i’m just gonna try to ignore the whole shiho argument.

welcome to the club

We have a club now? Joined!

what should we call it?

i’m just gonna try to ignore the whole shiho argument.
on another note, my curious ass brain really needs to know how kyou died. how it happened matters a lot.

This is hilarious, insofar as reversing responsibility and blaming the wrong person can be hilarious.

The more I think about it, it does seem that Shiho has something like an incel mindset. She had feelings for Aki. Aki was treating her normally, and Shiho felt that she was entitled to more. It seems that in the author's mind, Aki was in the wrong for not giving Shiho what she thought she deserved.

do you even know what an incel is???

So many mindreaders here with the ability to explain away the most basic everyday details like when you quit your job (and being in a band is indeed a job), you don’t have that job anymore.

Dude, they are in high school. Clam down.

Good job—when a copout for shitty writing like “they’re in high school” works, you might as well mash that button every time.

I guess I’ll just have to clam down.

my brother in christ they’re hormonal teenagers, they fuck up all the time. look at me, i’m a teenager, i fuck up all the time. not to mention the fact that adults fuck up all the time, it’s no reason to get so pressed. AND NO SHIT SHIHO HAS DONE STUFF WRONG WE GET IT WE’RE NOT SAYING THAT IT’S OKAY. but you’ve gotta cut some fucking slack on teenagers good lird.

Now into more productive discussions, does anybody noticed that a lot of popular woman targeted media seem to incorporate some form of the "I can change him/her with my love" trope and/or the "deep down she /he is a nice person". It sees to be a constant across all types of media western or eastern, like 50 shades of gray, twilight, kaicho wa maid, citrus, sasakoi, a lot of yaoi/yuri fanfics and long list of etc.
It was just recently that shoujo decided to take a more wholesome approach to romance ie sonó bisque doll, shikimori is not just cute, tonikaku kawaii, the dangers in my heart etc

just say they…

Huh? Do we live in a world where it is okay to grab someone else by the collar and yell at them for expressing their opinion? No, that's not okay in any way. Shiho was emotionally and physically abusive to Aki, and never apologizes for it.

It's honestly kind of shocking that a story about same-sex romance will push the theme that someone else is allowed to judge you for falling in love with one person rather than another, and be correct in the end.

But... But... Aki hurt shiho by not reading her mind, she was oh so hurt, It wasn't her fault.
How aki dares to love yori s singing without shiho permission, she clearly deserve it

At this point you shouldn't bother to reply to this type of post, just as mei shiho is incapable of doing anything wrong in some people's eyes, all of her action are either other people's fault or out of her control and she shouldn't be held accountable for anything she does cuz feelings always justify ones actions

well… depending on the person mentality and/or emotions can justify certain actions. especially mentality.
also, i haven’t seen a single person say shiho is perfect.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 12:48AM

“shiho is soooo annoying”
oh so you’re lying? oh so you’re a fucking liar? oh so you’re allergic to joy, magic, and fun? /ref

Haven't been here for a while and now everybody likes Shiho. I don't feel special anymore.

nah barely anybody likes shiho it’s actually kinda crazy

Okay, but I mean aki does deserve better.

And at the same time. Shiho did blackmail, gaslight, extort and tantrum her way to a gf

when tf did she blackmail or gaslight

What are you talking about? In Chapter 20 all that Shiho wanted was for Aki to admit that she was a better singer/performer than Yori. And in Chapter 21 she grabs Aki by the collar after hearing her say that she "loves Yori's singing and that that opinion will never change".

Huh? Do we live in a world where it is okay to grab someone else by the collar and yell at them for expressing their opinion? No, that's not okay in any way. Shiho was emotionally and physically abusive to Aki, and never apologizes for it.

