“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human beings, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations.

Lol. No, actually these are fictional constructs simulating human behavior using narrative conventions.

It can be really important to know the difference.

Right, right, I admit I worded that part wrong. I mean that even a character should be flawed, at least in personality. A perfect character would just be boring.

Seriously, how many f***king times does it have to be said--most of the negative views of this story are not about hating human beings, imaginary or otherwise. They're criticizing the way this character has been used in this story. (The details of that critique have been analyzed at excruciating length in this forum thread.)

Sure, some commenters are so sick of Shiho's angsty bullshit dominating the story that they've expressed their exasperation by wishing that something bad would happen to the character--the way that when people on the internet say, "X should DIAF!" they're not literally homicidal arsonists.

Shiho having negative traits is not the issue--some of the best characters in manga have serious flaws. Shiho in isolation may even be considered "well-written" by people who enjoy watching (or who "relate to") her emotional shenanigans and who don't care what her disproportionate presence has done to the overall story. That's not everybody, however.

I see what you’re saying. Frankly, you do you. I’d rather not spend hours arguing on a manga forum.

Too many people are here overreacting over a fictional character. She’s not a mass murderer, lol.

she hasnt murdered a person but she certainly has murdered our expectations for the manga.

Who is this “our” because it certainly isn’t the non-salty part of the fandom.

the ”our” in my response refers to anyone who prefers solid writing instead of whatever you call the faulty narrative surrounding shiho as a character.

-from the salt monarch moglius

“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human beings, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations. Not yours, not mine, not anyone’s.

But that doesn’t make one’s writing “faulty” it makes it different.

I honestly feel that Shino may be the most well-written character of her style in any manga I’ve read. Though, I haven’t read every single manga.

Why do I think she’s the best written?

She shows flaws. Not comical flaws, not flaws that don’t affect her, but REAL flaws. Like anxiety, pressure, possibly even autism or bpd. Calling a character faulty just because they don’t live up to whatever you wanted in the first place isn’t gonna change anything. What do you expect? Eku to give you the pen and let you write?

This is a passion project. Eku WANTED to write this, and they did. If you don’t like it, then don’t read it. You’re only giving it more fame by continuing to complain.

first of all,these are not human beings at all,these are in fact characters in a story written by a human being.

second of all,humans are flawed which is what makes us human,where upon story characters that are flawed makes them badly written characters.

third and last,i expect every author who picks up the pen to do so with conviction and confidence to portray their image and convey their passion through at the least solid writing and at best great writing.

end note.
the reality is that shiho is a badly written character whether you or anyone else wants to admit this or not is irrelevant to this fact of truth.this was never about feelings or emotions it was always centered around the proof of evidence found within the text of the story itself and how it reflects upon the overall quality of its narrative.

-from the salt monarch of the sodium kingdom moglius

Well, whether fictional humans or not, they’re still flawed.

When story characters are flawed that makes them badly written characters? I’d like you to elaborate on that, do you mean their personality, or how they’re written? /gen

characters are fictional constructs written to simulate human behavior so a flawed character is by definition a fictional construct which fails to simulate said human behavior.

-from the salt monarch of the sodium kingdom moglius

Human behavior is flawed, though. So if a flawed character is-well-flawed, then wouldn’t that make them not a failure? To be human is to be flawed. A human character, especially in a realistic setting, should demonstrate that.

Again, I can’t quite see if you mean writing or personality. Or both.

i mean specifically that a character is to be expected to have flaws since human behavior itself is flawed and that a flawed character is flawed only due to the authors failure to write the character as flawed.

-from the salt monarch of the sodium kingdom moglius

Preferences are subjective, but how can anyone say that Shiho is a bad/poorly written character? Whoever claims that is simply blinded by their hatred. She ticks all the boxes:

• Has a backstory, which allows us to understand what she has been through (not only all the self-imposed pressures we always talk about, but also the death of one of the most important people for her, Kyou, at a very young age, which many people here seem to forget) and that have led her to be the way she currently is.

