto, she omits to mention it. Lie by omission is a thing. By not mentioning it, she suggests to Koto that Aya, "surprisingly", wasn't much affected by the breakup.

So, while she doesn't lie, she still orients the flow in the way that'll advance her own agenda. I wouldn't call it "manipulation", but she clearly says (or doesn't say) what fits her goal, which is to peel Aya off of Koto, definitively.

I don't think anybody's saying anything different, though--things are now going the way Erika wants them to, and she's not doing anything to change that. You do argue two slightly different things, though: that Erika "knows" how Aya really feels and that she "guesses" how she feels, and I think only the latter is the case. Aya is definitely acting as if she isn't deeply affected by the breakup.

As a hypothetical, what would be accomplished by Erika telling Koto something like, "Aya is acting brave and cheerful, but I'm sure she's hurting deep inside?" Would Aya and Koto be any closer to a reconciliation or would Koto be any more likely to change her toxic conception of what a romantic relationship with Aya should be like?

The thing is, Erika knows that Aya isn't fine. In the beginning of the last chapter, she recalls the time Aya was crying when Koto presented her as "the daughter of a relative" or something like that. She takes a guess that Aya isn't as fine as she pretends to be. She guesses that the breakup has left Aya in pain and distress.

'know' and 'guess' are not the same thing.

She lacks empathy. She notices Aya hides her pain behind a smile, but she doesn't really care and immediately thinks about how to exploit the opportunity. She comes off as calculative and cold, even though she's racked with guilt. She admits to herself that the breakup made her happy.

It's like the fact that Aya is a 14 year old without any family, who's struggling to survive after losing everything is totally abstract to her. It's like she never considered Aya as a friend, even in middle school. Only as an obstacle she can finally push aside and forget.

Not just Aya, I think the same could be applied to Koto too, Erika's love toward Koto is kind of weird. The idea of Aya coming back to give Koto false hope, then leave her again is incredibly cruel to Koto. Yet why would Erika want that to happen? Because to her, Koto's - the girl she supposed to love - well being is not as important as herself having her damn chance. I feel like to Erika, it's not about Koto, but herself and her chance to win Koto over.

I get that being selfish is very human or reality etc, but it's still bad and Erika feeling guilty about it is not undeserved at all.

last edited at Nov 11, 2024 12:16PM

Not just Aya, I think the same could be applied to Koto too, Erika's love toward Koto is kind of weird. The idea of Aya coming back to give Koto false hope, then leave her again is incredibly cruel to Koto. Yet why would Erika want that to happen? Because to her, Koto's - the girl she supposed to love - well being is not as important as herself having her damn chance. I feel like to Erika, it's not about Koto, but herself and her chance to win Koto over.

I get that being selfish is very human or reality etc, but it's still bad and Erika feeling guilty about it is not undeserved at all.

Erika was completely wrong about how Koto would react to Aya. She thought seeing Aya again would help to undo the trauma of her sudden disappearance, and then they could resolve their relationship and Koto could at long last get better and move on. Erika doesn't just want to date Koto, she wants to be happy with her, that's why she turned down Koto asking her out in the past.
It's true that Erika doesn't spend a lot of her internal monologue empathizing with others, probably because she's too distracted with beating herself up. She's alienated from people she views as better than herself, because she can't help but to focus on contrasting herself to them. This is why she so badly failed in her prediction of how Aya x Koto would go, despite her best efforts and best intentions. And that failure does seem to be inspiring some change in her, like noticing Aya'a emotions more than before.

Erika was completely wrong about how Koto would react to Aya. She thought seeing Aya again would help to undo the trauma of her sudden disappearance, and then they could resolve their relationship and Koto could at long last get better and move on.

For Koto to "move on", they must "break up" to begin with. When Erika hoped that Koto would see Aya again and move on, even though it wasn't mentioned exactly, we all understand what must come before that "move on" part, right?

Erika doesn't just want to date Koto, she wants to be happy with her, that's why she turned down Koto asking her out in the past.

Anyone with self respect would turn Koto down in that situation, not necessarily because of her happiness or anything. And in Erika's case, it was explained right after turning Koto down, that she didn't want to be the stand in for Aya.