It's honestly kind of shocking that a story about same-sex romance will push the theme that someone else is allowed to judge you for falling in love with one person rather than another, and be correct in the end.

i’m sorry but are we just forgetting the fact that aki literally slapped shiho as hard as she could for saying she wanted to quit the band…? don’t get me wrong, i love aki, but she’s done shitty things too.
also, coming from somebody who’s actually experienced emotional abuse irl, don’t say this kind of stuff. it’s not okay to call somebody who throughout the entire manga has literally been trying so hard to just stay away from aki and when confronted by aki multiple times after wanting her t9 go away snapping a bit. that’s not emotional abuse. that’s not emotional abuse at all.
and when you bring up the collar grab, that’s not physical abuse… not even close. even slapping or hitting somebody once isn’t physical abuse, abuse in general is repetitive.
it feels quite a bit invalidating to call such petty things like that physical and emotional abuse. hope this helps <3.

last edited at Jul 22, 2023 5:36PM

Huh? Do we live in a world where it is okay to grab someone else by the collar and yell at them for expressing their opinion? No, that's not okay in any way. Shiho was emotionally and physically abusive to Aki, and never apologizes for it.

Of course it's not okay. I was just describing what triggered that reaction: Aki (unintentionally and unknowingly) rubbed salt to the wound in the worst way possible.

And Shiho is a controversial enough character as it is for you to make things up: She never "demanded Aki to renounce her own band and friends", and the only "insult" she said was stating that she was a better singer than Yori (this is canonically true), which was you original comment. What did happen was Aki slapping Shiho in the face when she left the band.

this is so real though. she did physically slap shiho

i feel like the majority of shiho haters are huge examples of people criticizing things they don’t understand. some of them have some sense and reason behind their hate, but others just seem to act like all shiho has done is hurt people. which isn’t true at all.
shiho has brought people together, if she hadn’t quit the band there’s a big chance himari and yori would’ve never met. people seem to only focus on the things she’s done wrong, and seem to forget the good things she’s done.
she’s a character that has reasons to be criticized, but all characters do. and don’t get me wrong, she has made mistakes.
imo she’s one of the best written characters in this manga. she clearly has abandonment issues, a friend of hers died, she’s been thrown away by many bands before. she’s lost so much, taken so many hits, she’s realistic.
and there’s 100% a reason why she seems so obsessed with being the best. again, she’s lost so much, ofc there’s something she wants to “win” or hold on to. and that’s music.
i don’t think aki and shiho would be a toxic relationship. aki seems to understand shiho much more than the others… besides himari. she’s one of the only people who’s taken the time to form some kind of relationship with shiho, or some kind of understanding of with her, even if it had its problems. (i wish some fans would try this too…)
anyway, there’s my little rant.

i think that this (and the next chapter or 2) will probably end this whole arc. and hopefully we’lll be able to see more of the other characters again. don’t get me wrong, i LOVE shiho, but she has admittedly taken up about 3 years of this manga, and we do need a break. i’m hoping we’ll be able to see her and aki developing more in the background. even if they don’t end up together, i’m hoping for them to at least cut ties and become friendly again.

My brain: No more Shiho for a while after this Arc. Other characters need to be in the spotlight to refresh the manga.

My heart: More Shiho please.

real

Shiho haters keep crying
BASED

i think that this (and the next chapter or 2) will probably end this whole arc. and hopefully we’lll be able to see more of the other characters again. don’t get me wrong, i LOVE shiho, but she has admittedly taken up about 3 years of this manga, and we do need a break. i’m hoping we’ll be able to see her and aki developing more in the background. even if they don’t end up together, i’m hoping for them to at least cut ties and become friendly again.

“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human beings, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations.

Lol. No, actually these are fictional constructs simulating human behavior using narrative conventions.

It can be really important to know the difference.

Right, right, I admit I worded that part wrong. I mean that even a character should be flawed, at least in personality. A perfect character would just be boring.

Seriously, how many f***king times does it have to be said--most of the negative views of this story are not about hating human beings, imaginary or otherwise. They're criticizing the way this character has been used in this story. (The details of that critique have been analyzed at excruciating length in this forum thread.)