• She has both very marked strengths and weaknesses (and that leaves room for personal growth and development, which is very important).

• She is, and no one can deny it, consistent, both with her words and with her actions. We all know, to a greater or lesser extent, what to expect from Shiho. Her personality does not change based on what is necessary for the story to progress.

• Personal goals. Objectives. Motivations. As I said here before, she is the main plot device that drives the manga, for better or worse.

• She is the character that feels most human out of everyone. Why? Because all of the above.

If you don't agree with what I've written, who do you think is a better written character than her? What would the manga even be about at this point if she didn't exist? It maybe be over by now.

As I said here before, she is the main plot device that drives the manga, for better or worse.

That would be “worse.”

WTF does “driving the manga” have to do with the character being “well written”? That simply describes what her presence has done to the plot; it has nothing whatsoever to do with literary quality.

You have shown yourself to be utterly unable to distinguish between “liking the character and being interested in what she does” on the one hand and basic standards of narrative craftsmanship on the other.

Repeating the juvenile canard that people who criticize this story simply hate the imaginary simulacrum of a human being labeled “Shiho” amply demonstrates that you have ignored, or simply failed to comprehend, what the other side has been arguing, at length, and with extensive reference to textual evidence.

last edited at Mar 25, 2023 1:47AM

What would the manga even be about at this point if she didn't exist?

About the main characters and the way they tackled their first relation together ? It can also be an interesting subject.

it has nothing whatsoever to do with literary quality.

I never mentioned literary quality in my post, I just tried to explain why she's a well written character in my opinion.

You have shown yourself to be utterly unable to distinguish between “liking the character and being interested in what she does” on the one hand and basic standards of narrative craftsmanship on the other.

Answer the question then: Who is a better written character than Shiho in the story and why? If you can't think of any, then the fact that you come back every month to continue reading the series can only be described as Stockholm Syndrome.

it has nothing whatsoever to do with literary quality.

I never mentioned literary quality in my post, I just tried to explain why she's a well written character in my opinion.

I can’t believe that I need to state that the evaluative term “well-written” makes an implicit positive claim about the story’s literary quality.

You have shown yourself to be utterly unable to distinguish between “liking the character and being interested in what she does” on the one hand and basic standards of narrative craftsmanship on the other.

Answer the question then: Who is a better written character than Shiho in the story and why? If you can't think of any, then the fact that you come back every month to continue reading the series can only be described as Stockholm Syndrome.

This is a completely foolish assertion. “If you don’t like everything about this story, why don’t you just stop reading?” always is a nonsensical question, because it assumes that reading is always and only about taking some kind of emotional pleasure in the actions of simulated people. (Even your invocation of the term “Stockholm Syndrome” indicates your inability to conceive of reading a story as anything except vicarious engagement with imaginary people.)

As has been stated previously in this comment thread, there are many reasons a person might continue to read a story besides being enamored of a particular character who has come to dominate the story or deciding that one or another character is “better written” than that other character.

The simplest and most obvious reason is having started reading the story, they want to know how it finally comes out, even if (for example) they think that shifting the story’s focus to the emotional angst of a narcissist without integrating that arc into the established themes and tone of the rest of the story was a misstep by the author.

last edited at Mar 25, 2023 8:56AM

This is a completely foolish assertion. “If you don’t like everything about this story, why don’t you just stop reading?” always is a nonsensical question.

there are many reasons a person might continue to read a story besides being enamored of a particular character who has come to dominate the story

You really like doing that, don't you? Extreme statements like those ones to go off on a tangent instead of answering a simple question that never implied what you are saying.

"Just give me more of Himari’s journey to becoming a thirsty little lesbian".

I get the impression you never gave a fuck about "literary quality" until Shiho started to appear more frequently in the story.

This is a completely foolish assertion. “If you don’t like everything about this story, why don’t you just stop reading?” always is a nonsensical question.

there are many reasons a person might continue to read a story besides being enamored of a particular character who has come to dominate the story

You really like doing that, don't you? Extreme statements like those ones to go off on a tangent instead of answering a simple question that never implied what you are saying.