This is why she so badly failed in her prediction of how Aya x Koto would go, despite her best efforts and best intentions.

How so? It's clearly stated in the manga that she predicted the relationship between Koto and Aya wouldn't work out and then later it went just as what she expected. It's worth to mention that Erika was happy when things between Koto and Aya went "failed in her prediction" like you said. It's not "How is Koto doing after this break up?", but "Finally it happened, now I will have my chance", only to be disappointed that it's still not the right time for her to jump in yet.

Also, I don't think that Erika has "best intentions". She has "bad intentions" but didn't act on it because it doesn't seem right to her. It was shown over and over again in the manga how she feels bad because of her bad intentions.

last edited at Nov 11, 2024 2:01PM

When Erika hoped that Koto would see Aya again and move on, even though it wasn't mentioned exactly, we all understand what must come before that "move on" part, right?

Well, no. Erika might have imagined that the 21 yo Koto would immediately "break up" with the 14 yo Aya on the grounds of being 21 and 14, rather than them going off to live together and try dating.

Well, no. Erika might have imagined that the 21 yo Koto would immediately "break up" with the 14 yo Aya on the grounds of being 21 and 14, rather than them going off to live together and try dating.

I don't think so, as when Aya asked if Koto still likes her, Erika was like "the feeling is as strong as ever". She surely expected that they would try dating, then see that things wouldn't work out and break up. I find it pretty hard to believe that she didn't even predict that Koto would be really really miserable over breaking up with Aya, unless she doesn't know any bit about Koto.

And don't forget that Erika's "hidden agenda" was revealed somewhere in chapter 7 or 8 - I don't remember exactly - and it's quite a while after the two started to date and live together.

last edited at Nov 11, 2024 2:26PM

Blastaar posted:
You do argue two slightly different things, though: that Erika "knows" how Aya really feels and that she "guesses" how she feels, and I think only the latter is the case. Aya is definitely acting as if she isn't deeply affected by the breakup.

To add my two cents as the translator, I used "most likely, Aya hides her sadness and pain behind a smile" as Erika's thought, but it's a choice.

Because the Japanese is きっと, which if you look at https://jisho.org/search/%E3%81%8D%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A8 means "surely; undoubtedly; almost certainly; most likely (e.g. 90 percent)".

I chose to translate it as the last one, to keep the bit of uncertainty, but it could have been "I'm sure Aya hides her sadness and pain behind a smile".

In short, there's very little doubt Erika is perfectly aware that Aya is in pain, and doesn't really care.

Not that she has to. Aya is her rival after all.

last edited at Nov 11, 2024 2:15PM

Blastaar posted:
You do argue two slightly different things, though: that Erika "knows" how Aya really feels and that she "guesses" how she feels, and I think only the latter is the case. Aya is definitely acting as if she isn't deeply affected by the breakup.

To add my two cents as the translator, I used "most likely, Aya hides her sadness and pain behind a smile" as Erika's thought, but it's a choice.

Because the Japanese is きっと, which if you look at https://jisho.org/search/%E3%81%8D%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A8 means "surely; undoubtedly; almost certainly; most likely (e.g. 90 percent)".

I chose to translate it as the last one, to keep the bit of uncertainty, but it could have been "I'm sure Aya hides her sadness and pain behind a smile".

In short, there's very little doubt Erika is perfectly aware that Aya is in pain, and doesn't really care.

I guess at this point it's close to beating a dead horse, but I don't think there's ever been any doubt that Erika believes or strongly suspects that Aya is in pain over the breakup with Koto--it's perfectly natural that she would be. But Aya is making a concerted effort to appear to Erika as if she's OK.

So would Erika be a better, more ethical person if she were to tell Koto that? Would that be a consolation to Koto? Would it make Koto think that there's a greater chance of getting Aya back under Koto's "stay locked in a room with me and pretend we're back in middle school" terms?

For that matter, would Erika in fact be a better friend to Aya if she were to tell Koto that "Aya acts like she's OK, but I think she's just pretending"?

last edited at Nov 11, 2024 5:25PM