Sure, some commenters are so sick of Shiho's angsty bullshit dominating the story that they've expressed their exasperation by wishing that something bad would happen to the character--the way that when people on the internet say, "X should DIAF!" they're not literally homicidal arsonists.

Shiho having negative traits is not the issue--some of the best characters in manga have serious flaws. Shiho in isolation may even be considered "well-written" by people who enjoy watching (or who "relate to") her emotional shenanigans and who don't care what her disproportionate presence has done to the overall story. That's not everybody, however.

I see what you’re saying. Frankly, you do you. I’d rather not spend hours arguing on a manga forum.

Too many people are here overreacting over a fictional character. She’s not a mass murderer, lol.

she hasnt murdered a person but she certainly has murdered our expectations for the manga.

Who is this “our” because it certainly isn’t the non-salty part of the fandom.

the ”our” in my response refers to anyone who prefers solid writing instead of whatever you call the faulty narrative surrounding shiho as a character.

-from the salt monarch moglius

“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human beings, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations. Not yours, not mine, not anyone’s.

But that doesn’t make one’s writing “faulty” it makes it different.

I honestly feel that Shino may be the most well-written character of her style in any manga I’ve read. Though, I haven’t read every single manga.

Why do I think she’s the best written?

She shows flaws. Not comical flaws, not flaws that don’t affect her, but REAL flaws. Like anxiety, pressure, possibly even autism or bpd. Calling a character faulty just because they don’t live up to whatever you wanted in the first place isn’t gonna change anything. What do you expect? Eku to give you the pen and let you write?

This is a passion project. Eku WANTED to write this, and they did. If you don’t like it, then don’t read it. You’re only giving it more fame by continuing to complain.

first of all,these are not human beings at all,these are in fact characters in a story written by a human being.

second of all,humans are flawed which is what makes us human,where upon story characters that are flawed makes them badly written characters.

third and last,i expect every author who picks up the pen to do so with conviction and confidence to portray their image and convey their passion through at the least solid writing and at best great writing.

end note.
the reality is that shiho is a badly written character whether you or anyone else wants to admit this or not is irrelevant to this fact of truth.this was never about feelings or emotions it was always centered around the proof of evidence found within the text of the story itself and how it reflects upon the overall quality of its narrative.

-from the salt monarch of the sodium kingdom moglius

Well, whether fictional humans or not, they’re still flawed.

When story characters are flawed that makes them badly written characters? I’d like you to elaborate on that, do you mean their personality, or how they’re written? /gen

characters are fictional constructs written to simulate human behavior so a flawed character is by definition a fictional construct which fails to simulate said human behavior.

-from the salt monarch of the sodium kingdom moglius

Human behavior is flawed, though. So if a flawed character is-well-flawed, then wouldn’t that make them not a failure? To be human is to be flawed. A human character, especially in a realistic setting, should demonstrate that.

Again, I can’t quite see if you mean writing or personality. Or both.

Funny how the "salty"/ "toxic" people that hate shiho are just trying to discuss the structure of the story, nuance of the characters, craftsmanship of the author, etc. While the ones defending it are the ones that started with the snarky comments and straight up strawman
I guess looking critically at a Manga and enjoy talking about it is "toxic" behavior and people should just enjoy it as it is or zip it

I personally don’t care whether you like it or not, as a writer and reader it’s good to get both parts of the story. But there’s a border between being critical, and giving feedback, and just being rude. Not that you have, I in fact enjoy reading your posts and find it nice to see other opinions.

What do you people even gain from sending death threats to a fictional character?

I get paid 100$ per post

Damn, might as well go buy yourself a mansion.

“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human beings, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations.

Lol. No, actually these are fictional constructs simulating human behavior using narrative conventions.

It can be really important to know the difference.

Right, right, I admit I worded that part wrong. I mean that even a character should be flawed, at least in personality. A perfect character would just be boring.

Too many people are here overreacting over a fictional character. She’s not a mass murderer, lol.

she hasnt murdered a person but she certainly has murdered our expectations for the manga.