"Just give me more of Himari’s journey to becoming a thirsty little lesbian".

I get the impression you never gave a fuck about "literary quality" until Shiho started to appear more frequently in the story.

You can stop all the projecting now—it’s getting pretty tiresome: “You hate Shiho,” “you have Stockholm Syndrome,” “you don’t really care about literary quality.”

My comment about Himari was by no means a statement about all I wanted out of the story—it was a way of saying, “Please, get us out of this interminable Shiho angst stuff and get back to something that makes more sense with the rest of the story.”

The challenge “if you can’t name a better-written character in the story than Shiho, that means that Shiho is well-written” falls into the “not even wrong” category—it basically makes no sense at all. Of course I’m not going to answer something like that.

last edited at Mar 25, 2023 11:50AM

The challenge “if you can’t name a better-written character in the story than Shiho, that means that Shiho is well-written”

No, it means "then all the other characters you enjoyed so much reading about are even worse written characters".

The challenge “if you can’t name a better-written character in the story than Shiho, that means that Shiho is well-written”

No, it means "then all the other characters you enjoyed so much reading about are even worse written characters".

This will be my last entry in this increasingly surreal exchange:

My premise has been that in order to be called “well-written,” a character must fit effectively into the story as a whole, and can not be considered “well written” in isolation from their function in the overall story.

A character can be “enjoyable,” “relatable,” “multi-dimensional,” “realistic,” or “fascinating,” they can remind readers of themselves or of other people in their lives, they may add spice to what some readers consider to be a vanilla story, etc., etc., etc. Some readers may even consider them to be the best thing in the story.

But, despite all the positive qualities some readers may perceive in that character, if they throw off the established tone of the story, if they displace the protagonists to the sideline, if a disproportionate amount of the story is devoted to explaining who the character is and why they do the things they do, and if the explanations put forth for that character’s behavior seem less than convincing to many readers, then by the standards by which I have understood the term “well written” during the decades I have devoted to analyzing how stories work, that character does not qualify as “well-written.”

The only people mad at this manga are here, like suddenly all the things than happens in the story are worth of “bashing critical analysis ”, have some shame? We are reading this for free, we are stealing from a person who is probably their only income of work and u have the balls to trash on their ideas as if u are supporting them? Like yeah it's gets funny when people gets mad at Shiho for being the most real teenager in the manga (annoying af) but then u trash in the author's work as if they are making the worst maga ever. If you don't like this go and read something else if this isn't for you and let the people who enjoys to enjoy and read and talk about it. U are so annoying, this is not twitter, we are here to enjoy manga.

The only people mad at this manga are here, like suddenly all the things than happens in the story are worth of “bashing critical analysis ”, have some shame? We are reading this for free, we are stealing from a person who is probably their only income of work and u have the balls to trash on their ideas as if u are supporting them? Like yeah it's gets funny when people gets mad at Shiho for being the most real teenager in the manga (annoying af) but then u trash in the author's work as if they are making the worst maga ever. If you don't like this go and read something else if this isn't for you and let the people who enjoys to enjoy and read and talk about it. U are so annoying, this is not twitter, we are here to enjoy manga.

this is a discussion thread where everyone with an account is allowed to post their thoughts about the story they have consumed so whether you find this to be annoying is irrelevant to this action.

also please get your arrogance in check as you can control only your own actions dont presume that you can control what another does just because you feel someway about their actions.

by the way enjoyment is subjective meaning it comes in many flavours who are you to decide how someone enjoys this work of art and how they express it.

The only people mad at this manga are here, like suddenly all the things than happens in the story are worth of “bashing critical analysis ”, have some shame? We are reading this for free, we are stealing from a person who is probably their only income of work and u have the balls to trash on their ideas as if u are supporting them? Like yeah it's gets funny when people gets mad at Shiho for being the most real teenager in the manga (annoying af) but then u trash in the author's work as if they are making the worst maga ever. If you don't like this go and read something else if this isn't for you and let the people who enjoys to enjoy and read and talk about it. U are so annoying, this is not twitter, we are here to enjoy manga.

this is a discussion thread where everyone with an account is allowed to post their thoughts about the story they have consumed so whether you find this to be annoying is irrelevant to this action.

also please get your arrogance in check as you can control only your own actions dont presume that you can control what another does just because you feel someway about their actions.

by the way enjoyment is subjective meaning it comes in many flavours who are you to decide how someone enjoys this work of art and how they express it

I'm not telling you how to enjoy it or to control you lol, I'm just saying that this comment section/forum in particular for this manga in this site are annoying af and have in high steem? Your criticism, no even opinions, but your criticism. They're like 3 good people giving clever remarks and trying to understand the characters and the author's work, then it's full of people being annoying and not even liking the manga? Like ok I guess

I'm not telling you how to enjoy it or to control you lol, I'm just saying that this comment section/forum in particular for this manga in this site are annoying af

Your emotional state is noted. Thank you for sharing how you’re feeling inside.

Damn, what a bittersweet ending. I hope Shiho's group wins now

All this drama just because Shiho won't stop being petty

I left and came back and wow. Arguments did get pretty aggressive. I'm steering clear of that, still. BTW is this a repost or am I losing my mind? Maybe I read it somewhere else?

Edit: NVM somehow this showed up as a new release for me just now. But it's fixed now.

last edited at Apr 17, 2023 10:49AM

anyone knows when the next chapter will be up?

ch41 up on Mangadex

angry commenters captured Shiho and now she's disappeared and probably dead

last edited at Apr 23, 2023 8:35AM

ch41 up on Mangadex

angry commenters captured Shiho and now she's disappeared and probably dead

Haha. They wish. Another round of the same comments, probably. Honestly though she's likely on the rooftop, the place people go to disappear in these things (or maybe somewhere playing music?) I'll wait until it's up here before saying anything more.

last edited at Apr 23, 2023 7:21AM

I don't know if it was stated before, but I certainly didn't expect SS's performance to be the next day. I'm glad, because thanks to that Aki had time to refresh her head a bit. Otherwise it could have ended pretty bad for them. I wonder what was that Aki realized about her feelings.

People will start complaining about the last page, which I understand, but it obviously won't be anything serious at all. The author just wanted to end the chapter with a cliffhanger.

last edited at Apr 23, 2023 8:29AM

Calling it now—10 bucks says that whoever finds Shiho in her Den of Mope says a version of, “I knew I’d find you here.”

I don't know if it was stated before, but I certainly didn't expect SS's performance to be the next day. I'm glad, because thanks to that Aki had time to refresh her head a bit. Otherwise it could have ended pretty bad for them. I wonder what was that Aki realized about her feelings.

People will start complaining about the last page, which I understand, but it obviously won't be anything serious at all. The author just wanted to end the chapter with a cliffhanger.

I'm assuming she realized that she'd settled her feelings with that hand touch. She no longer has her crush and probably hasn't had it for some time. She'll try to communicate that to Shiho with her song. She seems to want reconciliation but, as per her conversation with Shiho, Aki doesn't want to reconcile while still pinning for someone else.

As for the last page, yeah. Aki is writing a song seemingly targeted at Shiho. Having Shiho disappear (or appear to disappear) is likely an attempt to reinforce the intent of the coming song (since the song will be meaningless to Aki if Shiho can't hear it and I'm sure Aki will say that) and also to show that Shiho actually hasn't gotten over Aki (even though she implied it last chapter). They need to show that there's still a possibility of Shiho's accepting the song (and therefore, Aki); so having her still unsure and tormented will help with that. Just setting the stage, I'm sure.

Also is it just me or does this site seemingly go down every couple of minutes? I have to refresh quite a bit sometimes.

last edited at Apr 23, 2023 9:12AM

Calling it now—10 bucks says that whoever finds Shiho in her Den of Mope says a version of, “I knew I’d find you here.”

Or she just went into the bathroom and the dumb friend didn't even bother to look in there. Oh well, another forced drama.