Who is this “our” because it certainly isn’t the non-salty part of the fandom.

the ”our” in my response refers to anyone who prefers solid writing instead of whatever you call the faulty narrative surrounding shiho as a character.

-from the salt monarch moglius

“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human beings, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations. Not yours, not mine, not anyone’s.

But that doesn’t make one’s writing “faulty” it makes it different.

I honestly feel that Shino may be the most well-written character of her style in any manga I’ve read. Though, I haven’t read every single manga.

Why do I think she’s the best written?

She shows flaws. Not comical flaws, not flaws that don’t affect her, but REAL flaws. Like anxiety, pressure, possibly even autism or bpd. Calling a character faulty just because they don’t live up to whatever you wanted in the first place isn’t gonna change anything. What do you expect? Eku to give you the pen and let you write?

This is a passion project. Eku WANTED to write this, and they did. If you don’t like it, then don’t read it. You’re only giving it more fame by continuing to complain.

first of all,these are not human beings at all,these are in fact characters in a story written by a human being.

second of all,humans are flawed which is what makes us human,where upon story characters that are flawed makes them badly written characters.

third and last,i expect every author who picks up the pen to do so with conviction and confidence to portray their image and convey their passion through at the least solid writing and at best great writing.

end note.
the reality is that shiho is a badly written character whether you or anyone else wants to admit this or not is irrelevant to this fact of truth.this was never about feelings or emotions it was always centered around the proof of evidence found within the text of the story itself and how it reflects upon the overall quality of its narrative.

-from the salt monarch of the sodium kingdom moglius

Well, whether fictional humans or not, they’re still flawed.

When story characters are flawed that makes them badly written characters? I’d like you to elaborate on that, do you mean their personality, or how they’re written? /gen

What do you people even gain from sending death threats to a fictional character?

Too many people are here overreacting over a fictional character. She’s not a mass murderer, lol.

she hasnt murdered a person but she certainly has murdered our expectations for the manga.

Who is this “our” because it certainly isn’t the non-salty part of the fandom.

the ”our” in my response refers to anyone who prefers solid writing instead of whatever you call the faulty narrative surrounding shiho as a character.

-from the salt monarch moglius

“Faulty”
Is it faulty to be a human being with emotions? Is it faulty to be scared? Is it faulty to be anxious?

These are human characters, they’re not ever gonna live up to everybody’s expectations. Not yours, not mine, not anyone’s.

But that doesn’t make one’s writing “faulty” it makes it different.

I honestly feel that Shino may be the most well-written character of her style in any manga I’ve read. Though, I haven’t read every single manga.

Why do I think she’s the best written?

She shows flaws. Not comical flaws, not flaws that don’t affect her, but REAL flaws. Like anxiety, pressure, possibly even autism or bpd. Calling a character faulty just because they don’t live up to whatever you wanted in the first place isn’t gonna change anything. What do you expect? Eku to give you the pen and let you write?

This is a passion project. Eku WANTED to write this, and they did. If you don’t like it, then don’t read it. You’re only giving it more fame by continuing to complain.

last edited at Mar 23, 2023 9:34PM

I haven't read this one since that shiho girl appeared. I just enter from time to time when it gets an update to laugh at the comments lol.

Shit here is crazy

A thought.

All of the build up to the battle of the bands was under an assumption that “our team” needed to win in order to help Aki and Shiho work things out.

On the other hand, the author could throw a total curveball and have Shiho still WIN the battle… except only after she essentially lost it. They could even argue that she only “won” (performed as well as she did) because she finally came to terms with how she feels.

This could in turn be used as a launch pad for our main couple again, should the author want to go there.

That’s not quite what I expect and like I mentioned before I think the negativity towards this arc is silly, but it is something that I see as a possibility.

I completely agree. I feel that is Shino wins, we’ll have a chance to see our main couple again, but still have the possibility for Shino and Aki to at least come to terms and be friends again. It hurts to see two of my favorite characters pinned against each other, but alas, love isn’t easy.